Board 8 > Virtue's Last Reward playthrough topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

I did read the spoiler tag, but by then I was already committed to going into my next timeline after thinking about things- we can of course figure out where Alice is. She's in the Crew Quarters, and Sigma manages to halt her suicide attempt for the price of a nasty cut on his hand.

That cut winds up being an incredibly important plot point. Luna spots the wound, and Sigma sees he is leaking white liquid. Holy shit. I like how the game writes Sigma's response to this, he tries to rationalise and when that fails he goes for avoidance, naturally being unwilling to process the most likely outcome. You can tell this is serious business because Sigma (and the writers) restrains himself from making a semen joke. But the sense of dread can't be put to bed for long, and to her great credit Luna goes out of her way to make things as gentle as possible for the ensuing revelation.

Luna is kind but also a bit terrifying here, leading Sigma calmly around and opening up with a slice of her backstory (but not all of it) before casually asking "Are you a robot? Have you always been here?". Sigma takes all of this like a champ, the poor guy admitting to himself that this doesn't sound as bonkers as it should, but the question that chills me is 'Have you always been here?'. This shows Luna knows far more than she has let on (along with her detailed knowledge of modern day robotics), and she seems to have her own theory about the nature of time in this place. I hope she doesn't turn out to be the central antagonist, but even when she's shady I can't help but really like Luna. "It's only when you're pursuing happiness that you're truly happy" is a pretty interesting philosophy to live by. This was a great scene, B Garden is full of them!

Now we don't know for sure that Sigma is a robot, but it's hard to think of another explanation for him bleeding white liquid. This of course brings up plenty of questions (are his memories real I wonder?), but then Phi finds the second bomb and Ace Attorney Sigma declares he has identified the culprit... to be continued. Huh, this is the first TBC that feels like a hard gated cliffhanger rather than a natural end while the character scrambles to think of a way forward.

After this I heed MSG's advice and ally with Tenmyouji. Things don't really change that much, the game ends and three people leave us behind instead of just the one, but Quark gives Sigma his own backstory so we can all reminisce about how great Tenmyouji is while we sit around in the facility he has left us to die in. For real this is another decent piece of backstory, not least because we can infer quite a few things about the apocalyptic future (or present I guess) that Quark grew up in. I suppose it's very unlikely that he's a robot now and that one time Tenmyouji let slip that he wasn't a schoolkid probably simply meant that schools aren't a thing anymore. Root beer floats are, though!

I'm a bit annoyed that to progress I now have to go back and pick betray on a route where I don't particularly find it a natural choice, but whatever we head back to the start and betray Tenmyouji. He is furious and claims he would never betray us (yeah right, pal!), but he does trust Clover. There's another sign that he is Junpei, or maybe one of the other kids from the first Nonary Game. I'm cooling on the prospect of him being Santa now, as he has apparently been searching for Akane for a long time and Santa and Akane escaped 999 together. I can't avoid the possibility that the old woman is Akane, too, that would be pretty brutal. If so then I wonder if Ace is the one who ordered Dio to kill her out of revenge. Ah, baseless speculation!

We finally enter the Treatment Center, and I appreciate the game's joke about the jellyfish being disappointed if I do that minigame wrong. Quark goes to sleep, and I think it's time for me to seriously think about which 3 people have been put in cryo-sleep. Tenmyouji and Quark are surely from the current time, as is the old woman and I think probably Luna. If Sigma and K are robots (still an if for both), Alice and Clover were probably two of the frozen, then there's Phi and Dio. Dio would seem to be from the present if he was ordered to sneak in here, but I'm not convinced Phi would be frozen as she seems to know too much. It still seems like only Phi and Sig keep some memories across timelines, and if Sig is a robot it would follow that she could be. Hm, that third cryo slot is a mystery.

Funnily enough, later on Clover and Sigma have a similar conversation, where they decide the two of them and Alice could've been frozen. Ha! I ally with Quark (though I am very curious what happens if Sigma gets to 9 points), and we head to the PEC room where it's time for Clover's backstory! Of course, between 999 and Alice we already know much of this, but it's nice to hear it from a different perspective. And I like the mentions of the rest of the 999 gang.

