Lurker > Forceful_Dragon

changmas posted...

i mean, we just know one scum doesn't have a renamed role

i don't think we can say for sure if he's an exception or if he proves the role

although JC claims to be a non-renamed self-confirmable town power role so

But that would give us a town power WITH rename (wallz) and a town power without? I don't love the inconsistency.

wallmasterz posted...

fd hadnt done much and I seem to recall at least one if not more people open to his lynch

That's curious since I didn't get any votes d1

##Unvote: Wallz
##Vote: Mzero

let's find out

Enchantress posted...

I hope in such a scenario Red would just shoot Isquen but yeah basically

Yeah that's the part I wasn't ready to say out loud, lol.

Im nearly half convinced that the correct play is lynching MZero and counting on red to do what's right for maximum information gain.

If he's town, scum is idling by waiting for the mislynch.

If he's scum, scum is clearly not sticking their neck out and would prefer to allow a second consecutive scum lynch to occur.

.

And if he's allowed to live and MZero flips town I have a hard time seeing a day 3 that's not dominated by isquen discussion.

If he's allowed to live and MZero flips scum, maybe it's just that easy and we STILL have good reason to suspect isquen day 3?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f97f62f1.jpg

What do we learn when EoD comes and goes with scarcely a whimper?

PunishedBen posted...

Who all is voting for a non-Isquen and thinkins Isquen is town right now?

He hasn't particularly played like town, but I see some elements to his past few posts that vibe with how I've felt in the past when I'm simply vanilla being accused of scum. Granted this is a result of his lackluster play for 2 days and I've never been anything other than obviously innocent, but I can see a world where he really is just pissed off that he's going to be mislynched. And if not he's made a decent performance.

But since I recognize that I simply don't have the votes to put wallz in the ground I'll have to switch at somepoint before EoD.

Oh I was gonna guess Mr. Sparkle.

Anyways the conversation these past hours seems to indicate we were looking at Isquen vs MZero today, why is Corrik in 2nd place? I see Isquen's vote and it's who he voted yesterday (instead of confirmed scum ctes). I suppose it's possible top 2 on day 1 were both scum. And I see JC's vote was "for posterity", but maybe let's actually draw a line in the sand and see where people stand?

red13n posted...

I definitely wish Isquen would engage instead of this.

I'm having a difficult time deciding if the anger feels genuine or not. I would even hesitate to say that the refusal to join DTC does strike me a having been genuine.

Enchantress posted...

I answered this, but the quote Chang posted was Isquen thinking I was claiming something not on the safe list. It doesn't make much sense still, but it's not a perspective slip

Also strangely your quote about hams had more the cadence of a Homer quote.

I just responded with the Superintendent Chalmers image because you gotta think steamed when you read about hams.

But what you actually said was "a large ham....mmmm....large ham...."

Which you'd be more likely to read in Homer's drooling cadence.

.

Incidentally in another post you said you had a crayon in your brain which is ALSO a Homer thing... Do you have something you'd like to confess?

Should we be reading into the fact that there's been next to no pushback?

Granted Ulti is prone to being deceived by flattery and people telling him what he wants to hear (in the case of mafia that they believe he is town) so someone taking a hard "ulti is town" approach especially in light of his normal claimsanity could be viewed as an attempt to pocket Ulti

htaeD posted...

Notably Wallz suggests FD as a special.

Twice in the final minutes he did this. It was with reluctance and literally a "meh" that he went along with the ctes lynch <_<

htaeD posted...

Btw did Ben explain why he spent all of EOD1 making votals and keeping his vote on Mzero?

Yes, it was along the lines of him being fine with anyone but Ulti being lynched at that point and that he would only move his vote to save Ulti. (I'm pretty sure that was it anyways)

We'll just exile you to Shelbyville if we can't stand it anymore ;)

I'm fine with Isquen as the lynch today for the record, I would just be remiss if I wasn't considering all angles, and Isquen being town is one of them. I won't cry myself to sleep if this is a swing and a miss because at the very least it isn't based upon nothing and we stand to learn from the lynch regardless.

