Current Events > i don't get why link just didn't pull out the master sword in the temple of time

(+) Yeah! (+)

doing so is what caused ganon to enter the sacred realm and take control of hyrule

He couldn't pull out the sword until he was ready to wield it.

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because then the game would just end after getting the spiritual stones

or heck, don't even bother getting the stones either

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I read the title wrong sorry.

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Wii_Shaker posted...

He couldn't pull out the sword until he was ready to wield it.

yeah but the reason he has to save hyrule in the future is because as a kid he pulled the sword, breaking the seal and allowing ganon to enter the sacred realm

he could've just, you know...not

HylianFox posted...

because then the game would just end after getting the spiritual stones

or heck, don't even bother getting the stones either

yeah so now i'm like "wait what did we need the spirit stones for in the first place?"

I get this is all "Destiny" and whatever but i mean. it seems more like a self fulfilling prophecy. did i miss something? lol

then he'd never be able to save zelda, even in the future

i think idk it's been forever since i played it

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Guerrilla Soldier posted...

then he'd never be able to save zelda, even in the future

i think idk it's been forever since i played it

but zelda wouldn't need saving because ganondorf wouldn't have any power

GirTheRobot posted...

yeah but the reason he has to save hyrule in the future is because as a kid he pulled the sword, breaking the seal and allowing ganon to enter the sacred realm

he could've just, you know...not

Plot reasons. I think they actually elaborate in the LoZ:OoT manga.

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GirTheRobot posted...

yeah but the reason he has to save hyrule in the future is because as a kid he pulled the sword, breaking the seal and allowing ganon to enter the sacred realm

he could've just, you know...not

I think once he pulled it Ganondorf was in the sacred land so even if he went back it was too late to change that.

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Well, he didnt know that was going to happen

I don't think he knew what was going to happen until after the fact(and once he pulled it out he couldn't undo it for plot reasons).

Otherwise yeah, OoT could just end after getting the first stone. Hell, Link could just give the stone to Saria and Ganondorf never finds out.

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Bleuets posted...

Well, he didnt know that was going to happen

yeah i guess this makes sense

so it was basically foretold that the hero of time would pull the master sword from the temple of time, but no one knew it would cause ganondorf to take over?

I never questioned any of this. wtf.

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GirTheRobot posted...

but zelda wouldn't need saving because ganondorf wouldn't have any power

but Zelda (and Impa) flee after you get the stones

which is another reason why it would be better to just not get them

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Umbreon posted...

I don't think he knew what was going to happen until after the fact(and once he pulled it out he couldn't undo it for plot reasons).

Well yeah, hindsight is 20/20

Even Zelda is all like "oops, we really fucked up" during the epilogue

Of course, by sending Link back in time she further fucks things up by effectively "erasing" Link from the future timeline, which leads to the events that precede The Wind Waker...

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HylianFox posted...

but Zelda (and Impa) flee after you get the stones

which is another reason why it would be better to just not get them

yeah but i feel like after a few years they would have been fine. ganondorf would have been defeated because he wouldn't have had the triforce. compared to what happens otherwise lol.

HylianFox posted...

Well yeah, hindsight is 20/20

Even Zelda is all like "oops, we really fucked up" during the epilogue

Of course, by sending Link back in time she further fucks things up by effectively "erasing" Link from the future timeline, which leads to the events that precede The Wind Waker...

ah okay. i'm replaying OoT (as master quest) for the first time in like 15 years, so i don't remember zelda saying that in the epilogue.

so am i right about the story then? basically there was some grand prophecy passed down for generations that a young hero would pull the sword from the pedestal? and ganon just seized that opportunity to take over?

what confuses me though is that in other games Link can use the Master Sword just fine despite still being a kid (The Wind Waker, and ALttP maybe? he looks a bit older in the ALttP artwork than in the game itself...)

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I recall that Ganondorf was making plans to try and conquer Hyrule regardless of what Link did, and the only reason history was changed is because Link provided proof of Ganondorf's schemes after being send back that last time, which resulted in Ganondorf's capture before he could do anything more.

If Link never went after the stones, got pulled into the future, Ganondorf would have eventually succeeded on some level anyway. Consider that in the "revised" timeline, Link has not yet helped the Gorons or Zoras, and the Great Deku Tree is still dead. That's all things Ganondorf did trying to get the stones to enter the Sacred Realm and failing that, he still crippled several domains and was likely doing other things to weaken his enemies.

