Board 8 > ITT I re-watch the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) (spoilers, obviously)

(+) Yeah! (+)

So the girlfriend and I are going to re-watch all of the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies since she's never seen them all and I'm super into all of them. I thought it would be cool to do a little discussion and insight on these movies with the benefit of hindsight on all of them.

We'll probably end up watching all the Disney+ MCU shows too, but we'll see if I can convince her to watch the Netflix shows (is it called Marvel Knights now?). But there is no way in hell I'm watching all of Agents of SHIELD, and Agent Carter is a tall ask too. Don't expect this to be tremendously consistent either. We'll watch when we feel like it, mostly. We've watched the first four already, so I'll catch up with write-ups eventually.

Feel free to discuss this and other MCU stuff as well. Remember the older movies and give your thoughts. I've been enjoying going back to watch these again with the benefit of hindsight.

Iron Man
Release Date: May 2, 2008
Stand-Out Character: Iron Man/Tony Stark (played by Robert Downey Jr.)
Best Scene: Iron Man stops the Ten Rings kidnapping

So this is where it all begins. This is a tremendous start to the whole MCU and it's very clear they wanted to go out of their way with something that's really quality, far more than the usual shit we get out of superhero movies at the time. And with an all-star actor in Robert Downey Jr. no less, who delivers the perfect performance here and really makes this entire film work. He goes from dramatic, to funny, to everything in between. It all just really works out.

The gist of this movie is that Tony Stark is a weapons arms dealer who gets kidnapped and forced to make a missile for the terrorist organization known as the Ten Rings. He is dying but only able to survive due to the power source in his chest keeping shrapnel from killing him. He makes a power armor to fight back and escape captivity and decides to turn his life around to make his company better and help people after seeing the violence that his weapons have caused. However, when he does so, he's still discovering that the weapons are being sold to theise terrorist organizations and goes to put a stop to them. It turns out that his father's old friend and interim CEO of Stark Industries, Obadiah Stane, was behind all of it and had an armor made like Tony's original one to sell to the highest bidders. Tony Stark puts a stop to Obadiah with the Iron Man armor and he ends up declaring that he's Iron Man, creating the MCU's first superhero.

What stands out more than Tony Stark is how well they build this world. It feels authentic in a way, with Stark Industries and the players in Tony's life. Pepper is there to try supporting him however she can. Rhodey is there played by <REDACTED> who is doing his best to protect Tony as his best friend.

And then there's Obadiah Stane: the guy who is trying to pull the strings behind Stark Industries. Jeff Bridges is awesome in this role and I'm legitimately upset we're unlikely to see him reprise this role. Obadiah is equal parts your dad's best friend who acts like he knows better, and then also being a complete menace. He's a ruthless businessman first and a villain second, and the first part is what makes him so scary. When it's revealed he's behind everything Obadiah is a monster to witness. "Tony Stark built this in a cave. WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!" That line still lives in my head because of how well it's performed. The scariest part is that in an organization dealing with the most expensive and deadly weapons in the world, the giant manchild running it is so checked out that he doesn't even realize that there's a guy operating everything to do shady deals to the bad guys to make more money for himself. Obadiah is just tremendous in this film, and if Robert Downey Jr. didn't absolutely kill it, he would easily be the standout of the movie.

On top of that, the action is fun. It's done exceptionally well and every action scene works well. From the opening where Tony is kidnapped, to Tony's escape, his attacks on the Ten Rings and finally his fight with Iron Monger, the action simply works really well. It feels like real throw downs with these heavy machines.

But it's really a character piece for Tony Stark in the end, and it does that well. It gives us a character worth caring about that we see slowly evolve. It's not about stopping a giant terrible plot. It's about a selfish man learning to do what's right and changing to be a better person using the talent he's been given, and the whole story serves to see him slowly evolve. The scenes where he's working on his armor works as well are just fun, mostly because Tony Stark is fun. We love this guy, and it was exactly what they needed to do in order to get us interested in further movies.

Tag/Yea Ironman was really really awesome and it is one of the MCU films that I will sometimes put on just to enjoy Tony Stark.

