Hades was kind of a letdown

Board 8

Board 8 » Hades was kind of a letdown
Maybe my expectations were too high because a lot of internet gamers rave about it but i found it incredibly short on content.

The whole time i was playing i thought the first 4 floors and beating Hades would be like getting to Mom in Isaac, yknow? Like after i beat him enough times i would unlock the later floors to like climb to Olympus or something. Imagine my disappointment.

And playing these same 4 floors turns into such a drag. All im doing is killing the little soldiers that turn into eyes, oh man dodge the butterflies, oh man i walked into lava again there goes my 2% damage buff, oh look Athenas dash guess i win again.

When I saw the little curtains Skelly put out i was like ok nice, thats gotta be some armor or something, shit maybe theres even 3 new weapons or like a loadout you pick. 3 auras i dont know. Imagine my disappointment.

After that i was like wow fuck this so i just googled what else there was to unlock, maybe i gotta beat Hades 10 times with each weapon or something. Nah, this is it.

I dont have the motivation to like, max out my friendship with everyone or complete the prophecies because the core gameplay is too repetitive. While the combat was fun at first, the game doesnt offer enough variety when im fighting the same enemies over and over. The different aspects on the weapons and Boon synergies only do so much for me.

Ive put hundreds of hours into Isaac, and of course that games gotten 18 expansions over the last 19 years, but even a game like Enter the Gungeon has way more to do. Slay The Spire feels more replayable because the decision-making is deep. With Hades i can only hack my way through 4 floors so many times before it feels like theres nothing to do.

I wanted to love it, but i found it pretty lackluster compared to literally every other roguelike ive put time into. Ill have to see what there is to do in Hades 2 because the game is fun, just lacking.
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
smh
The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG
I basically agree with this take, I think the lack of variety in Hades hurts it a lot despite the core gameplay working really well
I agree but for an extremely different reason, in that I'm extremely against the genre. I'm not disappointed in Hades for it's quality as an action roguelike, I'm disappointed that Supergiant made an action roguelike, and attached such an incredible skin to it.

The game was never disappointing because I knew what the deal was going to be going in, and that didn't change after 20 hours, so no expectations were there to not be met.

I will say the announcement of Hades 2, both being that is was a follow-up to Hades and the one of my favorite studio was making a sequel period, much less to the last game they put out, is probably t #1 most disappointing game announcement of all time.
https://i.ibb.co/Twbb1b6/20240223-211737.jpg
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
Why dont you like action roguelikes?
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
I do not enjoy repeating randomized content in games I have to directly engage with. I want my games to have structured goals with crafter progression and a linear narrative. A game like Hades has a strong narrative, but nothing about actually playing the game is enjoyable to me because I just see it as empty content, I can just watch the sorry on YouTube and will have a better time.

I liked Slay the Spire, but once I beat it with all 3 characters I was done. I beat it, so why keep playing? Same thing happened with Dead Cells, beat the boss on my 3rd ever run and I was done with the game.

I guess it's just how my brain is wired, I know plenty of people disagree with me. I loved Bastion, but if I was given a Bastion level randomizer and was just asked to play I would habe zere interest in it whatsoever.
https://i.ibb.co/Twbb1b6/20240223-211737.jpg
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
So thats just roguelikes in general then, no? I thought you meant you enjoyed a game like Slay the Spire but one like Isaac.

The fact that you can just watch the story for Hades on youtube and have a better time means we could never be friends.
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
Sounds to me like you got more out of Hades than I did. I never even beat Hades.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
Hades isn't a great roguelike but it's a fantastic action game with great characters and writing so I just played it with that mindset and loved it

I love Isaac too, for different reasons, but that game has some serious QoL and aesthetic issues that make it a lot more challenging to play than Hades is
"You're childish. What are you getting? Are you getting strawberry? Ha! That's such a childish flavor, only children eat strawberry."
I will never play Binding of Isaac. Don't like the gameplay, don't like the aesthetics, and don't like that the game won't tell you anything about what you're doing. I'm not into roguelikes in general, but BoI definitely not.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
I definitely agree with the lack of gameplay depth and got bored pretty quick when I got to the grindy part. That said, it was about 20 hours of pretty awesome gameplay before I hit that wall. Nothing wrong with that.
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
I do agree that I find Hades to be limited in the variety of enemies and in its level design. But on the other hand, I find that Hades has enough variety in the weapon and power-up styles to satisfy me.

