Current Events > Rabbi: Never again means nothing if Holocaust analogies are always off limits

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/06/19/never-again-means-nothing-if-holocaust-analogies-are-always-off-limits/
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She's right, though.
Everyone just likes to overreact and freak the hell out anymore.

Questionmarktarius posted...

He's right.

smh
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There's nothing wrong with Holocaust or Nazi analogies if they fit. The problem is casually using analogies like that to describe things not even remotely comparable. If you wanted to use a WW2 analogy internment camps would be a far better analogy but even that isn't perfect since the people forced into WW2 internment camps weren't committing crimes. As opposed to illegal immigrants, who are literally criminals.

Grischnak posted...

There's nothing wrong with Holocaust or Nazi analogies if they fit. The problem is casually using analogies like that to describe things not even remotely comparable. If you wanted to use a WW2 analogy internment camps would be a far better analogy but even that isn't perfect since the people forced into WW2 internment camps weren't committing crimes. As opposed to illegal immigrants, who are literally criminals.

Theyre still concentration camps.

She didnt say Nazi concentration camps. She didnt say death camps.
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It's not illegal to seek asylum.
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ledbowman posted...

It's not illegal to seek asylum.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Grischnak posted...

There's nothing wrong with Holocaust or Nazi analogies if they fit. The problem is casually using analogies like that to describe things not even remotely comparable. If you wanted to use a WW2 analogy internment camps would be a far better analogy but even that isn't perfect since the people forced into WW2 internment camps weren't committing crimes. As opposed to illegal immigrants, who are literally criminals.

Theyre still concentration camps.

She didnt say Nazi concentration camps. She didnt say death camps.

This topic is literally about Holocaust analogies bro so I don't know what the fuck you're arguing.

USB-C posted...

Godwin's law was bullshit arguing for over 70 years and it's bullshit arguing now

"Chris, I think they're concentration camps. Keep in mind that one of their functions *by design* is to punish those individuals and families who are detained. So even the "charged" term is appropriate."

-- Mike Godwin
https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/status/1141125878874877953?s=19
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Grischnak posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Grischnak posted...

There's nothing wrong with Holocaust or Nazi analogies if they fit. The problem is casually using analogies like that to describe things not even remotely comparable. If you wanted to use a WW2 analogy internment camps would be a far better analogy but even that isn't perfect since the people forced into WW2 internment camps weren't committing crimes. As opposed to illegal immigrants, who are literally criminals.

Theyre still concentration camps.

She didnt say Nazi concentration camps. She didnt say death camps.

This topic is literally about Holocaust analogies bro so I don't know what the fuck you're arguing.

Wait idk why I deleted my post. I skimmed the article real quick thinking I missed something, but the article is about people getting butthurt about AOCs comments.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Wait idk why I deleted my post. I skimmed the article real quick thinking I missed something, but the article is about people getting butthurt about AOCs comments.

You want to argue that AOC wasn't comparing it to Holcaust? Ok. Fine. That's not what this topic is about. Whoever wrote that article is sure as shit comparing it to the Holocaust and that is what my post is about.

USB-C posted...

I like how every word is allowed to change meanings except for concentration camps. That will always be the original definition for the rest of time no matter how many jewish people get offended.

Fucking hypocritical anti semitic bullshit as usual

Are you calling a rabbi anti-semitic?

I'm trying to parse your post.
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https://www.huffpost.com/entry/four-severely-ill-migrant-babies-hospitalized-after-lawyers-visited-border-patrol-facility_n_5d0d3bbce4b07ae90d9cfe4f
https://www.apnews.com/46da2dbe04f54adbb875cfbc06bbc615
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/justice-department-detained-immigrant-children-soap-toothbrushes_n_5d0c1f37e4b07ae90d9a8b0d

Totally not concentration camps.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

She's right, though.
Everyone just likes to overreact and freak the hell out anymore.

I feel like people don't even understand what comparisons are.

1. estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.

Not "saying 2 things are completely indistinguishable from one another",

No one is saying that there are extermination camps and that the government has systematically killed over 6 million immigrants, just that these are concentration camps and that this the same type of shit some really rotten nations got up to in their early bad days. Anyone that says it's not as bad as what the Nazis eventually did is kind of missing the point. Shrugging off a bunch of lesser bad things is what leads to those infamous atrocities.

