Current Events > What's worse; a game that is Too Easy or Too Hard?

(+) Yeah! (+)

A game that is too hard, at least with an easy game I can enjoy the story

Dungeater posted...

idk, i feel i beat a couple games that were too hard simply by virtue of throwing so many lives at the meat grinder i eventually forced thru

Oh, that wasn't in response to you. I thought I quoted Monk, but either I forgot or the quote didn't go through. I get your answer.

PissedOffMonk posted...

A game that's too easy is worse for me. Beating a difficult boss or stage feels more rewarding than just finishing a game that I steamrolled through.

Limelol posted...

How is a game too hard if you're beating it and enjoying the experience?

If you are still enjoying it then it isn't "too hard."

Superman 64

Too easy? Or too hard?

A game that is too easy might have other things about it that are enjoyable.

A game that is too hard you'll never get to those other things.

ellis123 posted...

If you are still enjoying it then it isn't "too hard."

I don't think this is totally true, you can enjoy something you have no chance of ever beating

almost always too easy, especially when it's an rpg or strategy game

i can't care about most rpg combat when they're easy or mindless

A game that is too easy can be saved by other aspects. Some of the most celebrated games of all time are piss easy, but have great story or excellent gameplay or an addicting multiplayer or some other aspect that makes up for it.

A game that is too hard most likely won't let you experience any of the things that might mitigate the difficulty spike. You can have a game that is appealing *because* of its high skill requirements (Soulsikes basically built a genre on it, and probably my favourite racer of all time is F-Zero GX, which is notoriously unforgiving in its difficulty), but that takes a lot of developmental skill and far more likely is you'll just wind up with a frustrating game that no one wants to play.

You can get good enough to beat a game that's too hard. You can't get shit enough to get appropriate difficulty out of a game that's too easy.

However, it depends a lot on the intended experience. The core loop of Souls games ultimately is to overcome challenges, so with no challenge that loop falls apart. That's very different to the intended experience of the Persona games, which despite being pretty easy worm their way into being some of my favourite games. This is different yet again to something like Satisfactory, where the "challenge" isn't in doing something, but doing it efficiently as possible.

reincarnator07 posted...

You can get good enough to beat a game that's too hard.

Ehhhhh

I feel like there's a lot of games that you can't really get good enough to beat. Not saying that it's literally impossible but there's definitely a skill cap in some games that are just going to be beyond most people.

Like, probably only a small handful of people will ever beat Inbachi in DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou without cheating.

I'd rather stop playing a game because it was too hard than because the experience was mind-numbingly easy.

Clair Obscur's only flaw is that I loved the combat system but it didn't seem to love me back enough to challenge me. I really would have liked it more if it made it so hard that I had to dedicate time to master it.

Depends entirely on the game and what I want to get out of it.

In my experience "Hard" often just means a slog.

"if we make bullet sponge enemies who kill you in 2 hits so every ecnounter takes 10-20 minutes, it's makes the game harder!"

More just boring and less fun. A lot of the time it just feels like you're taking advantage of bad AI.

MagiMarthKoopa posted...

Too easy is boring

"Too hard" just means you need to get better at the game

I guess we have to define or give examples of too easy and too hard. I agree that too easy can make games boring, but too hard also has the drawback of losing most of the (casual) audience by discouraging them. You can make games easy enough, yet still entertaining and having replay value.

A game I would consider that elold hard for casuals, would be F-Zero GX. On GC NSO especially with the increased lag input and controller sensitivity. I would say what's particularly really hard is unlocking all the AX characters in story mode on very hard mode. I thought that was really dumb. Normal is challenging enough, and hard is nuts.

But yeah, both extremes suck.

Arcanine2009 posted...

I guess we have to define or give examples of too easy and too hard. I agree that too easy can make games boring, but too hard also has the drawback of losing most of the (casual) audience by discouraging them.

but is the topic even about sales though? cuz when I voted it was from the perspective of what I like. I don't really care about how much a game sells, so whether it draws in a more casual audience isn't relevant to me.

Limelol posted...

Oh, that wasn't in response to you. I thought I quoted Monk, but either I forgot or the quote didn't go through. I get your answer.

My answer was probably going to be in the same spirit as Dungeaters response. Constantly retrying and be able to see your progression as you figure out the challenge is part of the fun.

Too difficult. At least an easy game is playable.

Too hard, obviously.

Ill gladly take a nice relaxing experience over something so stressfully difficult any day (life is stressful enough without something thats supposed to be a fun hobby adding to that).

Too easy. I inevitably power trip, look up shit online and do things in (what I think is) an optimised way regardless of the difficulty.

