Board 8 > Can we talk about Expedition 33's ending? *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

I have literally just beaten E33! I thoroughly enjoyed this game, had a few quibbles with the story structure in places but found it to overall be a fantastic experience. ...Until the ending(s), which I am very frustrated by! These are rough thoughts and gut reactions, but I had to talk about this somewhere.

Honestly I'm pretty baffled by the whole deal. We spend an entire game in this world with these characters, but at the end the writing treats the canvas world as an escapist fantasy to be grown out of, nothing more than a backdrop to explore the grief of the Dessendre family. Are we supposed to think that Lune, Sciel, Gustave, Sophie, and everyone else wasn't ever truly 'alive'? I can't believe that's the goal here.

It's a JRPG staple to end the game killing god in the name of free will, but in this one we either destroy the entire world on behalf of the Dessendre creators, or have one of our characters controlled by one of them to become a benevolent tyrant. It feels like bleakness for bleakness' sake. The Verso ending is clearly meant to be the 'true' one, but I feel like both disrespect the characters that we have spent the whole game with.

Verso himself is a fascinating character, but he ends the game regressing back to where he started. Desperate to end his life, and willing to destroy his whole world and everyone in it in order to save one of the family who created him. Of course it's unhealthy for Alicia to remain in the canvas forever, but what of Maelle? She was born and raised in this canvas, does she not get a say? Honestly, does she even exist in Act 3? There's a line mentioning that she remembers two childhoods now, but most of her actions taken in the last act are those of Alicia. Monoco and Esquie are strange cases, how alive are they supposed to be? And of course nobody gets disrespected more than Lune and Sciel, whose lives are apparently to be tossed away without a thought. Bless Lune for staring daggers at Verso and sitting her ass down in his ending, at least one person isn't letting him pretend he's doing the greater good here.

I'm frustrated because I feel like the writers fell at the last hurdle. They could've kept their message about moving on and not losing yourself in escapism without destroying the world we spent the whole game in. Maybe somehow isolate the canvas so it continues to exist but nobody else can enter or leave? I dunno, am I alone here? Have I missed the message? Did I simply fail to switch my allegiance to the Dessendres in Act 3? Would love to hear others' thoughts.

You're forgetting that the game was made by artists and writers. What they are saying is that stories and art is the most powerful thing, equal or even stronger than reality. Nolan movies do this too for example. They show the negative effects of obsessing over art through Alicia and Verso, and treat them as antagonists, but ultimately they are claiming that their story is so real that it's dangerous. In this case I think it's a clear metaphor for the dev's own game development process, where the Dessendres want to keep working and make things perfect, whereas Verso is willing to cut content to finish development and ship the game.

I think your feelings are pretty valid and basically match my own. Discussions about the ending get annoying to me because plenty of people do in fact feel "the canvas characters aren't real so nothing that happens to them matters" (and in fact they believe that's what the game told them at the end of act 2) and I think there's no way that is true because no artist/writer creates characters, models them, voice acts them, writers hours of dialogue for them, all to then say "oh they're basically just AI they don't feel anything anyway" so it's flatly wrong imo to assume that. And yet, if Lune and Sciel and etc are real people, the ending does disrespect them, yeah.

Verso ending is like God flooding the world to destroy His creations, preserving only who He cares about. Many old-fashioned believers see this as acceptable - God is free to destroy as many of His creations as he likes. After all, humans aren't as important as God, right? They're not as real as He is.

Many modern Christians would disagree with that though, and find human lives important, even if they were created by a higher being. Which side are you on?

andylt posted...

They could've kept their message about moving on and not losing yourself in escapism without destroying the world we spent the whole game in.

They didn't want to tell that story though. They wanted to put players in the position of having two bad choices. Death and grief in real life doesn't get a happy ending, so why should the game?

andylt posted...

Are we supposed to think that Lune, Sciel, Gustave, Sophie, and everyone else wasn't ever truly 'alive'?

I immediately viewed them as such and sought to destroy the world they lived in

If you feel that the gang is "alive" and Verso's canvas is more important than the family then you pick the Maelle ending but recognize it's an awful choice for both her and Verso. (I chose this on my first clear!)

