Current Events > Last night's WWE Raw had an attendance of 3500.

(+) Yeah! (+)

---

Okay
---

What's it supposed to be?
---

That would be the long term result of having not made any new stars in like ten years LOL

Less than 6000 showed up for Stomping Grounds. lol
---

---

lincoln002 posted...

What's it supposed to be?

The arenas they go to tend to be made to fit 20-30k+ people and once upon a time they sold out every week. So 3,500 must of looked like the arena was almost empty.

DirkDiggles posted...

Less than 6000 showed up for Stomping Grounds. lol

And New Japan's show that's coming up soon (Super J Cup) that is in Tacoma as well is selling their tickets very quickly
---

yikes. maybe seattle aint wwe country. lets see how they do next week in a different city
---

Finally people are taking my advice.
---

They just need to bring the rock out of his coma and have him in a 4 way match against his evil twin, the guy seeing his wife while he was in the coma, and the oil tycoon trying to steal his family's land.
---

The question is: Is it WWE that is dying or pro wrestling in general? I know about AEW but it's so new that it's hard to judge how it is going to do.

AEW is gonna die.
---

Tsukasa1891 posted...

lincoln002 posted...

What's it supposed to be?

The arenas they go to tend to be made to fit 20-30k+ people and once upon a time they sold out every week. So 3,500 must of looked like the arena was almost empty.

So, was the usual camera trickery used this time?

Grischnak posted...

The question is: Is it WWE that is dying or pro wrestling in general?

$200 for a ticket to the show, or nine-ninety-nine to see the PPV and last month's RAW? Hmmm....

WWE is too "cartoony". Maybe they should focus on wrestling instead of "entertainment".

Bishop9800 posted...

WWE is too "cartoony". Maybe they should focus on wrestling instead of "entertainment".

They need more Vanilla Midgets doing somersaults and flips.
---

Bishop9800 posted...

WWE is too "cartoony". Maybe they should focus on wrestling instead of "entertainment".

Wrestling sucks so storylines and cheesy crap is what keeps people interested. The problem is that the writing stopped being clever or funny a long time ago and they dont have any charismatic wrestlers anymore. Nobody cares about WWE except for 12 year olds and rednecks
---

YookaLaylee posted...

Bishop9800 posted...

WWE is too "cartoony". Maybe they should focus on wrestling instead of "entertainment".

Wrestling sucks so storylines and cheesy crap is what keeps people interested. The problem is that the writing stopped being clever or funny a long time ago and they dont have any charismatic wrestlers anymore. Nobody cares about WWE except for 12 year olds and rednecks

This. Once McMahon had a monopoly on wrestling, shit started to go to hell. The writing was really bad, and they just shoved shit on TV

@Questionmarktarius posted...

$200 for a ticket to the show, or nine-ninety-nine to see the PPV and last month's RAW? Hmmm....

Dude, you could get 2 tickets for the price of one. They gave away free tickets at the mall. They were trying to paper the hell out of the show with crazy deals and no one wanted to go

https://411mania.com/wrestling/more-details-on-low-attendance-for-wwe-stomping-grounds-paid-attendance-reportedly-between-4000-to-4500/
---

Grischnak posted...

The question is: Is it WWE that is dying or pro wrestling in general? I know about AEW but it's so new that it's hard to judge how it is going to do.

both but WWE is killing themselves. mainly vince. he needs to just step down already. but TNA is doing horrible too. their shows look like an indy show with how few people are there. then they're on some random channel now. i know at first they had 10k tv views and 10k twitch views. but now the twitch views are like 4k. tv views are probably worse as well.

years ago WWE was getting 3.0 ratings and smackdown like 2.0. think now both are like half that. granted streaming is way more popular than cable now so that's how they try to hide it but they can't hide how bad attendance to shows have been. the ppv the night before only had like 6k people are had to move peoples seats and tarp off most of the arena so it didn't look empty.

There was so much charisma and presence throughout the 90s to about 2003, then everyone started to retire at the same time. No offense to the new talent, but its unrealistic to expect them to have the same level of charisma that Stone Cold and The Rock brought.

Its proof that people watched for the characters and the storylines and stuff. There was always that annoying group that wanted the WWE to be boring, Olympic style wrestling, but thats not what people wanted to see. When the characters left the show, the fan base left.
---

Bishop9800 posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

Bishop9800 posted...

WWE is too "cartoony". Maybe they should focus on wrestling instead of "entertainment".

Wrestling sucks so storylines and cheesy crap is what keeps people interested. The problem is that the writing stopped being clever or funny a long time ago and they dont have any charismatic wrestlers anymore. Nobody cares about WWE except for 12 year olds and rednecks

This. Once McMahon had a monopoly on wrestling, shit started to go to hell. The writing was really bad, and they just shoved shit on TV

I went to RAW in LA a few weeks ago, as someone who never watched wrestling before in my life. I loved the athleticism of the performers, watching them do it up close was pretty amazing.

