Board 8 > An analysis of how each year performed in Game of the Decade 2

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MechanicalWall
05/23/20 10:02:36 PM
#201:


_SecretSquirrel posted...
Think to how other big Playstation games like from the other platformers like Crash and Spyro clean up there
Have we ever had Crash and Spyro games make a bracket? I struggle to remember any.

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swirIdude
05/23/20 10:14:02 PM
#202:


MechanicalWall posted...
Have we ever had Crash and Spyro games make a bracket? I struggle to remember any.

They have never made a contest.

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ZenOfThunder
05/23/20 11:35:47 PM
#203:


if we ever do Best Game of the 90s I will probably end up rallying Spyro 2, try to get the spyro fans to focus their efforts on a single game so they dont all get snubbed


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Mac Arrowny
05/23/20 11:45:07 PM
#204:


Why 2? 1 and 3 were both good, but 2 sucked. All those obnoxious minigames...
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ZenOfThunder
05/23/20 11:55:30 PM
#205:


i have the fondest memories of 2

didn't we just have a topic series where we voted the best game of each year and Spyro 2 won its year?

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swirIdude
05/24/20 12:05:50 AM
#206:


2 is the plurality choice for Spyro but I think 1 is best. 2 and especially 3 over-complicated the game.

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_SecretSquirrel
05/24/20 12:10:13 AM
#207:


If you are aiming for strongest Spyro performance, I would think Spyro 1 has the chance of getting the "same name as charcter/series" factor.

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MechanicalWall
05/24/20 10:29:11 AM
#208:




The 13 Games That Made Bracket (And How Long They Lasted)
-The Outer Worlds (Round 1)
-Sekiro (Round 2)
-Bloodstained (Round 1)
-Resident Evil 2 (Division Finals)
-Devil May Cry 5 (Round 2)
-Mortal Kombat 11 (Round 1)
-Baba is You (Round 1)
-Death Stranding (Round 1)
-Fire Emblem Three Houses (Round 3)
-Slay the Spire (Round 1)
-Kingdom Hearts III (Round 2)
-Disco Elysium (Round 1)

Notable Snubs:
-Gears 5
-Luigis Mansion 3
-Cadence of Hyrule
-Katana ZERO
-Outer Wilds
-Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order
-Untitled Goose Game

The Headliner, SINGULAR, and the games that also happened to be there: Resident Evil 2, Sekiro, Devil May Cry V

Busts: Kingdom Hearts III, Fire Emblem Three Houses

Snubs Analysis:

Finally crossing the finish line! Woo! Unfortunately, the decade is ending with a whimper, at least as far as contest performance goes. With only 1 game making Division Finals and another making Round 3 in the worst way possible, this year reeeaaallly doesnt have much going for it. Even before the contest 2019 was lacking a vanguard, so to speak. Yknow, THE game that received overwhelming praise, awards, and influenced the conversation for years to come. Like a Last of Us, Witcher, Breath of the Wild, something along those lines.

So, Ive mostly been dodging the Gears franchise because honestly, who on this site gives a damn anymore? The old games got some contest play, but that was back when Xbox actually had some presence on GFAQs. The PS4 and Switch have utterly left the Bone in the dust, which in retrospect is a shame. As horrible as the original announcements for it were, Microsoft has really been putting its back into making Xbone more appealing. Game Pass, which regularly goes on sale for like a buck a month? Enhanced Backwards Compatibility? At the same time, Sonys been sniffy about cross-play, and Nintendos online servers suck shit out of a horses ass, while they pretend a bunch of NES ROMs compensate for us suddenly having to pay for their trash service. Unfortunately for Microsoft, at the end of the day, I cant play Persona or Bloodborne or Zelda on their system, so RIP.

Luigis Mansion 3 is yet another entry on my list of evidence that GameFAQs only cares about like 4 or 5 Nintendo series, if that. As for Cadence of Hyrule, I hope Allen didnt count it as a Zelda game, because it really isnt. Its very blatantly a Crypt of the Necrodancer game FEATURING Zelda shit. I really wish it had gotten in, because it would have been the ultimate test of how far Links mere presence can push a game. Is one glimpse of his dumb hat enough for voters to vote something into Round 2 or 3?

Speaking of Necrodancer, its one last year, one last smattering of indie games. Having Outer Wilds and Outer Worlds both be in bracket would sure have tripped up a lot of bracket makers; there were already a bunch of people that thought Zeldas first opponent was Wilds. Then there was the indie game that people seemed heavily disappointed didnt make it in, the Goose one. Personally the joke was only funny for like the first 3 seconds of the trailer I saw, but considering how it exploded, it clearly had potential for a joke run ala L-block.

Im no big fan of Star Wars; I watched the original three and had my fill. Still, its had a very storied history in this medium, and even I have to acknowledge it was dealt a rotten hand in terms of games this decade. First there was that MMO that I doubt you even remembered existed until you read this sentence, coming and going without much pomp and circumstance. Then there were the Battlefront games; the first sold at 60 dollars without a single-player campaign, and the second one was this generations iteration of the Holocaust, if the Internet is to be believed. So for EA to begrudgingly allow a real fckin game to be made, and for it to turn out really good, is worthy of celebration. It would have been the newest game in bracket had it made it in, though, so Im not surprised it didnt make the cut. Personally I was waiting for the trademark EA drop a games price by 80% two months after it comes out sale, which surprisingly never manifested. Turns out your games will hold onto their value if theyre, you know, GOOD, not because they have a shit multiplayer mode that you hope people will become mindlessly addicted to and play for the rest of their damn lives.

