Current Events > Do you believe in a god/gods/other spiritual beings?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ryvell posted...

Where did you get the idea that a lack of belief in a higher power equals a lack of accountability for one's actions, or that it equals nihilism?

Someone on this board said that they believed that nothing in the world has a real existence or something to that effect, sounds pretty nihilistic to me. If not for a higher power, what drives your need to hold yourself accountable to anything or anyone? Human societal structures or governing entities?

falayyou01 posted...

Someone on this board said that they believed that nothing in the world has a real existence or something to that effect, sounds pretty nihilistic to me. If not for a higher power, what drives your need to hold yourself accountable to anything or anyone? Human societal structures or governing entities?

But that wasn't the person you were responding to. Morality holds me accountable. I don't need sky daddy to tell me what is right or wrong to know what is right or wrong, and if you *do*, that's a pretty alarming thing to admit.

falayyou01 posted...

Its convenient to live this way, without a sense of accountability for ones actions, but is nihilism really the answer?

So all atheists are nihilists who act as if there is no accountability for their actions? Or do you believe all moral, ethical atheists subconsciously believe in the Abrahamic God?

falayyou01 posted...

Someone on this board said that they believed that nothing in the world has a real existence or something to that effect, sounds pretty nihilistic to me. If not for a higher power, what drives your need to hold yourself accountable to anything or anyone? Human societal structures or governing entities?

How did we get from atheism to "some guy I saw on CE believes nothing is real"? And it's pretty terrifying that you can't comprehend how morality and accountability can exist for people who don't believe in a higher power or a life beyond this one.

No, I'm an atheist.

falayyou01 posted...

no one has replicated those conditions in a lab. Renowned scientists are afraid to speak out against the primordial soup argument because of pressure from within to conform and group think from within the scientific community. And it seems possible isnt a strong enough stance. What do you personally think is more likely, life arising from unlife, or life being brought into existence by an entity beyond human comprehension?

So God of the Gaps is the best you have? So once we know how the first life formed on the planet what then? Shift the goal posts?

When I was younger I would have said yes. But as time goes on and shit goes down in life and you never experience any evidence...

Religion pretty much works through brainwashing. That's how cults in general work. You're told things for so long that it seems normal and factual no matter how ridiculous it may really be. Fear is always thrown in there. Things like "faith" are added to keep people from questioning anything.

I remember first realizing this in Sunday school. We had a book of bible stories that we'd all read along to, and some of them were horrific regarding God mass slaughtering or mind fucking on a smaller scale. But none of these horrible things are presented as horrible on God's part in a church setting. In fact it's usually the victims who are blamed.

falayyou01 posted...

Someone on this board said that they believed that nothing in the world has a real existence or something to that effect, sounds pretty nihilistic to me. If not for a higher power, what drives your need to hold yourself accountable to anything or anyone? Human societal structures or governing entities?

My personal views could be summed up as optimistic nihilism. I believe there is no inherent meaning to life and existence. Therefore, there's no greater purpose I have to dedicate myself to, I can do what I want and derive my own meaning from life. The only person I hold myself accountable to is myself. I try to follow my own set of morals. There's no greater driving force, I just try to do what I consider right.

This falay person isnt the brightest bulb is he lol

falayyou01 posted...

Someone on this board said that they believed that nothing in the world has a real existence or something to that effect, sounds pretty nihilistic to me. If not for a higher power, what drives your need to hold yourself accountable to anything or anyone? Human societal structures or governing entities?

That was me and I said that there's no grand purpose to life, life is what you make of it. That's not nihilism, you just think it is because you cannot fathom creating your own purpose, your own meaning.

Now if I was stupid enough to think that it's impossible to create meaning and purpose then that would get pretty damn depressing, luckily I've not thought that even once in my life because it's nonsense.

You don't need gods to give your life meaning or purpose.

Woden and Tiw 8)

falayyou01 posted...

