Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 274: Rebuttigieg

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Jakyl25
02/27/20 10:36:44 AM
#1:


The Democratic primary brings new meaning to Blue Screen of Death
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KamikazePotato
02/27/20 11:20:08 AM
#2:


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/msnbc-chris-matthews-debate-elizabeth-warren_n_5e569f95c5b649ec43316fc2

A decade later, the company [Bloomberg] faced a lawsuit from multiple employees alleging pregnancy discrimination.

Matthews, in questioning Warren Tuesday night, didnt appear to know this context or knew and skipped over it anyway. Heres the key exchange between the two of them:

You believe hes lying, Matthews said to Warren.

I believe the woman, which means hes not telling the truth, she said.

You believe hes lying, Matthews said.

And why would he lie? Matthews asked in a stunning moment. Just to protect himself?

Really happy with the level of political discourse the media is currently capable of! They're knocking it out of the park.

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Dancedreamer
02/27/20 11:22:41 AM
#3:


Republicans want to push resolution condemning a statement made by Bernie Sanders praising Literacy Programs. Because of course they do. Hopefully Nancy pushes a resolution condemning statements Trump's made and force Republicans to vote on it.

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KamikazePotato
02/27/20 11:24:49 AM
#4:


https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1233017698692538369

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DoomTheGyarados
02/27/20 11:30:44 AM
#5:


Dancedreamer posted...
Republicans want to push resolution condemning a statement made by Bernie Sanders praising Literacy Programs. Because of course they do. Hopefully Nancy pushes a resolution condemning statements Trump's made and force Republicans to vote on it.

We welcome their hatred

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Nelson_Mandela
02/27/20 11:31:39 AM
#6:


https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1233044380816232449

Bernie approaching sub-15% and no delegates

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xp1337
02/27/20 11:32:13 AM
#7:


as someone who had the fuller version of the fdr quote as a forum signature like 15 years ago

i think you should chill with it. overuse lessens impact!

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DoomTheGyarados
02/27/20 11:34:42 AM
#8:


There is so much more hate now to be welcomed though.

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xp1337
02/27/20 11:35:14 AM
#9:


As we have discussed repeatedly at this point. Failing to break 15% state-wide does not mean no delegates. It's an important breakpoint for the statewide delegates but even at 16% you're almost certainly missing viability in multiple districts so you're missing delegates there as well.

Getting, say, 14% would hurt, yes, but it's not significantly different from getting 16%. It's greater than the flat 2% would suggest but it's not 0 vs. something.

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ChaosTonyV4
02/27/20 11:35:18 AM
#10:


Dancedreamer posted...
Republicans want to push resolution condemning a statement made by Bernie Sanders praising Literacy Programs. Because of course they do. Hopefully Nancy pushes a resolution condemning statements Trump's made and force Republicans to vote on it.

See? The Republicans want to help Bernie Sanders!

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/watch-elizabeth-warren-eat-smug-bernie-bros-soul-live-on-cnn/amp/

Very good and unbiased reporting on this one!

My favorite part of this entire thing is that these people who unequivocally say Bernie was wrong about 2016 are now saying oh but if we strip all the nuance in regards to superdelegates tainting the whole process, Bernie was right ONCE.

Also this disingenuous shit coming from Warren really makes me sad. Such a disappointment.

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Nelson_Mandela
02/27/20 11:37:11 AM
#11:


xp1337 posted...
As we have discussed repeatedly at this point. Failing to break 15% state-wide does not mean no delegates. It's an important breakpoint for the statewide delegates but even at 16% you're almost certainly missing viability in multiple districts so you're missing delegates there as well.

Getting, say, 14% would hurt, yes, but it's not significantly different from getting 16%. It's greater than the flat 2% would suggest but it's not 0 vs. something.
Right, I keep forgetting how awful and convoluted the Democratic primary system is.

There is not a single winner-take-all threshold?

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red sox 777
02/27/20 11:41:34 AM
#12:


Warren supporters are the worst. Without them she might actually have a chance!

