Lurker > MariaTaylor

chikage is very cool. I highly recommend it.

I will say this... the most fun I've EVER had was when I did a gun only run and when I did an arcane tool only run. those things fundamentally change how you play the game and they give you a huge and new appreciation for the level of quality that the design team put into this project.

not only because these runs are possible, but because of how your experience with the game can give you an edge while you're still forced to adapt to an entirely new style of play. this speaks mostly to the arcane run; each of the sub weapons are designed to have certain advantages and disadvantages. through the run I found myself swapping between different tools often to use whatever the situation required. it was actually a lot more diverse, skill intense, and engaging than a normal weapon run because with a normal weapon run I just spam R1 with my weapon most often. or whatever the optimal combo is based on my moveset. for gun only; this is just fun because it increases the level of challenge in ways that are different from a normal run. it's all about pushing yourself to the limits and can turn each boss battle into a test of endurance AND skill rather than just skill. yeah dodging paarl's attacks and killing him quickly can be difficult. but imagine having to dodge his attacks over and over again while slowly whittling away at his health with a gun. and each time you get hit that causes you to need to use a blood vial to heal yourself... which cuts into your ammo supply.

anyway I would probably not recommend either of those runs for a new player but there's definitely good halfway points. you can do a bloodtinge character and work your way up to using the chikage and evelyn. chikage is one of THE optimized weapons in the game so you do eventually become a badass. you'll likely get very good at parrying but who knows, maybe not. similarly you can do an arcane based character who just uses normal weapons and scales them off of the arcane stat. unfortunately this doesn't feel TOO different from a normal run but it is still a somewhat unique experience -- particularly if you do get your hands on the hunter tools and start experimenting with them to familiarize yourself with each. although I will say there are some tools I NEVER used or appreciated before doing a very strict 'arcane tools only' run.
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saw spear, rifle spear, reitterpallasch are in the category of weapons that I found myself surprised by how much I liked them. they all seem like pretty "simple" concepts for weapons so it felt like they wouldn't really be too special. but once I started using them I fell in love with the movesets. saw spear especially, for a long time I had this idea that it would be the same as the save cleaver because I was expecting a lazy Dark Souls style moveset cut and paste. but actually it's different enough to really be its own thing and it's definitely superior to the saw cleaver. both are great, though.

whirligig saw I think you mentioned using already. it's definitely another top tier one in terms of "feel."

burial blade is "fun" but I don't consider it "viable" for PvE. some aspects of the moveset are a bit too clunky which is pretty sad.
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I liked Tonitrus the first time I experimented with it, but the novelty wears off very fast. it is a powerful weapon but the moveset is SO boring I could not continue to use it. probably my least favorite moveset in the game.
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if drak posts a female spinda waifu in this topic I will draw male salamence
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I guess for emphasis I should have said

synergy picks will FINALLY be gone.

the fact that it is not being immediately removed is still an insult to the human race, though. this post more or less confirms that they know it must be removed. they have known for over a month that EVERYONE hates it. and yet despite the fact that the game is being patched soon they STILL won't fix it until the next patch after that.

I would rejoin this game just so I could quit again over how stupid this is.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/6ywfxc/anyone_else_tired_of_auctioneer_book_wyrm/dmrdwbo/

synergy picks will be gone. not with the constructed nerf patch, but with whatever patch comes after that.
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also this sounds like a job for @Drakeryn
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the correct choice is Spinda for all
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based on the current projected path I'm in the perfect position to have a terrible storm here but still be expected to go about my normal duties with no interruption.

man this is not what I meant when I said I wanted it to miss me.
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what do you guys think?
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FFDragon posted...

For these rounds it will take both of us missing, which is still highly possible.