Arent they though?

by your definition, it can't be shown that anything is dependent on a god. in fact, the more we learn about the universe, the less is subject to a dependence on a god simply because we don't have a scientific answer..

also, if god isn't dependent on anything but their own existence, then why would they create us?

MirageOfRuins posted...

This falay person isnt the brightest bulb is he lol

they remind me of proudclad, and i wouldn't be shocked to learn that they are proudclad.

hockeybabe89 posted...

How did we get from atheism to "some guy I saw on CE believes nothing is real"? And it's pretty terrifying that you can't comprehend how morality and accountability can exist for people who don't believe in a higher power or a life beyond this one.

We see this issue pretty often today tbh. People believe as if a moral framework can only exist from humanity if there's a religious component to it, it's not good.

hereforemnant posted...

We see this issue pretty often today tbh. People believe as if a moral framework can only exist from humanity if there's a religious component to it, it's not good.

More than just not good, it's one hell of a self report. They're implying that were it not for religion, they would have no moral framework. Fear of literal divine judgement is all that's keeping some of these people from being evil. That's terrifying.

Humans were innately born with belief in a God. There's been many studies on this, some even done by Athiests. Testimony throughout history of God's existence is a valid form of evidence. What people then inwardly choose to do with that innate feeling is a choice. Just as athiests accuse thiests of believing due to fear of the unknown after death, I would argue that athiests/agnostics are choosing the easy way out to avoid personal accountability/responsibility on account of the terrifying prospect of there actually being a creator. If you're an athiest and you're accountable only to your own subjective sense of morality, then you're making yourself your own personal God. Theists would argue that there is an objective source for morality.

Dark_Arbron posted...

You literally stop existing completely, because we are just electrical impulses firing in sequence.

Wouldn't that contradict itself as the electriccity doesn't get destroyed. If that is what you are you transcend death.

Now I kinda get what you mean as I have knowledge of how a computer works. But fyi the computer is not the electricity but the system used to store it. In this case perhaps you mean the brain as a circuit storing charges.

falayyou01 posted...

Humans were innately born with belief in a God. There's been many studies on this, some even done by Athiests. Testimony throughout history of God's existence is a valid form of evidence. What people then inwardly choose to do with that innate feeling is a choice. Just as athiests accuse thiests of believing due to fear of the unknown after death, I would argue that athiests/agnostics are choosing the easy way out to avoid personal accountability/responsibility on account of the terrifying prospect of there actually being a creator. If you're an athiest and you're accountable only to your own subjective sense of morality, then you're making yourself your own personal God. Theists would argue that there is an objective source for morality.

Citation needed, which may be a little challenging with something as subjective as belief.

You're building some incredible strawmen (strawmans?) here. As an atheist, I wouldn't be so arrogant to tar every theist of believing due to fear. I think if you want to know what someone believes, you can't do better than just asking them. You may apply this advice should you so desire. I don't actively believe there is no god, I just never had any faith in one to begin with. I don't think it's impossible, but I'm not gonna change my entire life based on blind faith.

That said, which god(s) is the real one in your eyes and why? There have been literally thousands of religions over human history, what makes you think your one is the right one? What happens if you pick the wrong one? Most of them are kinda mutually exclusive too, you can't really cast a wide net here. What if you literally never had a chance to pick the right one, do you still get screwed over then? For example, if the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the "correct" one then what about all the others who never heard of him?

Also, what makes you think atheism is the easy way? Seems like it would be much easier to be a Christian imo. So long as you accept Jesus and repent for your sins, you get to go to heaven. That sounds dope! Even before the afterlife, you're supposed to have god looking out for his faithful too. In contrast, atheists get one life without divine protection and then you cease to exist. Which would you prefer?

Finally, what would you do differently if there was 100% no god? Would you do all the stuff that is considered bad?

Yeah, Pascal's Wager is stupid. I like to ask "What if the real god has never been followed by any humans? What if believing in the Abrahamic God is the biggest sin you can commit and guarantees you eternal suffering? Wouldn't we feel really stupid for dedicating our lives to something we couldn't prove and then turning out wrong?"