Bust Analysis:

Usually when Ive been in doubt over what to make a headliner, or when the year is trash, I opt for the games that at least made a run in bracket, even if they were tripping over themselves while doing it and had a lower x-stat value than even the busts of that same year. Hence FFXV and GTAV being headliners. But I CANT do that for this year. For the first time since 2014, I have a nice pair of games that undeniably looked like trash compared that what they could/should have looked like, though the fact that theyre board favorites probably means Im going to get some letters to the editor regardless.

Now, KHIII was hardly the favorite over Portal 2, not at large. Most of us KNEW that it was not going to perform up to par with the rest of its series, which has regularly kicked ass in these contests. Im not entirely clear WHY KHIII is so hated, personally. Yah the scripts shit, but uh, hello? Its ALWAYS been shit. Yes, even in KHI. On top of having basic bitch shonen yay friends are amazing writing, it introduced Ansem at the very end, despite him having fuck all to do with anything and the Malificent/Riku fights being a perfectly satisfactory ending. THAT was the series original sin, not Chain of Memories introducing the bishie brigade. At least in KHIII, the worlds were the best theyve ever been, and while the combat was a small step down from KHIIFM, it was still leagues ahead of every Action RPG on the market. Maybe Im just being kind to it because I knew that there was no way it was gonna live up to a decade and a half of hype, and am trying to see the good in it.

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MechanicalWall
05/24/20 10:30:07 AM
#209:


Bust Analysis continued:

Still, there WAS a school of thought that theorized that in an eightpack full of Western games, KHIII might be able to ride its name recognition and JRPG-ness to wins against Portal and RDR II. While I did not attend this school, I did concede that it wasnt impossible for something like that to occur.

But even in loss, Kingdom Hearts III was expected to at least have a pulse. It had a bye into Round 2 thanks to being seeded against another 2019 game, Disco Elysium. A game that by all accounts is probably too smart for the average GameFAQer, who thinks FFX was the apex of writing in the medium (oh shit). Even in a contest where two WRPGs placed in the top 5, and even though this game is MASSIVELY critically acclaimed, DE is too much of an old-school CRPG to have been worth much, the lack of console ports crippling it even further. Which made the fact that KHIII couldnt break 70 on whats essentially its home turf all the more embarrassing.

Anyone still thinking KHIII had a shot at Portal pretty much gave up at this point, but a lot of people were still unprepared for how terribly it would job out in Round 2. Personally, I remember making a post claiming that Portal could very well beat KHIII harder than it beat Tomb Raider. While it wasnt exactly that bad, it was pretty damn close, with Portal putting 62% on the once venerable Kingdom Hearts franchise. It wasnt even somewhat competitive, just a thrashing from the word go. I remember a lot of people that took KHIII to Division Finals GLADLY conceding these points. Its funny to think that in a different timeline, it could EASILY have been a top 5 game in this bracket. Easily. Guess this is what happens when you mismanage expectations and create a tangled mess of a plot that is impossible to satisfactorily wrap up.

Still, despite underperforming, KHIII got as far as most of us figured it would. The other Bust was far, far more disappointing despite being quite a bit stronger. Ive alluded to Fire Emblems horrible contest multiple times throughout this analysis, and FINALLY we get to why expectations were so high for it. Look, personally, I looooooooove Three Houses. In my mind I slot it alongside Mario, Zelda, and Smash as a must-own for the Switch. While the main plot is unevenly paced and the characters do draw heavily on typical anime tropes, there's quite a bit of meat on their bones. For a Nintendo joint, its actually INSANE how much decently-written dialogue there is, ALL of it voiced. Its the only time in recent memory where I started a second playthrough of a game immediately after beating it; I NEEDED to see another route.

But personal feelings aside, there was plenty of reason for Three Houses, and Awakening by extension, to do VERY well. 3H finally brought this series massive success on a home console, and has remained relevant through regular DLC. Its a game that has high engagement all across the Internet, tapping into the all important weeb market that generates fanart and fan theories and all that shit by the truckload. It won the Audience Choice Award at the Game Awards, which for our purposes matters a lot more than the actual GotY award. All the pieces were lined up for Fire Emblem to surge this contest, and for 3H to act as a rising tide for Awakening in the process, just as P5 boosted P4G. Taking 3H to Division Finals was an easy pick for a lot of people, and taking it to Quarterfinals was pretty common.

But it didnt happen. Not at all. Before we even saw 3H in action, we watched Awakening fail to impress against Deus Ex. Already alarm bells were being set off for those of us that bought into the hype, but hey, maybe Awakening didnt end up being affected. 3H itself should do fine, right?

Well, while there were arguments over what constituted fine, it was failing the eye test pretty hard. Its first opponent was South Park, which doesnt have much reason to be strong other than brand recognition (which did a fat lotta good for DBZ). A little over a doubling sounded ok-ish, but it wasnt the drubbing we wanted to see from the latest and greatest Fire Emblem game.