Due to this, games that are easy to begin with I steamroll, games that are hard I eventually overcome despite not being very skilled.

It only really applies to games without difficulty options, usually there's an appropriate difficulty inside a range of options.

Too hard. I play games that are easy, but fun. A game being too hard is just frustrating.

PissedOffMonk posted...

A game that's too easy is worse for me. Beating a difficult boss or stage feels more rewarding than just finishing a game that I steamrolled through.

See, you're assuming you actually beat that boss. Hence

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

Nobody who voted that too easy is worse has ever actually played a game that's too hard.

I'm gonna say too hard on the assumption that means I wouldn't be able to complete it. Like someone else said, too easy at least means you can beat the game.

kirbymuncher posted...

I don't think this is totally true, you can enjoy something you have no chance of ever beating

Rage quitting isn't fun though.

Too hard. If a game is too easy the player can do things to make it harder, but the reverse isn't true.

kirbymuncher posted...

I don't think this is totally true, you can enjoy something you have no chance of ever beating

If you are still having fun then it is merely just hard. It becomes "too hard" once you no longer have the ability to have fun. The fact that you eventually will get walled in a hard game, thus turning it from "hard" to "too hard", doesn't really change that fact. The entire transition hinges upon the point at which you go "yeah, this ain't happening" and no longer finding the grind enjoyable. Assuming the thing is beatable at all.

For most genres, A game that is too easy is worst to me. I have felt better satisfaction grinding it out on a tough as hell boss or challenge, beating that boss or challenge, and never finishing the game versus just spamming some buttons and winning to the credits in a different game.

The big exception to this rule is turn based RPGs. I would say them being too hard is worst. One, this prevents you from getting through the story. Two, too hard in these games is usually paired with the need to excessively grind and hope an enemy does not use a broken attack against you.

Too hard is worse. I'm not at all bothered by a game that's easy. Like, Kingdom Hearts 3's combat was fun as hell, despite being easy

Too hard is worse.

I don't need difficulty in my games to enjoy them. Life is difficult enough already.

A game that is too hard will quickly make me stop playing it. I don't have time for that shit anymore.

I think too hard is worse, if they really make a botch up of the difficulty. Not every hard game is hard because the gameplay has been well crafted to be a test of what you've learned so far.

Sometimes a game is hard because it's got a lot of jank, sometimes a game is hard because the developers got all Mario Maker mode on you and dropped three Bowsers on your ass and didn't give you a power up to deal with them.

Sometimes developers just don't know what the fuck they're doing with their game and it shows in the later stages when they need to up the ante for the gamer but used up their better ideas in the earlier levels of the games.

A game that's too easy can at least serve as a pallet cleanser once in a while.

Hard games are better than easy games

However, you added the word "too" so "too hard" is worse

-Crissaegrim- posted...

sometimes a game is hard because the developers got all Mario Maker mode on you and dropped three Bowsers on your ass and didn't give you a power up to deal with them.

I have seen this done effectively before, though.

I was thinking of two examples, and I just realized they're both Platinum 7th Gen games, lol. Anyway.

In Vanquish, you fight a relatively tough enemy about halfway through the game, and manage to chase it off instead of actually winning. Then the final boss is actually two of it, and you have to win.

Then in Metal Gear Rising, on Revengeance difficulty, they made one of the bosses harder by giving it a second one of itself as a minion. Technically, the minion is a different model that a lot easier, but still it was a fun alternative to just giving it better stats, lol. Though they did that too, of course.

ellis123 posted...

If you are still having fun then it is merely just hard. It becomes "too hard" once you no longer have the ability to have fun.

I guess it depends how you're mentally completing the "too hard to..." which was clearly left unfinished here so people can pick their own interpretations. I'm not sure I can really convey this properly with an explanation so I'll use a sorta forced example here. Let's say there's a tetris game where you need to clear 40 lines to win.

Too hard to beat
Let's say you win the game by clearing all 40 lines in 20 seconds. This is extremely fast, as far as I can tell there are like double-digit number of people in the world who have done this. If I played it, I would go in from the start knowing I essentially never have a chance, it's too hard for me, yet I could still have a lot of fun even in this "hopeless" state because I just enjoy tetris

Too hard to play
Okay, remove the time limit, but instead it's one of those tetris grandmaster modes where the pieces drop instantly and are invisible after landing. Again, some people out there could beat this, but I would go in knowing it's impossible for me. Except this time, the difficulty exists in a way that interferes with the gameplay experience itself to the point where I can barely even functionally play it, so I probably wouldn't have too much fun here.

