Current Events > do you think "git gud" is useless smuggery, or genuine advice

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dungeater posted...

but why snark at people "whining", i dont get it

Why whine to a person you cant beat and start calling them names because you cant beat them?
Or whine to a person about a strategy you dont find annoying or difficult to go against?
Or whine about devs having a mechanic you have a difficult time fighting against?

Why think the world needs to bend over backwards to accommodate people like that's feelings.... as if the whiners feelings only matter?

You complain of smugness, but here trying to frame the specific type of people who demand others accommodate them arent being smug.

It can be genuine advice, and also overused to the point of smuggery. When I'm playing a hard game, there definitely are times when you know what you have to do and how, and all you can do is just, git gud at executing it. In any skill, tips and tricks can be incredibly helpful, but sooner or later you're just going to have to practice practice practice.

In the common example of Soulslikes, the games aren't that complicated or that hard, and the most important skill is perseverance.

AceMos posted...

this is a flat out lie souls fans will mock anyone who asks for any kind of help

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1okemt4
Oh, look. Someone asked for advice in earnest yesterday, and there's not a single mocking or disparaging remark before we hit "view more comments!" There are a few useless shitposts, but they're vastly outnumbered by actual advice, and "git gud" isn't anywhere to be seen.

The_cranky_hermit posted...

and "git gud" isn't anywhere to be seen.

Ctrl+F finds at least 18

It's valid advice sometimes, massively overused most of the time.

There have been a few occasions I've legitimately seen someone complaining about something and thought "that's a legit skill issue, get gud" (never posted it though, I won't usually be a jackarse intentionally unless someone else casts the stone first), not very often though.

I don't think it fits either option. I only ever see it used when people come in, bitching about the game, and refuse to learn how to play it. They don't want genuine advice, they want the game to adapt to their preferred playstyle instead of learning how to play it.

Having a stamina bar sucks. It should be like DMC and allow me to attack non-stop. - Git Gud
vs.
I'm keep running out of stamina. What should I do? - Use X items to regen faster. Don't fully empty the bar. Drop your shield to get it back faster.

I find that if you actually ask Souls fans for tips and advice, they will give it to you and help the most they can.

If you go in and cry that a boss is too hard and demand nerfs, then people are going to just say 'git gud' to annoy you.

Trelve posted...

I find that if you actually ask Souls fans for tips and advice, they will give it to you and help the most they can.

If you go in and cry that a boss is too hard and demand nerfs, then people are going to just say 'git gud' to annoy you.

This, really. Though there's always the one guy that missed that memo.

Trelve posted...

I find that if you actually ask Souls fans for tips and advice, they will give it to you and help the most they can.

If you go in and cry that a boss is too hard and demand nerfs, then people are going to just say 'git gud' to annoy you.

Right, it tends to be how you approach asking for advice.

As for the thread - its exhausting to be patient with complainers. If its just one in a vacuum, yeah its probably fine. But if its multiple people, every day, complaining about the same thing you like, youre probably gonna get dismissive with them. And if its a repeat offender who behaves poorly on multiple occasions, sympathy just flies out the window. Not saying its a good mindset to have, but it is a defense mechanism to toxic behavior. Obviously it also feeds into some form of toxic positivity, but thats preferable to some.

MagiMarthKoopa posted...

Ctrl+F finds at least 18

Why do you tell such easily disproven lies?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/28c805a5.jpg

The_cranky_hermit posted...

Why do you tell such easily disproven lies?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/28c805a5.jpg

I'm on old Reddit and I see 9, but they're lower in the thread with 1 or 2 upvotes at most. Not sure where 18 came from on his end.

The_cranky_hermit posted...

Why do you tell such easily disproven lies?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/28c805a5.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c57c6237.jpg

So you didn't just "Ctrl+F." You had to click "View more comments" repeatedly until you had them all loaded, and even then you didn't even see your first "git gud" until you got down to two upvotes.

I said there is not a single mocking or disparaging remark before we hit "view more comments." You either missed that part or you left it out on purpose. And even when you load them all, that's 19 "git guds" in a thread with over 1,000 comments. You didn't contradict my point; you verified it.

