Board 8 > Zelda continues to play Danganronpa (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm telling you, I'm doing a fabulous job at avoiding spoilers. Normally I'm much worse than that.

I already knew who the main villains of AA4 and 5 were before getting to the final cases, for example. This time I still don't know who the villain of DR2 is.

Ok so...

Nagito is out because of protagonism.

Chiaki feels like Kyoko 2.0 but not completely so she is not toyally out, but I don't remember her having any connection to this case or recent plots. Well I guess she played triangle with the two victims so she could know more about the building's layout.

Kazuichi has the involvement with the communication, and the fact he was at a different location to manage the videos. He's a strong suspect.

Fuyu is out because Peko's death makes him immortal.

Nekomaru is not even here.

Akane is plot linked to Nekomaru. Her dieing before he comes back is weird. And I don't think she was even in a state that allowed her to kill people.

Mikan is my other strong suspect, it's possible she got the disease and it made her evil, plus she had the best conditions to snatch someone from the hospital.

Sonia is out because her involvement explains how Hiyoko got in the mess.

Is Gundham even involved? Like Chiaki, he's not really out, but there is no reason he is in either. Unless some case puzzles require hamsters to fulfill. Such as how the black fabric got put in a high place.

It's Mikan or Kazuichi, with Gundham/Chiaki running as dark horses.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Yeah I think next time this happens I will just not announce it here.

Or you could just not do it.

Fun fact: I thought I had spoiled myself on DR2. I wanted to look up images of one of the characters and ended up on the wiki. I was leery, but I went okay, this seems contained. They have spoilers blocked off. I should be good. And then I saw some line in the appearance section that made it sound like this character was the archvillain. And I was completely, ridiculously wrong. But I kept playing the game, looking at that character with a sinister eye thinking they were going to pull some crap any time now. Instead, they never did anything remotely suspicious. (Turns out, whatever I saw was linked to some kind of extra in DR3.)
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TV Tropes is terrible in that sense. I've gotten burned by it so many times.

Tbh spoilers aren't that bad. It's annoying to know you have been spoiled, but after I finish a work I usually realize I just got the plot points in a different order, and I can still appreciate its structure.

So... the truth bullets say Mikan was with me the whole time before Monokuma's announcement. Does this mean she has an alibi? I'd kind of ignored that evidence because afaik, Hajime *shouldn't* know how long she had been in his cottage, but it seems the game is slipping that info to me.

If so, that makes Kazuichi the obvious main suspect.

"The emptier your head, the ore dreams you can stuff inside!" Naruto, is that you?

Nagito put throws the shit on the fan and calls Hajime out as a possible liar. Atta boy, Nagito. Too bad I have a power of protagonism and a free alibi item from Monokuma.

Aaaaand Nagito already knew of my alibi and he's just making us waste time.

One thing that is weird about this series is how characters examine objects that are not around as if they were. So far I've just agreed to pretend they took pictures or something, but now they are matching a piece of scrap to a wallpaper they don't have with them and pretending they do. It's weird.

I feel like I'm way ahead of the logic in this case. Cases 1 and 2 were harder to understand, 1 because of the Nagito weirdness and 2 because of the flashback part, but here I've mostly figured out how the crime was commited. I just beat Logic Dive and it was sooooo easy to get the answers. It's just the killer that isn't super clear.

I don't understand the connection between the lion being pumped full of arroes and Hiyoko being hand on duck tape.

Gundham calling for a rebuttal showdown is forced as fuck but I forgive it because it's Gundham and his "arguments" are amazing. Also a pretty short showdown, for some reason.

"Aside from Mikan, no one knew of that fact, so the killer didn't now either". Find the error in this argument.

Is Nagito implying Ibuki killed Hioyko? I was actually thinking of that possibility, tbh. But was Ibuki the mastermind of this case or is there a third person who made her do it and then kill herself?

Chiaki: "...Too much info". Yup.

Yeah it's 99% sure Mikan. Her alii breaks if we uncover the fake video thing.