Enchantress posted...

We thought Ulti was kidnapped, but he ended up being buried under a pile of old newspapers in his garage

Yes, yes, your Simpsons knowledge is encyclopedic, way to pull out something that references both Tony and Skinner <_<

For the record my own renamed role is also an apt description of my flavor character.

I'd be curious if there is anyone out there who can say "you know what, like wallz my renamed role doesn't really seem to fit my flavor character".

Isquen posted...

Flavor is Momma's Boy. No, it does not tie into my role.

Got it, updated.

In the event that Isquen is telling the truth and he's Momma's Boy (Insert Town Role Here) that still put's Wallz' renamed role at odds with everything else we've seen. Skinner IS a momma's boy so that's an apt description of him. I still don't view "Kidnapper" as an apt description of Fat Tony.

Updated with Isquen's flavor and Lea's day-scan:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6e52960f.png

Have we had an update on how JC purports to be self-confirming?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Did you scan Red, yes or no?

Did the scan return "innocent" (or equivalent) yes or no?

Enchantress posted...

Yes

Yes

From the end of last topic for safekeeping.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80692443

Onwards!

Enchantress posted...

I'd be flabbergasted is Red was scum.

That's the second time you've phrased it along these lines. That's not the same thing as confirming a scan occurred.

Did you scan Red, yes or no?

Did the scan return "innocent" (or equivalent) yes or no?

wallmasterz posted...

Yes.

Thanks, Lea

Anyways it seems like the main points from the last 4~ hours of my head trying to split itself down the middle have been:

-Isquen planted a Skinner breadcrumb.
-Lea made a Skinner reference which Isquen took as a skinner claim (for some reason)
-Therefor Isquen is voting Lea despite the illogic that if Lea was scum she would have stuck to something on the safelist.
-Isquen didn't full claim, not the role or renamed role and merely said he didn't have scanning info.

IF Isquen is town, then I could see him as being "Town Principal" with the ability to jailkeep (put someone in detention), so that would be a potential reason not to want to full claim. But my god was the whole saga a trainwreck. Lea legitimately made many simpsons references and because this one happened to involve his (alleged) flavor it means she's scum?

And IF Isquen is scum then this is a blowup of legendary proportions. Perhaps Skinner was on Isquen's safelist, which prompted the post 900~ breadcrumb. And then when he saw Lea's post he saw an opportunity to make a play where he accuses her of NOT being that role, because if it's on his safelist he knows she can't be. Maybe?

It's hard to find both town and scum equity behind such a tactic. I guess the most obvious scum logic is "well people are voting me so I have to say something", but I'm gonna have to go back to Lea's ham reference and see if Isquen said anything more at the time.

.

Meanwhile the case against MZero is that other than toss my name out a few times he hasn't really seemed to scumhunt, is that about the size of it?

wallmasterz posted...

Last game it was FD in BCTs holiday mafia.

For the record I was not obvious. I was just tired of having to put in 1000% more effort just for people to be convinced I'm town. It was bullshit. If I'm not deep in the logs and overanalyzing shit "omg fd is scum he doesn't even care about this game, he feels off" and I don't see anyone else being held to that standard. So I said my piece that game and simply wasn't going to commit dozens of hours to prevent my mislynch like i've had to do so many other times.

Skimming*
This game*

Zzz

Just skinning between the stabbing head pain to confirm that I've noticed Lea make reference to probably a dozen different characters/quotes so far this have. Skinner was an obvious one, but not the only one.

I chalked that up to Lea having fun with the theme

Obellisk posted...

So while some might want to say I'm hung up on ulti, it's more I feel that he has to be linked to wallz.