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HeroDelTiempo17
02/27/20 11:44:27 AM
#13:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...


My favorite part of this entire thing is that these people who unequivocally say Bernie was wrong about 2016 are now saying oh but if we strip all the nuance in regards to superdelegates tainting the whole process, Bernie was right ONCE.

Also this disingenuous shit coming from Warren really makes me sad. Such a disappointment.

I know we've been over this and you don't agree, but it's no more disingenuous than Bernie's position. All politicians are in it to win it and make the winning play, Bernie is no different and this is his.

Bernie is only being consistent on two things here: 1) the primary system as a whole sucks (true) and 2) he wants to win the primary. His solution only solves 2.

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ChaosTonyV4
02/27/20 11:45:44 AM
#14:


https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1233017698692538369?s=21

Bolivia dismissed its October elections as fraudulent. Our research found no reason to suspect fraud.
Bolivians will hold a new election in May without ousted president Evo Morales

Uh oh skettios! The OAS did an oopsie, no big deal


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xp1337
02/27/20 11:45:56 AM
#15:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...


Very good and unbiased reporting on this one!
It's an opinion piece! It's not pretending to be hard, unbiased reporting. I'm also rejecting the premise that superdelegates "tainted" the process and that somehow changes the fact that now that the delegate situations are reversed from 2016 many of those players in 2016 have flipped their stances to fit what is more advantageous to them/who they support.

Nelson_Mandela posted...


There is not a single winner-take-all threshold?
Not to my knowledge.

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DoomTheGyarados
02/27/20 11:47:00 AM
#16:


Oopsie

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ChaosTonyV4
02/27/20 11:48:43 AM
#17:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
I know we've been over this and you don't agree, but it's no more disingenuous than Bernie's position. All politicians are in it to win it and make the winning play, Bernie is no different and this is his.

Bernie is only being consistent on two things here: 1) the primary system as a whole sucks (true) and 2) he wants to win the primary. His solution only solves 2.

Do I believe Bernies position in 2016 was the ideal one? No. But considering Hillary lost, I think theres an argument that could be made that maybe Bernie got screwed by the media reporting the primary as 400-0 from the start.

I completely understand the opposite belief, but I also think its really shitty to attack Bernie for it now, as a reason to do it now. Its like hey remember that thing you wanted in 2016? Well NOW were going to do it, specifically against you!

Theres no way to slice that which doesnt feel oogey

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DoomTheGyarados
02/27/20 11:50:44 AM
#18:


To be clear Bernie was totally just being a dick by that point in 2016 and even I can recognize that. I happen to think it was justified but yeah for sure he was annoyed.

Ps Bernie's people only made up a third of the new rules committee and their suggestions were non binding. Fyi

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HeroDelTiempo17
02/27/20 12:02:27 PM
#19:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...


I completely understand the opposite belief, but I also think its really shitty to attack Bernie for it now, as a reason to do it now. Its like hey remember that thing you wanted in 2016? Well NOW were going to do it, specifically against you!

Theres no way to slice that which doesnt feel oogey

True. Bernie is clearly fed up with the process and I think this specific issue is a distraction from that. I think the criticisms of Bernie on this have been pretty light and fair, but it's kind of shifting the blame away from the DNC.

Also, not gonna lie, I keep envisioning a nightmare scenario in which Biden bounces back and overtakes Bernie slightly and the DNC goes "well, by Bernie's own admission we should give it to the plurality winner so..."

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xp1337
02/27/20 12:07:00 PM
#20:


If Biden does bounce back and gets the plurality he should be the nominee. That's not even on my list of nightmare scenarios. That list is reserved for scenarios where the person with the plurality doesn't get the nomination.

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DoomTheGyarados
02/27/20 12:07:33 PM
#21:


Yeah if Biden gets a plurality hey, have at it hoss.

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FFDragon
02/27/20 12:10:08 PM
#22:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
a nightmare scenario in which Biden bounces back and overtakes Bernie slightly and the DNC goes "well, by Bernie's own admission we should give it to the plurality winner so..."

