Board 8 > Games whose reputations have improved over the years

(+) Yeah! (+)

Natalie posted...

Which review was this? I didn't know about the game when it first came out, I missed the initial reception.

It was by Joystiq, iirc.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I dont remember Majora having a reputation that needed improving. Did people not like it early?

I remember people treating it almost like a spin-off at release because of how many OoT assets it reused and how short its dev time was. It also came out right around the time the PS2 came out, which was absolutely massive and sort of overshadowed almost anything that came out near it (Pokemon Gold/Silver probably being the big exception since that was sort of its own thing with a younger audience at the time). It's the one time I felt like you could make the argument that a 3D Zelda game wasn't one of the biggest games of the year.

The general consensus among those who played it IIRC was a lot of "good but not as good as Ocarina," and the time limit was fairly divisive.

majoras mask was never hated, but it was definitely not as loved as it has become the past 10 or so years. I think it being released right around when the PS2 was coming out caused Majoras mask to never be liked until retro gaming became way more popular.

Underleveled posted...

Another that I would have said a few years ago is Super Mario Sunshine. A lot of people hated that game when it came out but then years later said they liked it and wished they could play it again... until 3D All-Stars came out and they replayed it and remembered they hated it.

I replayed it in 2014 right after finishing 64 and I didn't think it was much worse, although I'd be lying if I said I didn't understand why people hated it. My main problems with both games were pretty much the opposite if anything.

Wind Waker/MGS2 hate was probably more a case of vocal backlash (mostly pre-release) sticking with the games for a few years. Those games always fared well in popularity polls so the extent to which they were "hated" was probably always exaggerated.

Gen 3 Pokemon isn't a bad example. It was the weak generation for a good while.

Things like No Man's Sky and FFXIV are obviously correct but they're also games where they were actually objectively made better, it wasn't just fans that changed their mind.

I think Raiden and maybe MGS2 in general is a really good example actually. Part of why he was hated was people not knowing about his existence, but that's not exactly the case anymore. I don't think it's his newer games, I just think people play that game and enjoy him more.

Underleveled posted...

A lot of people hated that game when it came out but then years later said they liked it and wished they could play it again... until 3D All-Stars came out and they replayed it and remembered they hated it.

Also this didn't actually happen, it was the people that always disliked it that got a reason to become loud again and pushed the idea that this was happening up until and after release. No one went from hate to enjoyable to hate. It's a decent but not too great answer, a classic example of a game that got complained about because it was a big step down from the big same franchise game on the previous console. Wind Waker is similar to this. Once the franchise jumped back up, people just stopped complaining about it as much as it was easier to look past. It always had its fans and still has, opinion probably didn't change much.

FFXII is also similar but is respected more once it became clear the franchise couldn't really ever jump back up to X levels (at least for non-MMO games).

Majora's Mask is my first answer for this.

Metal_DK posted...

majoras mask was never hated, but it was definitely not as loved as it has become the past 10 or so years. I think it being released right around when the PS2 was coming out caused Majoras mask to never be liked until retro gaming became way more popular.

The PS2 point is fair, but also MM was one of the earliest big examples I can think of where there was such backlash after following a successful game. Where I came from, the sequel to arguably the greatest game of all time then introduced weird time limits in a series that never had them before (and the time limit-usage was unique even for the industry at large). That upset me and the people around me. No way MM was a Game of the Decade-contender in 2000 through at least the entirety of the GameCube era.

MacArrowny posted...

It used to be weaker than MGS4 and now it's stronger :p

If we want to list games whose reputation has tanked over time, MGS4 is a prime example.

Final Fantasy 12

Earthbound is also a good one, but where I live it always had a good reputation and my friends liked it.(Even when it first came out)

Majora's Mask might be more popular among average gamers, but for the record this is from EGM's Top 100 list in 2001:

https://www.ignboards.com/threads/egms-top-100-games-list-from-issue-150-2001.455585502/

8. Zelda: OoT
7. Zelda: Majora's Mask

We saw MM get stronger in real time on GameFAQs.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3486-division-5-round-2-pokemon-zelda-mm-mgs-pokemon-gs
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4179-northwest-division-round-3-zelda-majoras-mask-vs-pokemon

Only took a year! Contrast this with MGS2:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/1632-division-128-round-1-super-smash-bros-melee-vs-metal-gear
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6160-best-game-ever-day-31-round-3-metal-gear-solid-2-vs-resident

Not much of a difference from 2004 to 2019.

MM getting 21% in that four-way poll is so bizarre, I don't know how to explain it at all

Paratroopa1 posted...

MM getting 21% in that four-way poll is so bizarre, I don't know how to explain it at all

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3462-division-5-round-1-banjo-kazooie-perfect-dark-pokemon-zelda

It just wasn't that great in 2009.