There's a lot of people who hate the MCU because they just can't stand RDJ and his performance as Tony Stark. That's so unfortunate for those people. He really made magic happen in Iron Man and I feel like he only got better and better as the movies went on. Love him.

AoS is better than any D+ show but yeah it's definitely an investment. Personally I like it more than the Netflix shows too but that's definitely a minority opinion.

Also wanted to shout out the icing problem scene in Iron Man.

Such a good way to show that Tony will push the limits, perhaps dangerously, but he learns things from doing so that others don't necessarily think of.

My quick and dirty on Agents of Shield is that I watched halfway through the first season and it never clicked with me so I peaced out, and I am fully aware it gets better after that but... ya know. Just not that interested.

I think I convinced my girlfriend to watch Daredevil and Punisher, and I can probably get her to watch at least season 1 of Jessica Jones. Luke Cage and Iron Fist aren't ones I particularly feel compelled to re-watch though.

I'm just going to warn you, I did something similar in 2020

Too much marvel will fry your brain and ruin your sense of taste

By the end, we weren't sure if marvel movies were good or not

banananor posted...

I'm just going to warn you, I did something similar in 2020

Too much marvel will fry your brain and ruin your sense of taste

By the end, we weren't sure if marvel movies were good or not

I was going to post this topic sooner but decided not to because it took us two and a half weeks between Iron Man 2 and Thor. So we're pacing ourselves pretty good! It's a no-pressure kind of thing. Just whenever the eff we feel like checking out another Marvel flick.

Iron Man is great. Still probably top 5 MCU.

Iron Man was my favorite MCU movie until No Way Home. However I have not fully seen Winter Soldier.

Incredible Hulk write up probably tomorrow.

Got through Captain America 1 tonight. Got really excited Avengers is next, and then I looked to see what comes after and it's a one-two punch of Iron Man 3 and Thor 2. My enthusiasm and smile, gone.

Iron Man 3 is a very different beast from 2. Maybe you'll like it. Thor 2 is ...well you'll be glad it's over? It does have some good points....

what did your girlfriend think of iron man?

true, we need girlfriends thoughts

If you can, try going into the re-watch of Iron Man 3 with a new perspective. I didn't like the movie the first time either, but years later when I did my MCU marathon I was determined to only view positives for every movie and ignore anything I didn't like or agree with. Made IM3 way way better and now it's actually one of my favorites. RDJ's performance as Tony really shines through the most here. It also features possibly the best heroic scene in any superhero movie (the plane save).

Nothing can save Thor 2 though. There's a few positives, it's just overall boring and that's worse than being bad.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

what did your girlfriend think of iron man?

She enjoyed it quite a bit! She laughed a lot of Tony Stark and his nonsense. She was really into the drama of it all. She did not care for Obadiah and was rather outraged by his turn. Oh, and she really liked the little robot helper guy.

tony stark built this in a cave with a box of scraps

What stands out regarding Iron Man 1 to me is how the dialogue just seems to flow more naturally than usual for a Hollywood blockbuster, although it helped I knew basically the whole movie was ad-libbed ahead of time.

The Incredible Hulk
Release Date: June 13, 2008
Stand-Out Character: Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross (played by William Hurt)
Best Scene: Bruce Banner/Hulk vs. Special Forces in Brazil

Here is the bastard child of the MCU, so bastard that it isn't even on Disney+! It also came out a month later than Iron Man which is super strange, especially with how congested that the MCU feels nowadays with a movie every few months.

Anyway, The Incredible Hulk is about Bruce Banner being on the run from Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross and the U.S. Army so they can experiment on Bruce Banner and use his blood to mass create more terrible monsters, "but right". Eventually Bruce Banner meets up with a biologist named Samuel Sterns who ends up mass creating Banner's blood when Thaddeus Ross and his primary soldier, Emil Blonsky, attack them and take Banner captive. Blonsky forces Sterns to turn him into a horrible Abomination with Banner's blood and he loses control and goes on a rampage through New York. Ross releases Bruce so he can stop Abomination and he turns into Hulk, defeats Abomination, and retreats once more to live in isolation.