Right as Clover explains Neostigmine, my game crashes. Oops! Wow, the PEC room really is cursed. It doesn't take too long to catch back up, though I hadn't saved in a while, and I know now that my next run will be to head back to the timeline where Sigma is dying. Though I don't remember if the injection gun had already been used in that one.

Turn out that run will come sooner than I expect, as 5 minutes after the Clover conversation Sigma finds everybody dead in the infirmary. Jesus, Rad-6 works fast in this timeline. I wonder if the virus's spread is related to which rooms we went through, or if it's just chance. I should probably stop thinking in terms of timelines altogether, now that I think about it... Ah well, Sigma joins the rest of the gang in suicide (I will note that I did not see K in the group shot), and that's it for today.

Phew! Two endings down, finally (though even then I only got one of them because I was pointed there in this topic lol)

OK, I see that the flowchart updates when I can now solve a lock. The injection gun doesn't work on Sigma's 5 minutes left to live, so either it was already used in that timeline or nobody went into that room. It does however solve the lock of K and Phi needing to be saved, despite Clover explicitly stating that there's only a single dose of neostigmine. I play the scene anyway, Sigma figures out that K took his own key and killed Dio while pretending to be asleep. I'm... disappointed I missed that one. I think I even noted his key was missing from the safe lol. Props to Sigma for doing the calculations while on his deathbed.

K confirms he killed Dio in retaliation for Dio murdering the old woman, who was his motherly figure. Can't say that one is a shock. Though he does reveal that the woman came 'here' when he was 18, and Sigma takes off his mask to reveal his face. Not a robot face as I expected... well, not in the sense of G-OLM's, but Sigma's own face stares back at him. Are they both robots, or clones, or clone robots, or robot clones? Who knows. But K gives us a code and seems to be very aware of the multiple games being played, though he may have realised that only when his memory started to return.

K's ending done, we have no routes open to us that don't involve 'betray'. I head back to the top and pick the only option I hadn't yet, betraying Luna at Phi's word. Can't say this one feels good. After visiting the pantry (I think there's only one puzzle room left to us now), Alice and Luna die again and Quark disappears. Phi asks me to betray Clover so we can all get out of the building, and I consider it but ultimately decide to stay true to my word. Clover is grateful and Phi is understanding, but the game ends there. Of course I immediately head back and betray her then, which the game tries to make me feel bad about. Not gonna work game, there's no more ally paths for me to take!!

I have to admit, finally stepping through the #9 door is exhilarating. New surroundings, new music, all the wonder and potential of it all. Part of me expected us to be locked in the room outside, or immediately get put under to restart the game, but we do in fact manage to reach open air. We escaped! And we're on Earth! Under a Lunar eclipse at that. A different Phi seems to jump into current Phi's body from a different timeline (her words), so I guess timelines are back on the table and this isn't an endless repeated loop of clones and robots >_>

She demands the deactivation code for bomb #0. I guess there's one we haven't yet found! #3 is in Crew Quarters, #2 is in the Treatment Room, and #1 (which we have the code for) is in the B Garden, if I recall correctly. I'm surprised these bombs are being treated as a massive deal given all the global sci fi shenanigans we have to deal with, clearly there's more to discover here. Dio gives her the code, and we also get the 25 digit key for the memory card (woo!) and his backstory. Whew, this is some deranged cult shit. Guess there's no redeeming Dio, he's been indoctrinated into this death cult since birth. One thing I note during Dio's explanation is his mention of 'divorcing the soul from the body' to cleanse it- this is very reminiscent of Quark's words when he was ranting with Rad-6. Not sure how this could connect, but it can't be a coincidence.

The three of us head to the nearest shelter, and this route ends here, under the red moon. Well, we did it. We made it out of the Nonary Game, and some ideas have seemingly been taken off the table- we're not in space, this isn't an endless string of games in the same timeline, and Dio isn't secretly a great person. I suppose I could look up the IRL dates for total lunar eclipses and try to figure out the exact date in the future that we're talking about here, but that would probs be taking things a little too far. 4 character endings down :O

IIRC, the Dio ending was the actual first ending I got. After allying with Luna and getting as far as I could, I betrayed her and then Clover and got this. So I was hardly under any sort of illusion of Dio being good. It felt weird that I could get that ending so quickly.