That said, I have no idea why people would be interested in the storylines. As someone who wasnt up on it, it was just a bunch of adults snarling and howling at each other. Even as someone who never watches wrestling , I still knew who the people were too beforehand (Roman, Seth Rollins, Alexa etc) but still didnt care enough about their characters

The actual wrestling was fun enough, but I agree its the generic writing that will keep me from coming back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vtv173QAzs" data-time="
---

AEW is starting to get more attention. Plus it has that old WCW feel to it

Bishop9800 posted...

AEW is starting to get more attention. Plus it has that old WCW feel to it

AEW will for 100% beat Raw for 6-weeks before Vince wakes up and puts on some crazy Raw and we start getting Raws to watch. Well, Smackdown is on Fox, so that might be the focus

But yes. AEW goes 6-0 against both Raw and Smackdown before something crazy happens and the WWE get a W
---

The product is shit and there's too many wrestlers and not enough screen time to go around. It's impossible to have compelling storylines when 80% of the roster are jobbers.
---

Bad_Mojo posted...

AEW will for 100% beat Raw for 6-weeks before Vince wakes up and puts on some crazy Raw and we start getting Raws to watch. Well, Smackdown is on Fox, so that might be the focus

True. And yes, SD is the focus now. Plus I bet you that titles will be unified by the time Fox puts them on.

Fox is expecting this to be a big ratings deal. If they don't deliver, then bye bye WWE.

Whatvwas the attendance like during the WCW and WWF eras? That was the last time I watches wrestling.
---

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

Whatvwas the attendance like during the WCW and WWF eras? That was the last time I watches wrestling.

every show sold out during the Attitude Era/Monday Night Wars.
---

Unfortunately hillbilly kids don't care about pro wrestling anymore, and that's who the WWE cater to.
---

AEW has no mid-card or lower card deep enough to carry a weekly show. One off shows are fine but once it comes time to actually compete they are still not in WWE's league even as awful as WWE is lately. TNA had a better roster and they were absolutely destroyed when they tried it. Wrestling is niche in the United States, that's a fact and everyone needs to adjust their expectations and accept it.

Fanboys are deluding themselves.
---

Vyrulisse posted...

AEW has no mid-card or lower card deep enough to carry a weekly show. One off shows are fine but once it comes time to actually compete they are still not in WWE's league even as awful as WWE is lately. TNA had a better roster and they were absolutely destroyed when they tried it.

Fanboys are deluding themselves.

They have a shit-load of mid card people

Go look at their roster and tell me how many of those people you know -

https://www.allelitewrestling.com/roster
---

I probably haven't watched in like 3 or 4 years (and even then, it wasn't much just shit my friend would watch while I was over), but when I did it was super fucking boring.

It felt like nobody knew how to do a proper match. It was either super boring shit, or dudes just doing stunts for cheap pops over and over (which I also find boring). It was like nobody knew how to tell a story with a match.
---

EvalAngell posted...

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

Whatvwas the attendance like during the WCW and WWF eras? That was the last time I watches wrestling.

every show sold out during the Attitude Era/Monday Night Wars.

Did they change script writers or something when WWF became WWE?
---

Vince micromanages too much
---

Vyrulisse posted...

AEW has no mid-card or lower card deep enough to carry a weekly show. One off shows are fine but once it comes time to actually compete they are still not in WWE's league even as awful as WWE is lately. TNA had a better roster and they were absolutely destroyed when they tried it. Wrestling is niche in the United States, that's a fact and everyone needs to adjust their expectations and accept it.

Fanboys are deluding themselves.

And it's a shame that with all the talent the WWE has, it's still not preforming up to its OWN standards.

The TNA thing was different . They went to hell when Dixie let Hogan run the company. Before that, they were serious competition.

Bad_Mojo posted...

They have a s***-load of mid card people

Go look at their roster and tell me how many of those people you know -

https://www.allelitewrestling.com/roster

WTF is with all the executive vice presidents?
---

Bad_Mojo posted...

Vyrulisse posted...

AEW has no mid-card or lower card deep enough to carry a weekly show. One off shows are fine but once it comes time to actually compete they are still not in WWE's league even as awful as WWE is lately. TNA had a better roster and they were absolutely destroyed when they tried it.

Fanboys are deluding themselves.

They have a shit-load of mid card people

Go look at their roster and tell me how many of those people you know -

https://www.allelitewrestling.com/roster

The only draws are the upper card people and management. That's not a good situation.

Omega, Bucks, Jericho are the only proven draws. Moxley is an internet darling but he's not proven as a legit draw and Cody is forever the 3-Star General.
---

Swagnificent119 posted...

WTF is with all the executive vice presidents?

Don't ask me. I don't even really know what a producer is, lol
---

When you have your main event being Seth Rollins vs Borring Corbin instead of pushing the likes of Samoa Joe, you'd understand why their shows aren't selling out.
---

MJP will be a better, more athletic Miz. That's a good start for a mid card.

And that's AEW's hook. Athleticism and technical matches that supplement larger-than-life personalities. AEW isn't going to have most of its roster be no-skill dead weight like the WWE has become. It will be wrestling and lots of it.

Joshi, lucha, women, actual cruiserweights. AEW has it all.
---

Vyrulisse posted...

