Current Events > Ever notice how non-vegans suddenly become nutritionists when it's discussed

(+) Yeah! (+)

Pretty much just heard my colleague make every cliche anti-veganism argument under the sun upon learning that another colleague is vegan, including:

• "People have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years"
• "I knew a vegan who became anaemic from being vegan, it's just not good for you, you can't survive just on vegetables"
• "My mate ordered a vegan sausage roll from greggs and it was absolutely disgusting looking"
• "You're burning up the amazon rainforests by eating all the plants"
• "We have canine teeth for a reason"

I'm sitting here creasing because the man has type 2 diabetes from his daily diet of cake for breakfast, tinned soup for lunch and chinese takeaway for dinner.

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Grats

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they're right tho

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viewmaster_pi posted...

they're right tho

oh gosh here we go

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viewmaster_pi posted...

they're right tho

Yes, enjoy your vitamin B deficiency vegans

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Its difficult to eat Vegan if youre poor. If youre not its easy.

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God I love meat in my mouth so much

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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

Its difficult to eat Vegan if youre poor. If youre not its easy.

Pretty much the only good argument I know of, but even then most of my hospitality friends who are vegan seem to manage. Maybe things are harder in the US.

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He needs to focus on his own poor diet and leave vegans alone.

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pinky0926 posted...

Pretty much the only good argument I know of, but even then most of my hospitality friends who are vegan seem to manage. Maybe things are harder in the US.

There's plenty of good arguments not to be vegan but of course in your OP you pick on a non vegan who eats cake for breakfast... Cake.

TheTestAccount posted...

There's plenty of good arguments not to be vegan but of course in your OP you pick on a non vegan who eats cake for breakfast... Cake.

This guy literally started an argument with someone who conversationally mentioned she is vegan, don't make him out to be some kind of victim, lol

I didn't set out in this topic to end the vegan argument once and for all, I'm just laughing at a hypocrite making a bad argument.

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pinky0926 posted...

You're burning up the amazon rainforests by eating all the plants"

lmao

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Hearing about Veganism and vegetarianism just seems to set something off in people and they become so defensive. It's weird
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TheTestAccount posted...

There's plenty of good arguments not to be vegan

Since we're here though I'd love to hear them

Because I eat meat but pretty much all I've got now is "but I fucking love the taste of meat"

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emblem boy posted...

Hearing about Veganism and vegetarianism just seems to set something off in people and they become so defensive. It's weird

Its probably because they never shut the fuck up about that fact that they're vegan, the memes about them didn't just come out of nowhere.

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Honestly, as long as they aren't acting like our resident vegan about it, I really don't see how people can give the tiniest shit.

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pinky0926 posted...

Since we're here though I'd love to hear them

Vitamin B deficiency has already been stated ITT

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Lol, they call Chinese takeout, takeaway in the UK?

"Let's get some takeaway mate. Pip pip cheerio"

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BignutzisBack posted...

Its probably because they never shut the fuck up about that fact that they're vegan, the memes about them didn't just come out of nowhere.

This is like when people say gay people need to stop shoving their sexuality in your face. You know, because the gay guy did exactly what a straight person did, but the person witnessing wasn't expecting to see that.

For every angry obnoxious vegan there are (and sure, they exist) I contend there are so many people like my colleague here, who get set off by the mere mention of the V-word and go on a far more obnoxious rant.

For context, the conversation went like this:

Colleague 1: What's that you're eating?
Colleague 2: Oh, it's quorn bacon
Colleague 1: What's quorn bacon?
Colleague 2: It's just a vegan alternative to bacon

That was it.

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BignutzisBack posted...

emblem boy posted...

Hearing about Veganism and vegetarianism just seems to set something off in people and they become so defensive. It's weird

Its probably because they never shut the fuck up about that fact that they're vegan, the memes about them didn't just come out of nowhere.

Considering how few of them their are, I'd say these kinds of complaints are overstated and the memes evolved out of the defensiveness I mentioned.

You act as if all people don't talk in general about food on a regular basis.
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I don't know why people give a damn about what others eat, tbh. If there's going to be health consequences let them figure it out on their own. Otherwise, stfu.

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BignutzisBack posted...

Vitamin B deficiency has already been stated ITT

Right, which is:

• easily supplemented and already successfully done so by the vast majority of vegans
• something you can't mention without also pointing out that typical vegan diets are overall better in vitamin intake than what most people eat

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Just don't eat soya from South America, planted where they cut down the Amazon rainforest
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pinky0926 posted...

supplemented

Ouch, vegans have to take vitamins just to not become deathly ill? Interesting diet.

