Board 8 > Avengers Endgame has beaten Avatar to become the highest grossing film ever

(+) Yeah! (+)

tyder21 posted...

Comparing movies across decades is a crapshoot anyway. "Inflation" is just one factor of so many that makes the comparison useless.

Number of movie theaters, availability of 3D/IMAX/etc tickets, exchange rates for international markets, the rise of streaming services, how fast before the movie is available for home watching, wider international releases (esp China), time movies would sit in theaters, ...

So I mean, sure, you can adjust for inflation. The overall numbers are still kinda meaningless. You just can't really know how an old movie would fare nowadays.

I mean, sure, you could consider every single factor that makes the two films different as a reason not to compare them, but if you are going that way you might as well stop making comparison between media altogether. Of course there are things that make them different, but we can accept that and then discuss the reasons it's different, while still acknowledging that more people saw Gone with the Wind than Avengers.

What is silly is to make the comparison for money, and then pretend currency has the same value across eras. It's dumb. It's like comparing values in different currencies as they are the same. Or saying Brazil is larger than USA by measuring Brazil's area in km and USA's in mi.

I'm probably one of the few people in the world who is sad about this. Not too sad since I don't really follow box office numbers, but I've never cared about the Marvel movies. I've only seen GotG1 and the Edward Notron Hulk movie.

By comparison, I saw Avatar three times in theaters. It remains the only movie I've gone out to see multiple times like that. Admittedly I haven't seen it since but I still remember it fondly. All the complaints about it being cliche always felt so overblown to me (especially nowadays since the people making that argument are implying Marvel movies are bastions of originality LOL). There are no new stories and Avatar put one hell of a coat of paint over an old one.

Anyway, RIP Avatar's record.
---

Individual Marvel movies may not be "bastions of originality," but the MCU as a whole is.
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Roger Ebert didn't give it 4 stars for nothing (not that I like the movie THAT much, but still).

ebert gave it 4 stars because he was a bad critic who had the mindset of "if a movie has lots of eye candy, it's a total masterpiece by default!!" (see also: his review of the phantom menace)

It wasn't just eye candy, it was the ability to draw him into a whole new world that he gave those movies such good reviews for. The Phantom Menace got so much flack at the time because it wasn't the Star Wars movie people wanted to see, which probably just made its flaws stand out all the more.
---

Okay I'm not saying it's some ultra-unique film but Endgame is way more original than Avatar. It at least felt fresh within its genre, Avatar did not other than the visuals.
---

neither endgame nor avatar is particularly original, but my problem with avatar was never its unoriginality. it was that the story sucked/was poorly told.

the unoriginality argument i never fully understood, really. a new hope is literally just the hero's journey beat for beat and everyone loves that movie. as long as you execute an old story well, i'm fine with it.
---

Not really sure how Endgame isn't original. Just the build to it is rather unprecedented, as is the way the conflict is presented. I guess you could call it similar to the likes of RotJ but I would call that a stretch. Most MCU movies I wouldn't call particularly original but there are a few there. Civil War and Infinity War/Endgame do get some points there.

I guess you'd call that originality on the MCU's part but eh. Endgame more than any other movie in the MCU really uses that world building in a way not many movies do.
---

That being said I don't particularly care about originality either

Just wondering what your standards for it are if Endgame isn't. Feels more like action movies can't be original elitism than anything.
---

Lopen posted...

Not really sure how Endgame isn't original.

i said that it's not particularly original, not that it's not original period.

by MCU standards it's pretty original, but let's not act like it's 2001: a space odyssey.
---

Lopen posted...

Feels more like action movies can't be original elitism than anything.

wut? i love action movies and i thought endgame was good.

misrepresenting what i said and then immediately accusing me of being elitist based on this misrepresentation isn't cool. i expect better from you!
---

I'd say by Avatar standards, which is the context of the originality comment, it's pretty original too. Avatar is a pretty version of a story that has been told many times.

Like I wouldn't call a strength of Endgame "originality" or anything but I can't really think of any movies like it, either, so I'm not sure "not particularly original" is a fair assessment. It's a unique viewing experience even if it's not super deep or anything.
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

misrepresenting what i said and then immediately accusing me of being elitist based on this misrepresentation isn't cool. i expect better from you!

I'm not talking about you specifically I just meant people who say this in general make me think they've got that hat on cause I wouldn't really say it's something to criticize Endgame for. Robazoid said it first after all.
---

Lopen posted...

I'd say by Avatar standards, which is the context of the originality comment, it's pretty original too. Avatar is a pretty version of a story that has been told many times.

absolutely. i didn't mean to imply that avatar and endgame are the same on the originality-scale, endgame is definitely more original. what i was trying to say was: neither movie really blows me away for being super original. for me the big difference is that endgame had a pretty good, well told story and avatar did not. not that one movie is extremely original and the other one isn't.

Like I wouldn't call a strength of Endgame "originality" or anything but I can't really think of any movies like it, either, so I'm not sure "not particularly original" is a fair assessment. It's a unique viewing experience even if it's not super deep or anything.

is endgame THAT much different from infinity war? i'd say that one is pretty similar in how it's an ensemble cast of superheroes trying to defeat a big baddie. obviously, there are differences but yeah. and obviously, we've seen elements of endgame before in countless other movies too (like the time travel subplot).