So this is better than I remember it being. It's a very disjointed movie though. I guess I'll start with what I liked.

I absolutely love the opening credits scene. We don't waste any time with the origin story; they just tell everything we need in short snippets within a few minutes. Seriously, this is so well done I forgot how good it was. It's worth refreshing yourself with on Youtube or something!

Thaddeus Ross is absolutely awesome in this. Rest In Peace William Hurt. He's such a piece of shit, but all of it doesn't seem too out of place. He's a monster of a man that struggles with doing the right thing and his own hubris. He's absolutely cold and willing to do whatever it takes to get Hulk. He's obsessed and there are so many scenes where William Hurt just performs his role in such an understated way that gets this across with little to no words. People will point out what a piece of shit he is and you can tell it effects him, but he just will not show it. Every scene with Thunderbolt Ross is a treat and probably the highlights of this movie. I'm really sad we never got William Hurt as Red Hulk because the man deserved that. He'd do such a good job with that.

I also like Hulk in this quite a bit. Visually, I think this is the best he looks. I think the Ruffalo Hulk is kinda lame and doesn't come across as nearly intensely intimidating as Incredible Hulk. The way he moves and the transformations are also great too. There is something in that they had really good ideas for cool moments.

One particular moment is my favorite scene from the movie where they are trying to get Hulk in the bottling plant in Brazil. They build up to Hulk so well. People are flying, giant machinery everywhere. He's a horror monster just grabbing people from the shadows and heaving them around and everything they try causes nothing. Just absolutely brutal and monstrous and it's honestly done so god damn well. I don't think Hulk has ever been better than this one scene, and I think that's a shame. Give me more scary Hulk than middle-aged nerd Hulk for the love of god.

I also really like Emil Blonsky in this as well. He's unhinged and obsessed, like Thunderbolt Ross, and he just wants this power and to be the best there is. Tim Roth does a really great job in this movie as well.

And let's talk about the bad.

Betty Ross, played by Liv Tyler, is abysmal. Just horrible. Every scene just lacks any charisma with her. She's a void of charisma. She shows one moment in a comedic taxi scene of something else by OH MY GOD it was so hard to get through scenes with her. Nothing she does works. I've liked her in a couple things, namely The Leftovers, but she has a very specific amount of roles she can pull off and this was not one of them. She actively detracted from the movie so bad and that cannot be understated.

I also don't love Edward Norton as Bruce Banner, but I think I like him more than Ruffalo? I'll get a chance here soon to compare the two, but that's my impulse after watching this. I don't like that Banner is kind of... cool in this? Like he's doing parkour skills, challenging people to fights, among other things. I like Banner more as a bit of a nerd (such as with Ruffalo) to contrast Hulk. Cool Banner doesn't do much for me.

I don't think the plot flows particularly well. It's very clearly from one giant, badass action scene to the next, with smatterings of absolutely screeching to a halt scenes with Betty Ross. While I do like Sterns just being a dope and too excited to make duplicates of Banner's blood, I think we needed a bit more there to justify it (especially with how secretive Banner is to just trust him like this).

I also think that the Abomination/Hulk fight is kind of lacking. I never really enjoyed it a ton but on a re-watch I'm still not particularly impressed. Choking Abom out with a chain sucks. In terms of big meaty monsters slapping meat, we can do better.

Overall, it's a movie with a ton of problems, but it's still an enjoyable watch for the most part. William Hurt and Tim Roth carried hard though, as well as some cool Hulk scenes. But the issues are very noticeable and rough. My one regret is that we still don't have a proper Leader. One day, perhaps...

Girlfriend Thoughts: She thought Liv Tyler was god awful too, but was nicer about it than me. She also seemed to really enjoy any Hulk scenes. She was also very much not a fan of Thaddeus Ross and was repeatedly calling him a dick while I'm over there gushing about how great William Hurt is. She particularly enjoyed the carnage Abomination ended up causing too. We also enjoyed making fun of Leonard Samson looking like a turbo virgin when Chad Banner comes by and Betty just completely ignores him from that moment onward. I also choose to believe she never got tired of the multiple Hulk callbacks and easter eggs I pointed out and explained to her too.