If you feel breaking this unhealthy cycle and being able to move on is more important then you pick Verso and recognize it's a better choice for him and Maelle but comes at the cost of the world you've come to know. (Honestly not even necessarily at the cost of the characters though as they could in theory be repainted after Maelle is in a better place mentally - they may not be exactly the same as their prior forms but this is already true of all the people Maelle brings back within the canvas)

I accept that the Maelle ending is more of a personal tragedy (she can't let go of Verso and loses herself, denies Verso his right to die) but it doesn't mean it's bad to save the canvas people. It is unfortunately really framed around the negative aspects though.

The Maelle ending is happy in every way. She'll live out her natural lifespan, Verso and everyone else will die of old age, and then she'll return to her world as Alicia.

In the Verso ending, she commits suicide after Verso kills everyone she's come to love. No one's happy.

Am I making it up or is a part of Maelle's ending that he finally becomes mortal and can actually die and live until he reaches old age?

Those endings made me feel some emotions games rarely bring out in me. I loved both. Emotional and thought provoking, twist filled and entertaining. Id say they were a strength of the game.

Some interesting takes, thanks for the responses. I like the thematic ideas here in theory far more than in practice.

I think the biggest obstacle for me is the framing, the climax is entirely about what is best for Alicia's future. Lune and Sciel do not get to make a case for themselves and their world, their only dialogue in the sequence is to argue for Alicia's right to live life on her own terms. And I really think the game is pushing Verso's ending as the true one and Alicia's as a false nightmare, they do not feel like equivalents.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Am I making it up or is a part of Maelle's ending that he finally becomes mortal and can actually die and live until he reaches old age?

He's older in the final sequence, yeah. Though notably unhappy.

MacArrowny posted...

The Maelle ending is happy in every way. She'll live out her natural lifespan, Verso and everyone else will die of old age, and then she'll return to her world as Alicia.

I think the implication is that she'll die in the canvas like Aline was close to doing. Though given Aline survived for 67 years in the canvas and the time dilation stuff... yeah who knows. And eventually I figure the rest of the family will drop in to get her out if she doesn't leave of her own accord.

andylt posted...

Of course it's unhealthy for Alicia to remain in the canvas forever, but what of Maelle? She was born and raised in this canvas, does she not get a say? Honestly, does she even exist in Act 3?

From my understanding, they're the same person, it's just that Maelle had amnesia of her life as Alicia until the big gommage at the end of Act 3

andylt posted...

He's older in the final sequence, yeah. Though notably unhappy.

That's right. I mostly went with that ending because I thought Verso could find happiness knowing that eventually he would pass. I thought it was a fair enough of a compromise.

I also felt that the real world wasn't necessarily great either, and that the family seemed like they sucked even before the tragedy. On top of that, there's more lore about a war happening and the painters being targeted, so it made it less appealing to go back to.

To me, one of the points of the third act is that there are multiple ways of coping with grief. All of them are bad in their own ways, and most of them are good in their own ways. Like, part of the way Amelia's family coped was by abusing her, which was definitely a bad way of coping. I don't think we're supposed to believe she'll be happy because she goes back to her abusive family in the Verso end.

MacArrowny posted...

and then she'll return to her world as Alicia.

No. Very no.

andylt posted...

Lune and Sciel do not get to make a case for themselves and their world

They are definitely discounted after Verso is introduced. There's the relationship scenes and such, but in the story, they are basically forgotten. By Act 3 they might as well not exist. I don't think it's intentional by the devs, I think they just didn't develop them well enough.

And the devs definitely think the Verso ending is the true one. That's a bad part of the ending, that it presents this choice but in a biased way, so you don't actually need to make a moral analysis. You just follow what the devs want, which is the Verso ending.

MacArrowny posted...

The Maelle ending is happy in every way. She'll live out her natural lifespan, Verso and everyone else will die of old age, and then she'll return to her world as Alicia.

In the Verso ending, she commits suicide after Verso kills everyone she's come to love. No one's happy.

holy misreadings batman

Maelle's is just a typical French ending, while Verso is the intended ending.

It's just that the game doesn't let you marinate enough into the dessendre family drama enough for you to particularly care about them as much as you do with your companions that you just spent 30 hours with. It's just an inherent weakness in the writing to keep the mystery of the world afloat.

I picked Maelle's ending and don't regret it. It was the more natural conclusion to what you had been fight for. And if everyone is gonna be selfish, then Lune and Sciel and Gustave get to live. Sorry Verso.

MacArrowny posted...

The Maelle ending is happy in every way. She'll live out her natural lifespan, Verso and everyone else will die of old age, and then she'll return to her world as Alicia.