The same type of people getting upset here immediately start screaming about Stalinist Russia when democratic socialists run for office. Apparently illegal immigrants showing up is a crisis, but throwing them in concentration camps isn't quite the Holocaust, so whatever.
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We can't use the word concentration camp because it hurts right wingers in their fee fees.... Except when a scumbag like arpaio brags his shit are concentration camps. That's just peachy.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

She's right, though.
Everyone just likes to overreact and freak the hell out anymore.

I feel like people don't even understand what comparisons are.

1. estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.

Not "saying 2 things are completely indistinguishable from one another",

No one is saying that there are extermination camps and that the government has systematically killed over 6 million immigrants, just that these are concentration camps and that this the same type of shit some really rotten nations got up to in their early bad days. Anyone that says it's not as bad as what the Nazis eventually did is kind of missing the point. Shrugging off a bunch of lesser bad things is what leads to those infamous atrocities.

The same type of people getting upset here immediately start screaming about Stalinist Russia when democratic socialists run for office. Apparently illegal immigrants showing up is a crisis, but throwing them in concentration camps isn't quite the Holocaust, so whatever.

Your premise fails because it relies on the notion that there is something inherently wrong with rounding up illegal immigrants/asylum seekers. Only there isn't. They have to go somewhere. Would you rather have them go to prison? No, let me guess, you'd rather we just let them all live in the US....right? You can argue about needing better conditions in these places and I'd probably agree but the Holocaust analogies exist solely to fearmonger.

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.
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it's not an analogy. they are concentration camps
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Questionmarktarius posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Maybe not in a concentration camp.
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pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Maybe not in a concentration camp.

Okay.
What happens when you and 999 others ask for asylum at the same time?

Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Maybe not in a concentration camp.

Okay.
What happens when you and 999 others ask for asylum at the same time?

We put 1k people in a place that's not a concentration camp.
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pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Maybe not in a concentration camp.

Okay.
What happens when you and 999 others ask for asylum at the same time?

We put 1k people in a place that's not a concentration camp.

Like what, a tent city? That's not much better.

Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Maybe not in a concentration camp.

Okay.
What happens when you and 999 others ask for asylum at the same time?

Party at pegusus123456's house!
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Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Maybe not in a concentration camp.

Okay.
What happens when you and 999 others ask for asylum at the same time?

Y'all get paperwork to fill out and return in 7 days, and a single non refillable snap card that can also be used on hotels then sent on their way.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Maybe not in a concentration camp.

Okay.
What happens when you and 999 others ask for asylum at the same time?

We put 1k people in a place that's not a concentration camp.

Like what, a tent city? That's not much better.

If a tent city is not a literal concentration camp, then it's probably better than a literal concentration camp.

I just don't believe that America, supposedly the richest, greatest country on the planet, can only funnel people into concentration camps.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Seeking asylum isnt illegal.

But, where do you while the receiving country is thinking about it?

Maybe not in a concentration camp.

Okay.
What happens when you and 999 others ask for asylum at the same time?

We put 1k people in a place that's not a concentration camp.

Like what, a tent city? That's not much better.

We don't put them anywhere. Aren't the Republicans supposed to be the party of "you know what's better for yourself than the government does"?
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Tyranthraxus posted...

We don't put them anywhere. Aren't the Republicans supposed to be the party of "you know what's better for yourself than the government does"?

Incidentally, the repbulicans want to build better detention facilities, but the democrats keep cock-blocking it to intentionally exacerbate the disaster Cloward-Piven style.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/12/border-security-spending-deal-1163709

Detention spending also emerged in recent days as a point of contention. Democrats sought to cap detention funding to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, as the agency continues to detain more immigrants under Trump.

Grischnak posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

She's right, though.
Everyone just likes to overreact and freak the hell out anymore.

I feel like people don't even understand what comparisons are.

1. estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.

Not "saying 2 things are completely indistinguishable from one another",

No one is saying that there are extermination camps and that the government has systematically killed over 6 million immigrants, just that these are concentration camps and that this the same type of shit some really rotten nations got up to in their early bad days. Anyone that says it's not as bad as what the Nazis eventually did is kind of missing the point. Shrugging off a bunch of lesser bad things is what leads to those infamous atrocities.