The next Round brought on Ori and the Blind Forest, fresh from a strong upset. But again, Fire Emblem wasnt putting in the ass-kicking required for it to remain the favorite for reaching Division Finals. 62% looked all the worse when GTAV broke 60 on Cuphead just the day before, and we all expected Cuphead to be appreciably strong than Ori (and it was).

I was getting very antsy at this point. I was one of the biggest 3H shills on the board in the days leading up to the contest, and here it was embarrassing me. Maybe, I thought, just maybe, Xenoblade was a fraud and putting big numbers on multiplayer shooters wasnt really THAT impressive.

Lol no. The Fire Emblem vs Xenoblade match had to be the single most bracket voted match of the contest, as B8ers who expected the world of Fire Emblem were desperately trying to push it over Xenoblade; this, on top of FE having a good board vote. It was 50-50 at the freeze. First update? 55-45 for Xenoblade. It was one of, if not THE, biggest freeze -> first update jumps wed seen all contest, at least in a match that mattered. That update single-handedly annihilated a LOT of expert brackets. The cookie had 3H getting to Quarters, for fucks sake! 55-45 is already terrible when the massive favorite was on the losing side, but Xenoblade kept climbing. And climbing. This ended up being a 60-40 match. As outlined in my 2017 write-up, 60-40 is officially the point where the match was never actually debatable, and one side was just wrong. Nintendo SFF mitigates the sting a bit, but almost all of us expected Fire Emblem to be the one exerting that SFF. And why the hell wouldnt we? Fire Emblem is the bigger name. It has more games. Its sold better. It SHOULD be higher up on the pecking order than a game that came out in the twilight years of the Wii as a Gamestop exclusive, and then on a 3DS revision no one owned.

I mean, come on, Fire Emblem even has WAY MORE characters in Smash!

oh.

Yes, when the match was over and we were all left sifting through the debris, trying to figure out what the fuck had just happened, the leading explanation that came about was that Fire Emblem was getting antivoted HARD by Smash fans, still salty at Byleth getting included over Dante and KOS-MOS and all the other characters people were actually expecting. Another Fire Emblem character?! goes a billion posts on the Smash board, in YouTube reaction videos, and all over Twitter.

Do I buy this theory? Honestly, yes. Yes I do. Being a part of the Smash community, I 100% believe theyd be petty enough to vote against Fire Emblem because Byleth took a spot away from whatever obscure F-list character they wanted on the roster. Even at locals Id overhear people talking about how disappointed they were with the choice, though I did have a great set with one of the best Byleth players in Michigan.

And whats the alternative theory? The Switch had done a lot of good for Nintendo this contest, and Three Houses being a recent, high-profile, well-loved release should have made it a real contender. Smash anti-votes are as good an explanation as any for why it seems that the series hasnt budged an inch. It could just be that Fire Emblem has a definitive ceiling on this site, in which case nothing is gonna give it the boost we thought it was going to get. Either way, I made a thread during its last match claiming that the series was THE Turd of the Contest, and now that its all over I can say that nothing has changed my mind about that. They didnt just lose debatable matches, they got punkd in them, and even in victory they looked underwhelming as shit.

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MechanicalWall
05/24/20 10:30:46 AM
#210:


Headliner Analysis:

This honestly might be the only write-up where the Bust analysis is longer than the Headliner analysis. Yes, in case the header didnt make it clear, its another year where there was only one clear highlight, and I was stuck with a bunch of games that didnt really deserve the title. Like I did with Pokemon/Mario Galaxy and DOOM/Dark Souls III, I decided on both Sekiro and DMCV because their cases were both equally good, or to put it more honestly, bad.

Im sure there are some people who saw Sekiro in the Headliners section and were stunned, because it wasnt terribly unpopular to pick it over Monster Hunter. But lets keep this in perspective. Like I said in my 2018 write-up, Monster Hunter has a monster profile, and personally, I never thought it would drop that match.

Sekiros a game that only really looks good in retrospect, though. It started the contest getting a pedestrian 58% on Ni No Kuni, a game that I THOUGHT had faded from relevance. No one gave a shit about its sequel, and the original ended up being pretty controversial because of its shit battle system. Sekiro, meanwhile, was always going to be the squeaky wheel amongst the FROM games in bracket. Im going to copy and paste a post I made in Ultis thread about this, because its easier than writing new words:

Honestly, the reasons it didn't do anywhere near as well as the other FROM games are:

A) It's one of the newest games in bracket, and FROM's games often gain strength over time via bandwagoning and people evangelizing for them on every corner of the Internet. Look at where Dark Souls & Bloodborne were in 2015 vs where they are now.

B) That said, I don't think the Dark Souls fanbase has embraced Sekiro anywhere near as much as they did Bloodborne. The PvP and multiplayer component in those games matter A LOT to them. So do the games' longevity thanks to the different builds, fashion souls, and obscure lore. Sekiro just doesn't have any of that, and in the inverse of the rest of FROM's games, this might actually be the strongest it'll be.