I have trouble seeing the connection between ulti and wallz if both are scum personally. If I'm right about wallz then he is actually a kidnapper (scum neighborizer~) and I don't know why he would waste the action on Ulti if they are scummates. Presumably if he were scum then Ulti would have had some sort of plan with whatever the hell his day 1 claim was, and having to immediately clarify his "claim" to vanilla based upon a neighbor + tracker combo would be a weird direction to take that plan.

Anyways i'm fighting off a migraine this morning (already thrown up once from it) so i'll be AWOL for awhile trying to sleep it off.

htaeD posted...

When you posted this, I thought you were saying his "I am not a simpson" comment was stated in the same post as the clarification answer you mention here.

I think that was supposed to say "the discussion after was..." but the after is missing <_<

Citations:
T1 P257
T1 P269
T1 P271

Wallz KNEW the flavor split when he answered that miller question.

And he knew because he's scum.

htaeD posted...

FD I dont know why you are saying its unprompted when 'I am not a simpson' should be a logical answer to the question 'are you a member of the simpson family?'.

Are you gaslighting me? That's NOT the order things happened.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Wallz, let me ask you a question too. Do you believe yourself to be miller-ish in this game?

wallmasterz posted...

I have never seen a Simpsons ep with my character in it, so I dont know just how miller-ish or not is my flavor. Im not a Simpson.

My role is harmless but has a name that suggests otherwise. I do think my flavor and role both work as foils to a potential flavor or role cop.

Obellisk posted...

not a simpson or not a simpson character?

he clarified he was not a Simpson family member BEFORE the clarifying question was asked.

red13n posted...

Hes pretty much spent the entire game talking about flavor

Wallz said "I am not a simpson" unprompted before we knew the flavor split.

Wallz multiple times stated what appeared to be reason why town power shouldn't target ulti. And then targeted Ulti with his town power.

Yeah the genesis of that was me looking at potential role discrepancies, but that isn't nothing.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I checked it like 3 times what's it supposed to be?

I never voted death, I voted and then subsequently unvoted Ulti

UltimaterializerX posted...

The post I replied to with was the worst one made today by a mile. Im like actively trying to avoid suspecting the guy every game but that was so bad. If I had a gun I would shoot him and thats where my vote is likeliest to end up before I bounce. Was trying to avoid revealing this to reactions from others first but hey.

Just say 'Isquen'.

Instead I started from the beginning of day 2 looking for this post for no reason. Post 63 of this topic for anyone curious.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Death (ulti), Ben, (Fd)

Still incorrect

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Yeah, not something you should be proud of

UltimaterializerX posted...

Oh that is absolutely something Im proud of.

These are not mutually exclusive statements.

You do a lot of things you shouldn't.

Yeah, not something you should be proud of

And what would you have done if he was really just a goofy 'randomly targets someone but nothing actually happens' role?

I loved the part where you didn't give wallz a chance to make an authentic response on his own behalf.

Obellisk posted...

Was it wallz that neighbored me last game and he was scum? and then red vigged me.

Wallz was the godfather neighborizer. MZero was the town Vigil.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c979c231.jpg

And all the other stuff?

Anyways that's what I've got for now. I would have liked an additional data point to consider from red, but lol at red providing useful information when I ask for it.

Obellisk posted...

now make it make sense that wallz and ulti are actually scum together.

I don't see that being possible. It could be neither of them, or it could be one of them, but both doesn't feel possible.

Anyways onto more Wallz posts:

The first half of T2 was mostly him being annoyed that people were "protecting" isquen from the pressure he and ctes were putting down.

Then T2P292 we have:

wallmasterz posted...

I cant remember for sure if I was before death but I think I was, I also mentioned thinking there could be a flavor cop or a role cop because my role name didnt match my benign role.

Another reference to having a scary role name. This is at least with consistent with Kidnapper.

T2P366

wallmasterz posted...

Someone suggested ulti should indicate who he plans to visit tonight. That still seems like a good idea

wallmasterz posted...