Also, adding Silent Hill 2 for consideration. It was well-received on release but it took years for people to become as fanatical about the game as they are now.

cyberpunk 2077

On the topic of Silent Hill, I've seen a lot of reappraisal for Silent Hill Downpour lately. That game was reviled when it released (I personally don't like it much either) but I've seen a lot of praise for it in its environments, atmosphere, story, and trying something a little different.

If we talk Pokemon generations I feel gen 5 (Black/White/B2/W2) is the "omg so good" generation of the midpoint generations, now that BD/SP came out and people realized it stunk apart from the music and the phys/special split.

X/Y deserves scorn, meanwhile.

People have been ranting and raving about BW/B2W2 since the day they came out.

Sonic Unleashed and heck, Sonic 06. Feel like Unleashed is now in the "good Sonic games" camp while 06 has somehow gotten reevaluated as being misunderstood or underrated.

Anyone trying to say Sonic 2006 is misunderstood hasn't actually played it

I feel like Unleashed was always kind of on-the-cusp between the good and bad 3D Sonics. If it's solidly in the "good" camp now though that's definitely an improvement.

Both of those games are still bad but especially Sonic 06.

Dear god, Sonic 06 is not underrated. No. It's great because the game is funny bad and that perception has not really changed over time (or at least not since the famous LP of it back in the day).

Sonic 2006 is definitely not an example. Memes=/=actual popularity

Leonhart4 posted...

If we want to list games whose reputation has tanked over time, MGS4 is a prime example.

Needs a rematch with SSBB imo.

TeamRocketElite posted...

Needs a rematch with SSBB imo.

Another game whose reputation has utterly tanked over the years haha

Oh FFIX is one too

now its probably one of the stronger FFs in a contest setting too, and fans will jump at you if you dont think its the best

Paratroopa1 posted...

MM getting 21% in that four-way poll is so bizarre, I don't know how to explain it at all

MM was getting leeched by the Pokemon games as well, so its percentage being low is not so much the problem to me as G/S/C getting so close to it when it should have been getting SFFd hard by RBY. I really can't explain it.

I have seen zoomers who grew up with 06 have a fondness for it, but they're not that sizeable of a group

The real winner of the 3D Sonic series has been Unleashed (the 360/PS3 version). A combination of the nostalgia cycle, people appreciating how ambitious its level design and scope was compared to everything that followed, and the 360 version looking pretty damn impressive on Xbox One X/Series X backwards compatibility probably helped it a lot.

KamikazePotato posted...

Raiden has two new games under his belt, including a popular starring role. I think people who disliked MGS2 Raiden still generally dislike MGS2 Raiden; they just think MGR Raiden is an upgrade.

Don't agree with this at all.

I think now that the series has played out people probably soften to Raiden across the board because Solid Snake now has his proper main character mantle pretty conclusively and Raiden has gained more appeal over the years so they can appreciate his beginnings.

KamikazePotato posted...

We saw MM get stronger in real time on GameFAQs.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3486-division-5-round-2-pokemon-zelda-mm-mgs-pokemon-gs
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4179-northwest-division-round-3-zelda-majoras-mask-vs-pokemon

Only took a year! Contrast this with MGS2:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/1632-division-128-round-1-super-smash-bros-melee-vs-metal-gear
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6160-best-game-ever-day-31-round-3-metal-gear-solid-2-vs-resident

Not much of a difference from 2004 to 2019.

Also I'd take 2019 RE4 to stomp 2004 Melee. 2004 was before NintendoFAQs. There's a reason Starcraft and FFX were able to try to beat it. Hard to know since 2019 is covered in SFF though but general vibe I feel it makes sense.

2015 genuinely might be the lowest time of MGSs popularity tbh

yeah V came out but the whole Kojima fallout probably hurt it a ton and I dont see the same fervor for the series that I did back then

I think it was less the Kojima fallout and more the series just...being done. MGS4 was the conclusion; everything after that is just bonus content. MGS5 would've had to be universally beloved to overcome that.

_SJimW_ posted...

I have seen zoomers who grew up with 06 have a fondness for it, but they're not that sizeable of a group

The real winner of the 3D Sonic series has been Unleashed (the 360/PS3 version). A combination of the nostalgia cycle, people appreciating how ambitious its level design and scope was compared to everything that followed, and the 360 version looking pretty damn impressive on Xbox One X/Series X backwards compatibility probably helped it a lot.

Sonic 06 is weird because its reputation started off so absolute rock bottom low that even having some nostalgic zoomers feels like an improvement. Just really a question of how to quantify "improvement". It also helps that we had so many other bad Sonic games afterwards like Forces and Boom that helped take some of the heat off 06.

I'll second Pokemon Black and White. From what I've seen, that generation is currently either the best one or the last good one, depending on who you ask.