No one can give an answer beyond "Uhh... God is obviously real and you're just denying the clear evidence that is in front of you every day! He has to be real! You gotta have faith!"

And I agree with the above that I don't see how being atheist is the easy way. I'm fucking terrified of dying!

falayyou01 posted...

Humans were innately born with belief in a God.

Source please.

Speaking as a parent? This seems incredibly bullshit.

Also theists have no room to talk about morality, Christians for instance? Their holy books are cool with chattel slavery. Their religions morality is objectively atrocious.

Ryvell posted...

This is such a silly rationalization. Nobody knows what will happen if you plucked every individual hair out of your head, wove it into a blanket, and used it to swaddle a newborn aardvark under a full moon in July standing in the center of a circle of 1983 Ford F150s either. But it's almost certainly nothing, and believing it is or could something just because you can't *prove* it's nothing, is silliness.

I dont really believe in an afterlife per se, but what happens after death has kind of always fascinated me. Like its quite likely that death is nothingness, but ive never really been able to comprehend what nothing is.

Im heavily agnostic, I just also feel like what happens after death is interesting to think about.

Enclave posted...

Source please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7l0Rq9E8MY&ab_channel=IV-everTofu

WingsOfGood posted...

Wouldn't that contradict itself as the electriccity doesn't get destroyed. If that is what you are you transcend death.

Does a lamp stay on after you pull the plug out of the wall?

Nukazie posted...

and yet so many did and no one returned/made a sign to tell about it

jesus returned but he was so traumatized, he got the fuck outta here

dude had a 3 day lag on his respawn. He went and found another server.

I honestly have no answer to that.
Those concepts are beyond my level of understanding and any Human's pretty much.

Yes

Enclave posted...

Source please.

Speaking as a parent? This seems incredibly bullshit.

Also theists have no room to talk about morality, Christians for instance? Their holy books are cool with chattel slavery. Their religions morality is objectively atrocious.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110714103828.htm

Yes

As much shit as I give organized religion, there's a small part of me that wants to believe in a higher power.

As it stands however, I've no logical reason to do so.

Xatrion posted...

As much shit as I give organized religion, there's a small part of me that wants to believe in a higher power.

As it stands however, I've no logical reason to do so.

Theres more logical reasons to believe than not to. Do you believe it to be more logical that an infinite series of random events created the conditions for life as we know it, or can you accept the possibility that a creator fashioned the universe as he saw fit?

falayyou01 posted...

Theres more logical reasons to believe than not to. Do you believe it to be more logical that an infinite series of random events created the conditions for life as we know it, or can you accept the possibility that a creator fashioned the universe as he saw fit?

I can accept the possibility. But only thus. There's no proof or evidence of such.

falayyou01 posted...

Theres more logical reasons to believe than not to. Do you believe it to be more logical that an infinite series of random events created the conditions for life as we know it, or can you accept the possibility that a creator fashioned the universe as he saw fit?

That's the opposite of logic. Assuming a supernatural force did anything is illogical. By that train of thought, is it more likely that a cool rock I found outside was fashioned by an unknowable, supernatural being instead of millions or billions of years of geological processes.

falayyou01 posted...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110714103828.htm

Looking through that it seems to not so much suggest that kids are predisposed to believing in gods but more they are more open to believing what they're told. This is akin to kids being more likely to believe in stuff like Santa or Unicorns or Leprechauns rather than being naturally predisposed to believing in gods and an afterlife specifically.

I mean yeah, kids are gullible and want to believe in magic, that doesn't require a big study since they've yet to develop critical thinking skills.

People who do believe in God are so inconsistent, that it leads me to believe it's just their own thoughts.

I still pray out of habit, social conditioning is a real wonder.

If there is a spirit world and we ourselves are spirits inhabiting flesh, why do we need to be dead to perceive the reality of this?

no, but i apply spiritual labels to emergent phenomena

Further looking into the "study" it was conducted by Justin L. Barrett and Professor Roger Trigg.