Ruffalo Banner and Hulk > Norton Banner and Hulk IMO, but I don't think that's a very popular opinion.

I think I'm mostly just very tired of Ruffalo's take on Banner and the direction of Hulk. I don't find Ruffalo particularly inspiring as the character and Hulk is just at his most boring right now. I'll take any excuse to have Hulk go Savage or Immortal after She-Hulk at this point.

Tag

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I think I'm mostly just very tired of Ruffalo's take on Banner and the direction of Hulk. I don't find Ruffalo particularly inspiring as the character and Hulk is just at his most boring right now. I'll take any excuse to have Hulk go Savage or Immortal after She-Hulk at this point.

Oh yeah I totally get why people want to see Hulk go full rage mode since it's not really been much of a thing in the MCU.

I just like that in at least one continuity Banner and the Hulk have made peace and it seems to have stuck instead of reverting to the status quo. Would be better if we got WWH or something like it prior to Professor Hulk though!

Iron Man 2
Release Date: May 7, 2010
Stand-Out Character: Justin Hammer (played by Sam Rockwell)
Best Scene: Iron Man & War Machine vs. Hammer Drones

Here's the very underwhelming Iron Man 2. There's just so much lacking in this movie and I really can't believe that they didn't do better with it. So many pieces just don't work.

Iron Man 2 is about the government wanting Stark's Iron Man tech to make their own fleet of them and Tony Stark refusing to give it up. Meanwhile, his tech rival Justin Hammer enlists in a vengeful Ivan Vanko, who hates Tony Stark because his father took credit for his arc reactor tech. Tony Stark manages to upgrade his arc reactor in his chest to keep it from poisoning him and killing him while Ivan Vanko attempts to kill Stark, ultimately leading to Iron Man and War Machine beating him, and Stark cementing his love for Pepper Potts.

So I guess we'll just go ahead and talk about what's good in this movie, and virtually the ONLY reason I hold it in any regard:

Sam Rockwell as Justin Hammer is absolutely perfect. For the love of god, get Justin Hammer back. I don't care how. Justin Hammer is the shining gem in this movie because every scene he has, he just manages to chew the scenery as well as Robert Downey Jr. The only difference is that while Tony Stark is a cool, suave tech head, Justin Hammer is anything but that, but he wants so badly to be that. He's obsessed with becoming the next Tony Stark, and he is so awkward and bad at it. It's a masterclass how well he pulls it off. My favorite scene of his is where he's trying to sell the military on add-ons for the Stark Tech.

My other favorite scene is where Hammer is completely fed up with Vanko wasting his money and just starts screaming at him and having a meltdown, commanding his men to take his clothes and his bird. "I just took your stuff. How does that make you feel? Does it make you feel bad? Good. BECAUSE THAT'S HOW I FEEL!" He's a total jackass, borderline incompetent, but he has that ruthlessness in him when it comes down to it to make up for his lack of talent, but he's shooting way above what he and his company is capable of.

Ivan Vanko is also kind of here. He spends the majority of the movie sitting in a computer room which is kind of the problem with it all. He's just some kind of Russian super hacker hanging out in a white room when he should be more present. But Mickey Rourke does a great job with Vanko, and he comes across as evil and surprisingly clever. He completely plays Hammer for a fool to try and kill Tony Stark and completely takes over all of his drones. The Whiplash stuff is also way too cool to have been relegated to two scenes.

And of course Robert Downey Jr. also does an incredible job. It's Tony Stark doing Tony Stark things and you can't really go wrong. He's a fun, eccentric billionaire being a dick to people and it's really just great. When he has more serious moments too, it works. And even when he's blasting stuff at his party, drunk off his ass, it works too. A visual that sticks with me is Tony Stark driving with a giant diorama of the Stark Expo hanging out of his convertible.

Samuel L. Jackson also gets more play in this movie and it's a delight. He's really a perfect Nick Fury and really comes across like the smartest guy in the room next to Tony Stark and knows precisely what to do and say to get him to get his shit together. Every scene with Nick Fury is just awesome and a pleasure to have him here.