And then on the flip side I guess you have
Too easy to beat
40 lines in 20 minutes instead of 20 seconds. You'll win effortlessly every time but game is still fun because the action of playing is enjoyable

Too easy to play
40 lines where every piece is just the straight line piece. Again, effortlessly easy but this time the difficulty comes at the cost of any complexity or decision-making in the game

Depends on the game I'm playing

kirbymuncher posted...

40 lines where every piece is just the straight line piece.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/da520053.jpg

I'm more likely to quit games that are too hard since I don't have time for that these days. Too easy might get boring but at least it makes me feel like I'm not wasting my time on something that frustrates me.

"Too hard" to me implies that I was unable to beat the game despite putting in at least a fair amount of effort before giving up. In the few instances I can think of that being the case - Mega Man X, Cuphead, and Metroid Dread spring to mind - the fact that I couldn't beat it always overshadows whatever other positive feelings I had for the game. And of course that's only gotten worse in the internet era, when admitting this practically inundates you with "omg you actually think that game is too hard lololol!"

So yeah, even though I'm come around to appreciating a meaty gaming challenge later in life, "too hard" is still ultimately worse than "too easy."

ellis123 posted...

If you are still having fun then it is merely just hard. It becomes "too hard" once you no longer have the ability to have fun.

Yeah, that's how I view it. I typically prefer a game be hard over easy, but too hard ends up being a detriment. The enjoyment gets ruined and there's no way to fix it.

Taking a game that is too easy and making it harder through personal challenges has damn near infinite applications.
Taking a game that is too hard and making it even harder would serve no purpose.
Taking a game that is too hard and making it easier is far more limiting than the opposite because you would usually have to resort to cheating, as any in-game method would mean that the game is not too hard.

Limelol posted...

Yeah, that's how I view it. I typically prefer a game be hard over easy, but too hard ends up being a detriment. The enjoyment gets ruined and there's no way to fix it.

Taking a game that is too easy and making it harder through personal challenges has damn near infinite applications.
Taking a game that is too hard and making it even harder would serve no purpose.
Taking a game that is too hard and making it easier is far more limiting than the opposite because you would usually have to resort to cheating, as any in-game method would mean that the game is not too hard.

If we are arguing the extremes, I would think a game is too easy would have no way of making it harder. I am talking about a game being too easy to the point that all you have to do is hit a button when the game requires it. How do you make that harder? You can't, the game has you do the easiest of inputs to win. You cannot lose as the game just waits for you.

That is where that argument is going if you do both extremes like the other person is trying to start with the "too" hard logic.

eaglei3 posted...

If we are arguing the extremes, I would think a game is too easy would have no way of making it harder.

Like what? I said it earlier, but when I was trying to think of something like that, I couldn't.

Speedruns, the most popular type of personal challenge, can be applied to almost anything. Even Journey, one of the easiest fun experiences released, had a competitive speedrun community.

There are numerous games having difficulty elements that go into the range of impossible, and countless games if you include player established limitations.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

See, you're assuming you actually beat that boss. Hence
Nobody who voted that too easy is worse has ever actually played a game that's too hard.

I don't have to assume I beat the boss if I bring their HP down to zero. Something can start off as too hard can eventually become manageable. Difficulty is subjective, but you seem like you want to argue for the sake of arguing.

The issue is that there is no definition for too easy or too hard. People choosing to hard see the definition as the game gets to a point that it is unbeatable, no matter what. While those choosing to easy see the too hard definition as you can beat it with enough time and practice.

MNThunder posted...

The issue is that there is no definition for too easy or too hard. People choosing to hard see the definition as the game gets to a point that it is unbeatable, no matter what. While those choosing to easy see the too hard definition as you can beat it with enough time and practice.

It doesn't matter that there's no definition since this is all about personal opinions. Something that is too hard for you might not be too hard for another person but you can each evaluate whether you'd prefer a too hard or too easy game relative to your own skill level.

If a game is too easy I simply lose interest and drop it. Part of why I hate the Mario & Luigi series, nothing but endless tutorials

eaglei3 posted...

If we are arguing the extremes, I would think a game is too easy would have no way of making it harder. I am talking about a game being too easy to the point that all you have to do is hit a button when the game requires it. How do you make that harder? You can't, the game has you do the easiest of inputs to win. You cannot lose as the game just waits for you.

That is where that argument is going if you do both extremes like the other person is trying to start with the "too" hard logic.

That is the visual novel genre.

Unsurprisingly, it is a genre that has no troubles sticking around because the logical extreme of "too easy" isn't actually a meaningful label in the same way that "too hard" is.