Current Events > Do you think billionaires should exist?

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DirkDiggles
11/16/19 10:33:37 AM
#51:


If they made the money themselves, yeah.

If they inherited it, nope.
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Tyranthraxus
11/16/19 10:35:18 AM
#52:


Lost_All_Senses posted...
Lol. You really haven't been paying attention to the young rap stars


It was a reference to this Sci-Fi story with an unfortunately named planet (spoilers for story I guess?)
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/38326

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closetjpopfan
11/16/19 10:39:33 AM
#53:


Fuparulez posted...
It's worthless to argue because you're coming from an emotional position while I'm coming from a rational one backed by science and fact. Billionaires create jobs that put food on middle class tables. You can say working for Amazon sucks all you want. If it were THAT bad, 650,000 people wouldn't be working for them right now.

Except that you're absolutely, completely wrong.

Not a single billionaire has ever "created" a single job. Never has, never will.

Industry, progress, technology, science, development, welfare, all of the good of humanity, none of these ever has nor ever will come from money.

But you're a capitalist so you will probably never, ever understand this. Doesn't make it any less right.
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Loud_Pipes
11/16/19 10:42:55 AM
#54:


closetjpopfan posted...
Except that you're absolutely, completely wrong.

Not a single billionaire has ever "created" a single job. Never has, never will.

Industry, progress, technology, science, development, welfare, all of the good of humanity, none of these ever has nor ever will come from money.

But you're a capitalist so you will probably never, ever understand this. Doesn't make it any less right.


...how is it possible for someone to have access to all of mankind's knowledge at their fingertips and still say something this uneducated????
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DirkDiggles
11/16/19 10:43:03 AM
#55:


closetjpopfan posted...
Not a single billionaire has ever "created" a single job. Never has, never will.

Industry, progress, technology, science, development, welfare, all of the good of humanity, none of these ever has nor ever will come from money.


Bill Gates and Steve Jobs beg to differ.
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Damn_Underscore
11/16/19 10:43:12 AM
#56:


If you somehow liquefied the assets of all the billionaires in the US and took all their money, you would get about $2.5 trillion. That is a lot but it wouldn't even pay for the federal budget for one year.

Source (I used the averages for the ones that aren't specific): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_by_net_worth
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J E S U S
11/16/19 10:44:36 AM
#57:


Why should there be a limit on personal success?

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Broseph_Stalin
11/16/19 10:45:23 AM
#58:


closetjpopfan posted...
Industry, progress, technology, science, development, welfare, all of the good of humanity, none of these ever has nor ever will come from money.
lmao
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closetjpopfan
11/16/19 10:47:32 AM
#59:


It is amazing and a testament to the power of human invention and resourcefulness how much we have achieved DESPITE money.
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Kazi1212
11/16/19 10:49:06 AM
#60:


Broseph_Stalin posted...
closetjpopfan posted...
Industry, progress, technology, science, development, welfare, all of the good of humanity, none of these ever has nor ever will come from money.
lmao

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DirkDiggles
11/16/19 10:50:19 AM
#61:


closetjpopfan posted...
It is amazing and a testament to the power of human invention and resourcefulness how much we have achieved DESPITE money.


This guy has to be trolling. lol
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Antifar
11/16/19 10:52:13 AM
#62:


Doom_Art posted...
this is a silly argument to make and you know it

or if you don't know it, then i feel bad for ya

this idea that "if people can't horde dozens of billions of dollars there's no incentive to succeed" has never made any sense to me
Microsoft and Apple were both founded before the Reagan tax cuts on the wealthy!

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meralonne
11/16/19 10:54:47 AM
#63:


thanosibe posted...
The biggest problem with the anti-rich people is their assumption (and you know what they say about those) that the rich are morally obligated to fix Americas issues with their money.

The American government is who is obligated to fix Americas problems. Thats why we the people vote for the politicians we want to see make the changes that we want to see.

