Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots

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Jakyl25
01/15/20 11:10:33 AM
#1:


Honestly why are people still watching these Dem debates?
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HeroDelTiempo17
01/15/20 11:11:48 AM
#2:


boredom and to get mad

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xp1337
01/15/20 11:12:12 AM
#3:


Jakyl25 posted...
Honestly why are people still watching these Dem debates?
We're all secretly waiting for Michelle Obama to make a WWE entrance mid-debate. You can't miss history!

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Jakyl25
01/15/20 11:13:48 AM
#4:


https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1217228960964038658?s=21

Even if you WANT a surveillance state where Apple grants the government access to this information, I cant imagine youre okay with framing it as do it because we do favors for you.
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Ashethan
01/15/20 11:13:56 AM
#5:


We watch the debates to see who screws up the most.

Apparently the answer is Amy Kloubacher. Amy Kloubacher. Congratulations.

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ChaosTonyV4
01/15/20 11:21:41 AM
#6:


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/14/trump-bernie-sanders-rally-warren-098969

Trump: I don't believe Bernie said a woman can't win the presidency

Trump vying for that Bernie VP spot, thank you Mr President.


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Jakyl25
01/15/20 11:23:38 AM
#7:


I feel like Trump mistakenly thinks hed have an easy time against Bernie
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ChaosTonyV4
01/15/20 11:25:26 AM
#8:


Jakyl25 posted...
I feel like Trump mistakenly thinks hed have an easy time against Bernie

I actually just saw an article that (reportedly) Trump seems the most afraid of Bernie because he knows "people like free stuff".

But I could see it being either way.

Let the Republicans make the same mistake the Democrats did for Trump in 2016, I'm fine with that.

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xp1337
01/15/20 11:26:54 AM
#9:


I feel like he's just re-running the 2016 playbook where he talks up Sanders so he can try to disaffect his voters/make a play for them after Biden wins. Really my only doubt is that it implies a level of strategic thinking (read: any) I can't possibly attribute to him, but maybe he's just literally re-running 2016 and would be doing this on reflex even if Sanders weren't running.

Hell, you had McCarthy out there with "DNC rigging against Sanders again!" the other day.

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Ashethan
01/15/20 11:29:54 AM
#10:


He's not even talking up Sanders if you read it. He literally says Bernie is a 'nasty guy'. Tony's obviously being tongue in cheek.

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xp1337
01/15/20 11:32:32 AM
#11:


oh. darn.

the one time i didn't feel like reading the article.

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Ashethan
01/15/20 11:48:51 AM
#12:


To continue from the last topic...

Christians have never been marginalized. They only feel like they have been. Yes, the 'nuclear family' is dying, but they're free to have a nuclear family if they want one. They don't have to have an abortion, and they don't have to marry someone of the same sex if they don't want to. Their rights have not been infringed because of their identity as Christian.

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Wanglicious
01/15/20 12:01:49 PM
#13:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
do you think that women politicians have never once had to defend their status as women and it's weird she had an argument?

or that, given the story has already leaked, it is strange that Warren correctly anticipated it would come up during the debate and came up with a speech to deflect the issue? Should she instead have had no planned response and just stumbled around on stage?

That's not coincidental - it's logical! Believe Warren personally leaked it if you want but her response at the debate doesnt support it being a masterful 5d chess move one way or the other.

sure they have, and i figured he was just being candid in whatever convo they had. said as much yesterday.
the coincidence is that a year old private conversation happened to be known to her staffers, happened to be leaked to the press the day before the final debate, happened to be against one of her main rivals, and it happened to be used to pivot the negative into a positive using odd knowledge and lines meant for soundbites.

this isn't saying anything is particularly masterful, just means that the intent was always to bring up her identity as a woman and use it to leverage votes for her while siphoning votes from her opponents. bear in mind this wasn't my opinion until she spun it that way in the debate. up to that point my belief was that she wasn't playing that game, that it's a misunderstanding or just something else unintended. once she did and started rattling off random bits of info and did a line that was clearly rehearsed - nah, she knew. like her dumbfounded look when Bernie responded plays at a sharp contrast between a Warren who knew what she was saying and how she was going to say it and a Warren who doesn't. if she figured out exactly how to say all that info with less than a day of prep, congrats to her, though i don't think i give her that credit.

Jakyl25 posted...
Honestly why are people still watching these Dem debates?

i generally just go for clips and stuff afterwards but figured i'd tune in.
also fuck no, i don't want apple, google, or any company to give in to that. allowing the government a back door is a firm no.