So this initial match was the ho-hum result we expected, and with Monster Hunter putting an almost identical number against Bravely Default, it was pretty clear Sekiro was done for. The two games met in Round 2, with another ho-hum 55-45 style match. Not horrible for Sekiro, but not particularly amazing or striking. It was just another match in the bottom half of Division 1, featuring a bunch of games pretty close in strength to one another.

It wasnt until the DQXI and Zelda match that we realized that, yes, while these games were all decently close to one another, they were operating on a higher baseline than we thought. Case in point, Ni No Kuni is projected to be stronger than FFXV. Yes, really. While this hardly makes Sekiro some powerhouse, it did turn out to be pretty decent, and not THAT far behind Dark Souls III.

As for the other Headliner that barely deserves to be here, DMCV wasnt even expected to make it to Round 2. It had to deal with Donkey Kong, after all, a game whose leading man looked pretty good in 2018!

But heres the thing. If youve read this entire analysis, or at least the snubs lists, you should know that GameFAQs doesnt actually like NINTENDO that much. The characters, sure, but not the games. We like Mario, we like Zelda, we like Smash, and we like a couple of Metroid and Pokemon games. Thats it. Donkey Kongs strength as a character wasnt gonna translate to his game.

Meanwhile, DMC is a series that has been up and down on GFAQs. DMC1 and DMC3 were OK in 2010. Just OK. NONE of the games made any of the general games contests, implying they just dont get enough noms to show up when the barrier of entry gets hitched up. Dante himself is the only decently strong thing from the series.

So, here we had two entries whose main characters are significantly stronger than the games themselves. I can kinda see why people got tripped up on this match, but heres the thing: DMCV is available on PS4, Xbone, and PC. Tropical Freeze released on the Wii U, nuff said. Yes, its on Switch, but as a six year old port being sold for SIXTY dollars. Nintendo gets away with a LOT because everyone gets so limp-wristed when it comes to them, but SIXTY dollars was taking too much piss for a lot of people. You need some VERY significant additions for your half-a-decade old game to sell to anyone but ultra fans at SIXTY dollars; New Funky Mode aint gonna cut it. The final 57-43 match says it all: DMCs recent-ish hype was enough for it to put a decent number on a six year old platformer that has only ever had one solitary strong entry in its series, and even then it needs 90s hax to bolster it.

If it sounds like Im struggling to talk about DMC itself, its because I am. Heres why: Its hard for me to celebrate a good upset when in the following round, it couldnt even break 30 on Mario Odyssey. All this really tells me is that Tropical Freeze suuuuuuuuuucks, and while its good to get an unexpected easy win, it doesnt count for much when your opponent suuuuuuuuucks.

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MechanicalWall
05/24/20 10:32:52 AM
#211:


Headliner Analysis continued:

But there was another Capcom game that came out this year, one that actually fckin did stuff in this contest. Resident Evil 2 had a special bonus modifier that allowed it to sneak into Division Finals: it was actually a 90s game in a bracket full of modern stuff! Just kidding, of course. While a lot of people were hemming and hawing over HGSS and P4G being included, there was really no reason to be wary of RE2s inclusion. Its a straight-up remake, with completely overhauled gameplay, graphics, voice acting, pretty much everything other than the basic layout of the environments and plot.

Yes, theres no doubt being a game that strongly evoked the PS1-era helped it get a leg-up on the competition, but it had a legitimately good run regardless. It provided a valuable contribution on Blowout Day, the fourth day of the contest where the bottom half of Division 2 was running amok with 80+ percent wins. RE2s opponent, Danganronpa 2, is hardly some powerhouse, but unlike INSIDE, which DOOM was wrecking in the adjacent match, it at least has some sort of brand. Danganronpa is decently recognizable, or at least, Monokuma is decently recognizable. So a big win here was a nice flex.

Still, there was a moment of pause for those who had RE2 > DOOM. When you think about it, BOTH games strongly evoke the 90s, and both had creamed their opponents. Their match was one of the most debated going into Round 2, despite no one really talking about it pre-contest. Personally, I wasnt worried. INSIDE has a generic name and a generic match picture, while DOOM is an elder statesman of gaming that would naturally hoover up a lot of apathy votes.

And I was right to not be worried. For all the hype that went into this match, RE2 didnt even end up breaking its knife on DOOM; the 58-42 result was roughly what many expected pre-contest. DOOM just kinda fell apart when it didnt have to face an opponent that no one fckin recognized, though I would also argue that in the considerable amount of time between Round 1 and Round 2, a lot of the memeing surrounding Eternal had started to die down. Who knows how much the Meme Factor matters, but a new major release in FFVII had just come out and blunted a lot of DOOMs momentum. RE3 coming out just a few days earlier definitely didnt hurt RE2, as it drew a bunch of RE fans back to the site.

This match was only the first debate that centered around RE2, however. Bloodborne had just finished clowning Awakening, making its rally potential known. This was another junction that had RE2 backers nervous, but this time, that nervousness ended up being much more warranted. I already went over the RE2/BB match in great detail in my 2015 analysis, so instead of more words, Im just going to put up the little memes I made during this clusterfuck.

When Bloodborne was ahead:


When RE2 was ahead:


When it was all over:


Ah yes, good times were had by all. RE2 only making it by the skin of its teeth made it the slight underdog to Mass Effect 2, but it was still yet another highly debated match. RE2 had to be at the center of the most debates this contest, alongside Skyrim having people for and against it in Division, Quarter, and Semifinals.

