Current Events > do you think "git gud" is useless smuggery, or genuine advice

(+) Yeah! (+)

depends on context

there are many games where the simplest answer is, indeed, just "git gud"

funnily enough Dark Souls itself is not one of them because the series showers you in tools to destroy roadblocks (unless "Get Gud" means "Actually use your tools instead of trying to punch the boss with a gimped build")

Jerk way of saying learn from these mistakes

Morrigan keeps spamming Soul Fist
Damn, that sucks.

K.Rule keeps spamming throw into fsmash.
Git gud

I dunno, I've seen people complain on Gamefaqs about things I've watched uncoordinated 5 year olds manage. At some point you just need to take the personal responsibility to learn the controls and manage expectations vs reactions. I play a lot of Pokemon and people will whine to hell and back that they can't throw their team of 6 Eevees into a Skarm Bliss and come out on top, but refuse to fix their issues.
The resources are usually right there. If someone is complaining about something real, usually they'll get real advice. It's when they're whining about something they can control, or just whining in general, that they'll get the same level of snark back.

but why snark at people "whining", i dont get it

ChocoboMogALT posted...

K.Rule keeps spamming throw into fsmash.
Git gud

there's absolutely valid arguments for characters not having kill confirms off a grab, reminds me of the ice climbers wobbling crap from melee. "just don't get grabbed" no, saying shit like that is just snuffing out valid balance complaints

viewmaster_pi posted...

you're starting to get into problems with how people treat each other online in general. who cares about being nice or patient or reasonable when i can be a quippy funny troll for updoots?

yea

Dungeater posted...

but why snark at people "whining", i dont get it

Because those same people who are whining will take silence as validation. "Looks like nobody can defend this. Do they agree with me?"

Not everyone wants to enable such behavior. Telling them git gud shuts down the validation and is only 6 letters and a space.

Yes, going into detail is always more helpful even if it's as simple as "just practice the basics more", but when they get done venting, they'll usually wise up and realize that they were in the wrong regardless. If nobody says anything at all and they delude themselves further into thinking they're right because "nobody can counter me", then there's nothing to reflect on.

Dungeater posted...

but why snark at people "whining", i dont get it

That one is usually more like the worker who gets upset at having to answer the same question again.

Familiarity breeds contempt, that sort of thing.

But in that case, there's not really another avenue to answer the question, it's the worker's job.

In the forum case, there's at least usually a search function, which means nerds get to combine "stfu" and "rtfm" and that's basically a double rainbow for them.

Limelol posted...

Because those same people who are whining will take silence as validation. "Looks like nobody can defend this. Do they agree with me?"

but *who cares*, right? theyll beat the part and think "man i was frustrated, i didnt like that but it's over" or "man i actually did it, nice"

and theyll move on. are you telling me you actually care if someone takes a non snarkass remark @ their venting and thinks its validating?

viewmaster_pi posted...

there's absolutely valid arguments for characters not having kill confirms off a grab, reminds me of the ice climbers wobbling crap from melee. "just don't get grabbed" no, saying shit like that is just snuffing out valid balance complaints

Potempkin or Honda kill you off a grab, why'd you get grabbed?
K.Rule gets one stock off a mid-% opponent, everybody freaks out. And once again the heavies lose anything fun and remain bottom tier.
It's not like other characters lack kill confirms off grabs, either, it's mostly the ease and how lame it looks that keeps these down. Hell, Icies lost wobbles and still kill off grabs - it's not the kill confirms that's the issue.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying 'git gud' is an appropriate response to wobbles, that would be a meme. But K.Rule grabbing you at 50%, or getting Falcon Punched, yeah. There's degrees.

ChocoboMogALT posted...

It's not like other characters lack kill confirms off grabs, either, it's mostly the ease and how lame it looks that keeps these down. Hell, Icies lost wobbles and still kill off grabs - it's not the kill confirms that's the issue.

I know what all of these words mean individually, but put them in this order and it may as well be Aramaic.

Dungeater posted...

but *who cares*, right?

It has continued effects.

Dungeater posted...

theyll beat the part and think "man i was frustrated, i didnt like that but it's over" or "man i actually did it, nice"

If it typically ended there, I would agree with you.

That's not what happens, though. They rarely move on. They constantly tell us and argue with us that the boss is poorly designed. There are arguments for poorly designed bosses/mechanics, but they won't be using that. They'll just use generic terms like "artificial difficulty" or "bullshit design" and parade around that everyone else is wrong.

Dungeater posted...

are you telling me you actually care if someone takes a non snarkass remark @ their venting and thinks its validating?