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I need to get off this website. I read that non-vegys

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BignutzisBack posted...

Ouch, vegans have to take vitamins just to not become deathly ill? Interesting diet.

This is such an appallingly lazy and disingenuous position. Just say you love steak and be done with it, that would be a fine argument too

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pinky0926 posted...

People have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years"
"We have canine teeth for a reason"

These are true tho

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pinky0926 posted...

This is such an appallingly lazy and disingenuous position. Just say you love steak and be done with it, that would be a fine argument too

Translation- "I'm butthurt that I can't defend that a particular diet needs vitamin supplementation in order to not be deathly ill so I'll make a petty personal attack to divert things"



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emblem boy posted...

You act as if all people don't talk in general about food on a regular basis.

wat
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BignutzisBack posted...

pinky0926 posted...

supplemented

Ouch, vegans have to take vitamins just to not become deathly ill? Interesting diet.

Aren't animals given vitamin B supplements at times as well?
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Turbam posted...

These are true tho

They are true, but arguing on the basis that meat must be fundamentally good for you because it is what human have always done historically and that it is natural is an argument that falls apart immediately if you squint at it for more than 5 seconds.

BignutzisBack posted...

Translation- "I'm butthurt that I can't defend that a particular diet needs vitamin supplementation in order to not be deathly ill so I'll make a petty personal attack to divert things"

The problem isn't that it's wrong, the problem is that you're making it out to be a problem at all. As if taking a cheap and accessible pill is an insurmountable obstacle that shuts down the entire vegan debate, lmao

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I guess because people see it as an extreme diet that threatens the existence of their moderate diet.

UnfairRepresent posted...

emblem boy posted...

You act as if all people don't talk in general about food on a regular basis.

wat

People talking about their diets is pretty normal from my experience. My point was that some only have an issue with people talking about their diets if it's a vegetarian/vegan diet
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BignutzisBack posted...

Ouch, vegans have to take vitamins just to not become deathly ill? Interesting diet.

you mean a diet can work once you add all of the things you need to it? great.

and this one doesn't kill animals/is better for the environment. sounds fine to me.

if you don't like it, don't do it. that's all.

pinky0926 posted...

Maybe things are harder in the US.

We use butter, eggs, milk, and cheese a lot. Like, in the tex-mex genre, almost nothing is vegan-friendly.

If you're a member of the "I work two jobs with no nearby grocery store so most of my calories are from gas-station tier food and McDs" class being vegan really cuts into your dietary options, especially in the protein field.
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philsov posted...

We use butter, eggs, milk, and cheese a lot. Like, in the tex-mex genre, almost nothing is vegan-friendly.

If you're a member of the "I work two jobs with no nearby grocery store so most of my calories are from gas-station tier food and McDs" class being vegan really cuts into your dietary options, especially in the protein field.

Yes, I've heard about the food desert problem in the US. So to add another argument that I'm fine with, veganism is clearly a fairly geographic or middle class privilege

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pinky0926 posted...

veganism is clearly a middle class privilege

India tho

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BignutzisBack posted...

Ouch, vegans have to take vitamins just to not become deathly ill? Interesting diet.

What's wrong with taking a vitamin, exactly? Why are you trying to frame it like a bad thing?

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BignutzisBack posted...

Vitamin B deficiency has already been stated ITT

and not just vitamin B12, vegans are deficient in a lot of other nutrients as well. Sure they supplement, but supplements aren't always absorbed very well, and supplements themselves aren't always labeled well either.

And this assumes that vegans are even supplementing correctly which is a very bold assumption given that we don't every last single nutrient we need in our diets and dietary health hasn't hit perfection yet.

Furthermore it makes the assumption that we can live a healthy life without meat, which given the history of our species is another bold claim with 0 basis in historical fact.

Go look at vegan forums, many are suffering from severe health problems. Bloating and gas is a big one. hair loss isn't too uncommon. Many men are low in sperm count and women going without periods(and no it's not because they are on the pill). Vitamin D is another big deficiency you see. low iron and bone density problems often arise. If you want to see what long term vegans look like, a youtube channel vegan deterioration is pretty damn good. There are plenty of other vitamins vegans tend to lack

However there is a big problem that gets overlooked, you will feel better for a little while at the beginning of a vegan diet, because that can be a GREAT detox, but the problem is this detox gets misunderstood to mean vegan diet is great longterm, when no, it's just your body cleaning out junk. At some point you need to put meat back into the system.

