Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 2 - A Second Serving of Subtle Spiciness

(+) Yeah! (+)

PLAYERS ALIVE

1 - changmas
2 - Corrik7
3 - ctesjbuvf
4 - HanOfTheNekos
5 - hbthebattle
6 - htaeD
7 - Kirby321
8 - Lea
9 - Lopen
10 - MZero
11 - Obellisk
12 - PoppyTheNinja
13 - red13n
14 - TheSultanOfSlam
15 - UltimaterializerX

With 15 alive it takes 8 votes to lynch
4 - Kirby - (Lea), (Lopen), Ulti, Corrik, Lopen, Lea
2 - Han - (Lea), (Lopen), Kirby, Sbell
2 - hb - MZero, Poppy
1 - Ulti - Sultan
1 - Lea - (Ulti), (Kirby), Ctes
0 - Sultan - (Poppy), (MZero)
0 - Lopen - (Kirby)

Lopen posted...

That sounds like a scum role.

So does Lea's claim tho

Kirby321 posted...

You're awfully insistent.

You really think a person on the Mafia would suicide for a Miller of all things, when the stakes are so low? Ben was an excellent example of suiciding Mafia last game, taking down the Cop with him and ultimately securing the victory for scum.

If Lea is scum suiciding onto a Miller, I must simply laugh.

The point being, which you ignored, it's very reasonable for it not to be suicide at all because the game is role madness. Scum!Lea would have a decent chance of getting away with it based on "there being two millers, oops". How is it unreasonable for scum to take a freer kill if they can do so with no consequences?

Kirby claiming literal miller in his role now?

That looks alot like my noise maker evil invention from my Nickelodeon game. That was a scum ability. (Copy from topic 1)

Kirby is using your ability mandatory or not

I dont like playing devils advocate, but there are thoughts in my head that I am not sure if Kirby would have as town...
....

Which is why I will wait a bit before vocalizing those thoughts.

Obellisk posted...

Did you just legit claim 3rd party?

No wtf I was referring to Kingmaker Mafia when I had an OP af third-party role and damn near almost won the game.

Since then all of my roles have been crap (Gladiator), boring (Vanilla), or otherwise gimped (even night Watcher).

Kirby321 posted...

No wtf I was referring to Kingmaker Mafia when I had an OP af third-party role and damn near almost won the game.

Since then all of my roles have been crap (Gladiator), boring (Vanilla), or otherwise gimped (even night Watcher).

ok, it read, to me, as you just rolling over and saying you got a shitty power as third party.

But still. There is zero town equity in your role. Is it a required action?

Lopen posted...

Kirby is using your ability mandatory or not

You know, that's a good question. I never considered just... not using my ability, and I didn't ask if it was mandatory or not. All I know is that if I don't specify a target, then the illusion defaults to visiting me.

I was considering just making an illusion of myself every night and just not specifying a target to have my illusion visit myself, but that got vetoed.

(btw, Han, I've unvoted you for the moment but still need to read back, I will grant you your request and reassess)

So you didn't think to ask if you had to use your ability?

Do you see any way your ability isn't anti-town? I mean you had some time before the game to mull over the greater meaning of your ability-- it strikes me as strange that you didn't ask this.

And Kirby is your item good or similarly low power?

And do you get to know where your target is framed as visiting or is it a mystery?

Lopen posted...

So you didn't think to ask if you had to use your ability?

Do you see any way your ability isn't anti-town? I mean you had some time before the game to mull over the greater meaning of your ability-- it strikes me as strange that you didn't ask this.

Listen, you're talking to the same doofus who gladiated chang because third-party Chris told him to do so (major exaggeration, but you get the point). Foresight ain't exactly my forte.

I knew my role was anti-town on the onset. I knew for damn sure it would not look convincing at all to get guilty scanned and claim this stuff as my role and not mention it earlier. That's the other part of the reason I instantly claimed Miller.

It took me until the whole "maybe I'm lying about wanting to get shot" thing to realize I could use my role to trick scum into believing I had a legitimate power. But that's completely contingent on scum having a tracker or watcher. Otherwise, I don't know how my role fits in other than screwing over town because being Miller alone just wasn't enough.

Lopen posted...

And do you get to know where your target is framed as visiting or is it a mystery?

Could you elaborate? Are you asking if I get confirmation that my role succeeded? If so, I don't know. Another thing that didn't cross my mind.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I'm not retracting my claim. I'm telling the truth.

Lopen posted...