The only draws are the upper card people and management. That's not a good situation.

Omega, Bucks, Jericho are the only proven draws. Moxley is an internet darling but he's not proven as a legit draw and Cody is forever the 3-Star General.

I was just correcting you. As you're just saying now, you think they only have those top stars. But before you said they were hurting for mid/low-card guys. Which is it, in your opinion?

I have been a fan of pro wrestling for over 30 years. I never once had any faith in TNA or ROH, and look at them now. I have always had faith in New Japan, and they're bigger than ever right now, becoming a truly world wide promotion. I have been wrong about stupid shit like who's going to win a match or where an angle is going to go, but I have almost never in my life have been wrong about trends in pro wrestling and who is going to be a major star and who isn't. Which promotion is going to do well and which one are not. AEW is going to be a big thing, and I will not be wrong about that
---

Starks posted...

AEW isn't going to have most of its roster be no-skill dead weight like the WWE has become.

Not for nothing but Jericho is literally playing the role of Hogan when he defected to WCW. Old and over the hill but is still main eventing shows. He is the draw to AEW much like NWO Hogan to WCW.
---

EvalAngell posted...

Not for nothing but Jericho is literally playing the role of Hogan when he defected to WCW. Old and over the hill but is still main eventing shows. He is the draw to AEW much like NWO Hogan to WCW.

But Jericho isn't going to work himself into a shoot, brother, and kill every fucking thing he touches, brother, brother
---

EvalAngell posted...

Starks posted...

AEW isn't going to have most of its roster be no-skill dead weight like the WWE has become.

Not for nothing but Jericho is literally playing the role of Hogan when he defected to WCW. Old and over the hill but is still main eventing shows. He is the draw to AEW much like NWO Hogan to WCW.

As long as Jericho can keep hitting the Lionsault, I don't care.
---

Tsukasa1891 posted...

lincoln002 posted...

What's it supposed to be?

The arenas they go to tend to be made to fit 20-30k+ people and once upon a time they sold out every week. So 3,500 must of looked like the arena was almost empty.

The arena they were in houses 10,000 people. Even still, they only filled about 1/3 of that which is still sad.

Starks posted...

As long as Jericho can keep hitting the Lionsault, I don't care.

he hasn't hit that move cleanly in about 15 years lol.

Did you get a chance to see Ricochet do it last night to AJ Styles though? Shit was silky smooth.
---

Rant time. I've ranted about this before, but it's cathartic, so i'll do it again.

I want AEW to absolutely fucking wipe the floor with WWE. Just fucking destroy them in ratings, have fans chant AEW over and over again at events, take jabs at their bullshit product on live TV, just fucking stomp them on them and mash their foot around on them over and over again.

And then MAYBE, god forbid, just MAYBE, Vince will pull his idiotic, stubborn head out of his stupid ass and realize that MAYBE, god forbid, just MAYBE, he should do something different to win fans back instead of hiring 'writers' that go to the goddamned assembly line every fucking week with wonderfully gripping, edge of your seat, character and plot driven examples of terrific storytelling such as:

A)I don't like you. I don't like you either! Let's fight

and

B)I want your title! You can't have it! But I want it! Fight me for it! Okay!

And then after that realization MAYBE comes and Vince snaps the fuck out of it, and realizes that his product is a fucking rhino turd wrapped in raw sewage toilet paper, thats when I want the WWE to do well. I want to see them come back with a vengeance. I want to see them restore their former glory. I want to see them and AEW, every week, saying oh yeah, top this motherfuckers. Because we'll all win in the end.

Because that'll be reminiscent of the greatest era in wrestling ever, the Attitude era. Why was it so great? Because almost everybody on the goddamned roster was used, it seemed like everyone was in a storyline or a feud, we kept wanting to see what would happen next, the storylines were fun and original, and they didn't waste THREE, FUCKING, HOURS of everybody's time with useless filler segments that are just that, because they can't figure out how to fill a three hour show despite never using half of their fucking roster.

And it'll never get better for them until they have competition and they don't give a rat's fucking ass because they know they can take a fucking dump into a play-doh machine and come out with something they think is abysmally entertaining, which it never is, and people will still watch because they're still #1 in town, as pathetic as that is.

tl;dr I hope AEW beats WWE's fucking face into hamburger meat. Then I hope WWE wakes the fuck up and starts fighting back. Then AEW fights back. Competition = Entertainment = everybody wins.

*inhale exhale inhale exhale inhale exhale* Ok i'm done. /rant
---

Bishop9800 posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

Bishop9800 posted...

WWE is too "cartoony". Maybe they should focus on wrestling instead of "entertainment".

Wrestling sucks so storylines and cheesy crap is what keeps people interested. The problem is that the writing stopped being clever or funny a long time ago and they dont have any charismatic wrestlers anymore. Nobody cares about WWE except for 12 year olds and rednecks

This. Once McMahon had a monopoly on wrestling, shit started to go to hell. The writing was really bad, and they just shoved shit on TV

1999 had some of the most abysmal writing ever, WWE sucked well before WCW and ECW bit the dust.
---