I know that Dio or Clover have to be the first ending you get. Other endings are locked behind stuff you find out in those two endings. Once you get one of the two things open up a bit I believe.

MysteriousStan posted...

I know that Dio or Clover have to be the first ending you get. Other endings are locked behind stuff you find out in those two endings. Once you get one of the two things open up a bit I believe.

That's not true - there are some other possibilities, like getting the Tenmyouji ending first, it's just that the Dio and Clover endings are the only ones that have no locks.

I also got the Dio ending first. It was one of the first major things I did, since I went and did Betray Luna before going through the yellow door route at all.

Ohh interesting! Yeah that makes sense. Just because Dio/Clover have no locks doesn't mean you have to get one of the two first. Seems improbable but not impossible yeah.

How could you all betray Luna so easily?? Monsters. (Do not respond to this with spoiler bars even if she turns out to be the antagonist lol)

It does seem odd that you can theoretically get the Dio ending in your very first route, it gives you a fair amount of info off the bat. Though I guess I'm only inferring some things from additional context, and I suppose most people wouldn't betray Luna at the first opportunity... hopefully.

I have never seen someone go down the Dio ending as their first path; at best they do it second after allying with Luna.

I allied with Luna before betraying her, at least! I just wanted to see what would happen if I picked betray before doing other routes. Now Clover, I betrayed her first from pure intuition as it would get me to 9.

I basically just went entirely left to right on the flowchart until I ran out of the ability to do so.

Yeah I think there are two ways that people generally approach the game:

1) Start with magenta and then just go left to right on the flowchart
2) Start with cyan because you immediately want to know what Alice's deal is

I've only seen like one or two people start with the yellow door, and pretty much everyone who goes magenta or cyan allies at first

I don't remember what my ending order was at all. Maybe Tenmyouji first? Who knows!

I have seen people get the Tenmyouji ending first since its only lock is something pretty easy

yeah i also went left to right, but i got K's lock first

I honestly do not remember my path through this game AT ALL. I'm so surprised you all do!

Same here. I started with the Cyan door because of Alice like others have, but aside from that I don't remember my ending order. I do feel like the Dio ending was one of my first though, if not the first. And I remember that I would immediately go back to betray after reaching the end of an ally branch instead of jumping around the flowchart.

Clover was first for me and then Dio. I think K was third? Can't remember the order after that except I remember Luna was the last ending I got before the true ending of course. Spoilers just in case but I can't imagine not getting that one last for story beat purposes.

Though I always wonder with games like this, where the experience order can be so different, if people feel their experience was the best route to take to "enjoy" the game.

Ending order: Tenmyouji, Clover, K, Dio. But I would've maybe gotten Clover before Ten without the board's assistance!

The 25 digit key reveals the codeword- COMPLETED COMPLETED COMPLETED. We've sure seen that word a lot when beating puzzles, but what could it mean in a grander context? No idea. But it leads us to discovering that Dio set up us the bomb. Gasp!! Dio is pretty easy to trick for being such a high ranking important member of Free the Soul, but to be fair to him we do have timeline shenanigans on our side (Sigma does seem to be getting more confident with his extra timeline knowledge each time he uses it now, but that may be my imagination).

Dio informs us that Brother's goal is to stop Zero's AB plan from succeeding, so I'm taking from that that the ultimate goal of Zero is likely a positive thing, probably to undo the pandemic. After getting tricked by the detonator and reaching Alice's ending (RIP everyone) we head down the bomb route and reach a rather similar conclusion, though not before Luna runs tests on Sigma. In one of the stranger twists so far, it seems Sigma is not a robot after all. Nice bait and switch, game! But it doesn't explain everything like Sigma's absurdly good memory or K sharing his face. Maybe he's still a clone (of Zero perhaps)? His cybernetic arms must be very important, but it seems not important enough to undo the bracelet's hold.

The most interesting part of this route is Luna. Sigma notes what I did earlier: Luna can be freaking terrifying with how calm she is in incredibly dangerous situations. I am so incredibly curious what her deal is. She passes a message on to Sig, much like K did earlier. So that's Tenmyouji, K, Luna and Dio who must've had prior knowledge of something before the game began, and I'd be surprised if it ends there. "I'll be waiting..." repeats Luna before the blast engulfs them both, and I'm not sure whether to be reassured or filled with dread.