That's it for what I liked, so let's jump into the issues this movie has. This plot is kind of executed horribly. We have a two plot points here: Tony is dying of his arc reactor; Justin Hammer and Ivan Vanko want to defeat Tony Stark--Justin in business and Vanko in taking his life. Neither of these end up doing well.

Tony Stark just doesn't go far enough with the self-destructive part of this. He gets drunk at a party, sure. But there's really not enough that makes me think he's gone so far over the deep end aside from putting people in danger there and it does lead to the blow up between him and Rhodey. I think they should have made Tony Stark just be more reckless somehow when saving the day, because good god could we have used more excuses for Tony Stark to save the day.

Concerning Vanko, I touched on it a bit, but he's just not doing anything for the majority of the movie. While it was nice to give a close focus on the character of Tony Stark, this movie suffers from spending too much time on that and not enough on him just being a hero. Vanko gets little to do in this and it's such a shame because Mickey Rourke is just great.

Scarlett Johansson is also kind of a drawback because man, did she ever not feel herself in this role enough. She's completely uninteresting and although I do love her one fight scene in this, she has zero charisma in the role. I know she grows into it more, but it was rough in this one.

I think that Pepper Potts and Tony Stark's relationship evolves fine in this as well. The problem is that it's just more of the same as the previous movie. We don't go too far except for her being a bit upset at Tony but not tremendously so? I mean, it works because they have a lot of chemistry but it's just not stand-out to me.

I touched on the lack of action, and I feel like mentioning that again because the action we do get works for the most part, but really only at the end of the movie. I don't love the scene with Iron Man vs. Whiplash at the beginning, and I think that the Iron Man vs. War Machine fight is lacking too (as well as feeling a little bit forced). But when you get to the Hammer Drone attack, and then Hammer Drones vs. Iron Man & War Machine, it's really awesome. But we're way too far into the movie for that. Worse yet, the showdown between Vanko and Stark/Rhodes is so short. You can yawn and miss the whole thing it feels like. Completely underwhelming final fight.

Overall, it's not a great movie, but there's some things that save it--mainly great performances from folks to carry the movie along in what is otherwise a rather forgettable installment of the MCU. But for real, give us Justin Hammer back if you take anything else from this film. He's too good for Iron Man 2.

Girlfriend Thoughts: She still really likes Tony Stark and everything landed there from him. She was flabbergasted at Elon Musk appearing in this too. She was kind of bored but also really liked Samuel L. Jackson too. She didn't get a kick out of Justin Hammer as much as me though, but she loved the "I call it the Ex-Wife" line about the missile he was showing off. She was also really disappointed in the final fight with Vanko too. For some reason she was also really confused about whether or not Hammer really got Vanko's bird too and asked me multiple times if that was really his bird or not. She wasn't a huge fan, overall.

Coulson might be my favorite part of IM2 just because of how absolutely done with Tony's shit he is.

They should have done more with it. Make him accidentally hurt some random while hes out superheroing drunk.

The leads all do such a good job in that movie. Hammer/Stark/Vanko are all great performances.

It's to bad they aren't enough to carry that script

Oh no thoughts on Cheadle replacing Howard?

Would you agree with Scarlett Johansson that Black Widow felt more like a sex object in Iron Man 2 than well-realized character?

I know I shouldn't respond to an LMS post but why not.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Would you agree with Scarlett Johansson that Black Widow felt more like a sex object in Iron Man 2 than well-realized character?

Been a long time since I actually watched IM2, but yeah I get that she was sexualized and this was when Johansson was getting nominated and winning the sexiest women awards. IM2 was a poor introduction for her character and it honestly would have been better if she showed up in a stinger somewhere else before. I think that the movie could have done without her and nothing would be lost. She did nothing of value the entire movie.

But in answer to your question, no.

Oh yeah I forgot that Iron Man 2 was heavily meddled with to set up The Avengers. The experience drove Favreau away from directing another Marvel movie.

What doesn't help is that Natasha is apparently undercover for most of the movie (haven't seen it), so she has little chance to display her real personality. Gah.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

(haven't seen it)

Then stop talking as if you have

Whoa that just gave me deja vu

most_games_r_ok posted...