I've been in positions in the past myself where I've done something in a game I'm still learning, questioned how the fuck the devs expect people to be able to do that, look it up to see if anyone has complained about it, then after seeing a wall of "skill issue", I come to the realization that "okay, it's not bugged nor is it an unrealistic expectation, I must be doing something wrong on a basic level".

ChocoboMogALT posted...

But K.Rule grabbing you at 50%, or getting Falcon Punched, yeah.

i didn't say anything about falcon punch, you almost have to try to be hit by it for fun, but gonna disagree heartily on buries and leave it at that, because poor Dungeater doesn't deserve to have his thread derailed

DrizztLink posted...

I know what all of these words mean individually, but put them in this order and it may as well be Aramaic.

lmao yea

viewmaster_pi posted...

i didn't say anything about falcon punch, you almost have to try to be hit by it for fun, but gonna disagree heartily on buries and leave it at that, because poor Dungeater doesn't deserve to have his thread derailed

dw bout it, your discussion is an organic branch, its welcome

DrizztLink posted...

I know what all of these words mean individually, but put them in this order and it may as well be Aramaic.

This is wobbling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4l8e32uUxA
IMO, how you feel about wobbling is kinda like the normal distribution meme. Someone who doesn't play Melee looks at it and it looks terrible, it's an infinite combo! You play Melee a bit, it's not that bad - you can swat Nana away to stop it, other characters have zero to death grab combos, and Icies have other zero to deaths besides wobbling. You get better and better and realize it adds too much variance - you can't reliably avoid that early percent grab against better Icies players, they start learning the handoffs to make it more reliable at 0% (seen in the video: Popo grabs and throws, Nana grabs off Popo's throw, Popo re-grabs off Nana's throw), you can't alter your DI to try to escape in anyway, etc.
Wobbling's legality varied tournament to tournament early on until EVO 2013 where it was unbanned and the player for whom it was named after, Wobbles, came second with a crazy run. After that it was actually unbanned in most tournaments until 2018/19 when the ban became the standard.

I know this is a copout answer, but it depends on the context. I'm not in deep with the soulsborne community, but I'll trust your judgment on that, tc.

I am much more involved with the fgc, and on that front, so many newbies ask questions where the answer really, genuinely is just "do more". Practice more, play more, read more. Git gud. There's no trickety trick around the fundamentals; shortcuts and situational advice only apply when you can execute without needing to think about it.

Evening_Dragon posted...

I know this is a copout answer, but it depends on the context. I'm not in deep with the soulsborne community, but I'll trust your judgment on that, tc.

I am much more involved with the fgc, and on that front, so many newbies ask questions where the answer really, genuinely is just "do more". Practice more, play more, read more. Git gud. There's no trickety trick around the fundamentals; shortcuts and situational advice only apply when you can execute without needing to think about it.

i just dont understand how so many can consider "be better at the game" advice

thats a goal, not an advice

Because sometimes that's all there is to it.

Recently, someone made a thread in Silksong about the Last Judge fight. They were already using the Magma Bell and could get to the final phase, but were asking for help. All they had to do was play less sloppy.

Telling them to get better or to play less sloppy is telling them that they're good to go, it's just an execution problem.

i don't think i'll get to the point where i see how. it's the same as saying "just lose weight" to someone struggling with weight loss, in my mind. i dont think im capable of hearing it differently. telling someone their end goal in a derisive matter doesnt connote any of the ..."helpful" baggage youre saying it does, imo

but thank you for trying to explain

Dungeater posted...

i dont think im capable of hearing it differently.

git capuble

Dungeater posted...

i just dont understand how so many can consider "be better at the game" advice

thats a goal, not an advice

It's a bit pedantic, but be better, get better, they have some overlap. At the basic level of "need advice on how to do <simple move>", "literally do more until you get it right" is the only real possible advice, and that's easily shrunken down to "git gud"

uh...huh

Dungeater posted...

it's the same as saying "just lose weight" to someone struggling with weight loss, in my mind.

It's not. If someone is struggling with weight loss, it's because they don't know how to lose weight. In this situation, it doesn't help because they don't even understand the basics. They can't lose weight until they are told how.

Let's take ER as an example, which should work based off your username.

If someone is struggling to understand iframes, yeah, saying git gud doesn't help at all.
If someone is struggling with how to find openings in general, same.

But if someone understands the basics (iframes, when to attack, how to scale damage), then they are already capable of beating every single boss in the game. The only thing that prevents them from doing so, is impatience or misreading attacks. Both of those things you become better at in time. Nobody needs to tell you "don't be impatient" or "read the attack better". You would already know that. The only thing left is to practice.

The more you practice, the more familiar you become with the attacks. The more you practice, the more patient you'll be.