A great example of why the vegan diet fails is this common food. Carrots. In order to get the vitamin A out of carrots you need to eat a fat with it. In essence eating and getting the proper nutrients because this game of science mix and match to make sure you can get everything out of it. When in reality the food just isn't very bio-available when compared to eating a nice ribeye. Food just isn't meant to overly calculated like that and so it's really really hard to constantly do that.

this isn't to say we can't eat any plants at all, though compared to how many plants exist on this planet, we can eat a very very small percentage of them and if you were hypothetically tossed into the wild and had to gamble on eating a random dead animal or random plant, the animal would be the safer bet 10/10 times, but it is to say that we are more of a meat eating species than anything else. Our big brains attest to that fact. and it's worth noting that all human babies are born pure carnivores.

Fam_Fam posted...

and this one doesn't kill animals/is better for the environment. sounds fine to me.

this isn't true though. Farm lands to grow all those plants in the large quantities needed kill tons of little animals, like insects, rodents, etc. Comparing to say raising cows and killing only cows. Vegans act like their way of life does no damage to the environment which is outright false.

That proudclad?

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Too polite for proudclad, surely. Needs at least 14 more instances of calling me a dumbass illiterate unschooled socialist moron

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My dad is vegan, but he also has extensive knowledge in nutrition, and only brings it up when people ask why he's in such great shape at his age (he's tried to convince me to adopt a bit of it, and I have, but even he admits it ain't a cheap lifestyle in the States). He was vegetarian for a while before that, although he still indulged in the occasional fish dish.

It's a whole lot more complicated to eat vegan and be healthy than simply "remove cow, insert carrot."

Question: Did the vegan guy bring up his diet as a part of the conversational flow, or did he just abruptly talk about how great eating vegan was? The former is insufferable, the latter is not. And it's where a lot of the hostility comes from in these convos. Itd be like me bringing up my political cynicism in a conversation about flying kites. No matter how good my argument may be, no one asked for it and it won't be welcomed.

Pinky, its called eating for your goals. Your colleagues goal is obviously diabetes. Dont be so judgmental.

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wittymillennial posted...

and not just vitamin B12, vegans are deficient in a lot of other nutrients as well. Sure they supplement, but supplements aren't always absorbed very well, and supplements themselves aren't always labeled well either.

And this assumes that vegans are even supplementing correctly which is a very bold assumption given that we don't every last single nutrient we need in our diets and dietary health hasn't hit perfection yet.

Furthermore it makes the assumption that we can live a healthy life without meat, which given the history of our species is another bold claim with 0 basis in historical fact.

Go look at vegan forums, many are suffering from severe health problems. Bloating and gas is a big one. hair loss isn't too uncommon. Many men are low in sperm count and women going without periods(and no it's not because they are on the pill). Vitamin D is another big deficiency you see. low iron and bone density problems often arise. If you want to see what long term vegans look like, a youtube channel vegan deterioration is pretty damn good. There are plenty of other vitamins vegans tend to lack

However there is a big problem that gets overlooked, you will feel better for a little while at the beginning of a vegan diet, because that can be a GREAT detox, but the problem is this detox gets misunderstood to mean vegan diet is great longterm, when no, it's just your body cleaning out junk. At some point you need to put meat back into the system.

A great example of why the vegan diet fails is this common food. Carrots. In order to get the vitamin A out of carrots you need to eat a fat with it. In essence eating and getting the proper nutrients because this game of science mix and match to make sure you can get everything out of it. When in reality the food just isn't very bio-available when compared to eating a nice ribeye. Food just isn't meant to overly calculated like that and so it's really really hard to constantly do that.

this isn't to say we can't eat any plants at all, though compared to how many plants exist on this planet, we can eat a very very small percentage of them and if you were hypothetically tossed into the wild and had to gamble on eating a random dead animal or random plant, the animal would be the safer bet 10/10 times, but it is to say that we are more of a meat eating species than anything else. Our big brains attest to that fact. and it's worth noting that all human babies are born pure carnivores.

this isn't true though. Farm lands to grow all those plants in the large quantities needed kill tons of little animals, like insects, rodents, etc. Comparing to say raising cows and killing only cows. Vegans act like their way of life does no damage to the environment which is outright false.

wittymillennial posted...

and not just vitamin B12, vegans are deficient in a lot of other nutrients as well. Sure they supplement, but supplements aren't always absorbed very well, and supplements themselves aren't always labeled well either.

And this assumes that vegans are even supplementing correctly which is a very bold assumption given that we don't every last single nutrient we need in our diets and dietary health hasn't hit perfection yet.

Furthermore it makes the assumption that we can live a healthy life without meat, which given the history of our species is another bold claim with 0 basis in historical fact.

