Board 8 > Maniac plays Mass Effect 3 for the first time

(+) Yeah! (+)

Leonhart4 posted...

I guess we'll find out if the new Mass Effect ever comes out...!

Oh they are gonna backpedal on the endings so hard if it ever does.

Like Synthesis could be canon but then it stopped working for some reason or some shit.

Sorozone posted...

Synthesis is garbage because what was the point of the first game? It's not exactly what Saren wanted, but it basically is.

It doesnt track well with Sarens story because ME3s endgame just doesnt track very well with ME1s. Within its own context, ME3 presents it as a good thing. Visually, it gives people mint-green eyes, which is weird, but not at all the abomination that Saren became.

Its silly, but thats just how they ran with it. And, while it does stand stark against what ME1 presented, it isnt really a direct contradiction. Synthesis isnt Sarens warped, indoctrinated, vision. He didnt speak with the Catalyst; he got played by Sovereign. That is a major distinction.

Yeah, I think there is a distinction between Synthesis and Saren's warped, indoctrinated version that still leaves everyone as tools of the Reapers. I think it's still too similar that Shepard would be skeptical of it though.

Saren's version of synthesis was a lie. It was just indoctrination logic to convince him to sacrifice everyone to the Reapers. He wasn't trying to make a real synthesis and he did not have the ability to do so even if that really was his goal. His plan (if you don't stop it) just results in the reapers killing everyone and continuing the cycle.

Edit: should have gone to the next page before answering lol

redrocket posted...

Destroy is objectively a strict upgrade over Reject. There are no benefits to Reject, imagined or otherwise, that you dont also achieve with Destroy.

Yeah this was my thought.

Either you can kill the Geth/Edi or you can kill literally everyone.

Reject vs Destroy is basically the Trolley problem but with much bigger numbers.

kevwaffles posted...

Oh they are gonna backpedal on the endings so hard if it ever does.

Like Synthesis could be canon but then it stopped working for some reason or some shit.

I'm betting on Control but after repairing everything Eternal Shepard just takes the Reapers and leaves forever.

SaveEstelle posted...

He didnt speak with the Catalyst; he got played by Sovereign. That is a major distinction.

My issue is that the Catalyst/Leviathans in itself created the problem in the first place. The Reapers. It all comes from the same place. You can have the distinction, even if it is a major one but the end result is still the same. Just because it's presented in a nicely wrapped box doesn't make it good.

I love/hate Mass Effect. Hahah

Maniac64 posted...

Reject vs Destroy is basically the Trolley problem but with much bigger numbers.

Except if someone fucked up the trolley problem by putting the Geth/EDI on the tracks before the switch.

Leonhart4 posted...

Yeah, I think there is a distinction between Synthesis and Saren's warped, indoctrinated version that still leaves everyone as tools of the Reapers. I think it's still too similar that Shepard would be skeptical of it though.

I mean the only reason Reject works as an option is that all the choices have that issue. There is no reason to believe the Catalyst except that this is a game so its obviously real. Why do you trust that the Catalyst is really giving you the choice to just easily kill all of his Reapers? It could just as easily fire a blast that kills all organic life.

Control and Synthesis are just better versions of Cigarette Smoking Man and Saren's plans. And Destroy means sacrificing an entire race for the betterment of the galaxy. Which goes against curing the genophage and saving rhe geth.

Also if the Reapers are right some new synthetic race will be created and kill everything without even leaving a cycle to organic life a chance. (I still think that premise is incredibly flawed and ignores the reality of the Geth.)

Also also, if the reapers are destroyed the Leviathans become free to leave their planet and start enslaving everyone starting another massive war.

kevwaffles posted...

Except if someone fucked up the trolley problem by putting the Geth/EDI on the tracks before the switch.

True, its actually a version where the logical/moral struggle is removed because the better choice is obvious.

On a different topic (triple post but oh well, its my topic)

Final mission ranking:
Suicide Mission > Earth > Ilos

Though the cutscenes at the start of Earth may be the best of the whole series. And I love the break where you get to talk to everyone a final time and hear Wrex give a speech.