I expect this to show up as Luna's ending but it's actually Sigma's, leaving us with 3 characters: Luna, Phi, and Quark. I'm now thinking that Phi is unlikely to be directly involved in the creation of the AB game and her extended knowledge is merely due to her ability to dimension-hop. I've already spoken on Luna, so that leaves Quark as an intriguing question mark. I suppose there must be more to him than we've learned from Tenmyouji's ending.

We now have the codes to all 4 bombs and the locations to all except bomb 0 (assuming their locations are static across timelines). And we have both gates to the lion password, so that's where I'm heading next time. We're running lower on routes left but there's still so much unknown!

oh man hype for the next updates. you're closing in on the end!

LUNA IS A GAULEm?!

Got there

more like a got em

Yep, after entering in the password we find out the gaulem is pretty much the only character I never singled out as a candidate. Of course! My first reaction to this blunt revelation is 'holy shit'. That is also my second, third, and maybe fourth reaction. After a while I shift to being annoyed at myself for not figuring this out, and some of the clues fall into place as the game scatters some past quotes at me. Looking back I think the biggest clue (aside from her always picking Ally) was the fact we never see Luna's blood. Every other character has a bloody death at some point aside from Sigma and Quark. Now Quark could be a special case as there's more to learn of him yet, or maybe there was reluctance to show a child bleeding in a game, but Sigma himself had noted how Luna looked perfectly calm and sleeping while 'dead'. I hope you all enjoyed me accusing every other character of being a robot while missing the real answer lol.

Anyway, after some time I realise I'm a little relieved that this is Luna's deal. I had been becoming increasingly worried that she was behind this whole thing, and I really like her so didn't want that to be the case. I'm sure I don't need to tell any of you that I choose Ally with zero hesitation. 'The evil robot did it' is not where this game is going to go. I trust her. Sigma trusts her too, and has another Badass Protagonist Moment putting Quark into Phi's arms before turning back into hell purely to go and talk with his friend.

We of course find her in The Area Where The Best Scenes Happen, B. Garden. (Random thought: maybe there's an A Garden on the upper floor, the map for that level is much smaller than below...). What follows is a very lengthy account of events from Luna, and an intimate and caring discussion between her and Sigma. He winds up being the comforting figure that she was to him in their previous scene. I'm not going to recount all the info she teaches us- aside from scenes with the old woman most of what we learn is that the answers we'd been leaning towards were usually the right ones. Clover did 'kill' Luna, and Dio killed pretty much everyone else. She doesn't tell us about the bombs, but then I don't think we found any in this timeline so I guess Dio didn't set them here.

Rather than being anything mindblowing, this scene is largely just... sad. All of this death and torture was just part of Zero's mysterious project, and Luna was aware of everything but unable to do anything about it. She finally breaks free of her orders and helps us, but blames herself for not defying her commands sooner and saving everyone else at the cost of her own life. She dies in Sigma's arms, and teases another story hook by calling him 'doctor', but this sequence is plenty satisfying on its own. Poor Luna.

Sigma rightly points out that the one responsible for all this isn't just Dio but Zero and the old woman themselves, and I'm really glad the game is going down this route. One of my problems with 999's ending was how Santa and Akane are never really held accountable for all the death and trauma instigated under their grand plan, but this time we are seeing the victims' perspectives one by one. K's childhood, Luna's whole existence, everything that has happened during all of these timelines, it is all suffering caused by Zero and the old woman, and no matter how altruistic their goal winds up being this is an issue that needs to be explored. I didn't like how the old woman treated Luna and shut down her compassionate complaints, I know she had reason but you don't treat people like that! Luna is made to suffer watching all of this happen, blames herself for not stopping it, then dies. That's pretty brutal.

