Board 8 > A Feast For Crows Mafia: Topic 13 - Most Have Been Forgotten.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Most deserve to be forgotten. The heroes will always be remembered. The best. The best and the worst. And a few who were a bit of both.

VI has died! He was Arya Stark, TOWN Vanilla!

Quick As Snakes (4):
1) bng_mmmk
8) Leafeon13N
9) Leo3L
13) Nanahara715

Stuck With The Pointy End:
LD1: FFD - The High Sparrow, TOWN Bulletproof
KN1: Scare - Brienne of Tarth, TOWN Double Voting Protector
KN1: Stan - Doran Martell, TOWN Ninja Cop
LD2: dowolf - Osney Kettleblack, TOWN Vanilla
KN2: MajinZidane - Marillion, TOWN Bodyguard
KN2: DoomTheGyarados - Victarion Greyjoy, GREYJOY Persistant Strongman Vigilante
LD3: Shaduln - Theon Greyjoy, GREYJOY Ninja Godfather
LD4: Han - Asha Greyjoy, GREYJOY Tracker
KN4: Jeff_Zero - Lady Stoneheart, TOWN One-shot Vigilante
LD5: Vengeful_KBM - Randyll Tarly, TOWN Vanilla
KN5: Death - Rorge, TOWN Thief
LD6: MI - Aeron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Jack-of-all-Trades
KN6: VI - Arya Stark, TOWN Vanilla

With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day ends at 9 PM on Thursday.

@bng_mmmk
@Leafeon13N
@Leo3L
@Nanahara715

GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO
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We strongly suspect that it's Red based on several reasons.

1. How he was treated by the other four scum. Puns could have easily, easily been lynched D1 if Scare had voted correctly but scum took no action to save him. Nana got a lot of attention early on and MI has tried to lynch him for like two weeks straight, including on days where roleblocker lynched = the game is lost for scum. Red on the other hand was town cleared by Chris early on because nobody knows Red like Chris, was never went after by scum, got softball questions and undeserved neutral or town rankings by scum. That's the attitude I'd expect from a scum team in regards to their roleblocker.

2. General contributions and play. You can definitely point out a lot of flaws in Nana's play. Personally I think Nana gets a bad rap a lot of the time. I think he's been playing in a town-y way because he's been completely unfiltered. He'll say whatever he's thinking, even if it's a crazy theory or something unpalatable to other players. As scum, he has no personality, no spark of life, even less active than you think he's been this game. Totally bloodless. I don't even have to go as far as saying that he can't fake anger over silly things like a Hanmer vote, he's just had a pulse this game.

Meanwhile, Red has not. I confess, I don't know Red very well as a player. I know he's one of the legendary players and he dies N1 a lot. He won that Chrono Cross game as an actual bus driver. Hell, I think he killed scum with a bus drive in a game I hosted, too. But this Red has not impressed. Even when he's cast shade on a scum player early on, he did nothing to get them lynched. He would just say "geez I sure do wish I had lynched that guy like I thought" after they flip. His defense is entirely WIFOM of his own making - how exactly are we supposed to know he would never let Chris claim vig as scum? We said the same thing about Chris claiming vig as scum!

Red has been a total non-factor. If you want an example, look at him giving up his autonmy completely by just being my puppet the last two days. Not a very town mindset.

3. He was not shot at, roleblocked, or generally harmed in any way by night actions. Red is like the only one Chris might actually respect when it comes to Mafia. The Only One He Ever Feared. But nah, let's kill Scare and Boko. One might call it...rule one. This is a second layer on top of never being attacked during the day phase.

I'll be honest. Scare and FFD have done extensive re-reads and want to kill Red. Stan has posted 1980's Transformers power ballads to pump us up. Even Boko has come up firmly in favor of lynching Red.

This isn't a day of frantically trying to find the scum. As far as I'm concerned, today is about convincing Turbopuns that it is the correct course of action. I have a lot of quoted posts on the mason board to draw on, should they be required.