How... Is that a nightmare scenario?

That's how it should work!

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HeroDelTiempo17
02/27/20 12:10:38 PM
#23:


Because FPTP is stupid!

If you guys agree with it then that I guess that explains a lot about my issues with this!

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FFDragon
02/27/20 12:12:27 PM
#24:


well until ranked choice becomes the norm (and it should imo), this is what we got

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HeroDelTiempo17
02/27/20 12:13:12 PM
#25:


FFDragon posted...
well until ranked choice becomes the norm (and it should imo), this is what we got

But I could make the same argument about the (super)delegate system. That doesn't make it good!

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ChaosTonyV4
02/27/20 12:13:43 PM
#26:


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/04/elizabeth-warren-superdelegates-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton


Elizabeth Warren: 'I'm a superdelegate and I don't believe in superdelegates'
Senator appears to side with Sanders in intra-party Democratic fight
Sat 4 Jun 2016 18.03 EDT


lmaooo


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xp1337
02/27/20 12:20:36 PM
#27:


Sounds like bad reporting because that can't be Warren siding with Sanders because Sanders was trying to campaign to win over the superdelegates to overcome Clinton's lead in pledged delegates!

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TheRock1525
02/27/20 12:23:21 PM
#28:


https://twitter.com/AndyShain/status/1233074240070574081?s=19

Biden could sweep SC.

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DoomTheGyarados
02/27/20 12:24:58 PM
#29:


Given the wide range of polling I am genuinely interested in how this goes saturday

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HeroDelTiempo17
02/27/20 12:28:11 PM
#30:


I think Biden is going to crush regardless of whoever else comes in 2nd or 3rd, delegates or no it doesnt really matter. The narrative isn't gonna change.

The real question is how this impacts Super Tuesday, if it does at all. Early voting has been going on for a while but this could shift trends on the day itself.

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red sox 777
02/27/20 12:29:59 PM
#31:


FFDragon posted...
How... Is that a nightmare scenario?

That's how it should work!

Yeah, Biden should win in that case.

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Grimlyn
02/27/20 12:31:25 PM
#32:


Pete & Amy failing to use their early winnings to ultimately convince voters they can be the candidate instead of just being a big waste space could certainly help Biden get back into gear

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pxlated
02/27/20 12:36:38 PM
#33:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
I think Biden is going to crush regardless of whoever else comes in 2nd or 3rd, delegates or no it doesnt really matter. The narrative isn't gonna change.

The real question is how this impacts Super Tuesday, if it does at all. Early voting has been going on for a while but this could shift trends on the day itself.

the problem is that, even if/when biden demolishes and raises a bunch of money, it wont matter for super tuesday. those ads are already sold (and biden/basically everyone that isn't bloomberg are barely running any ads in the majority of super tuesday states). it will help him for sure but how much is very very questionable.

it's going to be an interesting week.

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xp1337
02/27/20 12:36:54 PM
#34:


TheRock1525 posted...


Biden could sweep SC.
He could.

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1232074530119716864

And when Silver says they "tended to underestimate" we're not talking "oh they were off by 3" we're talking more like "off by 15-20"

Another annoying possibility for Sanders/media coverage that we may need to prep for is this regarding Super Tuesday:

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1232430494798811136

Basically, if Sanders has a mixed result or even just a bunch of narrow losses with the Eastern/Central states on Super Tuesday it may set the news cycle even if it turns out he won huge on the West Coast because they count slower so we may not have those results in super timely.

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MichelBollinger
02/27/20 12:41:02 PM
#35:


Tag
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HeroDelTiempo17
02/27/20 12:43:42 PM
#36:


pxlated posted...
the problem is that, even if/when biden demolishes and raises a bunch of money, it wont matter for super tuesday. those ads are already sold (and biden/basically everyone that isn't bloomberg are barely running any ads in the majority of super tuesday states). it will help him for sure but how much is very very questionable.

it's going to be an interesting week.