This is all I do today, it was a short session but I know I'm coming up on the ending and I want to make this thing last as long as possible! The game seems to be pointing me to the idea that K and Sigma are Zero's clones, or maybe that Sigma is Zero himself. Hm I kinda want to replay the section where K tells us about his childhood. All I know is I really want Luna and Sigma to get out of this and go sit on a bench together in whatever world we wind up in. These revelations have only cemented Luna as my fav character, her kind innocent demeanor was not a fake, she's a complex flawed character who wants to help people and is unsure of her own personhood. Sigma also continues to shoot up in my estimations whenever he enters Benevolent Hero Mode, and I like that he is fully confident in his timeline jumping abilities now.

Next up: one weird aluminium trick to get rid of your death bracelet?? Rabbits HATE him!!

andylt posted...

I hope you all enjoyed me accusing every other character of being a robot while missing the real answer lol.

Yeah

Did all of you figure out this twist beforehand?

Luna? Nope I didn't. I don't think anyone being a robot was on my mind really since I didn't do Gaulem Bay until shortly before getting that ending iirc.

andylt posted...

Did all of you figure out this twist beforehand?

Hmm

I dont think so, but I dont recall ever really trying. I liked VLR quite a bit because it felt like you had the interesting puzzle rooms and the reward was story twists

So unlike straight novels trying to solve it myself didnt feel like a reward

andylt posted...

Did all of you figure out this twist beforehand?

I can't really remember except I think I figured out where it was going a bit before it was revealed. I don't think I figured it out WELL in advance though.

And yes, it was fun seeing you accuse everyone else of being a robot!

Nope, didnt see this coming. Its been while so I might be mistaken but I think I got Lunas ending on the earlier side. I dont recall thinking about who might be a robot.

andylt posted...

My first reaction to this blunt revelation is 'holy s***'. That is also my second, third, and maybe fourth reaction.

Same.

I'm very glad I didn't have to reassure you that this game would be worth it despite the game's bleak atmosphere by the way - I agree with you that it's not normally my thing but for obvious reasons VLR transcends that anyway

andylt posted...

Did all of you figure out this twist beforehand?

yes, but only because uchikoshi likes to recycle his tricks and I've played that other game lol

(not meant as a bad thing btw he can recyle all he wants and I'll keep eating it up)

Sigma gets his cyberarm chopped off by the #9 door, and this is the first timeline which continues past the end of the Nonary Game. The only real new piece of info we get here is an ID card on the old woman, which reads 'KURASHIKI'. Yeah I'm not surprised by this reveal at this point, Tenmyouji's Akane revelation ages ago prepared me. It is odd that we just... never properly examine the old woman before this. There's only one timeline or two where we see her bracelet mark, and this is the first time someone has gone through her clothes and found the card. You've been slacking, Phi!

Alice commits suicide again and we get the Quark ending. Pretty odd way to cut the timeline off, but I imagine we probably 'should' have gotten this ending a while ago. After this the only routes I have left are betray routes that I don't think Sigma would naturally go down, which is pretty annoying. I grit my teeth and go through some of these endings, and... honestly they're pretty disappointing. Things feel much more video-gamey in these routes. Characters all unite against Sigma and hate him for taking the chance to leave, stopping him through violence despite several other timelines resulting in some of the others leaving without anyone stopping them. Betraying Luna post-robo reveal feels bad. We at least get a new scene with Zero there, but he just berates us for not trusting her.

The worst ending here is oddly enough the one that I need to progress. I had intended to avoid betraying Phi so she could never be justified in betraying Sigma, but it becomes clear that that's what I'm gonna have to do to break the final lock. But when we betray her Sigma doesn't acknowledge the other timeline and Phi is incredibly aggrieved, and when we go back to the other timeline there's a clear guilt pushed onto Siggy. It doesn't feel natural and I resent being pushed through this order of events and then made to feel bad about it. But we quickly get over it, and move on.

Hoo boy, it seems like we're on the 'true' path now. Phi gives us a lengthy explanation of Schrodinger's cat and other pseudoscientific theories, and the groundwork is laid for reversing the pandemic- we are outside the box, and the outside world is the cat in an unknown state of life and death until we trigger the correct outcome. Is Akane gonna get out of this alive again >_> Sigma and Phi are pretty comfortable with their timeline jumps now, though neither knows why or how it works and Sigma seems to have more control over his than she does.