The same type of people getting upset here immediately start screaming about Stalinist Russia when democratic socialists run for office. Apparently illegal immigrants showing up is a crisis, but throwing them in concentration camps isn't quite the Holocaust, so whatever.

Your premise fails because it relies on the notion that there is something inherently wrong with rounding up illegal immigrants/asylum seekers. Only there isn't. They have to go somewhere. Would you rather have them go to prison? No, let me guess, you'd rather we just let them all live in the US....right? You can argue about needing better conditions in these places and I'd probably agree but the Holocaust analogies exist solely to fearmonger.

There is something inherently wrong with concentration camps, yes.
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This is not the Holocaust, but handwaving things away because "It's not like It's the Holocaust and they kinda put themselves in this position" creates the exact kind of environment where such atrocities can grow. They don't just randomly happen one day.

That is the point of the author's article. "Never Again" is a pointless sentiment if we shouldn't make comparisons until a country is closing in on Hitler's death toll and basically the exact same thing.

That would be like not calling some new law facist-like because the country where it's been enacted is not a police state yet and think of all the historical victims you're insulting!
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So the rabbi understands that calling them "concentration camps" is comparing them to the Holocaust based on the connotation of the term.

That's the thing, the conditions in the border camps may be unethical and inhumane, but they aren't close to genocide or a gateway to genocide in any way.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

So the rabbi understands that calling them "concentration camps" is comparing them to the Holocaust based on the connotation of the term.

it is accurate. they are concentration camps.

That's the thing, the conditions in the border camps may be unethical and inhumane, but they aren't close to genocide or a gateway to genocide in any way.

yes they are.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

So the rabbi understands that calling them "concentration camps" is comparing them to the Holocaust based on the connotation of the term.

That's the thing, the conditions in the border camps may be unethical and inhumane, but they aren't close to genocide or a gateway to genocide in any way.

You are aware that comparing X to Y is not saying X is equal to Y, correct? Are you suggesting that comparisons should only be made and are only valid when the two things are identical? These literally are concentration camps. I'm sorry that upsets your delicate sensibilities and that you erroneously believe a certain inhumane threshold has to be cleared to use the term.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Grischnak posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

She's right, though.
Everyone just likes to overreact and freak the hell out anymore.

I feel like people don't even understand what comparisons are.

1. estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.

Not "saying 2 things are completely indistinguishable from one another",

No one is saying that there are extermination camps and that the government has systematically killed over 6 million immigrants, just that these are concentration camps and that this the same type of shit some really rotten nations got up to in their early bad days. Anyone that says it's not as bad as what the Nazis eventually did is kind of missing the point. Shrugging off a bunch of lesser bad things is what leads to those infamous atrocities.

The same type of people getting upset here immediately start screaming about Stalinist Russia when democratic socialists run for office. Apparently illegal immigrants showing up is a crisis, but throwing them in concentration camps isn't quite the Holocaust, so whatever.

Your premise fails because it relies on the notion that there is something inherently wrong with rounding up illegal immigrants/asylum seekers. Only there isn't. They have to go somewhere. Would you rather have them go to prison? No, let me guess, you'd rather we just let them all live in the US....right? You can argue about needing better conditions in these places and I'd probably agree but the Holocaust analogies exist solely to fearmonger.

There is something inherently wrong with concentration camps, yes.

Why? They aren't American citizens so we can't let them just go free in America and we have to have somewhere to put them. Ultimately, you have no solution other then open borders and fuck that noise.

Damn_Underscore posted...

So the rabbi understands that calling them "concentration camps" is comparing them to the Holocaust based on the connotation of the term.

That's the thing, the conditions in the border camps may be unethical and inhumane, but they aren't close to genocide or a gateway to genocide in any way.

Concentration Camps literally started as temporary holding facilities for deportation. It wasn't until later that the Nazis realized bullets were a lot cheaper than international travel.
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Grischnak posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Grischnak posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

She's right, though.
Everyone just likes to overreact and freak the hell out anymore.

I feel like people don't even understand what comparisons are.

1. estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.