My paranoid thought all d1 is ulti is scum bomb and intentionally kept his role explanation vague + unsatisfying in hopes of drawing a town tracker or cop. Probably unlikely, but something is off for sure

Ulti is maybe a scum bomb trying to draw a town scan? Let's town scan him!

>_>

wallmasterz posted...

I dont want to special Corrik.

What has FD done other than spreadsheet talk. Admittedly, he makes nice spreadsheets.

wallmasterz posted...

lets get a counter going. FD, someone.

I really dont like the Corrik voters and prefer the ulti voters but I dont want to lynch ulti

And then he threw out my name twice right at the end :(

That doesn't mean anything about his role, but when he didn't get the special he wanted we got his "meh" ctes vote instead.

I may have started down this path based upon lol renamed role meta, but that's a few things clicking into place now during the re-read.

changmas posted...

I think there was some sort of discussion that made it reasonable for him to say he wasn't a simpson at the time.

The discussion was "did you mean you weren't in the TV show simpsons or did you mean you weren't a member of the Simpsons family" to which he clarified that his character IS from the show, but is not a Simpson.

But that's still a detail that he decided to provide completely unprompted. I didn't notice it my first time through, but now that we know the mafia are called Simpson that feels like a slip.

Then we have this exchange. T2P57

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not sure at all what ultis logic is. Being seen not murdering someone is usually the opposite of damning. Pretty sure this is fake in some capacity.

T2P59

wallmasterz posted...

100% agree with this. I believe he wants to draw a scan, or possibly other town power, which is why he brought it up then tried to keep what should be an obvious detail ambiguous

So he agrees with red that Ulti seemed to just be trying to draw a target from town power... And then he went on to target him with his supposed town power?

Corrik7 posted...

The problem to me is kidnapper generally removes someone from the night completely. He is saying it was a neighborizer and follower but isn't it just more likely it was a kidnap and thus ulti was unable to move or be targeted. Hence ulti didn't move? My question to ulti would have been if he tried to move but he says he is vanilla now. My next question would have been if wallz knew he couldn't move supposedly anymore before coming here to claim.

The reason this concerns me is because if it's actually a normal kidnap then it doesn't confirm ulti couldn't have gone somewhere if he wanted to like him saying he tracked him nowhere suggests. If he tracked him nowhere, ulti looks to be town. Unlikely he didn't move night 1 if scum.

But if he is lying about details then that is no longer in ultis favor and my question becomes why lie about this detail.

MafiaU just makes it seem more like a scum-themed neighborizer that sometimes has the option to murder:
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Kidnapper

Regardless, Ulti apparently freely offered up in the chat that he was actually vanilla without being pressed so the bit about having a Track could simply be something Wallz tacked on after the fact.

T1P57

wallmasterz posted...

If I saw my flavor and role without the alignment next to it I wouldve thought Im scum.

Ultis claim also falls into this kinda miller territory. I dont have a strong feeling about Ulti yet other than knowing I dont want to spend another day 1 hyper focused on Ultis role.

T1P268 !!

wallmasterz posted...

I have never seen a Simpsons ep with my character in it, so I dont know just how miller-ish or not is my flavor. Im not a Simpson.

My role is harmless but has a name that suggests otherwise. I do think my flavor and role both work as foils to a potential flavor or role cop.

Why did wallz feel the need to include this?

T1P290

wallmasterz posted...

Being a literal member of the Springfield mafia.

T1P294

wallmasterz posted...

If theres a town flavor cop they dont know the split right now either, so I fail to see your point

I am Fat Tony, boss of the Springfield mafia. Does being mafia sound like town flavor or mafia flavor

I'll check. but this is the clarified claim T3 P306

wallmasterz posted...

I am Fat Tony, town kidnapper. I am kidnapper in name only, and my role actually works as a one-night neighborizer and tracker. My role pm paints it as Tony kidnapping another player to interrogate them and then letting them go, but following them. As of d2 starting I cannot continue chatting with Ulti, tracking Ulti or neighbor anyone new in future nights. I am essentially vanilla now.