In my most recent play-through I set up intentional limitations to how I went through my runs, including:
  • Always swapping to the weapon with Dark Thirst
  • Always choosing Boons/Upgrades that were on the Fates list (and prioritizing to get every Duo and Legendary Boon when making choices).
  • Not reusing Keepsakes that were used in previous runs until I cycled through them all.
  • Max leveling the Hidden Weapon Aspects and completing full runs with them.
All of these served basically the same purpose, to force me to not rely on the same strategies each time and make me need to use different playstyles in every run. The repetitiveness of the enemies matters very little when you have to take them on in many different ways because you have a mis-mash of a build. That's probably not going to be fun for everyone, but I really enjoyed it.
Okay, I rolled a 14. What's that mean? Hsu
That you're a cheater. This is a 12-sided die. Chan
I thought the idea was Hades is a "rogue lite" not a "rogue like"

it's lesser on the roguelike stuff and more interested in story/character advancement
while you slept, the world changed
99% of roguelikes are roguelites. Hades isn't too different in that sense from most of the genre. It just has a ton more narrative-based progression.
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
Grand_Kirby posted...
I do agree that I find Hades to be limited in the variety of enemies and in its level design. But on the other hand, I find that Hades has enough variety in the weapon and power-up styles to satisfy me.

In my most recent play-through I set up intentional limitations to how I went through my runs, including:
* Always swapping to the weapon with Dark Thirst
* Always choosing Boons/Upgrades that were on the Fates list (and prioritizing to get every Duo and Legendary Boon when making choices).
* Not reusing Keepsakes that were used in previous runs until I cycled through them all.
* Max leveling the Hidden Weapon Aspects and completing full runs with them.
All of these served basically the same purpose, to force me to not rely on the same strategies each time and make me need to use different playstyles in every run. The repetitiveness of the enemies matters very little when you have to take them on in many different ways because you have a mis-mash of a build. That's probably not going to be fun for everyone, but I really enjoyed it.
This is how I played my first time. I found there was plenty of variety through my 95 hours.
All the stars in the sky are waiting for you.
Kenri posted...
Hades isn't a great roguelike but it's a fantastic action game with great characters and writing so I just played it with that mindset and loved it

I love Isaac too, for different reasons, but that game has some serious QoL and aesthetic issues that make it a lot more challenging to play than Hades is
What QoL issues
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
Grand_Kirby posted...
I do agree that I find Hades to be limited in the variety of enemies and in its level design. But on the other hand, I find that Hades has enough variety in the weapon and power-up styles to satisfy me.
idk, you're talking to a BoI fan
List the ominous stern whisper from the delphic cave within:
They enslave their children's children who make compromise with sin
foolm0r0n posted...
I definitely agree with the lack of gameplay depth and got bored pretty quick when I got to the grindy part. That said, it was about 20 hours of pretty awesome gameplay before I hit that wall. Nothing wrong with that.

Thats true, maybe I just set my expectations too high. I did enjoy it for a time.
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
Grand_Kirby posted...
I do agree that I find Hades to be limited in the variety of enemies and in its level design. But on the other hand, I find that Hades has enough variety in the weapon and power-up styles to satisfy me.

In my most recent play-through I set up intentional limitations to how I went through my runs, including:
* Always swapping to the weapon with Dark Thirst
* Always choosing Boons/Upgrades that were on the Fates list (and prioritizing to get every Duo and Legendary Boon when making choices).
* Not reusing Keepsakes that were used in previous runs until I cycled through them all.
* Max leveling the Hidden Weapon Aspects and completing full runs with them.
All of these served basically the same purpose, to force me to not rely on the same strategies each time and make me need to use different playstyles in every run. The repetitiveness of the enemies matters very little when you have to take them on in many different ways because you have a mis-mash of a build. That's probably not going to be fun for everyone, but I really enjoyed it.
Yeah for a bit I tried only using the dark weapon, going for upgrade i never picked before, etc. but the floors feeling like carbon copies every time made me lose interest pretty quick.
I disagree that the enemies being the same matters little. Its like playing the same opponent in a fighting game. Sure I could rotate characters for a different experience, but if i know how to beat them i know how to beat them and ill quickly grow bored.
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
NFUN posted...
idk, you're talking to a BoI fan
yeah Isaac has all that and more. And despite how many hours ive put in it still provides a challenge.
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
Hades is a good game, but I agree with lack of varity complaints
I don't have much experience with Roguelikes and probably the first one I played was Isaac, so for me it set the bar pretty damn high (and that's considering I only played up to Afterbirth, no the additional 2 DLC)
So when I came to playing Hades...yeah I could notice the lack of variety.