The_cranky_hermit posted...

I said there is not a single mocking or disparaging remark before we hit "view more comments." You either missed that part or you left it out on purpose.

"and "git gud" isn't anywhere to be seen" separates it from that statement and includes the entirety of the thread

No it doesn't. The preceding statement provides context for understanding the second. So does having a modicum of common sense.

The_cranky_hermit posted...

No it doesn't. The preceding statement provides context for understanding the second. So does having a modicum of common sense.

I'm just explaining how I interpreted it

Not interested in semantic arguments

How is this even a question, lol.

Hey guys, somebody just told me to go fuck myself. I wondering if it was an earnest suggestion.

Git gud is generally useless smuggery, but I generally only see it thrust at people who are asking for help with a shitty attitude.

AceMos posted...

this is a flat out lie souls fans will mock anyone who asks for any kind of help

source my own personal fucking experience just asking if i was missing something in a souls like

multiple people share this experience

for YEARS people where allowed to just vent about hating a boss in a game

it was not until souls likes became popular suddenly people where not allowed to do that

and asking for any kind of help became a bad thing

hell souls like fans will even bitch if you do beat a hard boss but you used a strategy they view as "cheap"

I don't know, that's just not been my experience with Elden Ring at least, I've asked for a lot of help with it and I never got hit with git gud.

There's a difference between "I'm struggling with this boss, could you please offer me some tips, guys?" and "zomg this boss is broken"

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

I don't know, that's just not been my experience with Elden Ring at least, I've asked for a lot of help with it and I never got hit with git gud.

There's a difference between "I'm struggling with this boss, could you please offer me some tips, guys?" and "zomg this boss is broken"

There's also a difference between "you're right, it's really hard and can be frustrating, so here are some tips" and "I did it, I dunno what the hell's wrong with you."

Both parties have the choice, and it's better for one to make it right than neither.

The_cranky_hermit posted...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1okemt4
Oh, look. Someone asked for advice in earnest yesterday, and there's not a single mocking or disparaging remark before we hit "view more comments!" There are a few useless shitposts, but they're vastly outnumbered by actual advice, and "git gud" isn't anywhere to be seen.

Yeah, that's how most replies go in the Souls community. Occasionally, you'll see a shitpost "git gud", but it's mostly just genuine advice. The only times someone gets piled on with it is if they're being obnoxious. It's a whole, "Oh, you want to be annoying, we're going to be annoying too while being on the side that's right".

As for the matter of scrubs who try to gatekeep playstyles/weapons, that's more common, but it's still somewhat uncommon for the people in the community to throw it around. You'll notice it mostly from people who played, or are claiming to have played the game(s), who view beating a Souls game as an important achievement. Funnily enough, that's a rare mentality in the community because after a few runs, even if you originally thought that, you realize how out of touch it is, and the people in the community are the ones most likely to continue playing and get enough experience to realize that.

I typically make fun of people who do it, and I can tell you right now, on the Souls boards, I rarely get to aside from when there's a flood of new players due to a launch.

People will have a bad experience with some random shitposter and take it out on the entire community. Or they'll start screeching insane nonsense when it's just bad play on their part and then when they get told that, they double down and get upset over it. It's the same thing you see happen in most communities.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

There's also a difference between "you're right, it's really hard and can be frustrating, so here are some tips" and "I did it, I dunno what the hell's wrong with you."

Both parties have the choice, and it's better for one to make it right than neither.

The question remains why should everyone else accommodate the smug person demanding the world accommodate them.

I think everyone in this topic has accurately pointed out by now, saying "git gud" should not be said to individuals looking for help, and not demanding everyone accommodate them. So the real discussion here is the ones whining the game is frustrating and acting like devs or other players should accommodate their needs. Then crying foul when people say "git gud."

As Metal pointed out, theres a difference between:
Person A asking for assistance how to beat a strategy in a multi-player game, or a boss in a single player game.
Or Person B who hops online to call a person spamming a strategy they dont like trash players who suck, or a boss they know know how to be zomb op. ..... then demanding everyone coddle Person B.

asdf8562 posted...