Hell, the reason Zelda and Impa are forced to flee is because Ganondorf had progressed "plan B" (gradual coup of Hyrule) far enough after "plan A" (get Triforce) didn't pan out for him, and thus the sudden urgency for Link to get the Master Sword went from "stop Ganondorf before he strikes" to "stop Ganondorf before it gets worse".
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The Catgirl Fondler posted...

the sudden urgency for Link to get the Master Sword went from "stop Ganondorf before he strikes" to "stop Ganondorf before it gets worse".

but the kicker is things *did* get worse precisely because Link took the Master Sword

although I suppose the point is Ganondorf would have wrecked Hyrule regardless of Link being sealed away or not (though without the Triforce of Power)

your point about killing the Deku Tree and attacking the Gorons/Zoras is valid too, he was causing considerable havoc even without the ToP

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The Catgirl Fondler posted...

I recall that Ganondorf was making plans to try and conquer Hyrule regardless of what Link did, and the only reason history was changed is because Link provided proof of Ganondorf's schemes after being send back that last time, which resulted in Ganondorf's capture before he could do anything more.

If Link never went after the stones, got pulled into the future, Ganondorf would have eventually succeeded on some level anyway. Consider that in the "revised" timeline, Link has not yet helped the Gorons or Zoras, and the Great Deku Tree is still dead. That's all things Ganondorf did trying to get the stones to enter the Sacred Realm and failing that, he still crippled several domains and was likely doing other things to weaken his enemies.

Hell, the reason Zelda and Impa are forced to flee is because Ganondorf had progressed "plan B" (gradual coup of Hyrule) far enough after "plan A" (get Triforce) didn't pan out for him, and thus the sudden urgency for Link to get the Master Sword went from "stop Ganondorf before he strikes" to "stop Ganondorf before it gets worse".

all good points bro

Another issue is that even if Ganondorf *did* get the 3 stones and the OoT... it's doubtful that he would be able to enter the Sacred Realm because of the Master Sword blocking the entrance...

hmm... he pretty much needed Link to do the dirty work for him.

also, did Ganondorf know the Song of Time?

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HylianFox posted...

Another issue is that even if Ganondorf *did* get the 3 stones and the OoT... it's doubtful that he would be able to enter the Sacred Realm because of the Master Sword blocking the entrance...

hmm... he pretty much needed Link to do the dirty work for him.

also, did Ganondorf know the Song of Time?

yeah i have a conspiracy theory that ganondorf or one of his cronies passed down this "prophecy" from generation to generation what do you think?

HylianFox posted...

but the kicker is things *did* get worse precisely because Link took the Master Sword

although I suppose the point is Ganondorf would have wrecked Hyrule regardless of Link being sealed away or not (though without the Triforce of Power)

your point about killing the Deku Tree and attacking the Gorons/Zoras is valid too, he was causing considerable havoc even without the ToP

Yeah, the tragic irony is that Ganondorf was already making his bid for conquest (and already partially succeeded), so if Link didn't go for the Master Sword, what else could have been done at that point? Years-long guerilla war against the new Gerudo Empire?

...Wait, I'm not sure how many fans want *another* timeline split.
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The Catgirl Fondler posted...

Years-long guerilla war against the new Gerudo Empire?

Another thing is that Ganondorf seemed to be acting alone.
Sure, he's the King of the Gerudo, but they seem largely indifferent to him (and even accept Link as one of their own!)

The Gerudo had more respect for Nabooru (even if she was being controlled by Twinrova)

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HylianFox posted...

Another thing is that Ganondorf seemed to be acting alone.
Sure, he's the King of the Gerudo, but they seem largely indifferent to him (and even accept Link as one of their own!)

The Gerudo had more respect for Nabooru (even if she was being controlled by Twinrova)

That might be due to the events that followed as well.

More specifically, the other Gerudo might have been supportive of Ganondorf's coup and possibly assisted in unknown ways, under the assumption that they would benefit as well and because Ganondorf needed them.

But when he got the Triforce of Power, he cut ties with them and that's why they're just sort of meandering around at their fortress because they got cast aside when they were no longer useful to him. Would also account for why they had little qualms with allying with Link; Paypack is a bitch, and there's a whole lotta bitches back there.

Interesting also is the altered fate of Nabooru due to Link's actions. I think she was originally just exiled in Adult Link's time after she was presumably caught conspiring against Ganondorf, but we find out in Child Link's time what she was supposedly doing that got her in trouble and our help in the Spirit Temple caused her to go from being just exiled to imprisoned/brainwashed for several years.
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I'm pretty sure if Link never pulls the Master Sword out, Twilight Princess is what happens. Ganondorf tries a coup, it fails, and he's executed by the other sages.

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The Catgirl Fondler posted...

Interesting also is the altered fate of Nabooru due to Link's actions. I think she was originally just exiled in Adult Link's time after she was presumably caught conspiring against Ganondorf, but we find out in Child Link's time what she was supposedly doing that got her in trouble and our help in the Spirit Temple caused her to go from being just exiled to imprisoned/brainwashed for several years.