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Wanglicious
01/15/20 12:07:11 PM
#14:


Ashethan posted...
To continue from the last topic...

Christians have never been marginalized. They only feel like they have been. Yes, the 'nuclear family' is dying, but they're free to have a nuclear family if they want one. They don't have to have an abortion, and they don't have to marry someone of the same sex if they don't want to. Their rights have not been infringed because of their identity as Christian.

i'll be honest, i'm not sure where you're going with this. it's drifted from the subject matter of "using the __ card" to... i'm not sure? best i'm getting is that you don't like it when politicians use their religion as a positive identifying factor because you don't feel like they're oppressed but you do find politicians using identifying aspects of them which have been traditionally marginalized as positives? it's still the same concept of using __ card, you just favor one more than the other, there's no objection to that.

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HeroDelTiempo17
01/15/20 12:18:33 PM
#15:


Wanglicious posted...
if she figured out exactly how to say all that info with less than a day of prep, congrats to her, though i don't think i give her that credit.

Uh, she's a politician. This is kind of exactly what they do. That's why they have campaign staff and speechwriters.

If you have difficulty believing that, I'll also point out that Bernie referenced specific old videos of himself and arguments that had been popping ul on Twitter in his debate response. Bernie himself is not going to be up to date on Twitter drama because he is an old man that has no apps on his phone, but his staff sure would be and probably briefed him on all of it.

Wanglicious posted...


the coincidence is that a year old private conversation happened to be known to her staffers, happened to be leaked to the press the day before the final debate, happened to be against one of her main rivals, and it happened to be used to pivot the negative into a positive using odd knowledge and lines meant for soundbites.

Oh I think the leak was intentional by Warren's campaign in response to the manufactured drama the day before, but her statements makes me think it was by rogue staffers and everything else has been damage control. Still reflects badly on her campaign for sure.

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ChaosTonyV4
01/15/20 12:39:21 PM
#16:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...


Oh I think the leak was intentional by Warren's campaign in response to the manufactured drama the day before, but her statements makes me think it was by rogue staffers and everything else has been damage control. Still reflects badly on her campaign for sure.

I think this was definitely true, but also the snub at the end where she refused to shake his hand was pretty fucking bizarre.

Like, you're that mad NOW about something he said two years ago?

Something that when it first came out you released a statement saying "Look, it's not important, we're still friends and we have a ton in common"?

That is the weirdest part to me, and it's part of what pushed me to thinking this might end up working in Bernie's favor, I've seen plenty of pro-Warren people on Facebook saying that she's clearly in the wrong on this.

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HeroDelTiempo17
01/15/20 12:42:10 PM
#17:


I refuse to read anything into the handshake thing. It's whatever.

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CelesMyUserName
01/15/20 12:42:14 PM
#18:


oh my God handshakegate should not be here for fucks sake this played up drama just keeps getting dumber and dumber

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TotallyNotMI
01/15/20 12:45:15 PM
#19:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/quiz-which-candidate-agrees-with-me/

Warren: 12
Sanders: 10
Steyer: 9
Yang: 8
Bloomberg: 6
Klobuchar: 6
Biden: 5
Buttigieg: 5
Gabbard: 5

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Kinglicious
01/15/20 12:52:06 PM
#20:


Your options are either Biden wins due to Bloomberg and Steyer hypnosis draining everyone else or a handshake takes over impeachment and possibly murder for news this week.

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ChaosTonyV4
01/15/20 12:54:18 PM
#21:


Here's mine, surprising no one:

Sanders: 18
Warren: 12
Steyer: 9
Gabbard: 8
Buttigieg: 7
Yang: 6
Bloomberg: 4
Biden: 3
Klobuchar: 3


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Peace___Frog
01/15/20 12:55:03 PM
#22:


I would happily take Biden winning if it meant people focus on the literal attempted murder by the actual president / wannabe-mob-boss

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ChaosTonyV4
01/15/20 1:00:26 PM
#23:


Peace___Frog posted...
I would happily take Biden winning if it meant people focus on the literal attempted murder by the actual president / wannabe-mob-boss

I have zero interest in discussing that shit when his supporters could not care less.

I posted the link about it from earlier in the big Right Wing Facebook group I frequent, and this was 100% of the responses:

It is literally pointless to talk about when 50% of the population could not care if their guy was a literal mob boss, we need to just focus on the election.