Unfortunately for those hoping for more fireworks at the end of the highly contentious Division 2, the ME2/RE2 match was the dreaded 52-48 affair. Not close enough to be exciting, not far enough for one side to make fun of the other. Really anticlimactic end for RE2s great run, and it was the first remake port thing to fall in Division Finals. Crazy how all of them made it to top 16, and not a single one managed to break into top 8. Probably for the best, honestly.

Other Thoughts:

This year didnt just have a decent supply of fodder; it had a LOT of straight-up turbofodder. Some of it was expected, but a lot wasnt.

Like, OK, Slay the Spire is some roguelike card thing. Baba is You is a hardass puzzle game with an off-putting title. Obviously theyd be horribly weak. But whats the excuse for Mortal Kombat 11 being bottom ten of the entire bracket, sharing space with a bunch of obscure indie games? Yah Ive mentioned the microtransaction shitstorm, but that eventually cleared up. This is a big name brand! It shouldnt be on par with the Talos Principle and the Stanley Parable.

Death Stranding was slightly better off, but its really sad to see what was the most hyped game of the year (newest one in bracket, too) slum it up with Disco Elysium and Tales of Berseria. This is a game with Kojimas name on the box, and in another world could have been a top 20 entrant. It wasnt just a case of not living up to the hype; it simply was not the kind of game people wanted to play. I really like it, personally, but I would never recommend it to anyone but those who are truly begging for something completely different

The Outer Worlds was another bottom 40 entry, and BotWs first victim, though that one is a little more understandable. Not only is it really new, but it also isnt that good lol. It was a game with a pretty strong honeymoon period, but it seemed like the entire Internet came to the collective realization that just because we hate Bethesda doesnt mean we have to pretend that the Outer Worlds is some masterpiece. It had all the usual Bethesda jank, technical issues, shitty gunplay, and lacking presentation, without the strong sense of freedom that those games provide.

Bloodstained came out looking alright, though. Which is good, because it was the best game that came out last year, and also the best Metroidvania to come out in more than a decade. King IGA finally returns!

So yes, this analysis ends on a whimper. Im actually tempted to dish out one final F, but honestly, that grade is reserved for years that only had two or three games make it past Round 1. While KHIII and 3H were disappointing, they at least made it somewhere, alongside RE2, Sekiro, and DMCV. These games collectively raise the baseline JUST ENOUGH for this year to avoid joining 2014 and 2016 at the bottom of the pile.

Final Grade:

D - Scrapes together enough mediocre performances to avoid failing, but just barely.

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streamofthesky
05/24/20 12:06:20 PM
#212:


Astral Chain was a huge snub. One of the best games of the year, along w/ Bloodstained.
I don't see FE 3H going to round 3 being a bust, but you seem to have waaaay more stock in it than me, and also seem to doubt the greatness of Xenoblade by assuming it had to be Smash anti-voters....

Death Stranding getting destroyed in round 1 by a game that went on to be destroyed itself the very next round was the most satisfying moment of the contest. I think 2019 was pretty good, at least a C. but then I remember DS exists and the D seems more fair. :p

MechanicalWall posted...
As for Cadence of Hyrule, I hope Allen didnt count it as a Zelda game, because it really isnt. Its very blatantly a Crypt of the Necrodancer game FEATURING Zelda shit. I really wish it had gotten in, because it would have been the ultimate test of how far Links mere presence can push a game. Is one glimpse of his dumb hat enough for voters to vote something into Round 2 or 3?
Well, I argued the same for Hyrule Warriors really being a Musou/Warriors game w/ a Zelda paint job when you said you excluded it from your 2014 snubs list due to a 2-game limit (Zelda series).... Not sure how this situation is different.
I agree it (Cadence) is a snub, and don't see why it wouldn't deserve making it to round 2, it is a good game...

Im not entirely clear WHY KHIII is so hated, personally. Yah the scripts shit, but uh, hello? Its ALWAYS been shit. Yes, even in KHI.
Agreed. I hated KH from the start, never saw the appeal other than the music (the one bright spot in any Square game). Maybe like w/ the newest Pokemon and its "scandal" (which as Jim Sterling and others pointed out, was no more scummy than anything else the series has done), it wasn't about it being worse, but rather the fans of the series finally waking up and recognizing the bs.

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LinkMarioSamus
05/24/20 12:26:15 PM
#213:


Mortal Kombat is probably a similar case to Donkey Kong where the characters are stronger than the games. Notice that Sub-Zero actually did better against Auron in 2018 than he did in 2006, though to be fair that could easily be explained by Auron being fresh off of KH2 in '06 vs. Sub-Zero's franchise becoming more prominent since then.

Interesting to see you like Death Stranding since Ulti likened it to SOTC, which we both like a lot. I will say that I personally never really understood why Ulti rags on SOTC for being "empty" when that's the whole point of the game - that it has nothing but the boss fights.

Actually yeah, how could someone hate that game so much? I don't think it's flawless or anything, but seriously what the heck? Even more jarring since there are a few others on the board who feel similarly about that game, but otherwise even people who dislike the game typically admit it does a lot well and just has some crippling gameplay flaws.

