Lurker > Lopen

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

This is a Lie Scare is on my Scum list

It shouldn't be a list

It should be you shouting to the heavens for Scare's head, and then a bunch of distant seconds

You haven't even really built a case on Scare, just said you think he's scum and then went into what you'd do as King.

Highly improbable. You've had years and years to learn. You're not going to make a giant leap in one game like that. I only mention last game a lot because it's fresh in our memories and has a very clear example of you just thinking something makes no sense and just attaching to it and tunneling on it, despite all sorts of good reasons not to. The fact that you don't even have Scare as your conclusive #1 scum read just adds to that. If you're really thinking it's that dumb to lynch the cop claim, you're relentlessly on him, because we all know Scare isn't dumb.

I think you're calmer and dare I say more analytical and less emotional this game because you know who the scum and town are. It does not fit with my viewpoint of what a town Sultan looks like.

Okay I'm now no longer very town leaning on Plum

Dude has like 12 scum lists to digest. Who cares about kingmaker rules-- find who is scum, find king who is town and suspects scum.

Literally no reason to make Sultan king unless you're dead certain the scum team is Lopen Scare Han Red you can just make SBell king who has those same people in his list and is confirmed town. Why not just pick SBell? Because you're paranoid he might be Godfather? Give me a break.

I'd expect an analytical player like Plum to have a field day trying to parse those 12 lists and trying to make some new suspects based on that. Instead he's leaning into the paranoia I said I expect him to have when he's overwhelmed-- I think Plum has enough respect for me as a player to be trying to avoid my eyes specifically, and is savvy enough to read into my take on him and lean into it thinking that would let him coast with me for the rest of the game because he knows it would confirm me "right."

And then he votes for a player I think is scum. Yeah. No.

Sbell if you swap Scare for Sultan on your list I'll support your kingdom because I think your list is really solid other than that (and me, but you know, whatever, I'll deal). I know you think Sultan is town, but really contrast how calmly he's playing this game-- look at the personality he's showing us.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I remember him going apeshit about Corrik being scum.

That's what I said

He has done no such thing to Scare here. Just called him dumb

Ouch.

red13n posted...

Again you are making the argument "X guy doesnt do Y"

when we know X did Y.

I'm not saying X guy doesn't do Y.

I'm saying we know X < Y and you're arguing X < Y does not mean X < Y + 2.

Like you could give me alternate hypothetical universe where Tidus is fakeclaiming cop and I could see that exact same thing happening. You don't get to put primary suspicion on the guy your role said was innocent and claim anything is out of bounds for dumb moves. I've seen consistency in fake claims go awry with much more experienced players than Tidus, to be sure.

And you say "well he'd consult with his scumteam and they'd help remove inconsistency" but why assume that for an on the spot claim done under some pressure. I'm pretty sure in Psych SBell got peeved because Tidus just claimed Juliet O'hara as vanilla when SBell wanted to use it.

red13n posted...

This is literally just proven untrue at this point unless I'm misreading this?

I'm saying the standards Tidus failed to live up to are much lower than scum not contradicting themselves in a panic'd fake claim.

red13n posted...

Your problem isn't going down the WIFOM rabbit hole. Scum knows this shit. When scum makes a fake claim, they are going to check what they've said and then make it add up because why the hell not.

Scum, especially newer scum, isn't going to contradict something so obvious.

Cop, especially newer Cop, isn't going to contradict something so obvious as their freakin scan says that this guy should be trusted.

Here's another question for you IGCD

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Damn, wish that hadn't of happened.

This was the only post you made yesterday after execution. Nothing about Scare being an idiot or how dumb it was to lynch the cop.

But you're going full throttle on it today. Why?

ScareChan posted...

That's what Lopen did when he did ##End. There was like a 10 minute window and that was it

To be fair I could see why he'd be confused since I ##Ended with about 10 minutes left in day anyway.

I also thought ##End was stronger because I wanted the day to just end instantly for emphasis (hence why I was saying "shut up no modkills") but y'all got your twilight anyway.

Here's another question IGCD

Like you're kinda echoing Sultan's sentiments-- but do you think it's a strange look for him to lord over us about it? I feel like Sultan as town is generally more like, humble than this. When he flipped out about his pineapple last game he wasn't saying Corrik was obvious scum who had gotten caught by not revealing his pineapple, he was sorta like, panic mode. I feel like he should be going full conspiracy mode on Scare, not saying people are dumb. He should be wanting us to kill Scare and ignoring logic to do so.

This reaction isn't in character for Sultan to me-- the whole game hasn't really been. He has too much confidence about stuff. It's unbecoming.

Kirby321 posted...

Which implies to me that the twilight period ensures we get a full 48 hours to talk, no matter what the King wants.