In the Verso ending, she commits suicide after Verso kills everyone she's come to love. No one's happy.

what in the world

everything in this post is so wrong I feel like you're doing a bit to get a rise out of someone

Sorozone posted...

It's just that the game doesn't let you marinate enough into the dessendre family drama enough for you to particularly care about them as much as you do with your companions that you just spent 30 hours with. It's just an inherent weakness in the writing to keep the mystery of the world afloat.

Yeah this is the problem I had too. I spent the whole game in the canvas world and way too little time in the "real" world to care about it. Also the Dessendre family seem like jerks anyway, so there's very little payoff for destroying the world you've become attached to.

Also Verso is kind of a jerk too and keeps betraying the party towards the end so I don't really care to give him a happy ending either.

Aecioo posted...

what in the world

everything in this post is so wrong I feel like you're doing a bit to get a rise out of someone

Why would Alicia not commit suicide in the Verso ending?

foolm0r0n posted...

You're forgetting that the game was made by artists and writers. What they are saying is that stories and art is the most powerful thing, equal or even stronger than reality. Nolan movies do this too for example. They show the negative effects of obsessing over art through Alicia and Verso, and treat them as antagonists, but ultimately they are claiming that their story is so real that it's dangerous.

on top of that, don't forget the studio is french! there's a looong french legacy (in film, at least) of endings that don't make perfect sense, mostly in an effort to be a downer/existential. so yeah, the endings wanted to make us feel bad and/or thonk hard.

honestly, i was frustrated at first, and it's not perfect, but i'm fine with maelle's ending. we get to live our lives the way we choose, Maelle made a choice. the direction of the cutscene felt super judgy but i'm over it. Annoying that they had to go and character assassinate her with madness, and her tormenting Verso|playable specifically. But... even if i'm overall a proponent of negative utilitarianism, it pains a little to say but i think verso's depression is probably an acceptable sacrifice for the literal rest of the world

i don't think the game implied that Gustav/Lune/etc weren't alive, just that most of the painters didn't give a fuck about them. They're gods, and they'll compartmentalize. Imagine... poor metaphor, but I dunno, someone in the real life USA sacrificing everything to move to and do volunteer work in Syria. Their family's probably gonna plead for them to come back and live a normal life regardless.

MacArrowny posted...

Why would Alicia not commit suicide in the Verso ending?

I mean it's a huge assumption to call that a certainty when we literally see her in the Verso ending quite alive at real Verso's funeral.

Better question: Why would Renoir even care if they just age out of the painting just fine? His whole motivation is that they will deteriorate and die. It's the literal reason for the narrative conflict period.

Sorozone posted...

It's just that the game doesn't let you marinate enough into the dessendre family drama enough for you to particularly care about them

That's really it. I thought Act 3 would've been all about the outer world and the war and such but it went even deeper into the canvas world.

It was essentially the devs admitting that they are Alicia/Maelle. They got too lost in their own sauce to make a complete and well-rounded story. It's ok because the fantasy is fun enough, but they do recognize they are under prioritizing the larger world.

I see what you mean. At the same time, I don't mind it when a story doesn't tour the player/reader/viewer through every single thing going on in the setting like Forrest Gump. Nice to leave something to the imagination

They had a story to tell about grief, and the stuff going on in the broader setting wasn't important.

It's like complaining The Sound of Music didn't explain ww2

But I agree they misstepped in terms of getting us invested in the painter family.

It felt like they decided the end of the game (painter family conflict) first, then went back and made a sub plot for the rest of the game that became narratively more important than the original plot in terms of player investment

But they couldn't/wouldn't get rid of their original ending. So there's this unnatural jump to what feels to us players like a secondary meta plot where they drop almost all the themes and characters we were invested in

MacArrowny posted...

Why would Alicia not commit suicide in the Verso ending?

I'll assume you're arguing in good faith and not trolling...

She went into the painting to save her family. She is clearly unhappy, disfigured, broken, etc. in the "real" world but she went in not to see Verso, or live out some fantasy, or escape reality... she did it to save her parents. The only suicide she chose was to stay in the painting (in her ending). That your takeaway was that she will live out a happy life in the painting before hopping out at the end and then living a complete life as Alicia is a fundamental misunderstanding of the plot of this game - the entire plot hinges on the fact that they are rotting to death by staying in the painting and not leaving

anyway, the biggest thing that I hope they explore is the outside battle of writers vs painters. There is clearly some power struggle between factions and it's implied that all "artists" are able to warp reality and create worlds (musicians as well given that Verso is ostracized for choosing music over painting). I hope that's the direction they take these games as the few throwaway lines about how the family came to ruin by the "writers" faction attacking them is super interesting to me. I enjoyed that the story is very self contained but the breadcrumbing of this larger universe has so much potential

Aecioo posted...