I will listen to arguments on Nana. I'll even listen to arguments on Puns (LOL he named the entire scum team in his first post!!!). Just know that I'm unlikely to be moved by "Nana posted this and it didn't make senseeeeeee!"

"Bad" does not equal Scum.

##Vote: Red
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*sigh*

I read the first several words of each line. Lol. I'll be home in about 20. But ok.
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Also fuck you MI. I will never answer your drunk FB messages again.

(JK though)
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It's a less sigh worthy post if you finish the sentences, probably!
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Bourbon tho.

I ain't in a hurry here.
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Honestly, the conclusion I came to on a reread was something like Red is scum and Puns is lucky as fuck (1/78 chance of hitting 4 scum in his first post; later post was "Maybe Scare dying is as simple as a Han/Chris/MI/Red scum team").

For Puns to be scum, he's got to be something insane like BP Roleblocking Traitor and his first post is him signaling to the scum team. Scum seems pretty weak with only 4.5 though, but not sure if that's overstated because of how much Leo was able to steamroll because of us lynching the BP first.

Is it worth discussing not lynching anyone and bringing it down to three?
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No No-Lynches. That's off the table. It would not accomplish anything, scum will just shoot me/no kill.
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home now.

no lynching in 4 is literally always pointless because it lets scum decide what to do
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Leo3L posted...

1. How he was treated by the other four scum. Puns could have easily, easily been lynched D1 if Scare had voted correctly but scum took no action to save him. Nana got a lot of attention early on and MI has tried to lynch him for like two weeks straight, including on days where roleblocker lynched = the game is lost for scum. Red on the other hand was town cleared by Chris early on because nobody knows Red like Chris, was never went after by scum, got softball questions and undeserved neutral or town rankings by scum. That's the attitude I'd expect from a scum team in regards to their roleblocker.

gonna do this a bit at a time


didn't Nana also get cleared by Chris day 1?

in fact I literally know that he did. it was in my D1 wall yesterday.
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"if you vote Nana I will hurt you" or something
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Yes. As was Death, etc. At worst it's a null tell. But I think the two examples are different - one was Chris exiting an engagement after a lot of pointless pissing about elitism, the Red one was based on even less. Nana got way more votes, etc that day. The only one who looked meanly in Red's direction was FFD when he was going down, pretty sure.
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Leo3L posted...

Meanwhile, Red has not. I confess, I don't know Red very well as a player. I know he's one of the legendary players and he dies N1 a lot. He won that Chrono Cross game as an actual bus driver. Hell, I think he killed scum with a bus drive in a game I hosted, too. But this Red has not impressed. Even when he's cast shade on a scum player early on, he did nothing to get them lynched. He would just say "geez I sure do wish I had lynched that guy like I thought" after they flip. His defense is entirely WIFOM of his own making - how exactly are we supposed to know he would never let Chris claim vig as scum? We said the same thing about Chris claiming vig as scum!

Red has been a total non-factor. If you want an example, look at him giving up his autonmy completely by just being my puppet the last two days. Not a very town mindset.

The puppet thing I give you for sure. What is the scum player he cast shade on? Was that Han? and the post-flip reactions?
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bng_mmmk posted...

Leo3L posted...

Meanwhile, Red has not. I confess, I don't know Red very well as a player. I know he's one of the legendary players and he dies N1 a lot. He won that Chrono Cross game as an actual bus driver. Hell, I think he killed scum with a bus drive in a game I hosted, too. But this Red has not impressed. Even when he's cast shade on a scum player early on, he did nothing to get them lynched. He would just say "geez I sure do wish I had lynched that guy like I thought" after they flip. His defense is entirely WIFOM of his own making - how exactly are we supposed to know he would never let Chris claim vig as scum? We said the same thing about Chris claiming vig as scum!

Red has been a total non-factor. If you want an example, look at him giving up his autonmy completely by just being my puppet the last two days. Not a very town mindset.