I'm not talking about you specifically I just meant people who say this in general make me think they've got that hat on cause I wouldn't really say it's something to criticize Endgame for. Robazoid said it first after all.

oh ok. well, apparently robazoid hasn't even seen endgame, so i'm not sure how he's able to gauge its originality >_>

it's funny because one of the two he did see, guardians of the galaxy is pretty damn original. not only does it combine flash gordon/star wars with the superhero genre, it also has elements of a troma movie (with a much bigger budget than a troma movie would have, obviously). that's pretty crazy. i'd say it's more original than endgame, personally!

the incredible hulk probably isn't that original, though.
---

Lopen posted...

Robazoid said it first after all.

He also said he only watched two MCU movies...
---

By original I meant that the Marvel movies are all adaptations of comic book stories, which to me precludes originality since it's the same story in a different format. I realize now that other people might judge originality by how original the comic story was so I should've worded that better.

I'm not an authority on the comic book stories either, to be fair. I'm just a sad Avatar fan who wanted to make a post
---

I just think a movie starting with the chips that far down and the path to the solution to the problem being ambiguous for that long is pretty original. Time travel in and of itself isn't a unique idea, you're right, but the way they did it was interesting and heavily drew on existing franchise lore to enhance it-- again you may chalk this up to originality of the MCU as a concept but I think Endgame is the big one that fully realizes the potential there.

Like Endgame ain't anywhere near my favorite MCU movie but I think as far as the pathing of the plot and overall viewing experience goes it's fairly unique.

Infinity War any originality comes from the ending, but that's worth a lot-- otherwise it's structured as pretty standard fare of buncha heroes team up to fight a big bad. It's true Endgame eventually gets there too but the path to get there in Endgame is way different than Infinity War's.

Civil War is the most original of the lot though imo, all things considered.

And yeah I guess GotG would be up there too thinking about it
---

avatar sucks because it is bad
---

Robazoid posted...

By original I meant that the Marvel movies are all adaptations of comic book stories, which to me precludes originality since it's the same story in a different format. I realize now that other people might judge originality by how original the comic story was so I should've worded that better.

I'm not an authority on the comic book stories either, to be fair. I'm just a sad Avatar fan who wanted to make a post

I'm not intimately familiar with Infinity War but as I understand it the MCU takes a lot of liberties with the source material. In most of the movies, really.
---

Lopen posted...

but the way they did it was interesting and heavily drew on existing franchise lore to enhance it

until they threw out all of the logic in it halfway through to rehash a fight that didn't need to happen. i was actually impressed with how careful they were until then
---

Lopen posted...

Robazoid posted...

By original I meant that the Marvel movies are all adaptations of comic book stories, which to me precludes originality since it's the same story in a different format. I realize now that other people might judge originality by how original the comic story was so I should've worded that better.

I'm not an authority on the comic book stories either, to be fair. I'm just a sad Avatar fan who wanted to make a post

I'm not intimately familiar with Infinity War but as I understand it the MCU takes a lot of liberties with the source material. In most of the movies, really.

yeah even if it's an adaption of a story that already existed, the way they tell the story is more important. otherwise any nerd could make a flipnote version of a comic into a movie
---

Lopen posted...

Time travel in and of itself isn't a unique idea, you're right, but the way they did it was interesting and heavily drew on existing franchise lore to enhance it-- again you may chalk this up to originality of the MCU as a concept but I think Endgame is the big one that fully realizes the potential there.

it's not entirely original (back to the future 2 did this too, sort of) but yeah, endgame definitely took this idea to another level.

Lopen posted...

I'm not intimately familiar with Infinity War but as I understand it the MCU takes a lot of liberties with the source material. In most of the movies, really.

oh yeah, infinity war and endgame are a very loose adaptation of the infinity gauntlet comics. they have some similarities but the movies pretty much do their own thing.
---

Endgame is literally 2001: a space odyssey.
---

Nothing is entirely original.

/thread

The only reason this becomes anything more than an interesting factoid is if you are, like me, obsessed with moviegoing and TV-watching trends or you are very insecure about your opinion and seek outside validation for it.
---

Lightning Strikes posted...

Okay I'm not saying it's some ultra-unique film but Endgame is way more original than Avatar. It at least felt fresh within its genre, Avatar did not other than the visuals.

Admittedly I'm not generally much into the team-up Marvel movies. The Avengers, Infinity War, and Endgame all feel like films that accomplish what they set out to do and little more. I would agree with Roger Ebert on The Avengers being a 3-star film.

Avatar, while not a masterpiece, does go above and beyond by comparison. It's not just the visuals. The film just has that special something that most newer blockbusters lack. But I admitted I'm a huge fan of Jim Cameron and I enjoy how he throws so much money at the screen it becomes practically an art form.
---

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Lightning Strikes posted...

Okay I'm not saying it's some ultra-unique film but Endgame is way more original than Avatar. It at least felt fresh within its genre, Avatar did not other than the visuals.

Admittedly I'm not generally much into the team-up Marvel movies. The Avengers, Infinity War, and Endgame all feel like films that accomplish what they set out to do and little more. I would agree with Roger Ebert on The Avengers being a 3-star film.

Avatar, while not a masterpiece, does go above and beyond by comparison. It's not just the visuals. The film just has that special something that most newer blockbusters lack. But I admitted I'm a huge fan of Jim Cameron and I enjoy how he throws so much money at the screen it becomes practically an art form.

I don't think anyone really cares about your opinion tbqh.
---

LMS doesn't have opinions they're just recycled opinions from other sources
---