I think the disconnect is that you might be thinking of someone using the response to someone who has no idea how to play, rather than someone who does, but is making mistakes and blaming the game.

Limelol posted...

I think the disconnect is that you might be thinking of someone using the response to someone who has no idea how to play, rather than someone who does, but is making mistakes and blaming the game.

no, i'm thinking of it in pretty much any context (outside of friends riffing)

including "this boss is impossible bullshit!". anything, really

Dungeater posted...

i just dont understand how so many can consider "be better at the game" advice

thats a goal, not an advice

I'm getting into Marvel Rivals as someone who generally hates FPSs. I've learned the combos, positioning, when to engage and run away. I can still improve on those things, but my awful aim still holds me back. The only way to improve is to practice and put more hours into the game.
'git gud' is usually not advice, it's usually a flippant response to a whiny topic. But also, yeah, some people just need to get better at games. Even if you understand a boss' pattern, learn all his tells, you might not win if you don't build the reaction time and muscle memory to perform what's necessary. How do you get better a Kaizo Mario, Super Meat Boy, Celeste, etc.? Generally you know what to do, some games will TELL YOU the finger movements needed to succeed, you just have to do them. How do you learn combos in fighting games?

ChocoboMogALT posted...

How do you get better a Kaizo Mario, Super Meat Boy, Celeste, etc

to that person i would say keep playing and practicing, not "git gud" bc imo "git gud" has only a negative connotation and does not connote the above

ChocoboMogALT posted...

How do you learn combos in fighting games?

i dont, i buy one every 10 years for story and just button mash. it's too much for me to remember, let alone to remember and execute

Hey guys
I'm trying to beat Pokemon Emerald's Battle Factory
I've analyzed all of the mechanics and I've memorized all the strategies and I have an entire spreadsheet of all possible scenarios
But I'm still losing
Any advice?

:)

ChocoboMogALT posted...

How do you get better a Kaizo Mario, Super Meat Boy, Celeste, etc.?

Well, for each of those games, you might fundamentally be misunderstanding the exact order of movements for a particular stage, or doing some input timing wrong. Like, for Kaizo Mario, you really need to understand how to use regrabs to change the speed of your fall.
There's even mods covering expansive tutorials that you can check out for both Kaizo Mario and kaizo Celeste. (Wait, can Celeste mods be called 'kaizo'? Eh, well, basically.)

Also, further advice for 'kaizo' Celeste: There's a mod that let's you create save states, so you can practice a long room and then back out and do it in full. (edit: Or slow it down!) Probably unnecessary and too much work for the base game, that's mostly just practice. But very good if you're already playing difficult mods of it.

After a point though... It does just become...
git gud
And if you're at that point then it's probably just funny to hear depending on context lol.

"Why not both?"

If the jalapeno pizza is too spicy I encourage you to try the pep and mushroom instead, there's no need to mess with my favorite pizza flavor.

huh? i think youre talking about a different thing

The term itself is pretty damn condescending, but the concept behind it... A lot of the time, that's the only way through.

Dungeater posted...

I still don't get it. let someone be frustrated without poking their buttons, offer help if they want or need it

what's so hard about that. everyones gotten frustrated at a game before

Just because you get frustrated at a game doesn't entitle you to go on a message board and talk shit about it to people who are enjoying the game and want to have more meaningful discussions. It's very rude and it should not be surprising if people are rude in response.

how is venting about a product being rude to people, its a message board not a chat room

like i am just genuinely not getting it man. i have no issue if someone is complaining about a thing i like

Dungeater posted...

how is venting about a product being rude to people, its a message board not a chat room

like i am just genuinely not getting it man. i have no issue if someone is complaining about a thing i like

Again, I gave a very specific example of an instance something I feel is rude. I did not say people aren't allowed to vent.

i dont follow

Dungeater posted...

how is venting about a product being rude to people, its a message board not a chat room

like i am just genuinely not getting it man. i have no issue if someone is complaining about a thing i like

Some of the whiners are really annoying. Git gud is like a quick way to tell them to fuck off and deal with it.

BiggCoolDaddy posted...

Git gud is like a quick way to tell them to fuck off and deal with it

so the first option?

I think "git gud" is funny as a troll comment, but yeah it's not helpful.

Dungeater posted...

so the first option?

Basically yes. Git gud doesnt really offer anything imo. Does it offend me, no.

621 posted...

I think "git gud" is funny as a troll comment, but yeah it's not helpful.

i think its funny when like, someone posts a bug or something. like when it's a completely unambiguous non-sequitur

It's NEVER genuine advice. Ever.

I love how with the people defending it, half of them are saying "It's justified when the person is being a douchebag." Okay, maybe sometimes it is, but it's still not exactly genuine advice, is it? It's just you being a dick because they deserve it.