The puppet thing I give you for sure. What is the scum player he cast shade on? Was that Han? and the post-flip reactions?

He said he would join a B8 special on Shad and Han. He said he would have gone after Chris if there was a counter claim, and regretted not actually doing a thing to B8 special Shad or Han.

I will also note that I still don't believe Town Vig counter claiming is the pro-town course of action, nor does FFD.
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Leo what the hell.

##Unvote
##Vote: Red

That is a heart vote. I think KBM's a fall [guy] here and red is manipulating the lynch.

What were your thoughts here, Puns?
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I can't believe you have that many players collectively losing the game.

I mean we already lost the game by losing MI like he said, might as well lose it a second time
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Leo3L posted...

I will listen to arguments on Nana. I'll even listen to arguments on Puns (LOL he named the entire scum team in his first post!!!). Just know that I'm unlikely to be moved by "Nana posted this and it didn't make senseeeeeee!"

That wasnt even remotely my argument yesterday. This is why i have no faith in you and at least half the people you recruited leo(boko, ffd).

Scare i am just beyond disappointed in. He knows me better thsn any of them.

Also im at work right now just on break, dont expect full arguments until i get home but

Leo3L posted...

##Unvote
##Vote: Red

That is a heart vote. I think KBM's a fall [guy] here and red is manipulating the lynch.

What were your thoughts here, Puns?

Read KBM as town, thought red was the most manipulative in terms of that lynch.
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Well, if you're Town, I recommend making an effort to actually find and prove someone else is scum. Just for the novelty of it. When you get home.
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For one, leo just coming out and voting me is stupid. You know damn well you dont know anyones alignment at all and you are just going to come out and vote without talking it over in game. Thats not even a little bit the right plsy here.

bng_mmmk posted...

Leo3L posted...

##Unvote
##Vote: Red

That is a heart vote. I think KBM's a fall [guy] here and red is manipulating the lynch.

What were your thoughts here, Puns?

Read KBM as town, thought red was the most manipulative in terms of that lynch.

I was split between nana and kbm. Had to make a choice and run with it.

Leo3L posted...

Well, if you're Town, I recommend making an effort to actually find and prove someone else is scum. Just for the novelty of it. When you get home.

Proof is not going to be possible. I can give you an argument though.

I mean I like that Red is posting even though his responses feel kind of boxed. Nana made his presence known and is just sitting.
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We know the last scum remaining is the roleblocker. We know the scum team is (mostly) very skilled players. Does a scum team that powerful + weak link scum roleblocker Nana decide to just draw as much attention possible to the roleblocker? Getting screwed by power seems their main way to lose. Just look at how the game played out - town was getting crushed for two days straight, absolutely dominated, until Jeff shot Chris.

Even though Chris wrote him off as town, MI never, ever did and kept going after him hard.
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Leafeon13N posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

Leo3L posted...

##Unvote
##Vote: Red

That is a heart vote. I think KBM's a fall [guy] here and red is manipulating the lynch.

What were your thoughts here, Puns?

Read KBM as town, thought red was the most manipulative in terms of that lynch.

I was split between nana and kbm. Had to make a choice and run with it.

But you didn't even make a choice, you checked with and followed Leo
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Leafeon13N posted...

For one, leo just coming out and voting me is stupid. You know damn well you dont know anyones alignment at all and you are just going to come out and vote without talking it over in game. Thats not even a little bit the right plsy here.

Are you worried about being hammered by the two remaining scum

We've been talking for 6000 damn posts. I've re-read this friggin' game so much I'm sick of it and that's not even counting Scare's reread he did instead of sleeping last night.

If you're going to somehow finally pull a rabbit out of your hat, do it with a gun to your head says I
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Nanahara715 posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

Leo3L posted...

##Unvote
##Vote: Red

That is a heart vote. I think KBM's a fall [guy] here and red is manipulating the lynch.

What were your thoughts here, Puns?

Read KBM as town, thought red was the most manipulative in terms of that lynch.

I was split between nana and kbm. Had to make a choice and run with it.