And the last point of lunacy with this thinking is where do we begin? Does my brother in law who makes more than 200k a year rich? Sure the fuck is to me. Should he give up his wealth because I dont make 250k a year? The government should not be taking peoples money. The government should be making sure that the rich got rich by their own means. As in not buying politicians or not being taxed equally as the rest of us. If indeed those are happening.

Explain to me how the government is supposed to fix jack shit without money.
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Lost_All_Senses
11/16/19 10:56:52 AM
#64:


Tyranthraxus posted...
It was a reference to this Sci-Fi story with an unfortunately named planet (spoilers for story I guess?)
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/38326


Oh, word. It's the only thing I read in this topic.

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MudKip_Master
11/16/19 11:01:53 AM
#65:


All you haters made these billionaires by supporting their products.
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WerewolfPaws
11/16/19 11:03:07 AM
#66:


No. No one deserves to hoard that much wealth.
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MarqueeSeries
11/16/19 11:03:32 AM
#67:


People having that much wealth (not necessarily money) are inherently a problem within a system where wealth is inseparable from power

Its inevitable that when people gather that much wealth, they will use it to exert influence over politicians, in order to stack the odds even more in their favor

And its really quite a scary situation, because to solve the issue you'd need to not only rely on said politicians to pass legislation against such interference, but also to abide by it. And why would those benefitting from the system willingly hand over the keys?
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Lost_All_Senses
11/16/19 11:04:06 AM
#68:


MudKip_Master posted...
All you haters made these billionaires by supporting their products.


I don't use Amazon and I don't own Apple products. What else?

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IShall_Run_Amok
11/16/19 11:06:08 AM
#69:


MudKip_Master posted...
All you haters made these billionaires by supporting their products.
Yes, that's how capitalism works. What kind of argument is this?

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darkprince45
11/16/19 11:10:56 AM
#70:


No one should give a fuck about what anyone elses wealth is. What someone has earned or received is theirs. I think its bullshit that people think the successful people need to pay for them
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DirkDiggles
11/16/19 11:10:58 AM
#71:


Lost_All_Senses posted...
MudKip_Master posted...
All you haters made these billionaires by supporting their products.


I don't use Amazon and I don't own Apple products. What else?


You go to Walmart or Target, don't you? Use a Smasung phone? You play Playstation, Xbox, or Nintendo games?
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WerewolfPaws
11/16/19 11:14:15 AM
#72:


darkprince45 posted...
No one should give a fuck about what anyone elses wealth is. What someone has earned or received is theirs. I think its bullshit that people think the successful people need to pay for them

I think its bullshit that you believe that.
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JebronLames
11/16/19 11:17:00 AM
#73:


darkprince45 posted...
No one should give a fuck about what anyone elses wealth is. What someone has earned or received is theirs. I think its bullshit that people think the successful people need to pay for them

are you against the estate tax?
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Tyranthraxus
11/16/19 11:20:02 AM
#74:


darkprince45 posted...
No one should give a fuck about what anyone elses wealth is. What someone has earned or received is theirs. I think its bullshit that people think the successful people need to pay for them
Well that's typically what we call a job. Problem is the jobs either aren't being created or aren't paying enough. Why should the mother who died working four different jobs had to do what she did? Why isn't just one job enough?

Why are people dying from exhaustion in Amazon Warehouses? Doesn't Bezos have enough money to hire thousands of more people so the employees can all work shorter shifts?

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MudKip_Master
11/16/19 11:23:36 AM
#75:


IShall_Run_Amok posted...
MudKip_Master posted...
All you haters made these billionaires by supporting their products.
Yes, that's how capitalism works. What kind of argument is this?


That is a question y'all need to be asking yourselves.

The billionaires made the products and services that happened to be the most useful and sought after for all of humanity.
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Lost_All_Senses
11/16/19 11:25:40 AM
#76:


DirkDiggles posted...
You go to Walmart or Target, don't you? Use a Smasung phone? You play Playstation, Xbox, or Nintendo games?