Go look at vegan forums, many are suffering from severe health problems. Bloating and gas is a big one. hair loss isn't too uncommon. Many men are low in sperm count and women going without periods(and no it's not because they are on the pill). Vitamin D is another big deficiency you see. low iron and bone density problems often arise. If you want to see what long term vegans look like, a youtube channel vegan deterioration is pretty damn good. There are plenty of other vitamins vegans tend to lack

However there is a big problem that gets overlooked, you will feel better for a little while at the beginning of a vegan diet, because that can be a GREAT detox, but the problem is this detox gets misunderstood to mean vegan diet is great longterm, when no, it's just your body cleaning out junk. At some point you need to put meat back into the system.

A great example of why the vegan diet fails is this common food. Carrots. In order to get the vitamin A out of carrots you need to eat a fat with it. In essence eating and getting the proper nutrients because this game of science mix and match to make sure you can get everything out of it. When in reality the food just isn't very bio-available when compared to eating a nice ribeye. Food just isn't meant to overly calculated like that and so it's really really hard to constantly do that.

this isn't to say we can't eat any plants at all, though compared to how many plants exist on this planet, we can eat a very very small percentage of them and if you were hypothetically tossed into the wild and had to gamble on eating a random dead animal or random plant, the animal would be the safer bet 10/10 times, but it is to say that we are more of a meat eating species than anything else. Our big brains attest to that fact. and it's worth noting that all human babies are born pure carnivores.

this isn't true though. Farm lands to grow all those plants in the large quantities needed kill tons of little animals, like insects, rodents, etc. Comparing to say raising cows and killing only cows. Vegans act like their way of life does no damage to the environment which is outright false.

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dolomedes posted...

lmfao

yup.

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You've got to be out of your god damn mind if you think I'm giving up shrimp

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Artemis86 posted...

My dad is vegan, but he also has extensive knowledge in nutrition, and only brings it up when people ask why he's in such great shape at his age (he's tried to convince me to adopt a bit of it, and I have, but even he admits it ain't a cheap lifestyle in the States). He was vegetarian for a while before that, although he still indulged in the occasional fish dish.

It's a whole lot more complicated to eat vegan and be healthy than simply "remove cow, insert carrot."

Question: Did the vegan guy bring up his diet as a part of the conversational flow, or did he just abruptly talk about how great eating vegan was? The former is insufferable, the latter is not. And it's where a lot of the hostility comes from in these convos. Itd be like me bringing up my political cynicism in a conversation about flying kites. No matter how good my argument may be, no one asked for it and it won't be welcomed.

Of course you choose to ignore everything I said and reduce it to a soundbite that makes no sense.

Said "carrot" was a simple way of explaining the overwhelming complex problem with the vegan diet. It is common to say "Carrots have Vitamin A" and fair enough they do. However you can't just eat the carrot and get vitamin A out of it, you can only get the vitamin A out of if you eat something with fat as well, which means you have to eat a carrot + "food with fat" to get "vitamin A". This is because plants, have natural defenses against predators to make them unappealing to eat because like everything else on this planet, it wants to live and reproduce, arguably the only driving force behind life in general.

On a vegan diet you have to do this with literally everything. That plant that has that vitamin you need? Better make sure you eat something eat something that lets you extract that nutrient you need, or worse, don't eat something that blocks your ability to extract that nutrient.

So yes, it is more complicated than "remove cow, insert carrot." but that just means the diet is nigh impossible to get right because every meal becomes some psychotic math problem. And then on top of that you have to supplement.

what this means is if you eat a random salad, you will feel full, but you may not get anything from it or at least very little from it nutrient wise. The old phrase rice and beans to make a complete protein. Meanwhile I Can eat a ribeye and get most of what I need. Eat a liver and get nearly everything and I don't have to do some crazy math to make sure I haven't starved myself.

And this is all just for a shot in the dark at making the diet work, which fun fact, no one ever seems to do that. With 84% of vegans quitting year 1.

But no instead you went to anecdotal evidence, your dad, claiming he's healthy on a vegan diet, simplified what I said ignoring it and providing no counter point to it at all, and then went on to talk about whatever else, but you did stop and make sure the world knew I had no idea what I am talking about. But it's you who is wrong. As I said, want to see vegan health problems?

Go look at vegan forums, many are suffering from severe health problems. Bloating and gas is a big one. hair loss isn't too uncommon. Many men are low in sperm count and women going without periods(and no it's not because they are on the pill). Vitamin D is another big deficiency you see. low iron and bone density problems often arise. If you want to see what long term vegans look like, a youtube channel vegan deterioration is pretty damn good. There are plenty of other vitamins vegans tend to lack

and of course the famous B12 issue.