Oh, so the lack of connection to the lion kill is un porpose. Noice.

Akane: "Why won't you just let me shine already?". Because you're a dumbass.

Three hangman's gambits and two logic dives. Meh. I'm going to go sleep.

Aaaand it's Mikan. Danmit. The game really did go there.

Mikan lost because she made an elaborate plan to create an alibi, when instead it might have been better to just mix herself with the other alibi-less people and force the case into a dead end. It seems this is a common thing in this game, whoever made extra steps to hide themselves ends up getting snuffed because the other kids spot those steps.

Those people should play mafia some time. They'd learn the best way to not get caught is not to convince others you're innocent, it's to just blend among the suspects and let the game's odds, which are already rigged in your team's favor, take you to victory.

Nagito coming down with the plot twists. We're gonna make a Makoto of you eventually, kid.

But nope, he drops the clue and refuses to say what it means. Danmit.

Oh Mikan lied about the autopsy. Yep, that's what I'm saying. Why lie about the autopsy when you could be straightforward about it and leave no clue about who could have made the kill during the night? Its the same mistake Celeste made: she inserted herself into the main events too much.

Nagito basically solo'd this case.

Mikan reveals her evil side. And I was thinking she had been afflicted with the disease or something. But this is a better turn of events.

Fuyu: "Is this broad really okay". lol at the old man talk.

Ok this camera angle thing was kind of forced. I don't remember whether Hajime mentioned "camera angle" when he described the video and the game doesn't provide any hint to that. I got a game over while trying to figure it out.

Evil Mikan would make a good horror film character. Especially one set at a hospital.

The narration just told me you and "they" yearn for true despair. What.

"Theather bonus prize". "Bonus theater prize". "Theater prize bonus". Word order doesn't matter that much in the English language, but it matters in this crappy mini-game.

Eh... is Mikan from World Ender?

No she isn't, but she knows stuff. Apparently there is a Future Foundation too. The plot thickens.

Weird ass execution scene.

Nekomaru is now a robot. I totally did not see that coming. And I'm okay with that development.

Funnily enough they don't make the hangouts with Nekomaru pre- and post-robot any different like they do with Nagito. They just occasionally through in some extra lines when it becomes semi-relevant.
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Weird ass case. I agree it's the weakest in this game so far, though it wasn't as bad as the posters here implied. It's probably close to 1-3. It has the same issues: the puzzle is too easy, the killer inserts themselves too much into the plot, the motives are unnatural. I'm starting to feel having two victims in this setting just makes it too hard to write a complex murder case. It constrains the events too much and forces the puzzle to be about killing order and alibis.

I mean, compare to 2-2, the best case in this game so far, which was extremely opaque, because it allowed itself to play around with multiple suspects, while Peko's connection to the crime was much less obvious.

Mikan's motive was the disease and at the same time it was not. And the part that was not, was not really explained. She had a beloved... and wanted to join them? Is this going to be explained better later? If not then Mikan is just joining Junko as someone who was written to be weird rather than to be a person. Meh. I prefer Celeste wanting to be a vampire queen, tbh.

But it was a fun case overall, and I wanna play more because this plot is making me really curious.

Btw, the genders are very unbalanced now. I think this is the first time in the series one gender exceeds another by 3. Which means next case will probaly feature some dude on dude killings.

And Chiaki, Akane and Sonia all look like endgame survivors tbh. Chiaki has protagonism, Sonia has a bunch of interesting dialogue and personality, and I don't like Akane that much but it seems the game is trying to give her a full character arc.

Meanwhile, Nakomaru, Gundham and Kazuichi are filler, though some of them could be kept alive as endgame cast balancers just like Hina and Hiro. Nagito has a larger death flag than the rest of the cast combined. And only Hajime and Fuyu are really unkillable imo

One thing that's kind of bothering me is how the motives in this case are considerably more forced than in DR1. Case 2-1 was caused by Nagito, who apparently has more info than most, bringing chaos to an otherwise peaceful situation. 2-2 and 2-3 were caused by strategic reveals of specific memories by Monokuma. It's like the bad guys are taking a more active approach at influencing the cast to kill each other, rather than wait and prove their human instincts will do the job. This serves to balance the fact this cast seems to have achieved unity a lot more easily than DR1's one, yet that unity doesn't matter because at any point, Monokuma can trigger a memory reveal that will turn someone into a killer. Not sure if this is a better system, I think DR1 felt more natural.