I'll assume you're arguing in good faith and not trolling...

now why would you do that

I have struggled with it a lot in recent weeks, yeah.

I'm not sure how much I love the whole "canvas" twist in the first place. I'm into the whole story about grief, avoidance of it, the family's reaction to it, the symbolism within the world through the Axons, etc. I'm also into the whole classic adventure, the "fighting through a strange fantasy land to fight a clearly-defined villain in order to save the world" thing, Gustave's old-school sort of heroism, all that.

I'm just not sure I'm into both of those things within the same game.

I'm definitely not sure about the former completely eclipsing the latter. Maelle returning the journals to Gustave's apprentices when they return feels so pointless because she either brings back Gustave or all the apprentices cease to exist anyway, rendering their grief irrelevant. It's a bittersweet moment that the game actively undercuts. Gustave's death is genuinely sad, and heroic, which the game also actively undercuts. Then the exploration in Act 3 feels like a different game entirely.

I did go with Verso's ending. The world was doomed either way when Maelle eventually lost herself, and in doing so she poisons her relationship with Verso by forcing this facsimile of him to stay alive against his will. Miss Lune and Sciel? I'm sure they can just be (more or less) painted again. Their new painted versions in another canvas could, I'm sure, be as similar to the originals as painted Verso was to real Verso (because they aren't the same. Was real Verso over a hundred, unable to be killed, and tired of living?).

And speaking of which, Sciel and Lune becoming completely pointless later on was really shitty. Right before the final boss where they both approach Renoir and have a 60 second chat with him was so transparently the writers realising that and giving them something to do - so obvious that it almost insulted me. As if I would see it as anything else but that.

Anyway, eh. Terrific game, and I don't hate the twist, but replaying it makes the entire first act feel like it's patronising the cast, particularly Gustave. "Aww, did the nasty Sakapatate shoot you with its cannon? Poor fake thunder man, don't worry, run along in your silly ignorance and play with the quirky paintbrush people. You blind moron."

Is it possible that the bolder choice would have been to establish the painted world from the start and try to invest the players in the expedition quest while knowing they're all inside a canvas? We've seen "this isn't the 'real' world" twists before but it might have been more interesting to play those two stories simultaneously somehow instead of one eclipsing the other so completely. You'd have to change a lot but I might have enjoyed that more.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Am I making it up or is a part of Maelle's ending that he finally becomes mortal and can actually die and live until he reaches old age?

I thought she just painted him older because then he might be happier, based on something he said earlier on which is quoted in the ending.

MZero posted...

now why would you do that

I've been trying to give people more grace recently. Something I've struggled with, because while it would be easier to say "lol I bet you also think the takeaway from Lost is they were dead the entire time!", I realized that's not the best way to live my life :(

MacArrowny posted...

The Maelle ending is happy in every way. She'll live out her natural lifespan, Verso and everyone else will die of old age, and then she'll return to her world as Alicia.

The Maelle ending is the Twilight Zone "Anthony and the cornfield" ending. You absolutely do not want Maelle in charge of that world in her mental state, which is explicitly shown to be slipping with every moment she spends in the canvas.

Aecioo posted...

I've been trying to give people more grace recently. Something I've struggled with, because while it would be easier to say "lol I bet you also think the takeaway from Lost is they were dead the entire time!", I realized that's not the best way to live my life :(

Fair enough, I just assumed trolling because before this Mac came in with the Christianity thing that no one bit on

Some great posts here, and selfishly I am glad I'm not the only one to feel this way about the ending >_>

foolm0r0n posted...

It was essentially the devs admitting that they are Alicia/Maelle. They got too lost in their own sauce to make a complete and well-rounded story. It's ok because the fantasy is fun enough, but they do recognize they are under prioritizing the larger world.

I hadn't thought of this but it does explain things, I had thought of Maelle as merely the creators' pet fav the whole game but this is more fitting.

banananor posted...

It felt like they decided the end of the game (painter family conflict) first, then went back and made a sub plot for the rest of the game that became narratively more important than the original plot in terms of player investment

But they couldn't/wouldn't get rid of their original ending. So there's this unnatural jump to what feels to us players like a secondary meta plot where they drop almost all the themes and characters we were invested in

I wonder if the alternative ending was a late addition to account for this. But then they probably wouldn't have made it so judgmental, so maybe not.