*Flips table* Im not playing your silly stupid games

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FursonaNonGrata
11/16/19 11:28:05 AM
#77:


MudKip_Master posted...
IShall_Run_Amok posted...
MudKip_Master posted...
All you haters made these billionaires by supporting their products.
Yes, that's how capitalism works. What kind of argument is this?


That is a question y'all need to be asking yourselves.

The billionaires made the products and services that happened to be the most useful and sought after for all of humanity.


They dont make them. The workers do and they take the profits from that labor.
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IShall_Run_Amok
11/16/19 11:28:36 AM
#78:


MudKip_Master posted...
That is a question y'all need to be asking yourselves.

The billionaires made the products and services that happened to be the most useful and sought after for all of humanity.
The billionaire didn't actually make the products or services. Also, that has next to nothing to do with what you said, so I repeat the question, what kind of argument is that?

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Ultima Dragon
11/16/19 11:45:46 AM
#79:


Damn_Underscore posted...
If you somehow liquefied the assets of all the billionaires in the US and took all their money, you would get about $2.5 trillion. That is a lot but it wouldn't even pay for the federal budget for one year.

Source (I used the averages for the ones that aren't specific): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_by_net_worth


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-offshore-wealth-idUSBRE86L03U20120722

Anyway, the main issue isn't simply having more money and more buying power (you jelly bro?) Excessive wealth enables you to be above the law, and in many instances to influence or shape the laws themselves. It enables you to squash further competition and innovation, and a number of other things that are detrimental to society and humanity as a whole.

Rich people aren't your friends, lol. I'd even argue that only a psychopath would desire more wealth than they could ever possibly hope to use in several lifetimes. The rest of us would be satisfied just having enough for our families to live and retire comfortably.
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nemu
11/16/19 11:47:15 AM
#80:


Yes. We dont need to cap wealth. We just need to close the loopholes so they actually pay their fair share.
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thanosibe
11/16/19 12:02:50 PM
#81:


FursonaNonGrata posted...
They dont make them. The workers do and they take the profits from that labor.
And they have the capital to pay the workers to do the work to make the product. Lots of good ideas may never make it to finished product because said person has no capital to get the idea off the ground, get it prototyped and patented.

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Damn_Underscore
11/16/19 2:03:15 PM
#82:


Ultima Dragon posted...
Damn_Underscore posted...
If you somehow liquefied the assets of all the billionaires in the US and took all their money, you would get about $2.5 trillion. That is a lot but it wouldn't even pay for the federal budget for one year.

Source (I used the averages for the ones that aren't specific): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_by_net_worth


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-offshore-wealth-idUSBRE86L03U20120722


I think that includes all rich people in the world. Even then it wouldn't be enough to pay for Elizabeth Warren's Medicare for All plan.

The point is rich people have a lot of money obviously but taking away their ability to make more money (to the point where you ask "should billionaires exist") is not conducive to having a rich nation.
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StealthRock
11/16/19 2:45:17 PM
#83:


Doom_Art posted...
StealthRock posted...
If billionaires should be forced to give up their wealth because we make less, then we should all distribute our wealth to those less fortunate. So kiss your smartphone good bye and give it to a starving kid in India or something. Its only fair.
this is a silly argument to make and you know it

or if you don't know it, then i feel bad for ya

Broseph_Stalin posted...
So yes we should have a system that offers incentive to innovate.


this idea that "if people can't horde dozens of billions of dollars there's no incentive to succeed" has never made any sense to me


Tell me why ita silly then, smart guy.

Compared to much of the world your ass is privledged as hell. They look at YOU as the billionaires. Wealth is mostly relative.

Why shouldnt we give something to them? Do you and only you have the authority to draw the line as to what is considered too much? As far as mostarw concerned, having access to lomitless food is too much. Being able to shit post online is the icing on the cake that many in this world can never dream of
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gamer167
11/16/19 2:50:16 PM
#84:


Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow!?