I'm unavailable more often than I'm available

literally on any day when you're not able to save, that means the odds favor me also not being able to save

something tells me Ultimecia is not going to win this thing...
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aw yeah looks like Ultimecia survived another day

I feel like one of these times when I'm unavailable for 7+ hours in the middle of the day she is going to die, though.
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yeah that is my general understanding too. just wasn't sure if there was a more complex answer. for the record, I am looking for the most complex and complete answer possible. I assume if one exists there might be at least one person on board 8 who has a solid understanding of it.
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hmm also here's a question that someone might be able to answer for me

if I run for 2 minutes, stop for 1 minute, and then run 2 more minutes for a total distance of X

how does this compare to me walking a total distance of X without stopping?

in terms of pros and cons? like, what are the differences that will result from doing these two different forms of 'exercise'?
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agreed. it helps that I can't get any real people to even look at me, much less make eye contact.......
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POV stuff in general is pretty good. it's one of the staples of my current porn diet. I'm typically not interested in anything bigger than one on one, aside from maybe some threesome stuff (usually if it appeals to me in another niche way like if it's something specific and taboo). so yeah I guess it's possible that adding more people is a drawback that would make it seem more weird.

haven't tried full 'VR' mode so I guess the experience might vary.
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1.4 mile
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light exercise
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Dantezoid posted...

I moved the last if my shit out if this apartment and cleaned it, I think that counts

oh if that counts I just finished re-arranging my room too

I got a free TV like a week ago and I've been too busy/too tired to even open the box until today. used that as a good excuse to finish unpacking the rest of my stuff and putting my boxes and things where they needed to go. overall took around 30-40 minutes so probably a decent "work out"?
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legal
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what are you cosplaying as?
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HeeCawRoo posted...

does it have to be on purpose

I don't care

this topic is to track my own progress. you guys can do whatever you want!
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1 mile, and then 1 mile again
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I got off to a slow start this morning, but when I decided to sleep in it came with the caveat that I would DEFINITELY exercise once I got up. thankfully, I was able to live up to that promise. just finished what will hopefully be me new "daily" light exercise routine. and I still have about 30 minutes to spare before I REALLY need to worry about going anywhere.

SeabassDebeste posted...

also going to post here every time i walk over 0.5 miles in a row, so prepare yourself!!!

oh man not sure if I should do this or not. I usually walk a ton every day. might be worth it though. if we're both doing that then this topic would definitely never purge.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

At least a dozen, but none as insane as this one. The hurricane force winds extend out about half a Florida in length. That's insanity. I live only a mile and a half or so from the water, too.

you should probably go somewhere that is not so close to the water
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you can be vague or specific, I don't really care

I'm more likely to be vague

planning on starting to track my progress tomorrow morning
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what I'd do is give Stonehill Defender access to only the neutral pool of cards. this would prevent him from seeing play in constructed, but he already doesn't. and he would definitely still be played in arena because a taunt that generates other taunts is really, really good. and his statline is good to slow down games for control decks in arena.

this would have two effects
1. stonehill defender would be equally good in EVERY class
2. your ability to play around stonehill defender generation would be more refined, because the pool of cards he has access to would be smaller
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yep! I myself was pretty high on discover when it wasn't completely overused. I still prefer it over random generation a la babbling book/cabalist's tome/jeweled maccaw. I begrudgingly run the maccaw in my Hunter deck but what I'd honestly prefer is just some legitimate card draw. conversely, I actually like running stitched tracker because it feels like while there is a random element to the outcome of the card it's another form of "card draw" that leads to variance and decision making.

Karazhan saw the release of two of my favorite cards, Ivory Knight and Curator. Ivory Knight is probably one of the better examples of Discover that has existed. Curator is unrelated to the discussion but it's still probably my favorite card design overall.

I can honestly say I don't think I'm really fed up with Discover yet either. although there are some cases where it's implemented a bit poorly. Stonehill Defender is the prime example of this. not only is the pool of cards he has access to insanely large, but the pool varies based on which class plays him. and he has an obnoxious stat line that is good at slowing down games. particularly in arena, I consider this to be among the cards that is on the verge of being problematic. I wouldn't want it to get removed, though. more like, I wish it had just been balanced or designed differently.
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dowolf posted...

my problem is when someone takes something they're struggling with and, rather than either choosing to get better or deciding that it's not worth their time -- which is fine! -- they decide to blame the game.

but whatever.