XIII_Rocks posted...

And speaking of which, Sciel and Lune becoming completely pointless later on was really shitty. Right before the final boss where they both approach Renoir and have a 60 second chat with him was so transparently the writers realising that and giving them something to do - so obvious that it almost insulted me. As if I would see it as anything else but that.

Ha, I thought the same thing back with the Axons where each of them take centre stage for a few minutes. I don't think Lune even gets dialogue when she saves the day with Sirene (that was a great sequence, though). Everyone other than Maelle was sidelined when Verso showed up, but I still didn't expect them to be thrown away quite so violently in the end.

The canvas twist itself took me a bit to accept, but I trusted where they were going with it back then. Yeah, it completely eclipsing the canvas world in importance was a choice.

banananor posted...

They had a story to tell about grief, and the stuff going on in the broader setting wasn't important.

It's like complaining The Sound of Music didn't explain ww2

I don't think what they focused on was bad, it turned out pretty nice overall. But it is true that the game introduced a lot of characters and setting that it did not develop. Maelle and Verso were really it, and Renoir to a lesser extent. They overpromised in a lot of ways.

But you're right that the story is structured like a movie more than anything. It's 25 hours not 80. So maybe it should be judged like a movie, not like an epic JRPG or anime series, despite how directly inspires it is from those.

I picked the Verso ending because its the only one that made sense to me. Living in a fantasy world is nice but you have to go back to reality no matter how much it hurts.

Maelle ending is the best by far. You guys just don't trust Maelle.

I will say the world of the canvas doesn't make much sense in the Maelle ending. Bringing characters back from death has so many implications about their society now. Do people die of old age still? Does death even exist at all? What was society like when Aline first went in?

I do think it is an underappreciated part of the Verso ending that things will not necessarily get better for Alecia. In that ending she continues to get jerked around by what her family wants for her or thinks is good for her, not what she wants or is actually best. Verso is obviously defined by being an extremely selfish character. Her parents catharsis in that moment centers around themselves as they've been battling for decades. Her older sister is a complete piece of shit girlboss who doesn't actually care about the well-being of the family, she is motivated by revenge and wants the others to stop fucking around so everyone can get back to work. Notice how in the final shot, Alecia is completely alone. She actually has no one. We see the crew wave a happy goodbye to her, but this completely contradicts that we just saw Lune and Sciel pissed as hell at Verso! She is, once again, imagining a fantasy to escape her reality.

If there is a failure of the endings I think it's that the downsides of Verso ending are left to this subtext, meanwhile Maelle's ending has a literal jump scare that makes it appear more obviously worse. But I don't think that is what is actually going on, I think Alecia/Maelle is pretty fucked in both scenarios.

How have we made it this far without a comparison to FFTA/Marche?

redrocket posted...

How have we made it this far without a comparison to FFTA/Marche?

Entirely different situation because FFTA Ivalice is the real world transformed

Aecioo posted...

She went into the painting to save her family. She is clearly unhappy, disfigured, broken, etc. in the "real" world but she went in not to see Verso, or live out some fantasy, or escape reality... she did it to save her parents.

Am I misremembering? I was under the impression she went in to prevent Renoir from destroying the painting, and with it, the last trace of Verso's soul. Saving their parents (and Alicia) was painted Verso's objective, not hers.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I do think it is an underappreciated part of the Verso ending that things will not necessarily get better for Alecia. In that ending she continues to get jerked around by what her family wants for her or thinks is good for her, not what she wants or is actually best. Verso is obviously defined by being an extremely selfish character. Her parents catharsis in that moment centers around themselves as they've been battling for decades. Her older sister is a complete piece of shit girlboss who doesn't actually care about the well-being of the family, she is motivated by revenge and wants the others to stop fucking around so everyone can get back to work. Notice how in the final shot, Alecia is completely alone. She actually has no one. We see the crew wave a happy goodbye to her, but this completely contradicts that we just saw Lune and Sciel pissed as hell at Verso! She is, once again, imagining a fantasy to escape her reality.

This is an excellent way of putting it.

redrocket posted...

How have we made it this far without a comparison to FFTA/Marche?

It's been in the back of my mind the whole time yeah

Verso finished his father's work. Maelle would have taken after her mother.