...I do not remember this game as well as I thought.

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It's a children's video game, who cares

I dunno, when you first get to the Gerudo Fortress it's already implied that Nabooru is G-dorf's right-hand woman, even though you haven't actually triggered the event that gets her brainwashed yet.

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Ganondorf would have done it eventually anyways. At this rate, at least there was a champion while Ganonforf thought he was making it easier on himself by letting Link take it and the stones. It backfired.

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Here's the thing. Ganondorf was the incarnation of Demise/Ganon and was going to rule the kingdom eventually. Even before he had the Triforce of Power, he had powerful, corrupting magic.

There's nothing stopping Ganondorf from going to collect the sacred stones and the Ocarina for himself. In fact, their hiding places were already corrupted by Ganondorf and the only reason he didn't already have them was that he hadn't made his move to retrieve them yet.

The only way to prevent Ganon from having full control of the kingdom forever was to make sure Link got all the stones, the Ocarina, and the sword before Ganondorf got there first. That way the sages could keep Link and the Master Sword safe long enough to make him ready fight Ganon. If Link didn't take the sword, Ganondorf could have just killed him any time. He had already proven this in the scene with Zelda and Impa fleeing on horseback. Link got his whole ass kicked no contest.

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OoT is so overrated anyway, not a bad game though

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Ganon was planning on it the whole time, and Link+Zelda were totally unaware of what would occur after pulling the sword

That said, there are probably other ways to access the sacred realm beyond just the master sword, since it's been referenced in a few other games. So ganon probably would have gotten the triforce of power either way, since he's destined to do so

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pegusus123456 posted...

I'm pretty sure if Link never pulls the Master Sword out, Twilight Princess is what happens. Ganondorf tries a coup, it fails, and he's executed by the other sages.

Twilight Princess happens because OoT Link got sent back in the end and was able to warn the King of Ganondorf's plans before he set them in motion.
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How come Fi never helped out in OoT? She's still there in Breath of the Wild, which is over 10k years in the future.

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SuperShake666 posted...

How come Fi never helped out in OoT? She's still there in Breath of the Wild, which is over 10k years in the future.

She didn't exist at the time, lol. In universe...maybe she thought one annoying guide was enough?

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Gwynevere posted...

Ganon was planning on it the whole time, and Link+Zelda were totally unaware of what would occur after pulling the sword

Yea it's not like they were expecting him to get the drop on them.

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VFrench2 posted...

It's a children's video game, who cares

it's fun to pretend like this stuff is serious business that actually matters

you ever read those discussions on mario lore? wow.

GirTheRobot posted...

it's fun to pretend like this stuff is serious business that actually matters

you ever read those discussions on mario lore? wow.

Mario has lore?

It's a freaking plumber jumping up and down on monster's heads and killing them to go save a Princess.

I didn't even know there WAS lore --- even Mario RPG which had a "real storyline" was just Mario going to jump on the head of the last boss Smithy

Phantom_Nook posted...

Twilight Princess happens because OoT Link got sent back in the end and was able to warn the King of Ganondorf's plans before he set them in motion.

Yeah, I'd say that Link never pulling the sword could just be an alt path toward the downfall timeline. No one is made aware of Ganon's plans, and he takes control of Hyrule unchallenged, eventually getting the ToP anyway, leading to Link to the Past.

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VFrench2 posted...

Mario has lore?

According to one of the creators, maybe even Miyamoto himself, the Mario crew are just a theater troupe that do a lot of grand performances. Hence why Mario 3 has a stage and curtain aesthetic in the opening. Plus why they don't mind going out and playing Tennis, golf, etc. together.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

According to one of the creators, maybe even Miyamoto himself, the Mario crew are just a theater troupe that do a lot of grand performances.

People like to take that quote out of context. Miyamoto wasn't establishing a set canon, he was saying that he doesn't give a shit about any kind of canon.

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Mario is not any one thing. It's what people missed when they panicked at Nintendo taking away Mario's plumber status for a short time period (which they brought back in less than a year I believe). He's whatever Nintendo needs him to be, much like Mickey Mouse back in the day, or many of the other famous cartoons of our ancestor's heyday.

If they need him to be a plumber, he's a plumber; if they need him to be a chosen hero, he's a chosen hero; if they need him to be a performer for a theater troupe, then he's a god damn performer for a theater troupe. Super Mario the plumber may be his most iconic title, but in reality, he's everything. That's why we've had Doctor Mario, and the athlete Mario's that are more than willing to hang out with the likes of Bowser/Wario/etc.

You could argue that Mario is like Barbie in that regard. To define her by one job is to miss the point of Barbie.

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