Lurker > Meow1000

Kirby321 posted...

I stand corrected. Even Ulti is asking Ctes to claim lol

Yeah except why did it take him so long.

Kirby321 posted...

Here's the simplest answer: if you were town, you would've full claimed by now instead of dragging this day through the dirt with literally everybody but Ulti asking you to claim or die.

What I find really curious is Ulti is normally claim happy as fuck and is usually the FIRST PERSON in the entire game to demand "claim or die".

This is a total subversion from normal Ulti behavior. Ulti never lets people get away with half assed bullshit like Ctes has claimed.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Now you're just handpicking what fits the current narrative. This wasn't what you found most likely.

I've been sharing paranoia that you're godfather who has been having his vote sealed for quite a long time.

ctesjbuvf posted...

You insisted scum would keep it hidden.

And I also said that when scum doesn't keep it hidden it's usually because they're using it on themselves.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Then more people should tell him to look for scum equity instead of going against host wish of no metagaming.

JC got absolutely murdered in Bloodborne by that kind of argument.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I'm literally not. The ideas are that scum kept their votes away from themselves for 3 days or that I have a role that can discard vote for scanning innocent. Neither is the simplest answer at all.

Like the first thing I said is when scum uses a vote blocker early in a game it's usually on other scum.

Leafeon13N posted...

Or FD is going to blow us all up.

FD could absolutely be an arsonist variant but like there's still plenty of people he hasn't targeted I think?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Also did FD seriously spend time looking at what could possibly fit with a role.

FD has been doing this ALL GAME. This isn't new.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

"We shot at you but Mzero must have taunted us"

Honestly that was immediately how I read it.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Same to you buddy, but I am not interested in pursuing it today, I didn't even expect you to be alive today.

Yeah I'm not setting up anything I'm flat out saying you're Occam's Razor right now.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Sure he does, scum being able to influence the vote is important and now he doesn't need to give it up. And yes he could have just waited until MYLO but maybe he thought this would make him look more like town to reveal this now.

How in god's name does this look like a pro town way to claim.

It's either in that tier of all-time bad fake claims or it's somehow town. There is no in between here.

Ctes really seems like he's setting up to try to call me scum.

Come at me bro.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I mean a lot of this could be easily remedied if you just full claimed from the start, you are not being honest and we don't have any reason to trust you at this point. Hell no one's knows if you even scan guilty. Maybe you are the godfather and had to give up your vote to scan innocent, got scanned and then kept it going out of fear of other investigation until Sbell died.

This is a scenario in which he could be scum and Ulti could be town but.. He really has no reason not to keep giving his vote up?

IfGodCouldDie posted...

You're forgetting the super strong watcher too.

Which was basically a scum power role pretending to be a town power role

changmas posted...

i mean there's theoretically a 50/50 game to be played where if Kirby is certain they're killing you he can JK you and leave himself unguarded

smart? no, but smarter than what he did with ulti tbh

Kirby may have completely broken the game by blocking Ulti though... Even if it was for the wrong reasons.

The claim isn't just convenient, it's more or less claiming to be so powerful that he cannot properly claim today, but the question is what could be have?

We've had 3 protection claims. Has he reacted to any of them? IGCD claimed town killing long ago. If Ctes could kill, why is he letting IGCD live and not just counter claiming vig?

Some kind of niche investigation role that has yet to do anything is essentially the only thing that makes any sense. In that case though, with a claimed cop, doctor, and jk, is it really going to be that strong as to completely dissuade claiming?

He's hinting at being super powerful but I don't know what the power could actually be.

Basically you're continuing to make an argument that has already been asked and answered and it's pretty well just a waste of time at this point.

changmas posted...

it makes absolutely no sense that scum would use that to redirect a scan instead of kill through protection if they could. maybe they're explicitly not allowed to send the factional kill at someone in the redirection/BD, like its a condition of the ability?

Except if scum shot MZero or me last night, they didn't need to fear protection.

On nights 1-3, they feared Watcher.

But really, Ctes has to have one of the most convenient claims I've ever seen.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I mean the topic devolved into like 200 some posts about what could have caused it so I see it as a means to confuse/distract town

Ultimately does nothing though.

You know what's hilarious is that if they're scum then Kirby caught scum Ulti while trying to prove Ulti was town.

A Ctes scum flip nearly confirms a bunch of things.

Ulti scum vote stealer
Red town that scum tried to frame
Death town (Ulti wouldn't fake an innocent scam on non-godfather... Unless they both are but yeah)
MI town that scum is trying to silence

Also more possible evidence: if Ulti is vote stealer, it means he DID target Ctes night 1 like he claimed, and he would've been seen dong it.

TotallyNotMI posted...

That makes more sense to me than scum having a double roleblock/rolecop and a redirect yes.

You'd have to sell me on why Red has any motive at all to tell such a lie. I'm not seeing one.

For the record if Ulti/Ctes are scum I believe the redirect is real.

Scum shooting directly at me or MZero would not have been at any risk of being saved.