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StealthRock
11/16/19 2:51:07 PM
#85:


Anteaterking posted...
StealthRock posted...
Because attacking them honestly is unfair

If billionaires should be forced to give up their wealth because we make less, then we should all distribute our wealth to those less fortunate. So kiss your smartphone good bye and give it to a starving kid in India or something. Its only fair.


*People propose a place to draw the line*

"wHeRe WoUlD wE dRaW tHe LiNe?"

Im saying that your idea of the line and someone else's are much different
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averagejoel
11/16/19 3:13:35 PM
#86:


Loud_Pipes posted...
AlephZero posted...
any wealth over $10k should be redistributed


This is closer to what the far left believes tbqh. They are starting with billionaires because the moral outrage is easier to fabricate, but we all know they want to go after millionaires too. And eventually anyone who is not on the governmental teat in general.

It is a central tenant of far leftism.

first of all, no. wealth redistribution has nothing to do with leftist ideologies. they're generally about preventing wealth like that from accumulating in the first place. very different central idea

second of all: *tenet
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Lil_Bit83
11/16/19 4:01:02 PM
#87:


Why shouldn't they be allowed to?
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emmo
11/16/19 4:04:10 PM
#88:


Rabble, rabble...argument!
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#89
Post #89 was unavailable or deleted.
EvenSpoonier
11/16/19 4:39:28 PM
#90:


I don't think the concept of "should" applies. Not everything is a matter of good and evil. Let the tall poppies grow.

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Ivany2008
11/16/19 4:44:28 PM
#91:


If you've busted your ass and created a successful product then damn right they should exist. That said, I'm against people who are rich by association, ie money given to them by being a family member or business partner without working for it, or guys who sell a crappy product that looks amazing but uses inferior parts, ie Beats by Dre(Apparently Apple now).

But all in modesty. If Jeff Bezos is worth 111 Billion dollars, maybe that should be cut down to 50 Billion, with any excess money being donated to the country to get it out of debt, though I know something like that would be... what's the word.... abused.
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Anteaterking
11/16/19 5:17:23 PM
#92:


StealthRock posted...
Im saying that your idea of the line and someone else's are much different


I just think that "If we're going to have billionaires pay a bunch more money, then everyone should have to give all their money to third world countries" is a dumb stance.

Ivany2008 posted...
That said, I'm against people who are rich by association, ie money given to them by being a family member or business partner without working for it, or guys who sell a crappy product that looks amazing but uses inferior parts, ie Beats by Dre(Apparently Apple now).


This is inherent to the existence of billionaires though. Most of them have earned enough money that they aren't able to reasonably spend it within their lifetime, which inherently means that it's going to family members, etc. who didn't "earn it".
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StealthRock
11/16/19 6:49:10 PM
#93:


Anteaterking posted...
StealthRock posted...
Im saying that your idea of the line and someone else's are much different


I just think that "If we're going to have billionaires pay a bunch more money, then everyone should have to give all their money to third world countries" is a dumb stance.

Ivany2008 posted...
That said, I'm against people who are rich by association, ie money given to them by being a family member or business partner without working for it, or guys who sell a crappy product that looks amazing but uses inferior parts, ie Beats by Dre(Apparently Apple now).


This is inherent to the existence of billionaires though. Most of them have earned enough money that they aren't able to reasonably spend it within their lifetime, which inherently means that it's going to family members, etc. who didn't "earn it".

No, its not a dumb stance. Perhaps you jist are not quick enough to get it, but most wealth is relative. A person making 200000 a year is poor compared to Jeff Bazos. Likewise, you are rich compared to someone living in true poverty. What have you done to earn you position other than be born lucky? And why should you be allowed to keep resources in excess of what is required to survive and billionaires be forced to give away all they have?
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darkbuster
11/16/19 7:08:10 PM
#94:


I've always found the concept of mega rich people who have more wealth than they could ever hope to use in multiple lifetimes, rather dubious, but the real reason I'm against the mega rich is because it gives them a disproportionate level of power over others, with little obligation or oversight. The ability to buy politicians, political policies, & bully those with less resources into submission contributes to a lot of the worst issues with the mega rich.