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red sox 777
01/15/20 1:02:00 PM
#24:


Trump knew Bernie was his strongest possible opposition in 2016 and he knows it now. In 2016, Trump went all-in on Hillary winning the nomination (by talking up Bernie at all opportunities) knowing that if Bernie won the nomination Trump probably lost no matter what. Trump is in a tougher position now because he thinks that while Bernie is still the strongest Dem nominee, he also thinks that he can beat him (or any of the others). So it's harder to decide what to do.

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CelesMyUserName
01/15/20 1:03:48 PM
#25:


yknow what s literally pointless to talk about is a god damn failed handshake

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Ashethan
01/15/20 1:07:42 PM
#26:


Wanglicious posted...
i'll be honest, i'm not sure where you're going with this. it's drifted from the subject matter of "using the __ card" to... i'm not sure? best i'm getting is that you don't like it when politicians use their religion as a positive identifying factor because you don't feel like they're oppressed but you do find politicians using identifying aspects of them which have been traditionally marginalized as positives? it's still the same concept of using __ card, you just favor one more than the other, there's no objection to that.

Mainly I find it unfair how "She's playing the woman card!" will be called out much quicker than the "He's playing the Christian Card!" Especially when women have been marginalized (and you can fit so many other groups in there, from atheists and jews to gay people and hispanics), while Christians definitely haven't. (Even if they feel oppressed because they can no longer force their beliefs on others)

I mean I had a neighbor tell me sometime back that he doesn't think a woman could run the country because women aren't stable enough. It's an idea that still needs to be fought against, so when women run for President they kind of have to deal with this sort of shit while almost nobody would probably ever say "I don't think a Christian can run the country because Christians aren't stable enough."

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Wanglicious
01/15/20 1:09:23 PM
#27:


Yang: 14
Gabbard: 11
Biden: 10
Bloomberg: 10
Buttigieg: 9
Steyer: 9
Klobuchar: 8
Sanders: 8
Warren: 5

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HashtagSEP
01/15/20 1:09:48 PM
#28:


Warren: 14
Steyer: 13
Sanders: 12
Klobuchar: 10
Buttigieg: 9
Bloomberg: 8
Yang: 8
Biden: 6
Gabbard: 5

Legitimately surprised on Steyer being so high. Though there's one I waffle on a bit that'd change it to Sanders: 13, Warren: 13, Steyer: 12, but that's still mostly in line.

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Ashethan
01/15/20 1:12:51 PM
#29:


Warren 16
Sanders 14
Steyer 10
Yang 9
Gabbard 8
Buttigieg 7
Kloubuchar 6
Bloomberg 5
Biden 4

Mostly expected. Surprised Yang isn't higher than Steyer.

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Wanglicious
01/15/20 1:16:46 PM
#30:


hm. if i change the one i waffle on i end up having Yang go down to 13 as Gabbard gets shuffled a little lower but mostly the same.

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HeroDelTiempo17
01/15/20 1:23:39 PM
#31:


Warren 16
Sanders 14
Steyer 11
Yang 9
Pete 8
Klob 6
Gabbard 6
Bloomberg 4
Biden 2

Steyer: ok after all but should still probably just go away

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Reg
01/15/20 1:25:36 PM
#32:


Warren 14
Sanders 13
Yang 9
Steyer 9
Bloomberg 7
Klobuchar 7
Gabbard 7
Biden 6
Buttigieg 6

Seems accurate I think?

And yeah guys I've said Steyer's voice is mostly in the right place for a reason (and I know this isn't even the first time I've said it LOL)
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pyresword
01/15/20 1:28:43 PM
#33:


Warren 12
Yang 12
Klobuchar 10
Sanders 10
Biden 9
Bloomberg 9
Buttigieg 9
Steyer 9
Gabbard 8

I don't know exactly what to take away from this but I guess my gut feeling that I had a preference towards Yang wasn't wrong!

I guess I really evaluate all Democratic candidates roughly equally.
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red sox 777
01/15/20 1:33:27 PM
#34:


Ashethan posted...
Mainly I find it unfair how "She's playing the woman card!" will be called out much quicker than the "He's playing the Christian Card!" Especially when women have been marginalized (and you can fit so many other groups in there, from atheists and jews to gay people and hispanics), while Christians definitely haven't. (Even if they feel oppressed because they can no longer force their beliefs on others)

I mean I had a neighbor tell me sometime back that he doesn't think a woman could run the country because women aren't stable enough. It's an idea that still needs to be fought against, so when women run for President they kind of have to deal with this sort of shit while almost nobody would probably ever say "I don't think a Christian can run the country because Christians aren't stable enough."

It's hard to play the Christian card when all the other candidates are Christian too. That said, Trump has very successfully played the Christian card without being Christian himself (based on everything he says, it doesn't look like he actually believes).

