Current Events > Joker, the film, is actually pretty damn liberal... (Spoiler)

(+) Yeah! (+)

• the film is anti-gun and anti-capitalism
• Thomas Wayne's portrayal is a prolonged dig at Donald Trump
• any character in the film who can be black is black -- including the subject of Joker's desire
• a man's racism and affinity for guns lead to his demise (in a roundabout sort of way)

Yet, so many critics try to make it out to be an alt-right movie or a white empowerment movie. Why?

Skye Reynolds posted...

Thomas Wayne's portrayal is a prolonged dig at Donald Trump

projection much?
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I disagree with you.


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Skye Reynolds posted...

Yet, so many critics try to make it out to be an alt-right movie or a white empowerment movie. Why?

Because he's white and shoots people. That's the narrative.

spudger posted...

projection much?

The scene where he rambles on about clowns is a direct dig at Trump's mannerisms and on-camera behavior.

Reminder that the trigger of the Joker riots is the politicization of a non-political act. Arthur killed the subway douchebags in self defense, not out of any political statement against the rich, and subsequent people forced their political views on it and ended up burning down the city.

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Purely posted...

Because he's white and shoots people. That's the narrative.

If Schwarzenegger wasn't semi-retired, I wonder what they'd say about him.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Yet, so many critics try to make it out to be an alt-right movie or a white empowerment movie. Why?

You know how people who are insecure about their gaming choices call literally everything they don't play casual?

Critics are just insecure in the extremity of their leftism.

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The Joker was racist?

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The only overtly liberal theme in Joker was it's criticism of healthcare, but even then it's very on the surface. It comes off as a movie that wants to say something interesting without actually working for it.
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killing the dudes on the subway was liberal?
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spudger posted...

killing the dudes on the subway was liberal?

Killing the dudes on the subway was a bad thing. Joker tracked down and killed the last guy even when he was no longer a threat.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Killing the dudes on the subway was a bad thing. Joker tracked down and killed the last guy even when he was no longer a threat.

so liberals do that? its liberal movie after all
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spudger posted...

so liberals do that? its liberal movie after all

...why are you suggesting the Joker is supposed to be a good guy in the film

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Blackstar110 posted...

...why are you suggesting the Joker is supposed to be a good guy in the film

why are you suggesting all liberals are evil?
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spudger posted...

so liberals do that? its liberal movie after all

Not everything is dictated by politics. I was merely saying the film was on the left side of the spectrum when critics try to project it being on the right.

All rich assholes are Donald Trump now? That's insulting to rich assholes

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spudger posted...

so liberals do that? its liberal movie after all

This is the stupidest damn post I've ever seen lol.

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Is this liberal or repub logic?

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It is the most successful SJW film of 2019.

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DevsBro posted...

This is the stupidest damn post I've ever seen lol.

you obviously have no ability to follow a train of thought

pathetic, really
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Skye Reynolds posted...

Thomas Wayne's portrayal is a prolonged dig at Donald Trump

Thomas was the good guy of the movie though.

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CM_Ponch posted...

Thomas was the good guy of the movie though.

are you trolling rn?
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spudger posted...

are you trolling rn?

Thomas Wayne's story in the movie was that his employees got shot and then people cheered for their deaths, then some guy shows up and assaults his son and then confronts him in a bathroom all because his mom lied to him. Then he dies.

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CM_Ponch posted...

Thomas Wayne's story in the movie was that his employees got shot and then people cheered for their deaths, then some guy shows up and assaults his son and then confronts him in a bathroom all because his mom lied to him. Then he dies.

if thats all you got from the movie you literally have no understanding of nuance

just stop watching movies all together
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DevsBro posted...

This is the stupidest damn post I've ever seen lol.

He mad

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Smashingpmkns posted...

The only overtly liberal theme in Joker was it's criticism of healthcare, but even then it's very on the surface. It comes off as a movie that wants to say something interesting without actually working for it.

I'd argue the entire thing was a pretty serious dig at the Reagan administration's policies.

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Garioshi posted...

I'd argue the entire thing was a pretty serious dig at the Reagan administration's policies.

that i could understand

esp. considering the era
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Skye Reynolds posted...

any character in the film who can be black is black -- including the subject of Joker's desire

???

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spudger posted...

if thats all you got from the movie you literally have no understanding of nuance

just stop watching movies all together

Go ahead and tell me what I got wrong about it

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CM_Ponch posted...