I figured out 2-3 at th beginning and its the only one from dr2 I did, because I realized the thermostat thing and that only Mikan would have the necessary knowledge to do it.

The gender imbalance will be highlighted in the next case, to the extent that Makoto gets to be an honorary girl. Also be prepared to stare at a lot of really intense red and green for a while. It kinda gave me a headache.

And I agree that the motives in DR2 are much more forced. I liked it better when it was simply the group's dynamics that pushed the players to these extremes. But that's mostly just 2-2 and 2-3.
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azuarc posted...

The gender imbalance will be highlighted in the next case, to the extent that Makoto gets to be an honorary girl. Also be prepared to stare at a lot of really intense red and green for a while. It kinda gave me a headache.

And I agree that the motives in DR2 are much more forced. I liked it better when it was simply the group's dynamics that pushed the players to these extremes. But that's mostly just 2-2 and 2-3.

Makoto?

It's okay, I don't blame you for mistaking a bland generic protagonist for another.

Sorry, Kazuichi, this ain't Scooby Doo. You won't bring Nekomaru back by removing his mask.

Ok, I'm officially a fan of Nekomaru. This is Alphonse Elric, but even more optimistic. He is just so happy to be alive he is okay with not being a human anymore.

This is going to have nasty drawbacks isn't it. I'm not even thinking of the Nekomaru dieing spoiler, but I bet Monokuma has some way of controlling him, or something.

"Do ultimate robots dream of clockwork?" Good question.

Akane on Mikan's backstory: "Then there us nothing to worry about". Famous last words.

One thing I really love about Gundham is that he's not just a pure comic relief, like Hiro. He's an intelligent, problem-solving dude who can say important things when needed.

He's giving a damn about the main plot and wanting to solve it, which is something I feel this cast really lacks overall. It was fine in DR1 when I knew nothing and learned things along with the kids, but here the kids know nothing and I have to wait them catch up to me. Well, Gundham is heping them catch up faster.

Ok so Future Fundation sounds like the good guys, especially since Monomi is included. The fact the plot is treating them like they are World Ender might be a misdirection. If they are the good guys, my money is on Chiaki being their mole. If they are really evil, then this is trickier, because I think my Evil Chiaki theory is more or less busted at this point, so it's gonna be someone harmless looking like Kazuichi or Sonia.

But if the "traitor" is good, then who the hell is controlling Monokuma?

Nagito thinks Hajime is evil and I want to shake his hand because I think that too. Like I mentioned before, it's possible Hajime is the villain and lost his memory.

Nekomaru wants to show a new function. I feel like when reading One Piece and seeing Franky's new moves. Is it gonna be rocket fart? Please let it be rocket fart.

His tears are cola. Close enough. This is a reference, isn't it?

Monokuma is offering PLOT. It's a trap, but can anyone resist PLOT? I know I can't. And I guess there are boat parts, for the weirdos who want to leave for some reason.

An amusement park. Don't lower your guard, Hajime, these tend to be dangerous. They have stuff like giant dragon-shaped balloons that are hard to aim against, or roller coaster levels that are easy to fall from.

Where is Sakura to barge into Monomi's house when we need her?

Nekomaru has a clock. Your move, World Ender.

Is there any attraction in this park that isn't out of order?

Chiaki wishes the park had more videogames. Lmao.

Daaaaw she doesn't have any friends. Such is the fate of a nerd.

Sonia totally wants to go to Gundham's Amusement Park of Hell. I can relate.

Sonia is not a virgin. Kazuichi, who probably is a virgin, is shocked.