Also how does Ulti like MGS2/4 so much when he hates Death Stranding about as much?

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streamofthesky
05/24/20 12:29:42 PM
#214:


Yeah, I've never really been into the MK games and from everything I've seen, they're pretty inferior to SF for game play.
But I love the characters and world. Saw both of the movies (first was good, at least), watched the cartoon... Mortal Kombat Conquest remains one of the most tragic "1 season only" shows ever to me, it was my absolute favorite thing to come out of the MK franchise.
But I couldn't give less of a shit about the actual games.
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Kamekguy
05/24/20 12:42:18 PM
#215:


From what I can tell, MK11 just collapsed post-release. It put a lot of its eggs into the "custom moveset" basket that Smash 4 did before it, but only some of those moves ended up being tournament-legal, and then one character with a boring, predictable, safe playstyle (Geras) came to prominence, only SonicFox really keeping a public eye on the game. It was also TOO violent for YouTube, like even the trailers would get demonetized, so its word of mouth died quickly because no one in that sphere really wanted to make content for the game unless they were already heavy into Netherealm products. And then reports came out that devs were diagnosed with PTSD by therapists after working on the game because of how accurately they made the fatalities and the "study material" necessary for that, to the point where a dev admitted he couldn't see his dog without looking at the organs and viscera inside, which was REALLY bad press. The game fizzled out super fast and got no EVO spotlight until its good netcode carried it over the broken bodies of Smash and Street Fighter. Plus the usual predatory practices, even if they went away, kneecapped it.

Honestly I'm more shocked that it made the contest over MKX! Compare to a game like Odyssey, where all the bad you can say about it is "in retrospect, it isn't QUITE as amazing in the post-game" or "sand world too big", and it getting smashed as hard as it did was more an inevitability than the simple comparison of Tekken Vs Mortal Kombat would lead one to believe. Not that I didn't take Odyssey > Smash in second chance - I totally did based on the Tekken/MK comparison - but the game had every reason to suffer.

Thanks for putting these out, by the way, super engrossing reads! Would love to hear your opinion on DQXI sometime, I rather greatly enjoyed my time with that game and am curious as to your disdain for it. You do the words good.

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MechanicalWall
05/24/20 1:41:59 PM
#216:


streamofthesky posted...
Warriors really being a Musou/Warriors game w/ a Zelda paint job when you said you excluded it from your 2014 snubs list due to a 2-game limit (Zelda series).... Not sure how this situation is different.
I feel like Cadence of Hyrule is much more explicitly not a Zelda game, while Hyrule Warriors is in a greyer area. Your perspective could very well be 100% correct!

Kamekguy posted...
Would love to hear your opinion on DQXI sometime, I rather greatly enjoyed my time with that game and am curious as to your disdain for it.
To be honest, it's one of those games where I don't really have any specific set of points that I can elaborate on at great length.

After playing for 15 hours I just knew in my gut that I wasn't that into it. Honestly it might have entirely been my mindset at the time; I think in my mind I was constantly comparing it to Persona 5, which felt really slick and sexy and tackled some interesting contemporary themes, where DQXI felt a little TOO old-school and toothless in comparison.

It's not really a fair comparison, I know, and DQXI is a game I've wanted to revisit at some point and give a second chance, probably the Switch version.

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streamofthesky
05/24/20 1:44:28 PM
#217:


Kamekguy posted...
It was also TOO violent for YouTube, like even the trailers would get demonetized, so its word of mouth died quickly because no one in that sphere really wanted to make content for the game unless they were already heavy into Netherealm products. And then reports came out that devs were diagnosed with PTSD by therapists after working on the game because of how accurately they made the fatalities and the "study material" necessary for that, to the point where a dev admitted he couldn't see his dog without looking at the organs and viscera inside, which was REALLY bad press.
Wow, I never even heard about that before!
I wasn't even going to bother bringing up the sexist character designs and why that pissed off a lot of longtime fans, but when put side by side with just how insanely gory the game is to the point that it fucked up the people working on it, the hypocrisy is just too much.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/03/29/liana-kerzner-mortal-kombat-11s-changes-to-female-characters-is-sexist/

Beran noted:
Our design is just getting more mature and respectful. Youre not going to wear a bikini to a fight. Youre not going to be showing so much skin. I think its just what the game is about: Youre going in to fight for your life, and youre not going to be wearing such scantily clad items.
He would add, Im sure that will disappoint some fans. We dont have bathing suit fighters, and I think thats fine. If people are disappointed, I dont regret making that change by any means.
(mind you, there's still plenty of dudes with bare chests and other unprotected areas)

Seriously, go fuck yourself NRS.
You don't get to be selectively preachy while pushing the most graphically violent game in the series, to the point that you drove your own developers to therapy!
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MechanicalWall
05/24/20 1:54:09 PM
#218:


Y'know, I do vaguely remember hearing about those PTSD articles, but I never really looked into them. If voters were keeping that kind of stuff in mind I guess it isn't that surprising MK11 did so poorly.