Go ahead and tell me what I got wrong about it

fucking pathetic
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spudger posted...

fucking pathetic

You gonna answer the question?

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I want to try and inject a serious post for spudger or whoever to respond to

The film depicts the failure of the city to care for its disabled (mentally or otherwise) as a serious issue, and Arthur partially takes this out on wealthy people who did what they wanted to. I don't believe the intent of the film was for us to root for Arthur at all; it was intended (partially) as a cautionary tale on what happens if

A: You neglect people who need help, in this case, funding social programs (Arthur goes well off the deep end once he loses any/all support he had)

B: You don't care for people. There's a ton of stuff in the film demonstrating the importance of caring for others and plenty of ways Arthur's life wouldn't have gone completely off the rails had people simply not been so hostile or cruel.

Wayne is definitely something of an antagonist I don't necessarily disagree with Trump parallels, especially since (if memory serves) Phillips said they'd be some "commentary" in the film about it. I don't think he's really the exact thesis of the movie though

But yes, it's pretty liberal. Rich people in the film are depicted with a bit more disdain, Arthur is somewhat sympathetic in spots, and the ways to help him, by the film's logic, involve being more empathetic towards others and supporting programs that can help mentally ill people.

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one of the more definitive moment in the movie for me is the talk show scene

Arthur is actually pretty sympathetic and often correct (in this scene) until he says "fuck it" and kills Murray; Murray believes the lie that the Wall Street boys were innocent, but we as an audience know this <i>definitely</i> wasn't the case, so Arthur saying "they were awful" is a fair thing Murray couldn't have known.

Arthur's bits on wishing people would step over him less and that "people like him" (people with means, who don't live in poverty) should think about what it's like to live in other people's shoes. This is pretty obviously biting at the class divide since we know Murray, Thomas, etc. are very well off while Arthur becomes increasingly destitute throughout the film.

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like, if you're analyzing the messaging of the movie, you have to take in the media as a whole, not just a character's viewpoint, one action taken, etc. it being a "liberal" movie depends on its cumulative messaging and what it's communicating through its various scenes

one great bit of irony is that the media freaked out over this maybe causing incel/whatever induced shootings, showing the same lack of tact towards vulnerable people the same way Murray does when he openly mocks Arthur for trying his hardest at a comedy club.

the film preemptively criticized its critics which is pretty funny

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Joker is a bad guy?

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Phantom_Nook posted...

???

The characters from Batman continuity are white, Robert De Niro is white, and the asshole victims realistically have to be white. Of the remaining cast, any role that could realistically go to a black actor is played by one -- psychiatrist, record keeper, love interest, the woman on the bus who confronts Arthur Fleck about his laughing fits, etc.

There are about four or five minor roles played by black actors. It's a little tokenistic if you ask me -- because they are small roles -- but at least the film is trying to be inclusive.

A film made by conservatives likely would've seen the single mother as a blonde or brunette (i.e. white). And one or two of the other minor roles occupied by black actors would've gone to a white actor.

Arther "Eat the Rich" Fleck; He wasn't mad at censorship, or "forced diversity"; the whole movie just keeps showing you, over and over, how the system royally fucked him over. The feared Socialist Safety Net is what he wanted and could not get.

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Skye Reynolds posted...

The characters from Batman continuity are white, Robert De Niro is white, and the asshole victims realistically have to be white. Of the remaining cast, any role that could realistically go to a black actor is played by one -- psychiatrist, record keeper, love interest, the woman on the bus who confronts Arthur Fleck about his laughing fits, etc.

There are about four or five minor roles played by black actors. It's a little tokenistic if you ask me -- because they are small roles -- but at least the film is trying to be inclusive.

A film made by conservatives likely would've seen the single mother as a blonde or brunette (i.e. white). And one or two of the other minor roles occupied by black actors would've gone to a white actor.

have you considered that there just might be a lot of black people in new york gotham city

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A liberal incel?

Garioshi posted...

have you considered that there just might be a lot of black people in new york gotham city

It took Batman more than seven decades to get that memo.

darkphoenix181 posted...

A liberal incel?

Reddit-style incels latched onto him, but the dude fucking works, or at least tries to. Even his going out and losing his shit is him trying to be anything -but- a hopeless self-pitying loser. Arthur cannot be that kind of incel, because he actually acts.

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