Justin Barrett is a devout Christian. Here's a quote from one of this books

belief in God is an almost inevitable consequence of the kind of minds we have. Most of what we believe comes from mental tools working below our conscious awareness. And what we believe consciously is in large part driven by these unconscious beliefs.

Roger Trigg is a professor of Philosophy, focused on philosophy of religion. Not exactly an authority on psychology.

Really looking like Justin Barrett has a theory and then did a "study" to confirm his already decided on theory. In fact I can't seem to find any papers from him that are peer reviewed. He also seems to have completely built a career on trying to create links to human psychology and the Christian god. He also sure likes to use phrases like " God may have guided human cognitive evolution" which isn't entirely scientific.

Basically, the more I look into this the supposed paper referenced in that sciencedaily link is bunk and probably just done to sell books to theologians.

I suspect I've put entirely too much effort into looking into this nonsense. More effort than it deserves certainly.

Im torn.

Even though I am Jewish, the God as depicted in the Torah as far as I am concerned can not exist. I reject the chosen people stuff, creation in seven days, and even this idea that he has laws we are supposed to follow - well most of those laws anyway. I dont consider homosexuality an abomination, I reject slavery, and I find the Torah God to be a bit too human in his emotions to be taken seriously. Plus I often wonder why hed create all of those planets, stars, galaxies, whatever if this is the one he cares about.

That being said. If we accept that matter cant be created or destroyed, then where did the earliest atoms of matter come from, and how did those gases that came together to form the big bang come to be? Thats where my only explanation comes to become in the form of a creator.

Enclave posted...

I suspect I've put entirely too much effort into looking into this nonsense. More effort than it deserves certainly.

But thank you for doing it

I see the universe/nature as God

64 trolls ITP

S'all good though

Kronca posted...

64 trolls ITP

S'all good though

do we need to exorcise the trolls from you?

No.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Im torn.

Even though I am Jewish, the God as depicted in the Torah as far as I am concerned can not exist. I reject the chosen people stuff, creation in seven days, and even this idea that he has laws we are supposed to follow - well most of those laws anyway. I dont consider homosexuality an abomination, I reject slavery, and I find the Torah God to be a bit too human in his emotions to be taken seriously. Plus I often wonder why hed create all of those planets, stars, galaxies, whatever if this is the one he cares about.

That being said. If we accept that matter cant be created or destroyed, then where did the earliest atoms of matter come from, and how did those gases that came together to form the big bang come to be? Thats where my only explanation comes to become in the form of a creator.

you're probably a deist. personally, i just don't see why matter and energy couldn't have always existed, or why it couldn't have yet a god could have.

i'm not a militant atheist though. it's just religious people who are militant put me off in a similar way people like Richard Dawkins and crew do.

No, why would I?

Lack of belief in any form of a creator implies subscribing to the notion of infinity regress, which is incredibly unlikely, if not logically absurd.

falayyou01 posted...

Theres more logical reasons to believe than not to. Do you believe it to be more logical that an infinite series of random events created the conditions for life as we know it, or can you accept the possibility that a creator fashioned the universe as he saw fit?

The declining education system summarized in a post.

sporting gods exist, it's why the sox won in 2004 (i sat in the same place every game)

Also to clarify something, antitheism is a straw man.

Atheism does not mean we believe it is impossible for a creator deity to exist. We just have not been given any reasonable grounds or observations to even begin hypothesizing one. If you showed us clear and demonstrable proof that a god or gods existed, we wouldnt fight tooth and nail to deny it. We would update our knowledge base, the definition of science, and move on.

Those who do fight tooth and nail against demonstrable proof that contradicts and disprove their ideas though? Creationists. Projection as always.

The people who constantly talk about how you need religion for morality seem to ignore the correlation between religion and violent crime. Countries with the highest rates of religiosity have the most violent crime and within a country the most religious regions have the highest violent crime rates. So does that means religion causes violent crime? No, it's just a correlation. But it's also strong evidence that religion does not in fact provide the basis for morality.