Like, sure, every run is different - you get random boons, can pick different skills, different weapons, can turn up the heat for additional changes.
But at the end of the day - it's still the same 4 areas, not plenty of different rooms layouts, not much enemy variety, not many different bosses (sure it's nice that you can turn on the heat and get a improved boss...but it's still mostly the same)

And even with boons...I find myself favoring certain ones every run, because what can you do - some are worse than others, some are less fitting my playstyle

tldr - It's a good game but not the masterpiece people make it out to be, a solid 8/10 imo
wololo
I actually did play it for like 150 hours so I got quite a bit of playtime out of it but I really hit a WALL with what I felt like I could do with the game, I was just completely done with it afterwards and I don't think I'll ever return to it (maybe after like 10 years or something). Like, it was a good game and I enjoyed it a lot, and the good aspects of the game will stick with me for a while, but it never quite hit that next level for me.
BrohanBlanco posted...
What QoL issues
The biggest one is that the game doesn't tell you what any of its shit does so you have to either memorize it all or have a wiki open in the background
"You're childish. What are you getting? Are you getting strawberry? Ha! That's such a childish flavor, only children eat strawberry."
Paratroopa1 posted...
I actually did play it for like 150 hours so I got quite a bit of playtime out of it but I really hit a WALL with what I felt like I could do with the game, I was just completely done with it afterwards and I don't think I'll ever return to it (maybe after like 10 years or something). Like, it was a good game and I enjoyed it a lot, and the good aspects of the game will stick with me for a while, but it never quite hit that next level for me.
Yeah, I kinda agree with this. Although honestly, the gameplay was satisfying enough to keep me hooked, and I kept pushing to constantly improve my times and push the heat up, until the game became a little less fun at around the 30 heat/120 hour barrier and I've just never had reason to go back. I'd already unlocked literally everything at that point, so I was just done, but 120 hours is a very, very good number out of what's intended to be a short-ish game. Games like this which just feel inherently satisfying are always the ones which keep me wanting to play more. I think intrinsic motivation is definitely what keeps me going in games, rather than actual in-game progression. That said, more variety and more lategame progression in the sequel would be very welcome.
Perhaps the golden rock was inside us all along.
It's funny when you see people review games like this with 100s of hours on Steam and then say it ran out of content and got old too quickly. Modern game design has ruined our expectations and also ruined our ability to enjoy things at a fundamental level.

Compared to this game I've had FAR worse 20 hour experiences (which were still pretty good), so that's all I need to be satisfied. It also became a pretty fun routine for a couple of weeks to do 1 or 2 runs every morning before work. No other recent game has done that for me, so that gets points.

Another thing to consider is that, if you've played an action roguelike before, you're in a minority veteran group of players who are not necessarily the game's audience. I bet 80+% of Hades players had never seriously played a roguelike, and they came to this game due to Supergiant brand awareness or the narrative appeal. This game is absolutely a masterpiece to that specific audience (remember how you felt when you discovered Isaac, but 10x it due to the narrative). The fact that us veterans can still find decent enjoyment in it is a very impressive bonus, but completely unnecessary.

I'm curious what they do with Hades 2, since the game design is now specifically targeting people who have at least 1 roguelike under their belt.
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
It was basically my first action roguelite(/like) so I had no expectations and I ended up loving it.

I can see your points, then again the enemy variety has never been widely praised from what I see. Once you get the handle of things it kinda turns into a musou game where you can plow down enemies without too much thinking and just seeing what cool attacks you can get.
God has heard my soul.
I just wish it had one more floor
You bow to no one, azuarc
I'm still working on winning one (1) run so this is kinda wild to me
New name, new gender, same great Bolo flavor!
She is messy, but she's kind; she is lonely, most of the time
I remember beating the game a few times, but when I realized I had to beat it like fifteen times or whatever for the real ending, I just gave up and watched the ending on youtube.
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005
Kenri posted...
The biggest one is that the game doesn't tell you what any of its shit does so you have to either memorize it all or have a wiki open in the background

Skill issue.

And is it really a roguelike if im not consulting scripture for optimal synergies?
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
foolm0r0n posted...
It's funny when you see people review games like this with 100s of hours on Steam and then say it ran out of content and got old too quickly. Modern game design has ruined our expectations and also ruined our ability to enjoy things at a fundamental level.

Compared to this game I've had FAR worse 20 hour experiences (which were still pretty good), so that's all I need to be satisfied. It also became a pretty fun routine for a couple of weeks to do 1 or 2 runs every morning before work. No other recent game has done that for me, so that gets points.

Another thing to consider is that, if you've played an action roguelike before, you're in a minority veteran group of players who are not necessarily the game's audience. I bet 80+% of Hades players had never seriously played a roguelike, and they came to this game due to Supergiant brand awareness or the narrative appeal. This game is absolutely a masterpiece to that specific audience (remember how you felt when you discovered Isaac, but 10x it due to the narrative). The fact that us veterans can still find decent enjoyment in it is a very impressive bonus, but completely unnecessary.

I'm curious what they do with Hades 2, since the game design is now specifically targeting people who have at least 1 roguelike under their belt.
It came out December 2018, i don't care if their target audience never played a roguelike they know what it is bitch. But that explains the reception this game got, i didnt realize people were like a fan of this studio or even that the Bastion people made this.