Kazuichi's fear face is one of this series' Top 5 expressions.

Roller Coaster expressions:

- Hajime: Regular enjoyment (because it's Hajime so it has to be regular)
- Sonia: childish glee at riding a rollercoaster for the first time.
- Kazuichi: 404 NOT FOUND
- Chiaki: This is relaxing.
- Gundham: I wanted the other kids to think I'm hardcore but now I'm just feeling sick.
- Fuyu: Rare moment of sincere happiness (I love it).
- Nagito: See Fuyu above.
- Akane: Life is a party.
- Nekomaru: This is so fun I'm sweating bolts.

Aaaaand we get a file on DR1! Finally! I was wondering when those kids would catch up.

We are put in a complex building with three floors and at least one soundproof room. Monokuma Inc., providing you with crime scenes for all of your crime needs.

Nekomaru has a button to make him sleep since they couldn' install a way to make him sleep with gas. How convenient.

It is clear the goal of this building is to induce murder by torturing those kids with this diabetes-inducing decoration.

Fuyu wants to talk to Akane about feelings but she is too much of an idiot to understand even the basic feelings about regret and sacrifice. I guess this scene ilustrates the different between a well-written and a badly-written character.

Rascist Sonia should be a meme.

Monokuma Archive. So that's where the PLOT probably is. It better be good, we are literally going to have to lose 2 people for it.

Oh shit there is no food.
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Okay, this is dirty, Monokuma. I thought the point was to prove people will choose despair over hope willingly? Starving people to near death proves nothing. It goes with what I said about the motives in this game being forced.

Akane: "I don't mind starving as long as I can eat!" Makes sense.

A statue of Sakura. That's about the most badass decoration a room could have.

Ok, I get it, Grape Tower and Straberry Tower are the same place. Chiaki figured that out pretty fast, too.

The hamsters won't starve. All is well.

Aaaand the ship parts were just from a toy. Someone kill this bear. Maybe that Sakura statue can come to life and grind him to bits.

The archive apparently doesn't have PLOT, just random Monokuma artifacts. Meh.

Only one of the doors to the tower opens at a time. This is a literal Zelda dungeon puzzle. Which is also perfect for murders.

Sonia wants to explain the three laws of robotics but Hajime won't let them. Lame.

Why open a door normally when you can train a hamster named San-D to do it? Its way more awesome that way.

Oh, so this is what he meant by Hajime being a honorary girl. I'm... uuh... honored. Kazuichi doesn't enjoy this turn of events, though.

Sonia will provide the little portraits on the room doors. Such an important part of the Danganronpa experience that cannot be skipped.

Monokuma Theater on morse code. Anyone wants to tell me what he said so I don't have to google it?

'Be sure to drink your Kumatine. is what it says apparently.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Monokuma Theater on morse code. Anyone wants to tell me what he said so I don't have to google it?

I actually had never looked it up before. Just did and found this explanation on the Steam site:

The code translates to 'Be sure to drink your Kumatine', which is a reference to A Christmas Story. The protagonist in the story tried to decipher a code from a radio message, hoping for it to be something interesting, but in fact the code was simply 'Be sure to drink your Ovaltine', which was just a disappointing commercial.

It probably works similarly in this case - you're hoping for the code Monokuma said to be something interesting, but then you find out it was simply just a disappointing commercial.
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Typical.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

He's giving a damn about the main plot and wanting to solve it, which is something I feel this cast really lacks overall. It was fine in DR1 when I knew nothing and learned things along with the kids, but here the kids know nothing and I have to wait them catch up to me.

Well, at least they're more involved in the trials these days. They make DR1 cast look vegetative in contrast..
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Raka_Putra posted...

ZeldaTPLink posted...

He's giving a damn about the main plot and wanting to solve it, which is something I feel this cast really lacks overall. It was fine in DR1 when I knew nothing and learned things along with the kids, but here the kids know nothing and I have to wait them catch up to me.

Well, at least they're more involved in the trials these days. They make DR1 cast look vegetative in contrast..