Later, we finally get to input all our bomb passwords. One of them is in the control room this time, and Bomb 00 is in the spot where the bloody knife used to be. All locks have been cleared now, and with Phi and Tenmyouji we head into our last (?) puzzle room, a bizarre empty white space titled 'Q'. I save and quit just before switching out of novel mode as I feel like things aren't going to slow down once we get out of that room. The end is approaching! Maybe???

What else do we crucially need to learn? Who exactly Zero Sr is, what Sigma's deal is (arms, age, clone status, connection to Zero+K, timeline jumping), how and why all of this was planned as it was and how it can possibly work to reverse the pandemic, how the pandemic began in the first place, who Tenmyouji is (Junpei?), Phi's deal, and what will happen to all of us should Zero's plan succeed. And JUMPYDOLL.

andylt posted...

I grit my teeth and go through some of these endings, and... honestly they're pretty disappointing. Things feel much more video-gamey in these routes.

Honestly, I agree with this. After getting Dio's ending, I was thinking there might be other paths where you'd escape and learn more of the story, but, as you've seen, most of them ended like this.

I usually would pick ally/betray based on what I thought best the first time, then, after finishing whatever sequence the choice gave, go back and pick the other option afterwards. So at least those bad endings were scattered throughout instead of seeing them all at once.

I've got a bit of a completionist's mindset so I had no trouble betraying if I felt like it. But yeah I'd do the opposite once I saw the end of whatever route/choice I made. It never crossed my mind to solely ally with everyone and then go back and betray after all the ally routes had been exhausted.

MysteriousStan posted...

It never crossed my mind to solely ally with everyone and then go back and betray after all the ally routes had been exhausted.

Well, after Sigma acknowledged the first rewind I thought my choices might have an effect on other timelines going forward, so I wanted to be careful. Sadly the game didn't really turn out this way!

The Quantum room is a rehash of several past puzzles, and our reward is another hologram visit, this time from Akane herself. She explains that the purpose of the AB project is to send Phi and Sigma to the past, and then soon after we open a new flowchart option set before the beginning of the game (not sure how that works). Here we save Akane and speak to her in person, and she explains a bit more, then we go back into the future and eventually speak to her again so she can explain the whole lot. There's a lot of jumping around here!

After our rest stop in the past the whole gang (minus Dio lol) leaves the facility and Tenmyouji explains that, yes, we are in fact on the moon. Dammit game, you got me again! Of course we're on the moon, we have spacesuits on! I feel so foolish for buying the false reveal earlier lol. None of us realised we were on the moon because we've been infected with Rad-6, slowing our mind processing speed by sqrt 1/6. I'm not sure if this actually makes sense but it's a fun twist so I go along with it. We head back inside through floor B (ah, that door was useful after all!) and go to the Garden Where Good Scenes Happen.

I'm assuming now that B. Garden is really named Before Garden, as in a garden showing how things used to be before the pandemic. That's a neat unspoken reveal if true. We unlock the grave and a treatment pod rises up, and while we wait for it to defrost K explains everything he knows. I'm not going to try to explain the whole ABCDE thing here because a) it'd take me a long time b) I'd definitely mess it up and c) you all know it anyway. The pod defrosts and we see another Sigma clone, who is in fact the same body who is usually in K's suit. The K speaking to us is the Akane we saved, and our Sigma is... old! And Zero!

Like Akane herself, this reveal of Sigma's age isn't really a surprise by the time it comes around. It explains a lot of things, and it works in most respects, but... I don't know, in a way it feels a bit cheap. The twist only works because the game withholds information from the player for no good reason- there's no reason Sigma shouldn't be shown in the group shot by the AB reveal screen for instance, except for the fact it'd spoil this. And moon gravity shmoon gravity, you're telling me at no point did any of these people say 'hey dude the fuck is up with your eye'?? I probably missed some allusions to it to be fair, but still... Did Sigma never put his hands to his face and feel his roboeye or wrinkled skin, or did his cyberarms trick his brain into thinking he looked young still? Maybe I'm doing the game a disservice here, overall the twist works and it's obviously important to the story, but it feels a little sloppier than most of the big reveals have.