It was good for listening to podcasts for 2 weeks but i wanted it to be good for listening to podcasts for weeks to come.
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
Kenri posted...
Hades isn't a great roguelike but it's a fantastic action game with great characters and writing so I just played it with that mindset and loved it
Yeah this is pretty much the way to look at it. I agree that Hades isn't a terribly good roguelike but you're probably somewhere between 20 and 40 hours into it before that really becomes a crippling concern.

As a roguelike it's simply far too lacking on run diversity, and you also ultimately get way too much control over your runs. Like, if you want to get a certain boon loadout for a certain weapon you're able to make it happen like 95% of the time once you have your stuff unlocked, which just further ruins the sense of adaptability and impactful decision-making that all good roguelikes are built on. Really hoping that Hades 2 can address those issues cause if you combine Hades' storytelling and character performances with an actually well-designed roguelike you've got a potential GoaT on your hands.
Let the voice of love take you higher,
With this gathering power, go beyond even time!
None of those issues are real if you up Heat high enough

Like high Heat Hades is legitimately harder to finish than Nethack, people should really try cranking the heat ultra high before saying you don't cede control or that there isn't impactful decisionmaking to it. Especially once you add in Forced Overtime 2, the game becomes wildin' tricky and you have to really make use of everything you get.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Yeah thats true I would just pick the bow with max crit chance and go for Artemis buffs and you can kinda just will it into existence even without the keepsake
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
KanzarisKelshen posted...
None of those issues are real if you up Heat high enough

Like high Heat Hades is legitimately harder to finish than Nethack, people should really try cranking the heat ultra high before saying you don't cede control or that there isn't impactful decisionmaking to it. Especially once you add in Forced Overtime 2, the game becomes wildin' tricky and you have to really make use of everything you get.
I honestly dont like the heat at all, something about selecting my debuffs and limitations is wildly unfun to me. Somehow hard mode or New Game+ are easier for me to swallow.
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
That's fair, it's a psych thing. Picking your handicaps feels meaner than having them picked for you in a lot of ways. I do think, unironically, that the game can't be said to be finished until you win an Extreme Measures 4 run, though. It's such a profoundly exhilarating experience, and effectively the 'hard mode' of the game and not just simple debuffs and limitations.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
BrohanBlanco posted...
came out December 2018, i don't care if their target audience never played a roguelike they know what it is bitch.
Nope. There's nothing a gamer is more out of touch with than the video game audience. It's a 200 bil industry.
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
BoI was my #2 game of the 2010s. I just started playing Hades about two months ago and put in 80 hours since then.

I recommend trying them back to back. I don't know that Hades is a better game, but returning to BoI after that was really jarring was a downer to recognize.

Both games could learn from each other.
O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK!
https://i.imgur.com/OpudFxm.jpg
Im already back doing T. Lost runs like i never left
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
The one thing about hades I thought could've been done better is that it dragged too long to get those story beats. I was fine playing multiple times, I put a ton of hours into it and loved the game, but for example when you hit the first major story beat by beating the game 10 times, did it need to be 10? Why not, say, 5? I think if you reduce that then the whole story picks up. Maybe don't make max friendship with all the gods take as many hearts to get that story beat? Just stuff like that. I def had to look up how to do a couple things that seemed to be entirely random as to whether you got the requisite or not (Like artemis' friendship which afaik is actually luckbased).

Otherwise I did really love the game and played it all the way to the very true end cause I did love the story and didn't get bored with the gameplay, I do think the pact system was a nice way to spice up each run, but I do wish there were more...guaranteed story beats each time you completed a run, rather than like "okay anything this run? No okay let's do another, and another and OH there we go"
I'm a greener egg than the eggs from dr. seuss
Kenri posted...
The biggest one is that the game doesn't tell you what any of its shit does so you have to either memorize it all or have a wiki open in the background

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=836319872
"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3
kevwaffles posted...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=836319872
That's cool. Too bad it's only the PC version and not, say, any of the portable console releases.
"God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto
Isaac's lack of descriptions was a legitimate artistic vision in the original game but Edmund McMillen has said himself that it straight up doesn't work anymore with how many items are in the game - he's said he'd like to see something like that item description mod officially added to the game. But yeah, for now if you're not on PC you're kinda just stuck with the wiki which is a great resource but a pretty shitty way to actually play the game.
Let the voice of love take you higher,
With this gathering power, go beyond even time!
i use this https://tboi.com/
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
paperwarior posted...
That's cool. Too bad it's only the PC version and not, say, any of the portable console releases.

Too bad the portable consoles lost support so they never got Repentance.
"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3
Board 8 » Hades was kind of a letdown