Anyways, Ctes' claim is one of those things that looks like one of the worst fakeclaims you've ever seen to the point where you wonder if it might somehow actually be true.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

If the scum roles are all as overpowered as it seems then there might not be a 3rd

If only 4 scum there must be an Indy, though.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Everyone called Ulti town until I yesterday spent forever building a theory that he could have Lopens role and now I am seeing someone feel confident about Ctes/Ulti scum team.

What is even happening.

Reminds me of how I've been ignored it but every comment you guys made the last three days about vote stealer being a ridiculous scum power, but I agree it would be.

Uh

When have I called Ulti town

Death+MI
Death+Red
Ulti+Ctes

Those are the three most likely specific pairs of scum.

Death/Ben
MI/Red

Are likely unpaired.

Who's the third scum in the three scenarios above is what I'm asking myself.

I still find it bonkers how much Chang is arguing it came from town given how it makes absolutely no sense at all.

I'm not humoring any theory that town did a completely nonsensical bus drive last night with Doctor+JK in the game so

changmas posted...

and instead of using that ability to kill you or kirby last night they bus drove red and ctes in the event that Ulti scanned red?

yeah I don't think so

In the event that Kirby blocked Red.

I've been under the belief for a while that MZero was shot intentionally, has just been a matter of figuring out why.

htaeD posted...

Night1 kill was blocked
Night3 make sense as kills to make for scum if scum somehow knew Sbell was a Watcher
That Isquen kill however makes no sense if they had a busdriver.

Isquen was a power hunt. Ulti pretty much flat out said this.

Also I don't believe town bus ever even considers swapping Ctes and Red last night.

Like why would they

changmas posted...

if scum had a bus driver wouldn't blade or kirby or ulti be dead by now? It literally completely nullifies protection abilities used to save people and they could have killed whoever they wanted

if anything I would be more likely to believe someone is hiding a town bus driver claim and they've redirected a couple of the odd kills (like isquen)

Town bus can't exist with Kirby and I.

I suspect the bus drive isn't unlimited use, but scum was too afraid of watcher to go after us with a bus. Anyone watching one of us would still see the bus driver targeting us.

And if Ctes is scum, Ulti is scum.

But that does beg the question of who the F is the last scum in this scenario if there's 5.

Why are we even talking about trackers a day and a half after mass

PunishedBen posted...

Can you explain for me. Is this with redirection, bus driving, or swapping? Because I do think FD is town

Because it suggests for some reason scum wanted things to flip on the two of them. The cop theory works, but another theory also works.

Ulti targets Red. Ctes fires the kill. Third scum busses Red and Ctes.

Even if Kirby blocked Red, the kill is stopped but Red instantly gets lynched for it. With the game at an odd number, that kind of tradeoff doesn't hurt scum.

I give it low odds Ctes and Red are both scum but very high odds one is.

Also a scum vote sealer can both counter Chang by targeting him directly, or be countered by Chang's power when targeting someone else.

To the point where it's as simple as both you and Ulti are scum or neither of you are.

I don't think this ever splits 1-1.

The rest of his theory is logically sound.

ctesjbuvf posted...

And also everyone else had claimed. I didn't want to risk a potential tracker to cost a mislynch on both me and them.

Potential tracker what

ctesjbuvf posted...

MI has a theory or something that requires the scumteam to be exactly Ulti/Ctes/Red where we tied ourselves to each other or it falls apart. Which also then basically ignores everything that happened in the game except last night's actions.

Can that really be made in good faith.

Ulti/You as a team by his logic works, but it likely does not include Red. Red lacks any clear motive to tie himself to that kind of lie.

Unless scum bussed two town members but.. Why? Either the kill or the bus could be blocked.

htaeD posted...

We had another argument that scum didnt want Red to be scanned
We cant be sure Red was swapped with anyone else on any other nights I think.

Regardless, if FD is telling the truth, Ctes/Red must contain a scum.

htaeD posted...

The opening rules say otherwise.
But we dont have anything to suggest it was a busdriver anyway.
Scum have had 'pull actions away from player' roles before

Opening rules are nonsense because they don't take into account special interactions like redirects taking affect before roleblocks unless the redirector themselves is blocked. Taunter and bus driver in no way contradict each other as roles.

The real question is why in god's name would Ctes and Red be the target

The only possible argument would be that one sent the kill and the bus was used on the kill sender to circumvent Kirby.

If FD is town, one of Ctes/Red must be scum.

So to sum it up, a taunter could taunt a kill to themselves, and after that it can be driven off by a bus driver.

The roles don't contradict.

So that's the taunter/bus driver thing.

Taunter supercedes bus driver for obvious reasons. Taunter makes itself the original target. Bus driver changes the final target from person A to person B.

Taunter always acts first. It acts at a different part of the night phase.

Can someone please just sum up all this meta talk so I don't have to bother scrapping through a heap of posts trying to find the small handful that actually say something

What pointless things are we talking about now and should I bother reading them y/n

TotallyNotMI posted...

I am fairly certain you were the lynch leader before the Ben train, red.

Then after it went to peaf for some reason

It was a 3-way tie.

Kirby321 posted...

QED: Death's EoD logic does not line up at all and actively contradicts itself. I see a much greater case for Death to be scum here than a case for Ben to be scum.

Death's EOD was an abomination.