More importantly, Sigma is Doctor Sigma 'Zero' Klim. And K is his clone, created to replace him. Poor K. Poor young Sigma's consciousness >_> Akane explains some more batshit sci fi stuff, knifes Sigma into the past, and we have a chat with young Akane about saving the world. Then the game ends. Or begins. Wait, what? That's it?!

Overall I'm sorry to say this ending leaves me a bit empty. I mean, it just ends like that with a sequel hook? All the stuff we've been building up to and that's it?! 999's ending may have had flaws but it was grand and emotionally satisfying, this one is a bunch of cold exposition that cuts off before reaching any resolution. VLR has been great at keeping an emotional throughline throughout its runtime, I'm sad that it ends like this. All of these characters we've bonded with over our journey, and they barely get to react to any of the grand revelations before they're offscreen and done with.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike it, it just doesn't feel like an ending. And I think it's time I talk about Akane. At one point she talks about some death being 'unavoidable', and she explains that all of this was set up to help boost Sigma and Phi's jumping skills. But I'm annoyed that nobody pushes back on this! Sure, her and Dr Siggy's intentions are good and they want to save the world, but there is no mention of there being a moral quandary here. A few updates ago I mentioned that I was happy the game was going in this direction, but it doesn't go there at all! Akane is taken at her word and all of her+Zero's victims don't get a say in things. The two have created dozens of timelines of death and destruction for the sake of saving one single timeline, and to me that feels like an issue worth exploring.

I'm not saying Akane should be treated as a villain necessarily, but her reasoning is hard to swallow. Was this really the only way for Sig+Phi's powers to manifest? I know there's 'fight or flight' and Sigma's species B explanation from ages ago, but did they even try anything else? Because it seems to me like creating a Nonary Game to psychologically torture and kill 9 people shouldn't be the first solution you jump to, and yet Akane's done it twice now! I know, I know, in 999 she had to do it because it was already done when she was a kid, and they try to spin that again here, but I don't really buy it. She had to bring Clover here to put her through all that pain again, but this time without her brother to support her? Were there really no other espers left? Junpei had finally moved on from her and started to find some peace and fulfillment in life through Quark, and she just yanks him back from all that to boost the psychic powers another notch? And subjects Quark to the misery too? K's entire existence is just as a backup in case Zero dies, but they throw him in here and drug him so he doesn't remember who he is for good measure. Luna's creation seems to serve a similar purpose. Clover, Alice and Phi get robbed of their lives to be brought to this hellhole. All of these people get infected with a deadly disease that can and does make them suicidal. All this suffering, death, and pain has a reason, and yeah sure saving the world is as good a reason as you can get, but surely the question of the ethics of doing all this should at least be raised? Am I alone in thinking this?

I feel like I'm being too harsh here. Especially on Akane. I know Zero is just as if not more responsible for all this, but Sigma as we know him is innocent and we haven't seen him in Zero form really, and Akane is the face of the project. I'm making it sound like I hate the game now lol, but I don't! I really like it! My instant reaction now though is to think of it as a game about the journey rather than the destination, and a game with great characters and great twists but not a tightly wrapped mystery.

There are far more questions left than I expected, I guess Zero Time Dilemma will answer them and I really hope it doesn't abandon the future characters I've grown so fond of. I probably set my expectations too high, I knew going in that there was another sequel but it never crossed my mind that they wouldn't resolve this game's story here like they did with 999's last time. Still, I had a wonderful time playing and I hope you enjoyed following along and laughing at my many terrible predictions!

Also, here's some character rankings.

1. Luna
Nobody reading this is at all surprised I have her at the top. A wonderfully written character.

2. Alice
Funnily enough she winds up being the least important character storywise. aKane insisting 'no no you're really important' felt like the writers trying to justify her inclusion more than anything else, but regardless I'm glad she's here. Love how her character unfolds, and I find her very sympathetic.

3. Tenmyouji
It's Jumpy! His identity is almost treated as an afterthought, and it's to this game's great credit that it creates such a compelling character long before the reveal without relying on the player's past knowledge of him.

4. Sigma
Strictly referring to the character as we know him, not as the AB project creator. Obligatory Uchikoshi horniness aside, he becomes a pretty damn good hero who never loses sight of his core humanity. I'm concerned where he will go in the third game if he becomes more like Zero.