Overall game rankings: ME3 > ME1 > ME2 but all three are really good and 1 and two are really close.

Maniac64 posted...

There is no reason to believe the Catalyst except that this is a game so its obviously real.

I mean assume for a second the Catalyst was lying. To what end? What could he possibly need Shepard for that the Reapers couldn't do besides end it? Besides, no hidden catch could be worse than what they were already facing.

Heck yeah ME3, top ten game for me

Maniac64 posted...

It could just as easily fire a blast that kills all organic life.

This ignores the part where the Reapers already spare non-space traveling species. They could be much more thorough but that's not what they were ever going for.

kevwaffles posted...

I mean assume for a second the Catalyst was lying. To what end? What could he possibly need Shepard for that the Reapers couldn't do besides end it? Besides, no hidden catch could be worse than what they were already facing.

Yeah, there's no reason to offer a false solution to someone you know isn't prone to indoctrination and can't actually win the war on their own, no matter how hard they try.

Unless you're just trying to troll Shepard, but I feel like they'd see through it.

Good points.

Though if he is offering Destroy as an option and you trust that then I don't see any reason why you wouldn't trust him on what the other options are and will do.

Leonhart4 posted...

Heck yeah ME3, top ten game for me

Top 20 for me, but maybe top 10 if I'm actually talking quality and not personal favoritism.

Also I believe Mass Effect is a great example of a series where the whole is much better than the individual parts.

Maniac64 posted...

Good points.

Though if he is offering Destroy as an option and you trust that then I don't see any reason why you wouldn't trust him on what the other options are and will do.

Couldn't agree more. And I don't think he really misled about Synthesis (or Control) at all. When I complain about Synthesis, I just mean that I get the distinct impression it was written to be your "escape" or "true salvation" from Destroy or Control. So I picked it thinking I wasn't quite understanding what it would be like. But it was in fact explained quite properly.

Also I just want to point out that moving the Citadel through another Mass Effect gate is impossible and even if they could the timeframe they provide makes no sense for getting it to Earth.

You know what my big annoyance about ME3 and to a lesser extent ME2 is?

They make the humans way too powerful and important. The game becomes completely human centered. Not only does the Alliance provide the strongest military in the war assets, but that doesn't even include Cerberus. Humans seemingly have the two strongest militaries in the galaxy. Even though we were told the Turians had by far the strongest military. And the Geth were so strong a splinter group was challenging everyone.

Look at C-sec. It was Turian dominated and the first game talked about how it was hard for humans to move up the ranks. Less than 3 years later and a human Captain runs the most important branch (a corrupt human Captain who was in a bad area just months before) and we see as many if not more human than Turian agents.

ME1 makes humans an up and coming race with potential but still clearly behind the other major races.

Two games later and Humans are suddenly everywhere and running way too much. They also are in control of way too many planets. We can't find a second world for Krogans but Humans have dozens? Doesn't make sense to me.

Well, I think restricting krogan to their home planet was a deliberate decision of the other races

Also they DID give the Krogan many planets at one point.

kevwaffles posted...

Also they DID give the Krogan many planets at one point.

Did they? I must have misunderstood that. I thought a big part of the Krogan rebellion was because they weren't being allowed to take control of ither planets.

The Krogan Rebellions happened because they were conquering other races' planets despite the Council warning them to stop. They were given many planets as a reward for winning the Rachni Wars, but they decided to keep expanding after that.

They really were a sapient invasive species before the genophage.

Combine that with the fact that their reproduction rate was super high, and you get the genophage

Yeah Mordin explained that the genophage wouldn't actually lead to extinction. That it just reduced it to a stable rate.

I misunderstood the Krogan planet thing. That does make sense then.

There is a lot of lore in these games (which is a great thing) I'm sure i'm not keeping everything straight.

The truly fucked up part of the genophage is that it didn't actually reduce the amount of Krogans conceived. They were about 99.9% stillborn instead.

Yeah but the Salarians are pretty fucked up sometimes (being in their homeworld and hearing them was terrifying) so I don't know that they consider that any different since the end result is the same.

