Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 4

(+) Yeah! (+)

Part 3 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77792444

In case you stumbled upon this topic, or forgot I am still playing (understandable given how long I was gone), I'm now in the middle of episode 6.

And because I won't be playing for these 2 days, I figured I would quickly do a ranking on episodes based on music. All I have to do is count my Umineko playlist, more songs = I like that episodes' music more.

Episode 1 - 9 songs
Episode 2 - 4 songs
Episode 3 - 9 songs
Episode 4 - 8 songs
Episode 5 - 13 songs

5>>>1=3>4>>>2

Episode 6 isn't doing well at the moment, feels like there's only 1 song I would put in my playlist.

Everyone is welcome to put up their own rankings. Include episodes 6-8 if you want, without details on those of course

Feels bad to have no reaction at all
Well I dug this hole and have to live with it.

Continuing where we left off, Battler joins countless other characters in knowing something and refusing to reveal what it is. No wait, he slips up and says it was Beatrice's wish to 'leave the game board'. The Beatrice who represents 'the rules of the game' can't ever leave the board, so maybe it's her wish to die and be reborn and another Beatrice that can leave?

I starting to think I will have to treat their 2 Beatrices as separate characters for rankings. They're way too different, appear on the screen together, and both are included in the character menu.

Not using detective authority was Bern's idea in the first place and now she's laying the blame on Erika. Apparently she doesn't like it if the game doesn't end in the most violent possible way even if she won. This has less to do with boredom and most to do with her being a evil psychopath.

i couldn't tell you which music came from which episodes, so i had nothing to say

dunno how demoralizing Erika is going to help Bern get a less boring game and outcome. If I'm watching a competition or a sports match, I would certainly prefer two evenly matched sides duking it out than one side steamrolling the other.

Ok this is highly unusual. The Erika I know will never thank anyone or show weakness to Battler. This has got to be a ruse to get the sticky tape from Battler.

Of course it is. This is the same as that North Wind and Sun strategy Beatrice pulled in Episode 3, I can't believe Battler never learnt his lesson and fell for this crap AGAIN, ugh. Still the same old Battler, Game Master or not.

There's still a possibility that Battler is aware of that trick and is pretending to fall for it. But I am not getting my hopes up.

Love is a zero-sum game huh
Not sure if it's 'zero-sum' if 1 pair wins and 2 pair loses. It's more like... negative sum?

This trial of love has influence on what happens on the game board, but I am still struggling to see the importance of this over the main Erika vs Battler fight, other than being told 'it is important'.

What exactly do they mean by fight to the death
Are they just killing the pieces? Or the... whatever they are now?
And what happens if someone wins?
I imagine Battler and Beatrice will end up winning anyway.

I think they're going to kill off each other's pieces, to tie in with the murders on the board and preventing those 6 from being immune to dying there.
At least one of Kanon, Shannon, George, Jessica will die on the 2nd twilight.

Few pairs I can think of
George/Shannon
Jessica/Kanon
George/Hideyoshi
Jessica/Krauss

Want to explain why but I'm not going to. These deaths don't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

Hideoyoshi isn't exactly too smart in letting Erika go. None of the people suspected Erika one tiny bit, even if she doesn't have the detective authority.

The hell is this Purupuru Piko, Lambda said something like that earlier and now Erika says it too
Is it some sort of reference I'm not getting at all

I was thinking why did Erika wanted Battler to say 'everyone else' and eliminating the possibility of using unknown persons as an argument. One of Dlanor's assistants knows the reason and to no one's surprise, refuses to divulge it like Battler or Featherine or whoever is before them.

I do have some ideas this time though. First, she doesn't want anyone moving the bodies or interfering with the crime scene, like how all the bodies disappeared in episode 5. Second, she is looking out for the second twilight; now that there can't be extra people, the only possible culprits are those now sealed inside the rooms, and it will be very easy to expose them if a murder does occur while she is off investigating.

It is, for now, a defensive move to make the second twilight harder for Battler, which is similar to my 2nd point in the last post.
I'm not sure how I feel every time my theories are quickly proved more or less correct. It's nice to have solved a mystery, but mysteries that get confirmed that fast is never a particularly important mystery and it's as if I've wasted my time thinking so hard about it.

These debates and mindgames are the one of my favourite parts of Umineko. Compared to Beatrice vs Battler (which look silly now except near the end), Battler vs Erika is much more calm and calculating and you have both sides' careful thought processes on how to outwit their opponent. You can see Battler getting better each game and now I get to watch an exciting match between an experienced and a naturally talented player (ignoring how Battler fell for a simple trick again, or how he is going to lose).

If that trick wasn't revealed it would look like they are bonding over this game, just like Beatrice and Battler did.

Battler made it possible to retroactively seal doors and don't even ask about it? And then just sent that letter without even considering the possibility, what kind of game master is this.

Also I thought that the 6 deaths are already announced in red, but apparently not

Seems like Erika isn't playing to win the normal way, but to get an logic error out of Battler

Type 1 magic: A claim, lie or illusion, no observers, cannot be done by humans, didn't happen at all.
Type 2 magic: A trick, only the result and not the process is observed, can be done by humans, did happen.

I think it is confirmed that magic in fact DOES NOT EXIST in Umineko. Feels weird to have something that big revealed without any fanfare in the middle of Episode 6.

It was not until around early Episode 5 did I seriously consider magic doesn't exist after all no matter how real it looks. Might be a bit late but at least it's not, like, right now. When did you all realize that magic is fake? I'm sure many have got it much earlier than I did.

