have you traded in your natty card?

for years i have worked out with not a lot to show for it. not just referring to muscle here, but to increased energy in response to exercise with a variety of frequencies and modalities. once i began treatment for sleep apnea a couple of years ago i was hopeful that improvements would come. there have been some, but it's slow going. according to strengthlevel.com, i'm generally around the intermediate category for my body weight, though closer to novice for pushing movements, and i'd much rather have even just 10 more pounds of muscle than more pound-for-pound strength.

both before and since sleep apnea treatment, my testosterone levels have generally come back middling, somewhere in the 500s (ng/dl), with free test closer to the low end of its respective range. i wouldn't be able to get a trt prescription aside from potentially sketchy online clinics, which i've been looking into. i don't want to use needles and i don't want my hormone status to be compromised if the unthinkable happened (you know, shtf, false imprisonment, etc.), so trt is out, but i'm leaning towards a low daily dose of enclomiphene, a SERM that increases testosterone production, for a few months and seeing what happens, whether with exercise response, energy levels, or anything.

i think jeff bezos is the canary in the swole mine of rampant trt use among elites. if he's running enough gear to put him through a second puberty (compare his voice in interviews from the late 90s to today, for example) then it seems probable his peers are running more sensible doses, and if they're doing that, there's something about it they perceive as essential
i don't want to live like them, but it's something i've thought about

and you?

lifetime member of the dumpy club

rivers posted...

i think jeff bezos is the canary in the swole mine of rampant trt use among elites.

lol

Was expecting a cheap beer thread.

I thought this was about beer.

Spurner posted...

Was expecting a cheap beer thread.

natty light brother

*vomits internally*

Spurner posted...

Was expecting a cheap beer thread.

same here

I dont take anything to increase my testosterone levels, I have plenty of energy. But, I am technologically enhanced.

Low testosterone sucks from what I've heard. If you have the means and think it will help then it seems like a no brainer.

I would be open to it when I'm older (already getting up there though tbh), but I don't think vanity should be the driving factor. Physical and mental health are good enough reasons to do something imo

No gear for me. I don't care about having huge muscles like that.

And for the people who voted for the "confused" option, TC is talking about taking steroids. "Natty" means someone that hasn't taken steroids to gain muscles, but had instead gotten there "naturally"

rivers posted...

i'd much rather have even just 10 more pounds of muscle than more pound-for-pound strength.

Wut. Unless you are on gear you cannot gain muscle without getting stronger on your lifts.

Iodine posted...

Wut. Unless you are on gear you cannot gain muscle without getting stronger on your lifts.

Right, I just mean that Id rather build muscle and be slightly weaker per kg than continue to eke out tiny strength gains while staying the same size, but it seems like I am only capable of the latter at this point

im open to the idea that I dont need anything. Im definitely bigger and stronger than I was years ago on the same diet, so maybe previous failed attempts at very high protein intake would be more successful now. But like Jeff, I guess I want more

I would vote for the bottom option but I don't agree with the censorship displayed in it so I refuse to vote

Iodine posted...

Wut. Unless you are on gear you cannot gain muscle without getting stronger on your lifts.

Past a certain experience level you can, and it doesn't really have anything to do with drugs. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is when the muscles swell with fluid without actually increasing the capacity of the contractive tissue.

Think of it like an engine in a car's body. A bigger frame will allow for a bigger engine, so one begets the other, but training for size vs strength can also be two separate goals. That's why bodybuilders and powerlifters often look and train differently.

Now, back in the early 2000s we used to exaggerate that difference when we didn't know any better, as if going from one rep range and crossing into another magically transitions you from strength (1-3 reps) to size (8-12); if you're weak, part of the advice is going to be gain some weight, but it's not correct to say size=strength, either.