I think Kingdom Hearts 2 is an example. That game was hated when it came out because it was too easy and more linear than the original, but the Final Mix additions made a world of difference. You have to learn how to use all the abilities you get now, instead of just mashing X, with the occasional /\ when prompted. The HD remasters including the Final Mix version instead of the original release did a lot to improve KH2's reputation.

Maybe Batman Arkham Origins is an example? At the time there was disappointment at it simply being more of the same, but nowadays it's considered to have the best story of the series. Then again, it is possible that people just miss it because it hasn't been re-released on modern systems, unlike the rest of the series.

No way was KH2 hated on release outside of a very small minority.

Lopen posted...

Also I'd take 2019 RE4 to stomp 2004 Melee. 2004 was before NintendoFAQs. There's a reason Starcraft and FFX were able to try to beat it. Hard to know since 2019 is covered in SFF though but general vibe I feel it makes sense.

FFX has always been within striking distance of Melee in every contest they've both been in

Starcraft was a combination of bandwagoning, rallying, and blatant cheating

LiquidOshawott posted...

2015 genuinely might be the lowest time of MGSs popularity tbh

yeah V came out but the whole Kojima fallout probably hurt it a ton and I dont see the same fervor for the series that I did back then

Was there really Kojima fallout? I was under the impression only the hardcore Hayter fans disliked it. V's only problem was Konami cutting off Kojima while he was 2/3 of the way finished with the game.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3466-division-6-round-1-ffx-mgs2-silent-hill-2-morrowind

There's no real clear sign of MGS2 improvement in any contest. It couldn't touch FFX or KH1 LFFing each other the next round either.

Then you have the loss to Shadow of the Colossus in GotD, which isn't as bad as it originally looked, but it also basically indicates that the game is around where it's always been: a borderline high midcarder.

I'm honestly struggling to think of many instances where a game got notably stronger over time in contests without some external factor. It seems rarer than things falling off. Like, Mass Effect 1 got way stronger after ME2 came out, but that doesn't feel like the spirit of what this topic is asking. Dark Souls and Bloodborne probably qualify but I think that was more GameFAQs catching up to the rest of the gaming sphere.

Although while we're talking about SotC:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3472-division-7-round-1-gears-of-war-k-hearts-2-re4-sotc

It then ran the MGS series gauntlet the very next year.

SOTC is definitely a game that got more popular and better known over time, not necessarily a situation where the game was initially disliked and the reputation changed. I'd put it in a similar situation with Phoenix Wright.

Another potential example: Bioshock.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3476-division-8-round-1-bioshock-little-bp-mgs4-portal
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4147-southeast-division-round-2-bioshock-vs-kingdom-hearts-ii
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6145-best-game-ever-day-24-round-2-metal-gear-solid-3-vs-bioshock

Just 2009->2010 was a big improvement. There was probably some sort of site shift there, as Majora, SotC, and Bioshock all seemed to perform way better one year later.

Leonhart4 posted...

SOTC is definitely a game that got more popular and better known over time, not necessarily a situation where the game was initially disliked and the reputation changed.

Well, I don't think there are any games that started out outright disliked and had their reputation turned around that drastically. Not unless it's an FF14 or No Man's Sky situation, and in those it's essentially a different game at that point. All the other examples given in this topic had at least an overall positive reception on launch.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/1618-division-32-64-round-1-pokemon-gold-silver-crystal-vs

GSC is a lot stronger today.

I don't know that Pokemon's reputation improved. We just got old enough to age out of the teenage mentality of "Pokemon is for babies."

I would say Pokmon Ruby Sapphire Emerald would be the best Pokmon choice just because I feel like at the time it was seen as a disappointment and now people are like "yea that was good cause all old Pokmon is good"

I think RSE's upswing was mostly driven by people who had it as their first Pokemon game, but it or Black probably qualifies.

KamikazePotato posted...

Another potential example: Bioshock.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3476-division-8-round-1-bioshock-little-bp-mgs4-portal
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4147-southeast-division-round-2-bioshock-vs-kingdom-hearts-ii
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6145-best-game-ever-day-24-round-2-metal-gear-solid-3-vs-bioshock

Just 2009->2010 was a big improvement. There was probably some sort of site shift there, as Majora, SotC, and Bioshock all seemed to perform way better one year later.

I feel like this is probably just improved playrate for BioShock with it being one of the "must have" games late adopters of the seventh gen HD twins picked up when they finally got around to getting a console

If anything that game's reputation seems to have decreased, anecdotally at least

Nah, Infinite's reputation has gone way down (another example of a game going in the opposite direction). I think the original is still going strong.

Came here to say Wind Waker.

But for another answer, Kirby Air Ride. It was treated very poorly in the 2000s. But now everyone wants a remake/remaster/sequel of it. Hm...