The question remains why should everyone else accommodate the smug person demanding the world accommodate them.

Complaining the game is frustrating and acting like devs or other players should accommodate your needs doesnt mean everyone else should be nice to you.

ok why is ranting about a boss being hard a bad thing

gamers where doing that for a LONG time with out any issue

why is wanting a difficulty option a bad thing

yes creator vision and people are allowed to critique that vision

asdf8562 posted...

The question remains why should everyone else accommodate the smug person demanding the world accommodate them.

I think everyone in this topic has accurately pointed out by now, saying "git gud" should not be said to individuals looking for help, and not demanding everyone accommodate them. So the real discussion here is the ones whining the game is frustrating and acting like devs or other players should accommodate their needs. Then crying foul when people say "git gud."

I guess I just don't really understand the temptation. Seems to me it would be better to be helpful than, whatever you're trying to accomplish.

AceMos posted...

ok why is ranting about a boss being hard a bad thing

You can rant as much as you want. Its a free country (for now.)

But you ranting and demanding devs coddle you, or other players to coddle you because you are frustrated doesnt give you some moral high ground to stand on.

AceMos posted...

ok why is ranting about a boss being hard a bad thing

gamers where doing that for a LONG time with out any issue

why is wanting a difficulty option a bad thing

yes creator vision and people are allowed to critique that vision

Youre allowed to critique that vision, but thats why youre getting hit with git gud. If you were to come at it with actual notes of what youre having trouble with, you get constructive feedback. Otherwise youre just starting the easy mode debate again, which both sides are sick and tired of. And then you receive git gud responses, because they dont want to converse with you at that point.

It is very much useless smuggery. In every situation where its used, theres always something you could say thats more productive like:

hey that boss is weak to fire
dont lock on
stay in a mid range so he doesnt do x attack
etc, etc.

get good, is worse than saying nothing at all, because you just went out of your way to be of zero help.

AceMos posted...

ok why is ranting about a boss being hard a bad thing

Ranting is understandable but not productive. When I got stuck for a while on Malekith I calmed down and started paying more attention to his moves, then I learned the parry window on the Blasphemous Claw is beyond generous.

The fact I was aiming for an Age of the Stars ending on my first run gave me a wistful sort of appreciation that Ranni was still indirectly helping me even though she was by that point temporarily gone from the world.

i remember when people ranted about how hard super bosses where in older final fantasy games

yes these days people have found cheese strategies for them that trivialize any of them

but back in the day it was common and no one had a issue with it

even people who found the bosses easy

"Git gud" mentality is not something that started with Souls games. Variations of it have existed since before any modern game was even a concept. Hell, it's not even limited to gaming. Dismissals, especially in response to whining, have always existed. One of my earliest experiences with games was going into an arcade room, losing to a game, asking my dad's friend who was 'good' at it what to do, and him saying "Just don't die" or something like that.

The meme usage is the modern thing, as well as the frequency of the exact term itself.

And people still discuss the bosses, even today. Even Elden Ring's Malenia has so many topics of people discussing her mechanics, ranging from simple "this boss is bullshit" and "skill issue" to actual discussion of the mechanics.

VRX3000 posted...

hey that boss is weak to fire
dont lock on
stay in a mid range so he doesnt do x attack
etc, etc.

What do you say when those strategies aren't enough to win?

Useless smuggery for the most part but it can be a snarky response to someone who is complaining in bad faith about something, like "X boss is so cheap bc they have an attack that is hard to dodge" when literally the solution is to just learn the timing and avoid the attack.

asdf8562 posted...

Why whine to a person you cant beat and start calling them names because you cant beat them?
Or whine to a person about a strategy you dont find annoying or difficult to go against?
Or whine about devs having a mechanic you have a difficult time fighting against?

Why think the world needs to bend over backwards to accommodate people like that's feelings.... as if the whiners feelings only matter?