I'm not struggling, though. I was doing fine in arena. better than have ever done before. I just had problems with certain aspects of arena. I was hopeful that blizzard might fix these issues. then I discovered that blizzard actually intentionally created these issues and does not see them as issues. obviously if the person designing the game and my idea of what I want a game to be are totally different then there's no reason for me to continue playing it. I don't know where you're getting the idea of "blame" from. if blizzard went back to the previous draft policy and my winrate went back down as a result then I would be happier. this has nothing to do with me "blaming" blizzard for me losing. once again you are completely jumping to conclusions here. stop projecting beliefs onto me for the sake of making yourself feel superior and read what I have actually posted.

trdl23 posted...

I just don't take the game seriously. Accept that it's really competitive dice rolling with some skill-based elements and decide whether you can enjoy that.

I can and did for quite some time! but the current draft policy seems to skew things more heavily in favor of rng over skill. past the point that I'm willing to deal with. the realization that this change was intentional on the part of blizzard, rather than my assumption that it happened accidentally because of the new cards, caused me to step away from the game.
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dowolf posted...

You are starting with a conclusion -- that there is no skill in Arena -- and are throwing out pretty much meaningless numbers and stats to back that up.

no. I had bad experience with the game. this led me to the conclusion that I didn't want to play anymore. that's pretty much the end of the story. it's not anymore complicated than that. turbopuns asked me to elaborate on my thoughts and so I did. yeah, no fucking shit the numbers are meaningless. they are vague examples to demonstrate the overall point I'm trying to make.

you are the one who is incorrectly assuming that my conclusion is inherently derived from these arbitrary numbers. something that is obviously not the case. when I, myself, said that the numbers are arbitrary. I don't even know what the point of you jumping into this discussion is, honestly. like you somehow think if you """""prove"""" my """""math""""" wrong I'll somehow have to admit that I really did have fun with the game, even though I did not.

dowolf posted...

If this bothers you, perhaps you shouldn't be playing card games.

yes, the specific draft policy of this specific game bothers me. that's why I will not continue playing it. glad you finally caught up with, you know, the overall point of my entire post that I first made at the start of this very discussion.
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bng_mmmk posted...

What win % do you say a card should be totally removed?

If Bonemare wins 70% of the time and you cut it, will people start complaining about the 67% winning cards? Then the 63% winning cards? Will cards that aren't as good just increase in their winning % once you remove the top performing cards?

a card should be removed if it can single handedly defeat an entire deck, if it drives the winrate of a specific class so high that this class dominates the meta, if the card does not fit in the arena format due to logistical reasons, or if it significantly hampers the ability of a given class to perform in arena that it becomes unplayable in the meta

frost lich jaina is a good example of type A
forgotten torch was a great example of type B and this was handled correctly
quests are a good example of type C and were not included for this reason
dead man's hand is a good example of type D

as for your earlier question of how drafting ONE bad card can ruin a deck. it can't. the issue is that warrior for example has so many type D cards that in a given draft you're far more likely to pull a dead draw or multiple dead draws than with any other class. this makes warrior have a built in disadvantage against every other class in the meta. or, even before getting to dead draws, think of it similar to what makes Frost Lich Jaina difficult to play against. once her hero power has activated then any 1 health minion, or minion that can be traded down to 1 health, becomes unplayable. this hampers the draw RNG of the person playing against frost lich jaina and can turn their draws into dead draws before the cards are even played.

the effect here is similar. if warrior has more UNPLAYABLE cards than any other class, then they're more likely to get a choice between 2 cards instead of 3 cards, or even forced to pick 1 card because you're given 2 outright bad options. I don't think I need to explain at length why being given 2 good choices or no good choices is worse than being given 3 good choices.
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dowolf posted...

This is simply wrong.

no it's not. it's an example based on experimental data gathered in 200 matches I just played in the current arena meta. unless you're saying reality is wrong then, no, it's not wrong. this is an accurate impression of the current arena meta as I've just experienced it.

dowolf posted...