Mentioning logic error so many times, this is totally how Battler is going to lose. Rewriting the game over and over will only make it easier to get contradictions. Making the witch side commit this error is only possible if the human player is very familiar with the game rules, I'm liking this new element.

By the way... it's too much of a coincidence that the letter was about Battler's corpse and Erika just happened to seal that very room. Dlanor hasn't said it in red either. I think Erika might be bluffing and just made it up after seeing the letter.

And I'm sure that Beatrice had encountered possible logic errors in the past games and changed the story, but Battler never knew about it.

It hit me that Kinzo's ceremony in the first 4 games were Beatrice's 'settings' or 'themes' such that there is a reason for the killings to happen in that universe. Not that Kinzo isn't batshit crazy, it is in-character for him to do such a thing if given the chance.

The 1st episode should also be one of Beatrice's games right, only shown from the piece's perspective.
Then how did Battler get into Purgatory?

Maybe everyone died way before the 1st game and these episodes are just stories told later.
Maybe these are all claims and lies, the 1st type of magic. Nothing happened on Rokkenjima, no one died.

Don't think I would like it if the ending is '99% or 100% of the game never happened, not even tricks!'

Battler has drawn a lot of experience from fighting Beatrice but his biggest mistake is to assume that Erika will fight with the same attitude. He doesn't seem to notice or care too much that Erika is using all sorts of dirty tricks.

Battler is being played like a fiddle, handing out advantages, making all the wrong moves, and listening to all her proposals. I don't know why he insisted on making the body disappear, or decide to do an endgame right away, even if this is EXACTLY WHAT ERIKA IS GOING FOR. Hot damn this is infuriating.

The most logical move here is to keep the body inside the room and change the story such that someone else did it. He was literally told is it acceptable to change the story around. But he went ahead and chose a move 100 times more risky without even thinking how he could possibly make it work. This isn't an Ace Attorney game, he can't say something stupid and expect to get away with it later.

Ok maybe he can keep lying and making shit up on the fly. Doesn't change that Erika is prepared while Battler is not, and that I got shown in the very beginning that Battler is going to lose. Way to lower my excitement by spoiling the outcome.
And it's the endgame... right now? Given how long I've played, I figured it's near the end of the main part of the episode. Seems like the events on Rokkenjima, and that love trial, is going to end inconclusively.

The guest room was searched with 'one exception'. I'm guessing is the closet (wardrobe?), it was significant last episode after all

The bathroom was checked with some trouble and nothing came out of it yet. How does this relate to the current game? Is Battler going to claim that the hot water and pressure melted the corpse?

Yup it's the closet. I'm going to make a prediction too, that Battler will say he is not in the room at all and left while the seal is still there, and had to explain how this is possible next.

Not exactly what I had predicted.
'Battler left the room while Erika was busy with the shower'. It would be a good move - if only Erika hadn't been beaten by such a move last episode. She must have some counter move prepared already.

It's like, Erika instructing Battler to dig his own grave and he is following every instruction obediently.
I take it back, this is hardly an even game, Battler is throwing the game on his own.
And yeah, that person I keep seeing locked in the guest room in this episode has to be Battler.

'You are either going to be a hero or a madman'
I have every reason to believe Battler is going to end up a madman.

Right as Battler is making his second move... I'm going to stop now
Yes it's a bad place but I've got to sleep

Time to see how Battler fucks up

Lambda is weirdly concerned about Battler losing. She's not as annoying as Bernkatsel anymore, but she did make a lot of evil faces and I keep having a feeling she is pretending

There's a lot of talking before the reveal... don't tell me Battler really has a solution.

No fucking way. She has to be trolling, otherwise what should I make of the trapped and wedding scenes???

For real now
How do you escape that closed room
Did Battler tear off the tape of the chain and stuck it back after he left? This would be easy in real life but is he allowed to do that in the game???

That was a good solution, I didn't even consider the other 'dead bodies' -
yeah that was too good to be true. Lambda isn't trolling, but that didn't work anyway

Maybe the chain was taped in a way that you can't even lock or unlock it from the inside?

This is a game where people have their faces plowed and heads smashed apart and still cannot be confirmed dead, why is decapitation an exemption, even bodies like that need an official confirmation
And how is Battler so oblivious to what is happening inside the mansion? What kind of game master doesn't know, or doesn't pay attention to his own pieces

No one died in this game at all. That's more like the Battler we know.
Now I'm more confused what was the point of that love trial.

It's so maddening to watch.
On one hand Erika's voice acting seems purposely designed to be as irritating as possible.
On the other hand Battler is letting his emotions take over again and screaming and grasping at straws that are so obviously wrong.

I'm certain this WILL be a way to solve this locked room mystery down the line. Not going to think too much into it now because I want to keep going quickly

Nah Lambda, I think it's be an improvement fine without Bern and Erika around.
If I never want to see or hear the voice of a character ever again, then for me, that character is bad, and that's why they will be ranked at the very bottom.

These games have happened all over the place. Oh wow, I had thought about Beatrice's games stretching way back, but this is on a whole another scale.
Like... every witch has their own game? And humans become witches by playing the game? And nearly all of them fail and are trapped forever?
I'm not sure if I should still take these literally.

And building on the nature the magic, witches are really 'magical', they are just so good at tricking others that it becomes indistinguishable from magic. Beatrice used locked room mysteries to build 'magic', there are also other ways.

Made me think how good Beatrice is to have lasted 4 games, even more if she tried. Battler didn't have a chance.