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DevsBro
11/16/19 7:16:34 PM
#95:


Garioshi posted...
A billion dollars is more money than you can possibly spend in a lifetime.
lolno

I can think of an easy way to spend much more than that in one purchase--simply buy the Empire State Building. It was last sold for just under $2B, and since it's not to my knowledge currently on the market, you'd have to put in a high offer.

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MarqueeSeries
11/16/19 8:25:50 PM
#96:


StealthRock posted...
Anteaterking posted...
StealthRock posted...
Im saying that your idea of the line and someone else's are much different


I just think that "If we're going to have billionaires pay a bunch more money, then everyone should have to give all their money to third world countries" is a dumb stance.

Ivany2008 posted...
That said, I'm against people who are rich by association, ie money given to them by being a family member or business partner without working for it, or guys who sell a crappy product that looks amazing but uses inferior parts, ie Beats by Dre(Apparently Apple now).


This is inherent to the existence of billionaires though. Most of them have earned enough money that they aren't able to reasonably spend it within their lifetime, which inherently means that it's going to family members, etc. who didn't "earn it".

No, its not a dumb stance. Perhaps you jist are not quick enough to get it, but most wealth is relative. A person making 200000 a year is poor compared to Jeff Bazos. Likewise, you are rich compared to someone living in true poverty. What have you done to earn you position other than be born lucky? And why should you be allowed to keep resources in excess of what is required to survive and billionaires be forced to give away all they have?

no one said anything about billionaires giving away all they have, or anyone having only what they need to survive except for you
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closetjpopfan
11/17/19 10:30:23 AM
#97:


StealthRock posted...
ThyCorndog posted...
Defending billionaires is an emotional argument in itself. Why do you care so much about them if not emotion?

Because attacking them honestly is unfair

If billionaires should be forced to give up their wealth because we make less, then we should all distribute our wealth to those less fortunate. So kiss your smartphone good bye and give it to a starving kid in India or something. Its only fair.

This is actually a very good, perfectly valid point.

A couple things though. First of all, giving my smartphone to a starving kid in India isn't going to solve the problem. The kid in India would have to sell the smartphone, to get money, to buy food, and he's going to be competing against his next door neighbor starving kid in India who's trying to sell your smartphone. So the solution is not that easy, nor dramatic.

Perhaps this whole idea of wealth redistribution only has so much merit. I'm not saying anything for or against it, but if you want to really solve a problem you change the causes, you don't just reverse the effects. Hey, at least it's addressing the problem. Anything less is honestly beyond the pale.

Last but not least, you really should try to use your brain more and your emotions less with these things. Nothing ruins your argument more than when you start with something like "People are bitter and jealous of billionaires".

When Bernie Sanders says that there should be no billionaires he's not fucking jealous of billionaires or resents them because he thinks they're bad people. He's just very correctly pointing out that we live in an unfair system that gives rise to huge inequality. Fosters, enforces and perpetuates huge inequality.
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JebronLames
11/17/19 10:34:35 AM
#98:


I agree with the, giving your smartphone to a starving kid in india comment. I know some people on here thought it was a bad argument but it isn't
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closetjpopfan
11/17/19 11:28:31 AM
#99:


JebronLames posted...
I agree with the, giving your smartphone to a starving kid in india comment. I know some people on here thought it was a bad argument but it isn't

Right, it's a good point, logically speaking, but by that point the argument has already taken all the wrong turns it can. Kind of like the problem that gave rise to it.
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averagejoel
11/17/19 11:48:26 AM
#100:


closetjpopfan posted...
JebronLames posted...
I agree with the, giving your smartphone to a starving kid in india comment. I know some people on here thought it was a bad argument but it isn't

Right, it's a good point, logically speaking, but by that point the argument has already taken all the wrong turns it can. Kind of like the problem that gave rise to it.

it is not a good point, because "we make less" is not why people are against the existence of billionaires
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