5. K
Oh man, poor K. He may be the most victimised character of the whole bunch, in another game he would be the protagonist of this story and his 'father' the antagonist. I like what we get of him, but wish there was more. He deserves a resolution.

6. Phi
I needed to talk about Phi somewhere. It feels like they just forgot to write a big scene telling us her backstory and her role in the game. Why did they need to train her to jump? What is her deal? I enjoy her personality a lot, but why on earth is she here?! Why does she volunteer for the time traveling at the end? I assume the sequel will address her more, but it's really jarring that they left her such a mystery.

7. Clover
I'm not sure why they brought Clover back. There's some very nice moments with her, but also some odd ones and she can be a hindrance for no good reason sometimes. Was she a fan favourite from 999? I can't think why else she'd be here. Still, she's fine.

8. Quark
He's a kid. All the mysteries and baiting and switching, and he winds up just being a regular kid. It works well for the story, but yeah there's not much to say about him. We barely spend any time with him conscious.

9. Dio
A moustache-twirling monster with no redeeming qualities, he makes Ace look like a saint. Serves his purpose but he's more a plot device than a character.

10. Akane+Zero
Yeah I'm not a fan. Zero seems very unlike Sigma as we know him, and I don't know how Akane got into this mess in the first place.

I'd love to see anyone else's rankings (and overall thoughts now I've beaten the game), I have no idea what the general consensus is on things!

andylt posted...

There are far more questions left than I expected, I guess Zero Time Dilemma will answer them and I really hope it doesn't abandon the future characters I've grown so fond of. I probably set my expectations too high, I knew going in that there was another sequel but it never crossed my mind that they wouldn't resolve this game's story here like they did with 999's last time. Still, I had a wonderful time playing and I hope you enjoyed following along and laughing at my many terrible predictions!

Define abandon

I also agree with it being a cool journey game. The puzzles were fun. The story was fun. The Twists were fun.

I don't have it in my top games of all time list or anything, but I thought it was a great experience that was evenly paced between puzzle rooms and exposition. I thought it was better than 999 in that regard in that 999 had a better ending but felt pretty uneven where there were large stretches of tedious puzzles and not much exposition

...is there another ending or something? Again my memory of this game is super shaky but I thought there was something else. Do you maybe have to collect something optional to see another ending?

According to the wiki, you do unlock the last ending by doing all puzzles on Hard mode.

It's not entirely necessary to read that though.

The best part about ending on a sequel hook is there was no guarantee there would be a sequel. In fact, it took many years for that miracle to happen.

andylt posted...

Why did they need to train her to jump?

Are you referring to how she can jump high while on the moon or something else?

TeamRocketElite posted...

The best part about ending on a sequel hook is there was no guarantee there would be a sequel. In fact, it took many years for that miracle to happen.

Are you referring to how she can jump high while on the moon or something else?

Jump timelines?

Oh, I guess that makes more sense. >_>

Yeah I meant why do they need her to jump timelines when Sigma is better at it and has a reason to be there in the first place, I know Da Moon made her jump high.

Sceptilesolar posted...

According to the wiki, you do unlock the last ending by doing all puzzles on Hard mode.

I've done all the puzzles on hard, have I missed an ending? The last one I got was Sigma and Akane talking in 2029 getting ready to go to the moon (and then eventually head to the Nevada test site to stop the pandemic)
masterplum posted...

I also agree with it being a cool journey game. The puzzles were fun. The story was fun. The Twists were fun.

I don't have it in my top games of all time list or anything, but I thought it was a great experience that was evenly paced between puzzle rooms and exposition. I thought it was better than 999 in that regard in that 999 had a better ending but felt pretty uneven where there were large stretches of tedious puzzles and not much exposition

Agreed with all of this!

andylt posted...

I've done all the puzzles on hard, have I missed an ending?

Check the flowchart again, there may be an extra bit

hombad46 posted...

Check the flowchart again, there may be an extra bit

So there is! Thanks hombad (and Rose and sceptile)! I'm sure the game didn't tell me another timeline had opened up >_>

Looks like I have more to do, I may have jumped to conclusions too soon. Will do this extra route tomorrow!