Oh no thoughts on Cheadle replacing Howard?

Oh, yeah. In both movies so far they feel equally fine, which is to say there's nothing stand-out about them. I think I like Don Cheadle a little bit more though just because they gave him a bit more, but he did feel a bit flat in this one. I know he gets much better in the role as time goes on.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Would you agree with Scarlett Johansson that Black Widow felt more like a sex object in Iron Man 2 than well-realized character?

I guess I can elaborate on this. I never really got the impression that Black Widow was just a sex object in this movie. There's a scene of her in lingerie in a scroll of Tony looking over her credentials, and then a scene of her changing and Happy sneaking a peek in the review mirror.

But aside from that, she kicks ass in the movie, she comes across as a badass, and she's wearing a catsuit but it doesn't come across as any more exploitative than Thor having his shirt off no less than three times in the following movie.

It does feel like they didn't know how to write Black Widow yet though. She doesn't have much of a personality to speak of, and Scarlett Johansson in this movie phoned it in hard. But there's moments where she can shine. But the scenes she gets, she's super competent and takes no shit from absolutely anyone in this movie, she has subtle moments of comedy that I feel could have delivered better, and she's just really, exceptionally good at her job.

So I mean, no. She doesn't feel like an actualized character just because the writing is so shoddy, but she also doesn't feel like an actualized character like Vanko was, or I'd argue Rhodey in this movie too. It's the nature of the script and not anything unique with Black Widow herself. She should have been done better in this movie, but so should everyone else in the script not named Tony Stark, Pepper Potts, and Justin Hammer.

Thor write-up tomorrow!

The first two Thor movies were so unlike the last two Thor movies.

Thor
Release Date: May 6, 2011
Stand-Out Character: Odin (played by Anthony Hopkins)
Best Scene: Thor vs. Loki on the Bifrost

Man do I sure have opinions about Thor. I think I like it more than most though. Needless to say, it's very different than the Thor we get nowadays.

Thor is about... Thor, who is manipulated by his brother Loki to disobey his father Odin's wishes and sparks a war with the Frost Giants. Odin banishes Thor to Earth and declares him not worthy of wielding his hammer, Mjolnir. Loki, meanwhile, discovers that he was really an adopted Frost Giant and confronts his father, who falls into a God Coma and he assumes the throne. Later, Loki attempts to kill Thor with the Destroyer while also attempting to destroy the Frost Giant's home to assert his position as King. Thor proves himself worthy when combatting the Destroyer and then returns to fight Loki, eventually besting him and supposedly Loki dies. Thor then turns down the crown, saying he isn't ready to be king just yet.

I have been doing what I like first and then what I don't like, so I guess I'll keep doing it this way.

For those unaware, Kenneth Branagh directed this, and he is the most Shakespeare guy to ever Shakespeare. He dedicated practically his whole career to Shakespeare and the theater, and bringing in him was a brilliant idea for Thor. Because you see, we're essentially dealing with a Shakespearean story. We have familial betrayal, banishment and finding who you are, drama with thrones, and a little love at first sight. We're looking at a full blown Shakespearean tale here, and this sets up everything I think we all really love about the Thor side of the MCU.

In particular, the highlight of the film is absolutely Thor and Loki's relationship. It's the highlight of the entire Thor franchise, frankly. Loki is selfish, bitter, jealous, and insecure, and all he wants is acceptance and to break out of Thor's shadow. It's a relatable thing in a world of wild superhero stories. And to find out that he's a bastard truly breaks him and makes him even more angry, and he feels justified even. Before he was ready to just get rid of Thor and become the favorite child, but upon realizing he was lied to his entire life? He demanded more. Tom Hiddleston portrays this perfectly. His scenes where he's acting as king are tremendous because he's such a tremendous blend of casually cruel and manipulative. This is where Kenneth Branagh was perfect: he is the one that found Tom Hiddleston from his career in theater. Without Branagh, we wouldn't have what I consider probably one of the most perfect castings in the MCU. Hiddleston just blows it away in his performance.