Due to Bloomberg and the other moderates splitting the vote, Bernie is neck and neck with Biden in Texas so even marginal effects could matter! If Bernie gets a decisive first there it's a really interesting story that should help him a lot. If Bloomberg tanks or Biden gets a SC boost it blocks that.

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pxlated
02/27/20 12:46:21 PM
#37:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
Due to Bloomberg and the other moderates splitting the vote, Bernie is neck and neck with Biden in Texas so even marginal effects could matter! If Bernie gets a decisive first there it's a really interesting story that should help him a lot. If Bloomberg tanks or Biden gets a SC boost it blocks that.

yeah, for sure. like i said, it's going to be an interesting week!

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ChaosTonyV4
02/27/20 1:13:07 PM
#38:


Not gonna lie, part of me sees this election as totally unwinnable, and is sort of hoping for Biden pulls it off so the Dem-Dems get all the blame for blowing it again.

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pxlated
02/27/20 1:15:28 PM
#39:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Not gonna lie, part of me sees this election as totally unwinnable, and is sort of hoping for Biden pulls it off so the Dem-Dems get all the blame for blowing it again.

i realize it's hard to stay optimistic but if everyone succumbs to the pessimism then we *definitely* will lose.

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Nelson_Mandela
02/27/20 1:19:13 PM
#40:


I'm interested in seeing who drops out after SC and if they throw an endorsement Biden's way. Steyer is probably a definite if he gets killed.

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pxlated
02/27/20 1:19:18 PM
#41:


i hate the democratic establishment as much as anyone but dismantling it might not matter much after 4 more years of complete climate change denial

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Jakyl25
02/27/20 1:20:33 PM
#42:


The election is not unwinnable, its just unwinnable if it was held today

2016 was unwinnable for Trump if it was held in like August
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red sox 777
02/27/20 1:21:18 PM
#43:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Not gonna lie, part of me sees this election as totally unwinnable, and is sort of hoping for Biden pulls it off so the Dem-Dems get all the blame for blowing it again.

A really bad possibility is Bernie gets McGoverned in the general, just due to the strength of the economy, and the Dems go back to nominating centrists for a generation.

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xp1337
02/27/20 1:21:58 PM
#44:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Not gonna lie, part of me sees this election as totally unwinnable, and is sort of hoping for Biden pulls it off so the Dem-Dems get all the blame for blowing it again.
I swear you are trying your hardest to get me to vote for Biden.

like you are his best surrogate on this board

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ChaosTonyV4
02/27/20 1:28:56 PM
#45:


red sox 777 posted...


A really bad possibility is Bernie gets McGoverned in the general, just due to the strength of the economy, and the Dems go back to nominating centrists for a generation.

This is exactly my fear. Bernie losing an unwinnable election will set the progressive movement back for the rest of our lives.

xp1337 posted...
I swear you are trying your hardest to get me to vote for Biden.

like you are his best surrogate on this board


ok

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DoomTheGyarados
02/27/20 1:32:35 PM
#46:


In fairness when LotM is the only other one it isn't very hard.

OOOOOOOOOOH.


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Jakyl25
02/27/20 1:35:16 PM
#47:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
This is exactly my fear. Bernie losing an unwinnable election will set the progressive movement back for the rest of our lives.


Not if he still wins the popular vote, especially so if its by more than Hillary
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pxlated
02/27/20 1:37:34 PM
#48:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
In fairness when LotM is the only other one it isn't very hard.

OOOOOOOOOOH.

http://i.imgur.com/VQLGJOL.gif

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Nelson_Mandela
02/27/20 1:40:29 PM
#49:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
This is exactly my fear. Bernie losing an unwinnable election will set the progressive movement back for the rest of our lives.
Funny enough, this is why part of me kind of wants Bernie to get the nomination, so that socialism is undeniably rejected in the US. But I've decided that the risk that something could happen and Bernie might win is too great.

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Corrik7
02/27/20 1:40:45 PM
#50:


Jakyl25 posted...
The election is not unwinnable, its just unwinnable if it was held today

2016 was unwinnable for Trump if it was held in like August
This is a bullshit statement.

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