I'm not even clear on if most Salarians and other species even knew or believed that. It's mostly what Eve says that we have to go on that. But that might just be story inconsistencies.

It might also be that since they're egg births it's not viewed as badly as if they were live births.

Also tbf it was the Turians who used it. Though the Turians were also way more willing to undo it later.

Andromeda makes it pretty clear they all knew that

Good to know!

Maniac64 posted...

Top 20 for me, but maybe top 10 if I'm actually talking quality and not personal favoritism.

Also I believe Mass Effect is a great example of a series where the whole is much better than the individual parts.

Agree. When I rank games I just rank "Mass Effect trilogy" in my top 10 because while I do think 3 is the best (paticularly all the DLC), I bought them as one package, played them as one package one after the other, and it was really one long playthrough. It's cheating maybe. But, for example, ME1 became retroactively better in my mind because it's where you meet Wrex and Garrus - and ME3 is better because my decisions in the previous games kept them both alive.

kevwaffles posted...

I mean assume for a second the Catalyst was lying. To what end? What could he possibly need Shepard for that the Reapers couldn't do besides end it? Besides, no hidden catch could be worse than what they were already facing.

I wouldn't call it an outright lie but a difference in perspective. Like they present Synthesis as great, but what if you do it and you realise, idk, people lose individuality? Or they become grotesque monsters? Catalyst also completely ignores, you know, the issue of consent to allow people's DNA to be rewritten.

Basically things catalyst would either think are good, or not care about. There are details to Synthesis that are just... omitted enitrely and so to me there's too much to take on trust. So not really a real lie, more like a lie of omission or things the catalyst just never mentions. The general idea is explained, some specifics are explained, but it's too drastic a change to make without a truly complete picture.

Though if I'm honest, even with a complete picture I likely wouldn't pick it. That's why it's the worst to me I suppose. We aren't given all the specifics, and what we are given is already gross.

So we are now watching stuff on YouTube since we aren't planning to replay this (too much to play).

Already watched all the endings, saving Liara for last in ME1, and the romances of Tali and Garrus.

To watch list:
Kaiden romance (1 &2)
Ashley Romance (2&3)
Liara Romance
Thane Romance
Jack Romance
Miranda Romance
Samara Romance
Jacob Romance
Kelly "romance"
Traynor Romance
Cortez romance
Allers/Javik/Morinth/Vega/Aria "romance"
Alternate Shore Leave party scenes

Anything else to check out?

I quite liked seeing the alternatives for certain missions, if squadmates died in ME2.

There's a few funny conversations right at the end of the Citadel DLC, depending on who you bring (Liara/Tali and Wrex's are both particularly good)

The interrogation scene in Thane's Loyalty Mission has several permutations that are pretty good.

You can go down this rabbit hole forever if you want though. There are plenty of "every squadmate's reaction to [event]" videos out there.

also "shepherd is such a jerk" for ME1 is great just to see his most aggressive renegade reactions

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I linked him to those after he beat ME1 and ME2

Still great to this day

Yeah I watched the jerk compilation

XIII_Rocks posted...

I quite liked seeing the alternatives for certain missions, if squadmates died in ME2.

Oh right, that's one i want to see. Death scenes. Alao maybe Legion being taken on Tali's loyalty mission.

You can take Legion on Tali's recruitment mission, too, and you get some unique reactions

There's also a scenario in Zaeed's Loyalty Mission where Shepard can leave him to die, so you can look that one up too

Leonhart4 posted...

You can take Legion on Tali's recruitment mission, too, and you get some unique reactions

Yeah that is what I was thinking of. I imagine everyone just freaking out.

"YOU'VE GOT A GETH RIGHT BEHIND YOU!" lives in my head rent free forever

Watched Cortez because it was shorter.

Too much creepy looking renegade in these youtube videos.

Also im just looking for the romance in this romance video. I don't need it to be a basic plot summary or have literally every scene of the character even when they aren't romance based at all. 3 hour video for half of it to be relevant.