I prefer Verso's ending. Yes it's sad and it makes the Expedition a failure.

But the overarching story is to get Alicia back and save her.

Verso should not have to be the martyr for Alicia's happiness.

Shit, do I have to play FFTA now?

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

She is, once again, imagining a fantasy to escape her reality.

This went completely over my head and is a solid point. Rewatching it, I missed that Gustave is in that group shot too.

pjbasis posted...

I will say the world of the canvas doesn't make much sense in the Maelle ending. Bringing characters back from death has so many implications about their society now. Do people die of old age still? Does death even exist at all? What was society like when Aline first went in?

I don't think the game wants us to think too deeply about what it means to paint life, but I'll admit I have wondered how it works in general. Aline painted facsimiles of her family, Verso painted his childhood dog and toy, Clea painted over other people's creations, but what about the people of Lumiere? When Lune's mother gave birth, was Lune painted by Verso's soul or is life entirely separate from the painters at that point? I prefer to think it's organic life growing by itself, but I dunno. Again I know this isn't what the game wants us to think about lol.

Rango posted...

Verso should not have to be the martyr for Alicia's happiness.

Verso still prioritises the Dessendres' lives over anyone in his world even at the endgame, which fits with how he was 'programmed' when Aline created him. But it's a shame they didn't have him try to move past that and become his own person, imo. I understand sad endings but I don't think this is satisfying for literally any of the characters in the party >_>

MacArrowny posted...

Am I misremembering? I was under the impression she went in to prevent Renoir from destroying the painting, and with it, the last trace of Verso's soul. Saving their parents (and Alicia) was painted Verso's objective, not hers.

Unclear. We witness that Clea originally sent Alicia in to save their parents, then Alicia somehow lost control and got 'reborn' by Aline. As we saw, Clea for some sociopathic reason is only mildly annoyed by this and leaves to go to the office or whatever. We aren't explicitly told Alicia's motivation to go in and my memory is a little hazy, but I think we got the impression Alicia was already over life outside the painting at that point. But she was also concerned for her parents. Regardless of what she wanted at the time, add in 16 years of formative life experience inside the painting and you can see where that ends up

foolm0r0n posted...

I don't think what they focused on was bad, it turned out pretty nice overall. But it is true that the game introduced a lot of characters and setting that it did not develop. Maelle and Verso were really it, and Renoir to a lesser extent. They overpromised in a lot of ways.

totally. honestly, i was pissed from the moment they made Verso the main character without revealing his motives. imagine in ff7 if, when you recruited Cait Sith, they immediately (or later, but before explaining his backstory) made him the main character for the rest of the game. My stance is they should've promoted Lune instead. Again, everything makes more sense through the lens of the final act being the first thing locked in

But you're right that the story is structured like a movie more than anything. It's 25 hours not 80. So maybe it should be judged like a movie, not like an epic JRPG or anime series, despite how directly inspires it is from those.

Aecioo posted...

anyway, the biggest thing that I hope they explore is the outside battle of writers vs painters. There is clearly some power struggle between factions and it's implied that all "artists" are able to warp reality and create worlds (musicians as well given that Verso is ostracized for choosing music over painting). I hope that's the direction they take these games as the few throwaway lines about how the family came to ruin by the "writers" faction attacking them is super interesting to me. I enjoyed that the story is very self contained but the breadcrumbing of this larger universe has so much potential

it was telegraphed it was more of an easter egg/4th wall thing imho. i.e. just as the painted world and its pains were created by the Dessendres (painters), the painter's world was literally written by sandfall interactive (writers) who were dickheads for creating the fire, verso's death, alicia's disfigurement, the painting needing to be powered by a sad fragment of a child's soul, etc etc. Imagine how much better off the Dessendres would be if they had been written by ConcernedApe

Not sure I agree that in order to be good jrpgs must gump everything, but I absolutely understand being disappointed we didn't get to explore the easter egg more- go to France and fight Jennifer Svedberg-Yen, etc.

Rango posted...

I prefer Verso's ending. Yes it's sad and it makes the Expedition a failure.
But the overarching story is to get Alicia back and save her.
Verso should not have to be the martyr for Alicia's happiness.

Are you saying this from the perspective that Gustav, Lune, Sciel, et al. aren't sentient? Or that they are? If verso's feelings matter, surely everyone else's must, too?

andylt posted...

Shit, do I have to play FFTA now?

FFTA's issue is less blatant and not as intentional.