LinkMarioSamus posted...
I will say that I personally never really understood why Ulti rags on SOTC for being "empty" when that's the whole point of the game - that it has nothing but the boss fights.
The emptiness serves the game on every level imo. Story-wise, it's supposed to clue you in that these Colossi are not actually threatening anyone or anything, and that you are VERY clearly the aggressor who's slaughtering them for ultimately selfish reasons.
Gameplay-wise it helps pace the game a bit and provide some trough to all the boss fight peaks, and provide some non-combat challenge with having to navigate the world itself.

Death Stranding is similar, but the thing is, I think looking at it with the mindset that the world is 'empty' is the wrong mindset. The world, specifically the environment, IS the challenge of the game. With the game's emphasis on balance and momentum, just getting across a small riven is akin to having to clear a mob in an action game.

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PrinceOfKoopas
05/24/20 2:12:10 PM
#219:


MechanicalWall posted...


As for Cadence of Hyrule, I hope Allen didnt count it as a Zelda game, because it really isnt. Its very blatantly a Crypt of the Necrodancer game FEATURING Zelda shit. I really wish it had gotten in, because it would have been the ultimate test of how far Links mere presence can push a game. Is one glimpse of his dumb hat enough for voters to vote something into Round 2 or 3?

I'd think it'd be similar to Epona getting to Round 2 in 2013.

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MechanicalWall
05/25/20 12:36:11 PM
#220:


Reflection and Final Thoughts:

I'm pretty happy with how this project turned out, as a whole. Maybe the 'Headliner-Bust' system didn't entirely work out as intended; the whole point of it was to be able to zoom in on the more interesting games and matches in bracket and avoid having to do a PCA for every single match. Considering how weak or strong some years were, though, it often meant slapping those labels onto games that didn't wholly deserve them and talking about games that weren't actually very interesting. Still, at the end of the day, it forced me to be creative and generated some conversation.

The main point of the project was to examine what each year provided us and how they performed in bracket, and I think that aspect of it came together pretty well. Interestingly, over the course of these write-ups you can easily identify the 'boom and bust' cycle of the games industry: outside 2017 and 2018, you won't see an excellent year followed up with another excellent year. It's often one big blowout every couple of years, and that's your lot. It's not surprising, I suppose, as games get more and more expensive and time consuming to make. Gone are the days of companies like Rockstar and Capcom being able to pump out high quality games year in year out. If I were to do an equivalent analysis of Game of the Decade 1, I don't think the peaks and troughs would be as stark as they are in this one. Of course, as the snubs sections illustrate, there were a couple of years that would have been decently boosted had they swapped some games in and out, but you gotta compete with what you have.

Even if you strip away most of my commentary, you have a decent little reference tool. When I move these write-ups to the wiki I'm considering beefing up the value of this analysis by including the adjusted x-stat of each game alongside how far it got in bracket; while KP's stats aren't the end all be all and can be debated somewhat, no one's provided numbers as robust as his, and for that they are greatly appreciated.

But let's put together a couple of more lists before we're done here!

Here's how I believe each year performed within the contest in relation to each other, ranked from best to worst:

1) 2017
2) 2018
3) 2011
4) 2015
5) 2013
6) 2010
7) 2019
8) 2012
9) 2016
10) 2014

Yes, after some thought, I ultimately decided on 2014 being the worse of the 'F' years. Only two games made it past Round 1, and Shovel Knight only by the skin of its teeth despite being in a pretty weak fourpack. It was THE most upset year as well. In retrospect, it was a pretty obvious choice.

Every other choice was pretty straight forward; I wavered a bit at 2nd place, but 2018 really did come through with a LOT of strong games that made decent runs in bracket, along with the biggest round 1 upset courtesy of Octopath. You don't really see a notable drop in quality until 2019, which is when things really got rickety.

And just for funsies, here's my PERSONAL ranking of each year, completely divorced from the contest and based purely off my own opinion of their full libraries:

1) 2017
2) 2015
3) 2019
4) 2010
5) 2013
6) 2011
7) 2018
8) 2014
9) 2016
10) 2012

Crazy how 2017 has the most entrants in bracket by far, and it was STILL underrepresented. I didn't even include some of my personal favorites on the snubs list that year like Wolfenstein II, Life is Strange Before the Storm, and The Evil Within 2, on top of shit like Gravity Rush 2, Senua's Sacrifice, and A Hat in Time not making the cut. I won't go on huge gushing lecture about every single year's best games; maybe I will in another post, but I'll keep this outro concise.

I'm pretty happy that I started this project; it rejuvenated my love for writing, and gave me some inspiration for further projects. Not even board projects, just gaming topics that I've wanted to explore for a while. When I finally get my hands on some editing software I can put my Journalism and Screen Studies degree to use and start putting some videos out, which is what I REALLY want to do.

Anyhow, I think that's a wrap. I'm going to start the process of further proofreading and fact-checking and moving these analyses to the Wiki soon, where hopefully, sometime in the future, they might help someone put together their next Games bracket. It was only through the use of x-stats and Ulti's PCAs that I managed to get 5th place in this contest, and I hope to help people in the same way. I'm keeping this thread bumped in the meantime so it doesn't disappear into the void.

Thank you all for reading! I hope you got SOMETHING out of all the ranting and raving!