But you didn't even make a choice, you checked with and followed Leo

^
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Leo3L posted...

We know the last scum remaining is the roleblocker. We know the scum team is (mostly) very skilled players. Does a scum team that powerful + weak link scum roleblocker Nana decide to just draw as much attention possible to the roleblocker? Getting screwed by power seems their main way to lose. Just look at how the game played out - town was getting crushed for two days straight, absolutely dominated, until Jeff shot Chris.

Even though Chris wrote him off as town, MI never, ever did and kept going after him hard.

Draw attention to Nana how? MI attacked him and Chris defended him. But it seems MI's whole case was kind of bogus which sort of feels like protection?

I....don't remember how Han and Shad acted with him.
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Also on one point MI literally let out why scare died n1 and not me. I even pointed it out when he said it.

The reason i didn't die? First off chris and MI were scum, it puts a bigger target on them immediately. Two, chris was trying and for a good bit did manipulate me day 2.

And I'll forever stand by that countering vigi is the right thing to do. Jeff literally let Chris manipulate the day by not countering, lost us dowolf, and lost the vigi shot. He counterclaims chris burns and we keep all the losses and hes still confirmed vigi. (boko takes bullet for him)

I remember Han decided to not vote him as he was dying.
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Leo you are literally confirmed town masons. Why the hell would i not value you over literally everyone else.

Also im going to go back to how demoralized scum played when we thought the remaining was between mi death and nana kbm. This is something i think has kind of floen over everyones heads.

The only hangup I had today was the risk Puns was scum. I don't think, with Leo already voting Red, that he puts this much into trying to change his mind, if all he needed to do was vote Red.

##Vote: Red

Puns, if you're the last scum, good game
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Leafeon13N posted...

Also im going to go back to how demoralized scum played when we thought the remaining was between mi death and nana kbm. This is something i think has kind of floen over everyones heads.

This doesn't make any sense unless you knew who the scum team when it was happening? How do you know scum played demoralized?

Did you feel that, until late yesterday, Immy was demoralized?
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Leo3L posted...

Meanwhile, Red has not. I confess, I don't know Red very well as a player. I know he's one of the legendary players and he dies N1 a lot. He won that Chrono Cross game as an actual bus driver. Hell, I think he killed scum with a bus drive in a game I hosted, too. But this Red has not impressed. Even when he's cast shade on a scum player early on, he did nothing to get them lynched. He would just say "geez I sure do wish I had lynched that guy like I thought" after they flip. His defense is entirely WIFOM of his own making - how exactly are we supposed to know he would never let Chris claim vig as scum? We said the same thing about Chris claiming vig as scum!

I haven't yet dusted off the rust, tbh. Especially early in games. Go look at CC. I'm pretty passive most points til later on when I'm really sure what to do. The best part of my game is usually guiding towns to stay the course the game dictates and not go on crazy tangents.

The things that's been really messing with me about Nana:

-the whole "I'm detached from the game" thing on the day Han was lynched, I think it was. Like the votes were 2 for Han and 2 for Nana. He posted that "I support Han lynch, because I trust the people voting him. Disregard that I'm the opposite choice".

-and kinda the same point. later on he was like "here's some thoughts but disregard them because you don't know my alignment!" like it screams that he's trying to influence thoughts without people casting any judgement whatsoever on him.

-plus the whole "puns has been calling Han scum since day one but I'll follow him finally on day 4 because I trust him, OH GOD HAN FLIPPED SCUM, PUNS IS SCUM" like that was bogus as all get out


Red has sketched me out but I can't read his posts and straight up be like "town does not do this ever, town does not say this ever"

With Nana I can say that a lot.
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Leafeon13N posted...

Leo you are literally confirmed town masons. Why the hell would i not value you over literally everyone else.