You complain of smugness, but here trying to frame the specific type of people who demand others accommodate them arent being smug.

huh?

i also think "git gud" has done irreparable damage to souls games in the eyes of people who would otherwise play and highly enjoy them

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted... Ranting is understandable but not productive.

why is there this onus on a frustrated player to be productive? i just literally dont get it. if someone is bitching about a game in a way i think is incorrect, but in their own thread, why would i go in there just to poke shit at them? i literally dont get it

@viewmaster_pi help a brutha out, i keep saying it this way but idk another way to say it and i think u get what im trying to say

Dungeater posted...

i also think "git gud" has done irreparable damage to souls games in the eyes of people who would otherwise play and highly enjoy them

If someone doesn't want to play a game because someone, who they associate with the game's community, said a 'mean' comment, then good riddance. If they really want to shoot themselves in the foot to spite a boogeyman, I'm not going to have any sympathy for such stupidity.

And I doubt there's many, if any, that actually fall into that category. Elden Ring was one of the most popular modern games, and Souls games in general have only gotten more and more popular.

Dungeater posted...

no in-between for this poll.

Sorry, there can be an in between, where sometimes it can be smug like "oh I beat Radahn SL 1 skill issue git gud" which is absolutely worthless, and then you have instances where someone says something sucks because of matters that are entirely self inflicted and it will not change until they, well, git gud.

dancing_cactuar posted...

Sorry, there can be an in between

no in-between for this poll.

i get it, but i don't have a better way to put it. i figure the main reason players vent over a certain part is actually to see if anyone else did too, and find comfort in knowing it's not just them. sometimes things really do just suck to play through and misery loves company

Then it's a shit poll that I refuse to vote in.

viewmaster_pi posted...

i get it, but i don't have a better way to put it. i figure the main reason players vent over a certain part is actually to see if anyone else did too, and find comfort in knowing it's not just them. sometimes things really do just suck to play through and misery loves company

indeed hell some times just throwing our thoughts out can just make us feel better

can help us calm down a bit and then we can turn around and do the thing

dancing_cactuar posted...

Then it's a shit poll that I refuse to vote in.

why is the internet this way man

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/241160-nioh-2/80434216

Turns out that not taking venting personally tends to be more productive all around.

I also err more on the side of accessibility -- I myself have colour issues and I live with someone who has a disability, and there are certain games that are a pain in the ass challenging that I love to bits which I wouldn't mind if they were more accessible because then I could play them with people I love.

Btw, I've only played one Dark Souls game (the first one), but as far as I can tell...

Ironically Dark Souls is more of a knowledge check than a skill check. A good setup will do most of the work for you. And learning enemy patterns will usually do the rest.
On the other hand making bad choices when you're building your character would probably make things much harder.

Relm_Arrowny_87 posted...

Ironically Dark Souls is more of a knowledge check than a skill check. A good setup will do most of the work for you. And learning enemy patterns will usually do the rest.

Yep. A lot of people go into Souls games thinking that you need some crazy good reaction speed and on the fly thinking.

The reality is that it just boils down to:

"Watch the enemy's attacks, get used to the combos, attack / heal when it's recovering from said attack combos. For defense, roll or block".

There are advanced strats outside of that, but they aren't needed to have a good experience.

Attacks that fly out super fast are either A) extremely rare first hits that are barely punishing, but designed to scare you into panicking, or B) part of a combo chain, typically late into it, so you can easily predict when they're going to be used.

Knowing what to do is pretty much the only obstacle in Souls. The technical skill is almost nonexistent unless you're doing an extreme challenge run like hyperagression.

Erika_Redmark posted...

I also err more on the side of accessibility -- I myself have colour issues and I live with someone who has a disability, and there are certain games that are a pain in the ass challenging that I love to bits which I wouldn't mind if they were more accessible because then I could play them with people I love.

I don't think we should compare accessibility options which can help people with disabilities with people who just don't want to try more. I have a friend who would get frustrated in Dark Souls and stop playing when he couldn't beat a boss despite not trying any new strategies or wanting to learn the bosses movesets because, as per his words, "I don't want to have to get a PHD to play the game". Mind you, this is a person who plays DND where he has to read what I can only call a textbook and do homework to actually play the game.