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PrinceOfKoopas
05/25/20 12:53:29 PM
#221:


Thank you for the write-ups! They were enjoyable.

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ZenOfThunder
05/25/20 12:55:00 PM
#222:


great topic series, underappreciated IMO. thank you for putting all this together and make sure it's backed up properly!!

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streamofthesky
05/25/20 12:56:04 PM
#223:


Yeah, thank you. What an undertaking!
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MechanicalWall
05/25/20 1:54:15 PM
#224:


I gotta say, the Wiki feels REALLY temperamental. I hit 'Add' in, put in an article name, and it hits me with an infinite loading screen. I got one page up, so I know I'm doing it right...

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ctesjbuvf
05/25/20 7:06:53 PM
#225:


Yeah, this was a great topic. Hope you'll do similar things in the future, it was a good read!

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MetalmindStats
05/25/20 9:06:19 PM
#226:


MechanicalWall posted...
I gotta say, the Wiki feels REALLY temperamental. I hit 'Add' in, put in an article name, and it hits me with an infinite loading screen. I got one page up, so I know I'm doing it right...
You have to log in so you can change your settings to use the classic editor, because the new one doesn't work right on the B8 Wiki. It looks like you already figured that out though, so I guess I'll just leave this ITT so other future B8 Wiki contributors know or something.

Anyways, thank you for this awesome project! I'm going to level with you, there's some comments I chose not to post later on because I felt they were just too undeservedly nitpicky, if that says anything.

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MechanicalWall
05/27/20 10:34:40 AM
#227:


Up

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cyko
05/27/20 11:09:59 PM
#228:


Even thoigh our opinions seem to differ on a number of things, This was Excellent to read. Kudos and well done!


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cyko
05/27/20 11:14:02 PM
#229:


streamofthesky posted...
Wow, I never even heard about that before!
I wasn't even going to bother bringing up the sexist character designs and why that pissed off a lot of longtime fans, but when put side by side with just how insanely gory the game is to the point that it fucked up the people working on it, the hypocrisy is just too much.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/03/29/liana-kerzner-mortal-kombat-11s-changes-to-female-characters-is-sexist/

Beran noted:
(mind you, there's still plenty of dudes with bare chests and other unprotected areas)

Seriously, go fuck yourself NRS.
You don't get to be selectively preachy while pushing the most graphically violent game in the series, to the point that you drove your own developers to

I definitely see the hypocrisy in claiming that an unbelievably violent game is sensitive to people's ideals.

But on the other hand, is that lady really complaining the game is sexist because the females wear too MUCH clothing? I felt like I was in bizarro world reading that - like there's no way this lady is for real, right? She has to be trolling the internet.

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streamofthesky
05/27/20 11:36:42 PM
#230:


cyko posted...
I definitely see the hypocrisy in claiming that an unbelievably violent game is sensitive to people's ideals.

But on the other hand, is that lady really complaining the game is sexist because the females wear too MUCH clothing? I felt like I was in bizarro world reading that - like there's no way this lady is for real, right? She has to be trolling the internet.
Saying women need to be covered up and implying things about their morality if they dress provocatively is sexist. Allowing men to be portrayed in various states of dress and undress but not women is sexist.
Treating women / female characters differently because you think they need to be "protected" is sexist. Because its rooted in a sexist, patronizing view that women are somehow weaker or more limited than men in how they can be portrayed. She described it perfectly, "benevolent sexism."

Yeah, no, I dont want to reward the idea that men can only respect women if we have almost no skin showing. Thats dated and Puritan and its not empowering. So unless theres an apology or correction I will not be buying #MK11. There are too many other games out there.
Liana Kerzner (Princess Sparklemuffin) (@redlianak) March 28, 2019

Believe it or not, before the radical wave of anti-sex feminists took over and made the entire movement into a joke, most feminists were fairly PRO- sex and allowing female sexuality to be depicted and discussed. Because for most of our history, those in power have discouraged and suppressed it. The (far) left wing has literally done a 180 on its position on this issue in the past decade or so.
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Mac Arrowny
05/28/20 12:04:22 AM
#231:


do you really think the ladies in MK were scantily clad as a statement about being sex positive
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cyko
05/28/20 12:09:10 AM
#232:


So now it's sexist for female characters to wear no clothes AND for female characters to wear too many clothes?

I am pretty sure that at this point anything a person does is going to offend someone.

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streamofthesky
05/28/20 12:10:30 AM
#233:


Mac Arrowny posted...
do you really think the ladies in MK were scantily clad as a statement about being sex positive
No. But they were covered up b/c apparently they can't be taken seriously otherwise, per NRS. That's what she takes issue with.
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PostContestUlti
05/28/20 7:40:52 PM
#234:


@MechanicalWall

You really don't need entire pages to be in bold for a wiki page, bro.

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MechanicalWall
05/28/20 11:08:55 PM
#235:


PostContestUlti posted...
@MechanicalWall

You really don't need entire pages to be in bold for a wiki page, bro.
@PostContestUlti Trust me, that's not a personal flourish. The text gets copied in as bold and absolutely refuses to 'unbold', both in the initial creation and editing after its been published.

You seem to be doing it though so clearly something's wrong on my end. Fandom just feels very glitchy across the board.

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