Not "saying 2 things are completely indistinguishable from one another",

No one is saying that there are extermination camps and that the government has systematically killed over 6 million immigrants, just that these are concentration camps and that this the same type of shit some really rotten nations got up to in their early bad days. Anyone that says it's not as bad as what the Nazis eventually did is kind of missing the point. Shrugging off a bunch of lesser bad things is what leads to those infamous atrocities.

The same type of people getting upset here immediately start screaming about Stalinist Russia when democratic socialists run for office. Apparently illegal immigrants showing up is a crisis, but throwing them in concentration camps isn't quite the Holocaust, so whatever.

Your premise fails because it relies on the notion that there is something inherently wrong with rounding up illegal immigrants/asylum seekers. Only there isn't. They have to go somewhere. Would you rather have them go to prison? No, let me guess, you'd rather we just let them all live in the US....right? You can argue about needing better conditions in these places and I'd probably agree but the Holocaust analogies exist solely to fearmonger.

There is something inherently wrong with concentration camps, yes.

Why? They aren't American citizens so we can't let them just go free in America and we have to have somewhere to put them. Ultimately, you have no solution other then open borders and fuck that noise.

So the hill you're dying on is, "There's nothing wrong with concentration camps."
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Grischnak posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Grischnak posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

She's right, though.
Everyone just likes to overreact and freak the hell out anymore.

I feel like people don't even understand what comparisons are.

1. estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.

Not "saying 2 things are completely indistinguishable from one another",

No one is saying that there are extermination camps and that the government has systematically killed over 6 million immigrants, just that these are concentration camps and that this the same type of shit some really rotten nations got up to in their early bad days. Anyone that says it's not as bad as what the Nazis eventually did is kind of missing the point. Shrugging off a bunch of lesser bad things is what leads to those infamous atrocities.

The same type of people getting upset here immediately start screaming about Stalinist Russia when democratic socialists run for office. Apparently illegal immigrants showing up is a crisis, but throwing them in concentration camps isn't quite the Holocaust, so whatever.

Your premise fails because it relies on the notion that there is something inherently wrong with rounding up illegal immigrants/asylum seekers. Only there isn't. They have to go somewhere. Would you rather have them go to prison? No, let me guess, you'd rather we just let them all live in the US....right? You can argue about needing better conditions in these places and I'd probably agree but the Holocaust analogies exist solely to fearmonger.

There is something inherently wrong with concentration camps, yes.

Why? They aren't American citizens so we can't let them just go free in America and we have to have somewhere to put them. Ultimately, you have no solution other then open borders and fuck that noise.

So we should break up families, hold then without pressing charges, and leave them in inhumane conditions? Because they aren't citizens?

"Concentration camps because what else can we do?"
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pegusus123456 posted...

So the hill you're dying on is, "There's nothing wrong with concentration camps."

hockeybub89 posted...

So we should break up families, hold then without pressing charges, and leave them in inhumane conditions? Because they aren't citizens?

"Concentration camps because what else can we do?"

I like how you boys try to have it both ways. On one hand you're like "concentration camps aren't just connected to the Holocaust. the term concentration camp is just referring to camps where people are kept against their will" but on the other hand you try and paint defending these so-called concentration camps like defending the Holocaust. The reality is this kiddos: I was wrong when I said the only other solution is open borders. There actually is another solution. A far easier one. If people don't want to be put in these "concentration camps" then these people can *not* get themselves put in these "concentration camps". Remember, the US doesn't go to these peoples homes in their countries and kidnap them to put them into these "concentration camps". They come here of their own free will knowing that getting detained for extended periods of time in these "concentration camps" is a very likely thing they will have to deal with. They come regardless. I don't recall Jews going to Auschwitz, knowing full well what is is, and begging to be let in. Yet people keep coming to get put into these "concentration camps". Fucking funny how that works, isn't it?

If they just had furnaces and gas chambers, we'd be the Fourth Reich. The GOP must be so proud.
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Grischnak posted...

I like how you boys try to have it both ways. On one hand you're like "concentration camps aren't just connected to the Holocaust. the term concentration camp is just referring to camps where people are kept against their will"

No, I didn't say that. I'm calling them concentration camps because the conditions are atrocious and, with this administration, I wouldn't be surprised if that's intentional.