This is mostly because of the Agree mechanic making them look less idiotic
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I wasn't convinced that execution even killed Mikan. Was like, okay, she's just...gone. The rocket didn't explode, she didn't fly off into space, just gone
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The executions so far are underwhelming IMHO. I feel like they're too outlandish or too ambiguous compared to DR1's.
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The Teruteru execution was amazing.

The Peko execution was average, with the Fuyu scene being the only thing that made it special.

The Mikan execution was meh.

Mikan's might just be my least favorite.

DR1's had this unmatched brutality, especially in Leon's (which was terrifyingly realistic) and Makoto's/Kirigiri's (delaying the strike just a bit so that the anticipation got to them was wicked).
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Mikan's execution is the worst in the series, full-stop. It's all uphill from here.
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I mean there are a lot of ways you could execute someone using a hospital theme, but maybe the devs thought it would look too brutal, so they went for something cartoony.

I don't think "too brutal" is something the devs take into account with some of the executions they've had in the series.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

I don't think "too brutal" is something the devs take into account with some of the executions they've had in the series.

Yeah. The first game start with a girl being skewered by spears, and follows that up with a kid being bludgeoned to death with 1,000 baseballs traveling about 100mph each.

That said, Im a bit surprised they didnt have Milan undergo unsuccessful surgery or a lobotomy while wide awake.
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I mean technically the first game started with Kyoko's dad being blasted off into space in a rocket ship and a smiling moon and sun looked at him before he came back down and fell out as a cartoony skeleton

Sooooo

tcaz2 posted...

I mean technically the first game started with Kyoko's dad being blasted off into space in a rocket ship and a smiling moon and sun looked at him before he came back down and fell out as a cartoony skeleton

Sooooo

What

The Popo posted...

That said, Im a bit surprised they didnt have Milan undergo unsuccessful surgery or a lobotomy while wide awake.

I mean that kind of stuff can be a lot more gory than the baseball or the spear stuff.

That was the intro to DR1. The blindfolded guy screaming in the rocket ship.
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MrSmartGuy posted...

That was the intro to DR1. The blindfolded guy screaming in the rocket ship.

I think I forgot that scene.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Nagito basically solo'd this case.

yesss one of the great nagito moments
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ZeldaTPLink posted...

Monokuma Theater on morse code. Anyone wants to tell me what he said so I don't have to google it?

I know Morse code and translated it on sight. I snorted a little as I was deciphering it because it was already looking painfully like "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine."

And oops, Makoto, Hajime, whatever. The dude who does the stuff. Hajime exhibits a little more personality at the beginning than Makoto, but they aren't very different as protagonists.
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ZeldaTPLink posted...

I think I forgot that scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwfVOILhg_Y" data-time="

Yeah I vaguely recall seeing that scene, but I guess I didn't understand it so my brain didn't register it on the RAM memory or something.

Yeah, it was weird to show us that before we get the context for anything else.
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Free time. I start with Sonia, and get a bunch of random tidbits on old Japanese TV shows. It's like their entire country had old Japanese films and shows as their only type of media for years.

Chiaki refuses free time because she's thinking. Uuuuh what?

I check the Monokuma archives. It's full of references fo DR1's Monokuma Theater. I gotta say, I liked DR1' theater more than DR2', it had customized voices and varying scenery.

Nekomaru next. He thinks Hajime has a natural talent for rugby. Coming from Nekomaru he might as well be right.

Thanks to plot, Fuyu is the only living character I don't have more than one crystal from. Time to fix that. I give him a pair of boots that lets him fake his height, and he doesn't enjoy them very much. But he still gives me his backstory and a crystal. Sounds like his family life is really rough and his parents are dicks, but he pretends it's okay because he's a yakuza. It seems he's a very sensitive guy behind that mafia masquerade. Good character.

The cast is literally dieing of hunger, and I'm here feeling underwhelmed that this game's motives are crap compared to the first one's. At least Monokuma is offering some kind of surprise, but I'm not very hyped.