But you know who else blows it away? Anthony Hopkins as Odin. Shocker of all shockers, Anthony Hopkins is an extraordinary actor. For me, this movie isn't nearly as powerful without him. Such a perfect casting as Odin--he was just the only one I can picture in it. The speech Odin gives when he banishes Thor is so tremendous, and only Anthony Hopkins could pull it off this well. He's stern, stubborn, and bold. He's a kind and he takes absolutely no shit from a single person. He just embodies everything a king should be. I love, love, love his performance in this.

I also love Asgard in general. It's an amazing set piece. I wish I knew who was responsible for all of the Asgard stuff because it's gorgeous and so well put together and they do a great job immersing you in this world. The worldbuilding is great for everything Asgard and I think that's overlooked often, because you really get a feel for how it all works.

Oh and Selvig is great. Give us Selvig again. His scenes are really good for what they are. Coulson is also great, but I don't need to tell you guys that again.

And back to Thor and Loki--the final scene culminating everything is so well done. The action isn't necessarily anything to write home about (in the whole movie tbh). But their back and forth where Thor still expresses his love for Loki in the face of everything that his brother has done, and wanting desperately to stop him from going too far not just to save Jotunheim, but to save Loki himself from doing something abhorrent is brilliant. And then Loki, selfish as ever, choosing to fall into the abyss is just the perfect end to their fight. Absolutely awesome stuff in this last scene, and Kenneth Branagh really shined here putting it together.

And uh, that's all I really love. Let me talk about my problems with this.

Kenneth Branagh is not the greatest director you've ever seen. He has such a great mind for a lot of things. Character blocking (where the characters are standing in scenes), in particular, stands out where I wouldn't say it for literally any other MCU film. The scenes where it's just dramatic speaking where nothing else is going on are immaculately filmed. And then sometimes he gives you more freaking dutch angles than you can imagine. Jesus Christ, this camera is always on tilt what the fuck. I understand WHY they do it sometimes, but other times it is just in a dutch angle for absolutely no reason! And everything is so dark and bland on the human world and Jotunheim and I think it's meant to make Asgard pop more but it makes it feel so dreary and dark. But the dutch angles are very distracting, for real. And the action scenes are... so-so. Lacking, really.

I also don't love a lot of the Earth stuff too much and I think a lot of it gets dry with sparks of good stuff strewn in. For instance, I think people give Thor and Jane's relationship too much shit. They say they have a very unnatural love story, but I don't really think so. Jane is initially smitten by this seemingly crazy, incredibly handsome man. Who can blame her? She shows disinterest for a while, but then it's where Chris Hemsworth really shines in this film by showing humanity. He's a god, he's selfish, he's arrogant, but fuck does he ever care about people. He shows such a gentle kindness to Jane in this movie that by the time they really connect, I think it feels more earned than people remember. There's an element of Jane falling for him easily, but Thor is a complete sweetheart after the crazy phase and when he's just decided to stay on Earth.

I really do think this movie is a bit too dry though. The acting is top notch, but it all has this undercut of... dryness to it. Like very sanitized. I feel maybe Branagh leaned into the Shakespearean elements a bit too hard and forgot to make this just a little bit more fun. There's fun to be had, but it feels muted still.

I'm also not entirely in love with everything leading up to Thor becoming worthy and transforming again. I think it's a bit overdramatic and doesn't really feel too satisfying. I feel like it could have been more... interesting? I don't think that's an unfair assessment. And the fact that most of the movie Thor is just straight brawling with dudes in SHIELD and stuff is... well, also not great. It could stand to be more exciting also. There's just a lot here that isn't necessarily interesting or exciting enough, even if the overall idea is good.

So in general, I love a lot of this movie. I think without Kenneth Branagh's vision and this film, we don't get nearly everything great about the Thor character in the long run. I would say I actually prefer this film to Love & Thunder, and it's actually disappointing that Thor in the later movies has kind of missed a lot of what made the character so endearing here. I miss a Thor who can reflect on the burdens of his life, and had a relationship that was as interesting as Loki or Odin. Where he was a lot more caring and sincere instead of a complete buffoon. I miss a Thor who was trying to find out who he is, one mistake at a time, imperfections at all. I miss Thor as a more three-dimensional character, and I feel like that's escaped us now. This movie, with all of it's flaws, managed to really give us a great depiction of Thor that really served the entire MCU for a long while, and I appreciate it a lot for that.