Variance does not affect the mean.

cool? not sure how this relates to the part you quoted.
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thinking about it, it's far worse than what I described above. because of the high deck variance insanity, only players with absolutely top tier decks can thrive at 10+ wins. so while it might be possible to go 10-0 with an average deck, you will quickly get slaughtered down to 10-3. most of the decks at 10-0 and above are going to be THE top tier decks (IN TERMS OF QUALITY) competing against each other. this is completely independent of player skill. a low skill player with a top 5% deck will go 10-3 or 11-3 every time. a high skill player with a top 5% deck is the only one with good odds to go 12-0, 12-2, or even 12-1. this means that the skill gap is incredibly, incredibly narrow.

your draft luck: determines whether you fall in the 1-9 range or the 10-12 range
if 1-9: your draw RNG and who you get matched against determines how far you make it along this point. in the absolute luckiest case you can make it to 10-0 and then get pushed down to 10-3 mercilessly by opponents with deck quality that completely overpowers you. any match in the 1-9 range is just as likely to be an auto loss as an auto win. most of the time it will be simple curvestone.
if 10-12: this is the only place where the skill gap exists. IF you are lucky enough to draft a deck that has a chance to go 10-12 wins, then your skill determines where you fall along the 10-12 curve.

so in 95% of runs your placement is determined by draft or draw RNG. in 5% of runs your placement is determined by your skill, but only because you had a good enough draft RNG to get far enough to where it matters.

I've very often been a defender of hearthstone as a game where your skill will matter over a large number of games, even if there is a high level of RNG in one individual game. this is still the case in constructed. however, Arena has very clearly been broken. they actually changed the mode to make it so RNG will be the larger determining factor over a large number games. why they would do that, I have no idea.
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So for my ideal arena meta, if you're a good player, the challenge rating of your matches should be something like this

50/55/60/64/69/72/74/75/76/76/77/78

It's possible to go 12-0 but your matches will get progressively harder the further you go into the draft. The quality of your deck will sometimes prevent you from having a chance at making this kind of run, but in the end it's always going to come down to luck. In the runs where someone has a really good deck, this is the curve they should expect to see when going 12-0.


THIS IS WHAT THE CURRENT CHALLENGE RATING CURVE LOOKS LIKE

50/88/87/50/50/91/50/50/50/89/50/50

where those high numbers are arbitrarily placed and could just show up anywhere on the curve. sometimes you'll get fewer and will luck into a 12 win run with a mediocre deck. sometimes you'll get more and will luck into an early run termination despite having a really good deck.
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so the problem directly stems from the fact that hearthstones player base is big enough to create a situation where even with low offer rates, insane decks are being REGULARLY drafted and put into the arena match making pool.

95% of the time you will draft a deck in the 67-69 range

Some outliers will draft decks as low as the the 60-63 range
Some outliers will draft decks in the 73+ range, apparently as high as 80 or above in some cases

Okay so what does this mean exactly?

1. The opponent you face a 0-0 or the opponent you face at 6-2 are statistically likely to not be all that different. If most players in the pool have decks within the same range this makes every match from 1 to 12 feel exactly the same. There's no sense that matches get harder or that you're facing progressively higher decks. Except...

2. Player B, who drafts the 73+ deck, will now completely godstomp the rest of the field and walk to victory without stopping. This means progressively insane decks will PERSIST in the meta, while the average decks are killed off. Either through bad play or bad luck.

This means that your chance of facing an INSANE deck at 0-0 is relatively high, because of the high deck variance in the meta. I'm not likely to have an insane deck, but there's enough players out there that have one that it's reasonable that I might face somebody with one even at low wins. Furthermore, if you play with a high level of skill and progress, you won't see your opponents progressively getting more challenging. Instead what you'll see is a series of games that come down to draw RNG because of similar deck quality, where your skill MIGHT matter but only in cases where your draw RNG is relatively even. And, unfortunately, you'll just walk into a crazy deck and get slaughtered about 40% of the time.

That's not all. The 40% number is based off of my OWN statistics, and I'm an average arena player. For a more skilled player they will be going deeper into runs more frequently. This will make them even MORE likely to face insane decks as they get to higher matches. Rather than the steady curve of ramping up against opponents on a similar powerlevel you simply crapshoot against a field where your first and your last match have good odds to feel exactly the same, but you can additionally lose any given game along the road by pure dumb bad luck. And if you are a good player you are PUNISHED because you eventually will get fed to luckier players that just happened to draft insane decks.