The argument isn't that you shouldn't have valued his opinion, it's that you just claimed in P24 that you made a choice, but when you go back to that day and read, it's basically you asking Leo what you should do, basically absolving you of your "choice".
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Nanahara715 posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

Also im going to go back to how demoralized scum played when we thought the remaining was between mi death and nana kbm. This is something i think has kind of floen over everyones heads.

This doesn't make any sense unless you knew who the scum team when it was happening? How do you know scum played demoralized?

Did you feel that, until late yesterday, Immy was demoralized?

Multiple people have essentially said he felt lifeless. And shad literally threw in the towel snd didnt post. Han hardly fought his lynch at all. I dont see how you call that anything but.

MI didn't show fire until he had a chance to win the game yesterday.

Break is up I'll be back tonight.

##Vote: Red

What is dead may never die.
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Leafeon13N posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

Also im going to go back to how demoralized scum played when we thought the remaining was between mi death and nana kbm. This is something i think has kind of floen over everyones heads.

This doesn't make any sense unless you knew who the scum team when it was happening? How do you know scum played demoralized?

Did you feel that, until late yesterday, Immy was demoralized?

Multiple people have essentially said he felt lifeless. And shad literally threw in the towel snd didnt post. Han hardly fought his lynch at all. I dont see how you call that anything but.

MI didn't show fire until he had a chance to win the game yesterday.

At the end of the day, he was pushing hard for me to be lynched - if I'm scum, how did he "have a chance to win yesterday" if that included lynching me?
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STOP STOP STOP

Plz
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Votals:
[3] Red - Leo, Nana, Puns

Leafeon13N has been lynched! He was Samwell Tarly, TOWN Vanilla!

Slayers (3):
1) bng_mmmk
9) Leo3L
13) Nanahara715

Ser Piggies:
LD1: FFD - The High Sparrow, TOWN Bulletproof
KN1: Scare - Brienne of Tarth, TOWN Double Voting Protector
KN1: Stan - Doran Martell, TOWN Ninja Cop
LD2: dowolf - Osney Kettleblack, TOWN Vanilla
KN2: MajinZidane - Marillion, TOWN Bodyguard
KN2: DoomTheGyarados - Victarion Greyjoy, GREYJOY Persistant Strongman Vigilante
LD3: Shaduln - Theon Greyjoy, GREYJOY Ninja Godfather
LD4: Han - Asha Greyjoy, GREYJOY Tracker
KN4: Jeff_Zero - Lady Stoneheart, TOWN One-shot Vigilante
LD5: Vengeful_KBM - Randyll Tarly, TOWN Vanilla
KN5: Death - Rorge, TOWN Thief
LD6: MI - Aeron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Jack-of-all-Trades
KN6: VI - Arya Stark, TOWN Vanilla
LD7: Red - Samwell Tarly, TOWN Vanilla

It is now night. You have until 9 PM tomorrow to get all night actions to me.

No posting.
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Nana has died! He was Arys Oakheart, TOWN Vanilla!

Leo and his merry bad of corpses have been endgame'D! He was NOT BULLETPROOF AT ALL HOLY HELL WHAT A SLICK FAKE CLAIM AND PERFECT TIMING OF HIS ONE SHOT BP VEST. He was actually, Guild of the Faceless Men, TOWN Unlimited Dead Mason Recruiter and Limited (i.e. one shot) Backup(s)!

That means the GREYJOY team of:
DoomTheGyarados - Victarion Greyjoy, GREYJOY Persistant Strongman Vigilante
Shaduln - Theon Greyjoy, GREYJOY Ninja Godfather
Han - Asha Greyjoy, GREYJOY Tracker
MI - Aeron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Jack-of-all-Trades

AND

COMING IN ALL THE WAY FROM BEYOND QARTH WITH HIS CREW OF TONGUELESS WEIRDOS

Puns - Euron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Bulletproof Roleblocker

More thoughts to come shortly, but DAMN what a game from Puns. From Puns, MI, and Chris, really. It is oh so hard for me to pick an MVP. Just great scum play all around. Puns was obviously key, but MI was HUGE slipping out of that lynch against KBM because if he gets there who knows if Puns can run the table by himself. And Chris just dominated the early game AND was huge on the scumboards when everyone else was losing their mind a bit when Leo put on the Leo show. Great calming influence, great MASTER PLOTTING, and some really good WIFOM sprinkled throughout his time in the game (vig claim was maybe not the safest claim with like 10 people not claimed yet but FUN FUN SO MUCH FUN and hey it worked out in the end).