And the other half is "Well sometimes it's another way of saying (constructive advice)." If you actually want to help someone, you should say the constructive thing. "Yeah, that boss is just really hard for everyone, the only thing you can really do is keep trying until you get good enough to beat it." This is genuine advice. "Get gud" is not.

action52 posted...

"Yeah, that boss is just really hard for everyone, the only thing you can really do is keep trying until you get good enough to beat it." This is genuine advice. "Get gud" is not.

Those things mean the same thing in the context of the question. I get not realizing that if you're totally new to a given community, but anyone who sticks around in the fgc, and presumably other competitive gaming spaces, will "get it" and inevitably bring it into their own lexicon, and it is used in that context even with veterans asking each other for advice.

Like you don't have to take my word for it, straight up join SF4 Revival or w/e fighting game discord and search "git gud".

Useless.

Almost exclusively useless smuggery.

You can make it not with actual advice inserted afterwards but that's really fucking rare.

For instance, I've unironically used the phrase I think all of one time and it was with somebody having trouble in kcd2. They were upset that a group of 3 guys was wrecking or even just one guy who's armoured up while he was super early in the game.

I told him something along the lines of there's an element of "git gud" at play here. I then went on to give him general advice about how weak you start off and to not treat the game like it's Skyrim or something.

Basically if you're going to use it in a non-smug asshole way you need to elaborate and not use it in a demeaning manner.

I don't think it's really a cut and dry thing. It really depends on the game, what the "reward" for getting gud is, and what the barrier for being "gud" was in the first place.

To add to that, I think it's more about the way you encourage a player to take the game on that could turn it smug or constructive.

Unironic shit like "skill issue" or "git gud" is definitely pretty smug, especially if that's more or less all that's said. But like something like "If you're struggling with this, you could probably do with spending a little time getting the jump tech down, that whole section of the game revolves around that mechanic so getting the feel for that will make it much more manageable"- You're still encouraging the player to get better, and you're giving them a little advice on what'll help them handle the game, but you're not making it a "skill issue" thing, just explaining the skill that'll help unlock what they can do when they spend a little time getting more comfortable in the game.

"git gud" isn't advice it's just stating the obvious in a very smug way. "git gud" is just a meme.

Both

its just falling into a toxic mindset when ever people say it

if some one joined a school basket ball team and they where struggling so they asked the star player for help with playing

and the star player just laughed at them and said "git gud"

most people on this board would call that star player a jack ass

but the moment you turn this into a video game thing suddenly its cool and justified

what im saying is people who say git gud are just acting like stereotypical jocks

On its own, at best it's a solid mindset to have. There's defo been times where I've been stuck because I simply was playing badly. I knew what I needed to do, I just wasn't doing it. At worst, it's vague and dismissive and therefore very unhelpful.

As a summary of advice given, it's far more helpful. Sometimes when you're stuck in a game, it's because you're doing something wrong. Those people need specific advice like "Go level up a bit more", "Do this to avoid that attack" or "Complete this quest to nerf the boss". Other times though, some people really do just need to do what they already know better. It really is just a skill issue and the only useful advice is for them to git gud. For example, there's a lot of tricks to help with Malenia in Elden Ring, but you still need a certain amount of skill even with all of those.

Not gonna pretend it's not a useless meme the majority of the time though.

AceMos posted...

if some one joined a school basket ball team and they where struggling so they asked the star player for help with playing [...] but the moment you turn this into a video game thing suddenly its cool and justified

In my experience, when people ask for help earnestly, they get it earnestly. The advice might not be a neat trick that lets you plow through that nasty boss on your next try, but it will be more substantial than "git gud." When people are just complaining and show no indication that they want to put in the effort that the game expects, that's when you get the snarky dismissal from players who have done that.

The basketball analogy to that would be complaining that winning games is too hard, that you don't have time for practice, that the varsity team is gatekeeping, etc.

The_cranky_hermit posted...

In my experience, when people ask for help earnestly, they get it earnestly. When people are just complaining and show no indication that they want to put in the effort that the game expects, that's when you get the snarky dismissal.

The basketball analogy to that would be complaining that winning games is too hard, that you don't have time for practice, that the varsity team is gatekeeping, etc.

this is a flat out lie souls fans will mock anyone who asks for any kind of help

source my own personal fucking experience just asking if i was missing something in a souls like

multiple people share this experience

for YEARS people where allowed to just vent about hating a boss in a game

it was not until souls likes became popular suddenly people where not allowed to do that

and asking for any kind of help became a bad thing

hell souls like fans will even bitch if you do beat a hard boss but you used a strategy they view as "cheap"