So how can you guarantee a better success rate in this kind of arena meta? Actually... you can't. The only way to guarantee a high number of wins on any given run is to draft an insane deck. This will happen about 5% of the time, with no input from yourself. It just happens or it doesn't. Because the good cards are all locked behind reduced draft rates.
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certain cards are problematic and should not exist in the arena format. reducing the draft rate does not fix the problem. it only causes these cards to be even more impactful when they are drafted. they removed cards from the arena draft pool in the past before and it had a GREAT impact on the arena meta for a time. they tried the strategy of adjusting draft rates, apparently since july, and we've seen the effects. they have resulted in the incredibly frustrating and unfun high deck variance meta.

not sure how I need to say anything more than that. we can literally see direct evidence that this policy does not work. we're seeing it right now. I've seen it over the last 25 runs that I played. I continued to play, because I hadn't realize they had done this intentionally. I thought it was an issue that was on their radar and they might be thinking about how to fix it. now I know that is not the case. now I know they have done it intentionally and this is their idea of how arena should work. that's fine if they think that, but I disagree. I'm not going to play arena as long as it's like this. and if I'm not playing arena then I'm not playing hearthstone.
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golbez
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well, there's only one character I care about saving and after that I generally give away my saves for free. I told lefty that if there's someone he wants me to save he should ask me before someone else does. if that counts as rallying then I guess I was rallied, yeah.

/shrug
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oh sorry

lefty told me to save golbez, I assumed he wouldn't ask me unless I could save again
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golbez
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bng_mmmk posted...

I'm kind of lost as to your point on the whole "the best thing about arena right now is the direct result of a harmful policy" part. What does that mean? The best thing is not actually a good thing? Or the harmful policy isn't actually all that harmful?

it's a nuanced issue. the policy has created both good and bad results. the problem is that blizzard views the bad results as also being good and doesn't seem to have any plan or intention to fix them.

bng_mmmk posted...

And, theoretically, even if they normalize the win percentage, isn't that only saying that an average player would have a 50% win rate? Or do you feel that no matter what, the most knowledgeable and experienced players cannot possibly hope for a win rate above 50%?

this isn't actually the issue at hand. it's really complicated though and I'm not sure I even care enough to explain it at this point. if you're having fun with the game then enjoy yourself. it doesn't really bother me either way. I just personally am not going to be able to enjoy it anymore, so I will personally not play the game anymore.

I wouldn't advocate for anyone else to do something just because of my personal opinion
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how long until you engage in some pokeplay
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Ultimecia
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so yeah I spent a good day or so thinking about it and I think I will be stopping my "daily" arena runs, and probably quitting hearthstone all together. it's one thing to be in a position of hope, wondering if maybe the state of arena might be improved based on changes they could potentially announce in an upcoming update. granted, my expectations were pretty low. I imagined they would probably not announce any update or change to arena. my idea was that I'd simply stop playing until the synergy pool was removed. however, given what I learned yesterday, it has fundamentally changed my view of the game.

A. the best thing about arena right now, the heightened class diversity, is the DIRECT result of a harmful policy put in place to normalize all win rates as close to 50%. literally intentionally turning the game into a coin flip.

B. the worst thing about arena right now is not an issue that the HS devs have been thinking about how to fix. quite the opposite. it is a DIRECT result of a policy they intentionally implemented to make arena this way. and based on the comments in the developer interview they seem to think this is a GOOD thing and that it's working as intended.

no thanks. I'll be finding something else to play. I can't say for certain that I'll NEVER come back to hearthstone but this feels very much like an indefinite hiatus.
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Fa Mulan
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wasn't planning on it!
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I searched myself a few times. was surprised none of my huge posts from my writing project(s) came up. unless there is a text size limit for what gets archived or what can be given as a random post.
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Judy Hopps
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hey sometimes there's good odds and you still whiff!

but yeah the chance of me writing an update during the week is highest on tuesday evening. unfortunately it did not come to pass. we may have to wait for the weekend again.
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aladdin
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