And Kirby is your item good or similarly low power?

It's okay. It has a drawback that makes it slightly risky to use, but it yields useful info.

Kirby321 posted...

I can target players to create illusions of them and make it seem like they visited somebody else.

Kirby321 posted...

Could you elaborate? Are you asking if I get confirmation that my role succeeded? If so, I don't know. Another thing that didn't cross my mind.

I'm asking if you are told who the "somebody else" is that your role makes them seem as though they visited

For example say you target me and it appears I target Lea-- do you know that I have appeared to target Lea or would you just know you made me appear to target someone I did not?

Also does it replace my original move? For example say I targeted red instead of Lea but your ability illusioned me to her, would it appear as though I targeted red and Lea, or just Lea.

Okay at this point I think I will just say it.
But it seems very much possible to me that some roles will just be weak or anti town to offset the lack of nillas (assuming there is a lack of them like last role madness)
Weak in the sense that they dont need a good item to make up for it

Also Lopen I am pretty sure that was already answered by Kirby within the claim post?

Lopen posted...

I'm asking if you are told who the "somebody else" is that your role makes them seem as though they visited

For example say you target me and it appears I target Lea-- do you know that I have appeared to target Lea or would you just know you made me appear to target someone I did not?

Also does it replace my original move? For example say I targeted red instead of Lea but your ability illusioned me to her, would it appear as though I targeted red and Lea, or just Lea.

Oh no I tell the illusion who they visit.

If I make an illusion of you, I also get to select who the illusion targets. So I can force your illusion to visit Lea.

My assumption is that it's completely independent of what you do. If you decide to slap Han N1 while I make an illusion of you visiting Lea, I presume a tracker would see you visiting both Han and Lea.

Kirby321 posted...

I presume a tracker would see you visiting both Han and Lea.

You should ask instead of presuming. In the meantime.

##Unvote
##vote: Ulti

How exactly do you know Lea's a ninja and nothing else?

Well if your item solves Kirby's role it's probably not that great so why not tell us your item

Kirby, you said you don't know if your anti-town is compelled, but you also said if you don't use it that it... defaults to you... but you... have to select who and where it goes.... so how could it default to just you?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Furthermore, his claim is blatantly a safelist claim and the role hes describing is not how Shadow Demon works; he also didnt give either name (Eredar, Giblet) for the character, when my role absolutely has a character name attached.

Kirby321 posted...

This is gonna be fun is what it is. I may not have played DotA 2, but I liked the MOBA terminology sprinkled into the introduction lol

this is actually kind of a good point tbh

I'm not unvoting Ulti for that lame ass power hint

Dude has been asleep at the wheel he needs to do better or someone needs to generate a better target

Frankly I didnt even notice he claimed flavor in between all that talk, thats how much the DOTA stuff washes over me.

Kirby321 posted...

You know, that's a good question. I never considered just... not using my ability, and I didn't ask if it was mandatory or not. All I know is that if I don't specify a target, then the illusion defaults to visiting me.

Like this can't be correct based on how his role supposedly works. How can it default to himself to visit when he didn't specify who visited him.

Lea... hmmm

Ulti is this impossibility of coexistence 100 % verifiable?
No possible "Guess role madness really means role madness hahaha" takebacks?

Ignore Ulti, Death.

Look at my post. Ulti's item means nothing in a role madness game.

Kirby, do you care to address what I pointed out doesn't logically make sense in your role?

Frankly it's too convenient that Ulti's item happens to interact with the two (out of two) claims in the game and that's why I want to know what his item is.

I see problems with Kirby's claim, in what Corrik has pointed out and the general point/function of the role. Kirby should ask the host the answer to these questions or answer them himself.

I am looking, but I cant do anything with that til Kirby answers.

I am not even sure if Ulti used his item, or if it just is that 'evident' as a connection to the miller claims.

all we know of Lea is miller ninja. Lea hasn't finished claiming according to her.

Ulti has item that confirms Lea isn't lying though.

my brain hurts

Kirby321 posted...

You know, that's a good question. I never considered just... not using my ability, and I didn't ask if it was mandatory or not. All I know is that if I don't specify a target, then the illusion defaults to visiting me.

I was considering just making an illusion of myself every night and just not specifying a target to have my illusion visit myself, but that got vetoed.

I had to make sure I wasn't just being bad at articulating. If I don't specify a target for the illusion to visit, then the illusion visits me. That's what I was told.

Am I just confusing, or does Corrik not read?