Board 8 > Can we talk about Expedition 33's ending? *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

andylt posted...

When Lune's mother gave birth, was Lune painted by Verso's soul or is life entirely separate from the painters at that point? I prefer to think it's organic life growing by itself, but I dunno. Again I know this isn't what the game wants us to think about lol.

Right? It's stated and accepted as fact that the world can't exist without ghost-verso's toil, but I would have enjoyed that clarified a bit more before the ending choice.

Seems like either ghost-verso has to paint to keep time moving or maintain the rules of physics, or ghost-verso has to paint the behavior of everybody. And the distinction matters to me, ha.

banananor posted...

totally. honestly, i was pissed from the moment they made Verso the main character without revealing his motives. imagine in ff7 if, when you recruited Cait Sith, they immediately (or later, but before explaining his backstory) made him the main character for the rest of the game. My stance is they should've promoted Lune instead. Again, everything makes more sense through the lens of the final act being the first thing locked in

Before the ending, this was my biggest problem with the game's story. Not a massive problem, but enough for me to notice. I think throwing Verso at us immediately after Gustave's death was a mistake, it undercuts losing him and I think we lost some solid team bonding potential between the girls by having this mysterious immortal superhero swoop in and give everyone hope right away (as well as replacing Gus as Maelle's brother/father figure).

I remember Lune asking Verso pertinent questions in their first optional convo, and the screen fades to black before he answers. Maybe I relate to Lune too much, but it was kinda maddening to be playing as this all-knowing hero without knowing anything he knew! It took me a long time to connect to him, and I didn't believe that the characters wouldn't constantly be asking him things and questioning his motives more. The only real conflict they have in Act 2 is very brief in Old Lumiere about Renoir being his dad. I think his role would've worked more easily if he joined up a little later on and not as the new main character right away.

100%. the player's experience matches lune's completely, but they play off her desire for answers as weird, quirky, or irrelevant. Verso intentionally allowing gustav to die was foreshadowed and important narratively, it's just that the party dynamics in act 2 weren't super believable.

pretty much all of the game's problems are symptoms of excessive "architect" writing as opposed to "gardener"- there are interesting story beats which are cool in a vacuum, but the connective tissue doesn't quite work

banananor posted...

As we saw, Clea for some sociopathic reason is only mildly annoyed by this

Because from her perspective it's probably only like a couple of weeks.

andylt posted...

I remember Lune asking Verso pertinent questions in their first optional convo, and the screen fades to black before he answers.

No yeah, the whole structure of the plot is wrong and playing as a PoV character who you don't actually know any of the things they know and in fact cut to black before they explain those things but then keep playing as them definitely bothered me as well. It made the protag swap feel worse than it already did.

The shift in plot direction also creates an issue with the prologue - because, I think (not that this has to be a rule for all media), you kind of want your story to come full circle? When it starts with such a poignant moment, it feels like the ending should in some way relate to "we did all this for Sophie", whether to get her back, to honor her memory, etc... And yet that's not the case at all because Gustave is gone and we're told he never mattered (wow what a twist so shocking super edgy) and even Maelle, who knew her, has been kind of erased as was said in this topic already because Alicia is the dominant personality now.

Of course, you can get her back and make the expedition a success if you choose the Maelle ending and on paper it's happy enough for the painted people other than the game throwing in a creepy shot of Maelle at the end to make sure you know this was the wrong choice.

I'm not even sure Alicia is the dominant personality. The Alicia we see is way more introverted than act 3 Maelle. What Maelle gains is more Alicia's powers and knowledge than her personality. Even her motivations are still mostly Maelle's.

Maelle should've been the main character after Act 1

kevwaffles posted...

Because from her perspective it's probably only like a couple of weeks.

Right, sociopathic. If a sibling was about to undergo a traumatic subjective lifetime with a corresponding memory wipe I think I'd be a bit more concerned!

OrangeCrush980 posted...

Maelle should've been the main character after Act 1

I mean she was getting as much focus as Verso. Hell, from the point you get her back in Act 1 she's clearly more central to the plot than Gustave or the rest.

banananor posted...

Right, sociopathic. If a sibling was about to undergo a traumatic subjective lifetime with a corresponding memory wipe I think I'd be a bit more concerned!

Tbf at that point I think there's nothing Clea could have done anyway. Not to say she isn't worse than that in every other context we see her, though. Or that I disagree even with you period. Just considering the context.

Honestly, I loved Verso as protagonist. He's awesome in act 2. The parts where he doesn't reveal stuff are silly, but I never erally minded.

Verso is always entertaining! I just don't buy the dynamics of the party in Act 2, like banananor said.

I think it's funny that there's a bunch of endgame sidequests giving depth to Clea, but almost all of them just make her come off worse. Flying Manor, Renoir's Drafts, and Esquie's personal quest all heighten her callousness, only the Endless Tower has her give two lines of kindness to her sister. This isn't a criticism, I like that they have her be such a blatant bastard.

Verso is always entertaining!

Same, I did warm up to verso as I was allowed to learn more about him
kevwaffles posted...

Tbf at that point I think there's nothing Clea could have done anyway.

That did seem possible. Painter magic is left so open ended that it's hard to say for sure
andylt posted...

This isn't a criticism, I like that they have her be such a blatant bastard.

Same, strongly defined characters are so great