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banananor
01/15/20 3:05:40 PM
#35:


this poll thing is kind of weird for me. it needs an "i'm don't know and am ignorant on this subject" option for all the questions

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Grimlyn
01/15/20 3:15:16 PM
#36:


Warren: 14-17 (16)
Sanders 12-15 (14)
Yang 10-11 (10)
Steyer 8-10 (10)
Buttigieg 7 (7)
Klobuchar 5-6 (6)
Gabbard 5-6 (6)
Bloomberg 2-5 (3)
Biden 2-3 (2)

Brackets is my final result, but also including range if I toggle some alternate acceptable answers for.

Jesus Biden, the only points he gets are the obvious gimmes like abortion, or an I don't really care waffle

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Dancedreamer
01/15/20 3:26:27 PM
#37:


Sanders - 15
Warren - 15
Yang - 10
Steyer - 9
Pete - 7
Gabbard - 6
Klobuchar - 5
Biden - 2
Bloomberg - 2

Biden and Bloomberg very low. Not surprised a bit.


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Grimlyn
01/15/20 3:39:13 PM
#38:


so reading the number as how agreeable the Dem field is to everyone

pyresword: 88
Wang: 84
Ashe: 79
Reg: 78
SEP: 77
Hero: 76
Gmun: 74
Dance: 71
Tony: 70
MI: 66

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TotallyNotMI
01/15/20 3:41:30 PM
#39:


That's...very surprising to me.

But I'm still all in 'blue no matter who'.

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HeroDelTiempo17
01/15/20 3:42:30 PM
#40:


banananor posted...
this poll thing is kind of weird for me. it needs an "i'm don't know and am ignorant on this subject" option for all the questions

There's also some that are way too complicated for the format. I got an immigration one asking about deportations with 4 answers and they all sucked at least a little. So it's just a toss up.

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Grimlyn
01/15/20 3:44:11 PM
#41:


not surprising to me given how Bernie & Warren are my only (serious) hopes and I'm indeed turned off by a lot of the others

but yeah still very much ultimate vote blue because duh, not that I can vote!

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
There's also some that are way too complicated for the format. I got an immigration one asking about deportations with 4 answers and they all sucked at least a little. So it's just a toss up.
definitely the most obvious waffle I had that I actually cared about an answer for

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HashtagSEP
01/15/20 3:44:35 PM
#42:


Right in the middle aww yeah

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Grimlyn
01/15/20 3:48:49 PM
#43:


kinda fun that the max/min separation is 22 (radius of 11) and then that the max/min range is congruent mod 11 so we get the 66/77/88 min/mid/max points

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Dancedreamer
01/15/20 3:59:35 PM
#44:


I think 29 is the lowest you can get.

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LordoftheMorons
01/15/20 4:00:37 PM
#45:


Biden 15
Bloomberg 14
Klobuchar 14
Yang 14
Buttigieg 13
Steyer 12
Gabbard 9
Warren 7
Sanders 6

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Wanglicious
01/15/20 4:13:50 PM
#46:


i'm amused at how highly i am in that agreeable number considering how little i get that in these topics. then again maybe that's a sign the list of questions has issues...!

...actually two of them really are just "oh you like Yang" questions, the nuclear and UBI ones. so they are kind of silly.
some answers have zero answers for candidates too, like the prison voting one. which is weird since you'd think there'd be some going for the a middle ground saying that some criminals can vote after their sentence instead of all.

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Espeon
01/15/20 4:16:43 PM
#47:


Steyer - 12
Yang - 11
Klobuchar - 10
Sanders - 10
Warren - 10
Bloomberg - 8
Buttigieg - 8
Biden - 7
Gabbard - 4

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LordoftheMorons
01/15/20 4:17:07 PM
#48:


https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1217535138151780353

I shouldn't be surprised but what the fuck

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Dancedreamer
01/15/20 4:20:37 PM
#49:


Wanglicious posted...
...actually two of them really are just "oh you like Yang" questions, the nuclear and UBI ones. so they are kind of silly.
some answers have zero answers for candidates too, like the prison voting one. which is weird since you'd think there'd be some going for the a middle ground saying that some criminals can vote after their sentence instead of all.

I don't see why anyone would object to prisoners who've completed their sentences to be allowed to vote. Then again, I don't see why people object to prisoners currently in prison being allowed to vote so that's probably just me.

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Grimlyn
01/15/20 4:23:55 PM
#50:


... agree-ability list updated... good lord LotM

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