Also, I need to talk about how this was the unluckiest lucky scum team I've ever seen. Like, just impossibly unlucky. Everything that possibly could've gone wrong, did. Things will make a bit more sense when you see the full set up:
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First off, here is the big master role list:

1) Euron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Bulletproof Roleblocker - puns
2) Asha Greyjoy, GREYJOY Tracker - Han
3) Theon Greyjoy, GREYJOY Ninja Godfather - Shad
4) Aeron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Jack-of-all-Trades (bus drive, body removal, psychic, name scan) - MI
5) Victarion Greyjoy, GREYJOY Persistant Strongman Vigilante (extra kill, goes through all protection in the game not affected by redirection roles) - Chris

NOTE: When Euron dies, remaining members have a "Kingsmoot" where they decide who will become roleblocker at the sacrifice of their other powers (basically a backup roleblocker for scum - unannounced though hinted at in some of their flavors)

6) Rorge, TOWN Thief (Steals one item from any living player just a flavorful flavor cop basically no roleblocking ability) - Death
7) Doran Martell, TOWN Ninja Cop - Stan
8) Lady Stoneheart, TOWN Vigilante - Jeff
9) Brienne of Tarth, TOWN Double Voting Protector (Select target person is doctor saved that night. Also has a two use day unlynchabilizer that must be used more than twelve hours before a day ends. Also has a permanent double vote.) - Scare
10) Marillion, TOWN Bodyguard - Boko
11) Guild of the Faceless Men, TOWN Unlimited Dead Mason Recruiter and Backup (Can recruit any previously killed TOWN player. No limit to number of recruits but can only recruit one per night. Actionable role that can be role blocked. Each night can assume the role of one player and gain any unused night actions they may have for that night. Limit one use per player (can't use same power twice). Can recruit and use action on same night. Both can be roleblocked. Sort of a "delayed JOAT"- Leo
12) High Sparrow, TOWN Bulletproof - FFD
13) Osney Kettleblack, TOWN Vanilla - dowolf
14) Arya Stark, TOWN Vanilla - VI
15) Samwell Tarly, TOWN Vanilla - red
16) Arys Oakheart, TOWN Vanilla - Nana
17) Randyll Tarly, TOWN Vanilla - KBM

Death's master thieving list:
Euron - You were unable to steal anything
Asha - You were unable to steal anything
Theon - You were unable to steal anything
Aeron - You were unable to steal anything
Victarion - You were unable to steal anything
Rorge - Why'd you steal from yourself, you big dummy?
Doran Martell - You stole a palanquin. Jerk probably wasn't using it anyway.
Lady Stoneheart - You stole a clump of white hair. Gross.
Brienne of Tarth - You stole a damn fine sword. Looks real nice, this one does. Probably would fetch a couple hundred gold dragons, heh, heh, heh.
Marillion - You stole a harp. If only you knew how to play the damn thing.
Guild of the Faceless Men - (If no one has been recruited) You were unable to steal anything. (If at least one player was recruited) You stole...what the hell is this? Is this a face?
High Sparrow - You were unable to steal anything
Osney Kettleblack - You were unable to steal anything
Arya Stark - You were unable to steal anything
Samwell Tarly - You were unable to steal anything
Arys Oakheart - You stole a sword. You've seen nicer ones.
Randyll Tarly - You stole a sword. Looks nice enough, I guess.
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GG

Amazing game, Puns. I guess scum gets to mock me after all! Best mafia game that I can remember, it actually felt even. I have personal regrets, but, still, well played scum!
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I am...so glad it's over.
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