The rest of your argument I'm not even going to bother with. You have children who had no say in their circumstances getting sick and nearly dying. I don't give a shit who they are, that's wrong.
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pegusus123456 posted...

I'm calling them concentration camps because the conditions are atrocious and, with this administration, I wouldn't be surprised if that's intentional.

They've stopped just short of stating as much: the tactic is to out-terrible the conditions of the places these people are leaving.
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Grischnak posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

So the hill you're dying on is, "There's nothing wrong with concentration camps."

hockeybub89 posted...

So we should break up families, hold then without pressing charges, and leave them in inhumane conditions? Because they aren't citizens?

"Concentration camps because what else can we do?"

I like how you boys try to have it both ways. On one hand you're like "concentration camps aren't just connected to the Holocaust. the term concentration camp is just referring to camps where people are kept against their will" but on the other hand you try and paint defending these so-called concentration camps like defending the Holocaust. The reality is this kiddos: I was wrong when I said the only other solution is open borders. There actually is another solution. A far easier one. If people don't want to be put in these "concentration camps" then these people can *not* get themselves put in these "concentration camps". Remember, the US doesn't go to these peoples homes in their countries and kidnap them to put them into these "concentration camps". They come here of their own free will knowing that getting detained for extended periods of time in these "concentration camps" is a very likely thing they will have to deal with. They come regardless. I don't recall Jews going to Auschwitz, knowing full well what is is, and begging to be let in. Yet people keep coming to get put into these "concentration camps". Fucking funny how that works, isn't it?

Do you get paid by the word or do dumbfuck posts just come natural? We could try not putting them in concentration camps. If this was a normal American prison and citizens were being kept in subhuman conditions without being charged, would you be here saying "Hurr they shouldn't have made the choice to get arrested! Actions have consequences!" It is true that actions that do have consequences but there is such a thing as an inequal or unethical response.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Grischnak posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

So the hill you're dying on is, "There's nothing wrong with concentration camps."

hockeybub89 posted...

So we should break up families, hold then without pressing charges, and leave them in inhumane conditions? Because they aren't citizens?

"Concentration camps because what else can we do?"

I like how you boys try to have it both ways. On one hand you're like "concentration camps aren't just connected to the Holocaust. the term concentration camp is just referring to camps where people are kept against their will" but on the other hand you try and paint defending these so-called concentration camps like defending the Holocaust. The reality is this kiddos: I was wrong when I said the only other solution is open borders. There actually is another solution. A far easier one. If people don't want to be put in these "concentration camps" then these people can *not* get themselves put in these "concentration camps". Remember, the US doesn't go to these peoples homes in their countries and kidnap them to put them into these "concentration camps". They come here of their own free will knowing that getting detained for extended periods of time in these "concentration camps" is a very likely thing they will have to deal with. They come regardless. I don't recall Jews going to Auschwitz, knowing full well what is is, and begging to be let in. Yet people keep coming to get put into these "concentration camps". Fucking funny how that works, isn't it?

Do you get paid by the word or do dumbfuck posts just come natural? We could try not putting them in concentration camps. If this was a normal American prison and citizens were being kept in subhuman conditions without being charged, would you be here saying "Hurr they shouldn't have made the choice to get arrested! Actions have consequences!" It is true that actions that do have consequences but there is such a thing as an inequal or unethical response.

Without being charged? So we should just forget about checking their history and giving them a real opportunity where they can make a livable wage and just charge these people? The hell?

But its no shocker Californias in full support of being able to pay brown people less than minimum wage. And screw building a life. Do you know how poor life in America is for illegal immigrants? And I dont just mean since 2016.
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I'm less concerned about calling them concentration camps and more concerned about the quality of life at these facilities.

USB-C posted...

Anyone that uses the term concentration camp to describe this needs to take a walk through the Holocaust museum in Washington DC. That would imply that they can go outside though.

Just because you equate concentration camps to being a solely WW2 thing, doesnt mean its only a WW2 term.

Theyre concentration camps. Theyre not death camps. Theyre not Nazi concentration camps.

Dont know how this is so hard for people. Shouldnt expect much from a 9 karma account though.
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