Girlfriend Thoughts: So about halfway through the movie when we took a break I asked her what she noticed was different and she said "There's not a lot of jokes here, and it's directed weird and there's not a lot of colors." We were able to discuss what directed weird meant, and I pointed it all out in my write up here. I also wanted to get her input on the Jane thing and there were multiple times where she thought Thor was incredibly sweet, so I lean that I may be more right on that assessment. She seemed to be bored at some points but she also seemed to like Loki sometimes but didn't like him at other points. She loved that Thor still wanted to save him at the end though.

Thor is a perfectly okay movie but that's just it, okay. Between that, First Avenger, IH and IM2 I don't think it's the weakest though!

One of my least favorite MCU films. At least the Asgardian warriors were well cast though and Branagh did about as good a job directing it as he could.

I've seen Death on the Nile and Belfast recently and I came out thinking Branagh's direction was one of the highlights of both films (with the former I also felt like Branagh's and Emma Mackey's performances were standouts, and I'm not saying the latter just because she's pretty or anything - she genuinely held my attention whenever she spoke and I wasn't terribly big on the movie otherwise), but on the other hand when I first saw Thor Branagh was fresh off of Artemis Fowl though I guess he doesn't deserve the full blame for how THAT turned out. Oh well I'm sure Colin Farrell is totally hurting for roles, it's not like he played a villain in a big comic book movie since or anything.

Speaking of Farrell, what do you think of the Affleck Daredevil movie? I was channel-surfing one day and decided to see how much of it I could tolerate. I stopped once an ad break came up but it didn't seem too bad; if anything it was strangely prescient of the Nolan Batman movies in terms of trying to take itself more seriously than the norm. Doesn't help Ben Affleck would go on to play the Caped Crusader himself later on, so seeing him playing a superhero who picks off his foes from the shadows creates an eerie effect. Seeing Jon Favreau in the movie was kind of interesting as well, especially in light of his brief interaction with the MCU's Daredevil in No Way Home.

I think I remember the first Thor being better than it is mainly because Dark World was notably worse

i haven't seen daredevil in forever but i remember not liking it. i've never been able to overlook how ridiculous that playground fight was. never seen the director's cut, though.

Apparently the theatrical cut was meddled with to ride Spider-Man's coattails.

The dircetor's cut is an improvement. There's a whole subplot of Matt Murdock in court defending someone on a murder charge.

I think I liked DD. I dont really remember it very well, but I do remember being sort of surprised whenever I first saw people calling bad in modern discussions

but I havent seen it since it came out and I was like 14 then so maybe I was just dumb and its not good. I dont care enough to watch it again.

also tangentially, I genuinely really enjoyed Spider-Man 3 when I saw it opening night, so I think teen me was just excited to see any Marvel thing that wasnt egregiously bad (Elektra and X3 were bad enough for me to not enjoy them)

I think both IM2 and Thor2 are unfairly maligned. They're not great films but they're fun

my recollection of Thor 2 is it was the opposite of fun

those first two Thors were mostly kinda boring

The first Thor was the first time you see Asgard in the MCU and the atmosphere and setting is pretty novel at the time since it feels pretty different which keeps the movie fresh (would be better if the main battle wasn't against some pointless lifeless robot thing)

Dark World was a snoozefest

i had a good time when i saw spider-man 3 in theaters. i immediately noticed that a lot was wrong with the movie, though (venom sucked, gwen stacy was totally pointless, sandman being uncle ben's killer was super dumb).

I think a big part of why I enjoyed it was Sandman. Even if that specific twist to his character isnt great, I thought he was portrayed really well and his powers were so cool to see on the big screen.

Sandmans definitely one of my favorite Spider-Man villains in the comics, so it was a big plus for me

That clearly wasnt Vankos bird