Sakura's statue makes Akane feel pumped up. Well maybe after 10 games or so you might be as cool as Sakura, Akane.

Monokuma Tai Chi. Because.

Free time with Akane now, and she says she's happy because she has access to yummy food. Gameplay and story segregation at its best. Seems like she also has a rough past and an abusive family, too.

Next is Kazuichi. The kid loves making engines, but he has motion sickness. Weird.

Alright, time to see which perfectly kind and developed character will resort to murder because Monokuma forcibly tapped into their primal instincts and didn't give them a choice.

Hajime tries to go to the Final Murder Room or whatever it's called, but Best Girl Chiaki stops him. Someone else won't be that lucky, though.

Sonia is almost resorting to cannibalism. That's... uh... practical.

Nekomaru is dead and I'm officially not spoilered again. Gonna miss the dude, he was cool. Also I feel like the game could have taken a little longer to off him, and took more advantage of his robot-ness.

Now time to investigate and execute someone who had no choice.

No, seriously, this motive is that underwhelming. There is no contest between Hope and Despair to be had. Nothing to say about the human psyche. No choice to make. You just force the kids into survival mode and they will automatically kill each other.

At this point you might as well hang them all with ropes over a pool of sharks, give them handguns and tell them you will drop one of them every 15 minutes if they don't shoot each other. Maybe we'll actually see that in V3.

DR1 had to write deep stories to explain why people like Sayaka and Mondo became murderers. DR2 uses these cheap plot devices. Meh.

Haven't played the investigation yet, but here is what I'm thinking:

Kazuichi is the obvious suspect (I feel like I say that everytime). The victim was disassembled. And he has this whole "thinking Hajime is the traitor" plot that puts him in a position to want to kill to save himself. It's so obvious I think it's not him.

The less obvious option is Gundham. His only relevant moment in this chapter was having a hamster press the door button, but that is actually relevant as fuck. Because that means any puzzles regarding how the tower was opened by the killer get solved by trained hamsters who open doors. Plus, maybe those flowers aren't actually edible, and Gundham had to kill to save his hamsters.

I hate both of those setups, though. Because as I've said before, the whole case setup sucks. Losing Gundham to such a cheap plot device (forced starving) would be sad. If I am right, this might as well be the weakest case in the game, and I think that was supposed to be 2-3? It is also a very sharp drop in quality from 1-4, too.

So I'm smelling a twist. Maybe it's my Nekomaru = Mukuro theory, and we solve this by guessing who the mastermind is. But it's still Case 4 so it's a bit too soon for that? Maybe he killed himself to save the rest, which is something that makes sense and fits Nekomaru's chapter, except it's a copy of 1-4 plot so I don't see it.

We are approaching the point where cases become easy by lack of suspects. The characters have formed this tight family that are unlikely to kill each other. I don't see any of the rest as killers. It's time for plot to kick in so they start fighting the Mastermind or something.

Girls are unlikely because of gender imbalance. And individually, Chiaki feels like Kyoko 2.0 more and more every chapter, Akane is very obviously out, and Sonia has zero involvement with this chapter's plot or anything that links her. Maybe she killed to save Gundham's hamsters? Still doesn't feel like her.

As for the other boys, Hajime and Nagito have protagonism, and Fuyu also looks more unkillable every chapter, unless he dies by sacrifice or something.

I'm lost. I want there to be a twist but I don't see what it is.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Maybe it's my Nekomaru = Mukuro theory, and we solve this by guessing who the mastermind is.

Oh you meant his association with the mastermind. I was confused there for a second. Nekomaru and Mukuro are like the two most different characters.
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Without spoiling much, the idea that Monokuma's plans are more and more forced is actually going somewhere
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I have a rule for these topics where I refuse to discuss anything the player hasn't seen yet, but I will admit it was getting really hard not to say anything about the previous post. So while you still broke my rule, I'm kinda secretly happy you did.

That said, please no one else post about it so we can get back to 2-4 stuff.
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