I think if the king says end there is a brief twilight period, but not the full 48 hours

Kirby321 posted...

... Is IGCD usually this bloodthirsty? I'm just gonna assume yes...

No IGCD is usually a mopey lump. That's why I wanted the crown on him-- I thought it would make him more powerful than we could possibly imagine.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

No. On your reign I expected you to stick to your word, you let her walk all over you, had I been in your position I would have axed her immediately because of the blatant disrespect for the crown.

Tidus blatantly refused commands from Scare though. Is it really that different?

Heck I think Tidus disrespected the game with that fakeclaim. You can't pull scans out of your ass and have an innocent scan on your #1 suspect. It doesn't make any sense.

(Yes I know it wasn't a fakeclaim, but assume we don't know his flip-- I don't want to dignify a claim that bad with an extension of life. That's cowardly play.)

Also Sbell I'm willing to vote you today but I don't think your call on Scare is correct. I don't think scum king Scare is using his lynch on Tidus in any circumstance, even if he is a power role-- he'd lynch players who will solve the game without use of a power role. I think he'd lynch someone else while scum roleblocks him or just assume Tidus isn't going to make cop scans that serve much productive purpose.

I'd really like to know if you're at least open to an argument for lynching Sultan and perhaps other non-Scare targets today before I can support your ascension to the throne.

So anyway actually it's not a ton of thoughts

The big things that pop out to me

Sultan is going really hard on trying to say how dumb it was to lynch Tidus, doubling down on yesterday. I feel like seeing the flip, there's not much reason to rub it in. You said what you needed to yesterday, if you really. I think people were calling him on being way too sure than a town member should be (I still think "person who legitimately drew cop decided to put the pressure on his inno scan" is beyond the pale for bad play and "scum was planning cop fakeclaim if push came to shove then bsed some scans on the spot and forgot his suspect list" is the more reasonable assumption of a misplay) and he is kinda just entrenching in that character to avoid suspicion today, because you really shouldn't have been that sure-- the best argument was to delay because the cop scan would be obviously fake in time, but I already laid out a scenario last topic where that is potentially a losing move too.

IGCD treating this mislynch so much differently than the Crescent one is weird to me. IGCD did you actually think Crescent had a decent chance at being scum or what.

(Death is also treating it differently than the Crescent one but I think he's actually suitably explained the difference)

You wouldn't be wrong Kirby. I'm not sure if he's avoiding me but I'm definitely avoiding Han. That's not because of any in game reason-- it's more because I just don't really get along with the guy. He has said multiple times in this game "Lopen thinks he's the smartest guy on b8" (and he does that outside of mafia topics) and constantly mocked my reign. You'll note when he did that I was just like "can you stop what is the point"

The point is I've been trying to avoid building any sort of interaction with him until I'm damn sure because I think if I really tackle that it's going to be a ton of energy, so I need to be completely sure he's scum before I do so. Any confrontation between us is going to be an even worse distraction than me and Crescent was, and significantly more irritating for me as Han really grates on me when he's trying to treat me like I'm bad at Mafia or dumb or whatever else.

That being said as a major pusher of the sbell lynch and with sbell likely confirmed town (and with supposed #1 scum target Han still alive) he's certainly on the suspect list today for me.

I have other thoughts on the day (I was at a show) but figured I should address this first.

Darn it I knew that one. Not cause I know anything you just happened to intersect my incredibly limited botanical knowledge

Barely yes

He's one of the weaker points in the movie though

Money still on scum but indie would surprise me less than cop

Working itself out might take too long if you miss today. Say it's Tidus scum sbell town. You hit town today then test Tidus tomorrow then he's scum and you say that implies sbell. That's 2 more mislynches.

There's merit to both but I'd rather just lynch the claim that makes no sense

I think letting the claim play out a bit is probably the "best" move but I would have killed him too. The claim seems way more likely to be a really poorly thought out fakeclaim and I think I bullseyed the coaching thing.

On record I like Tidus or Sultan as lynches best today. They seem the most inconsistent and Tidus specifically seems unhelpful and trying to coast on hyping up a power (which again I can't see a town motive to constantly mentioning your role unless you're a role I feel Chris would not include in the game)

Sbell looks a lot better if Han, self proclaimed #1 scum target, is still alive tomorrow imo, another day with him alive might be useful.

MZero raised a good point that Crescent->Mzero as a scum move only works if I think I don't get lynched for Crescent so I can sorta understand why he considered himself a safer lynch there even if my gut still says he's scum trying to diffuse my suspicion by calling me town, if he says content increases due to less work concerns, then may as well give him a shot.

Death I'm willing to give some slack due to always thinking Death is scum and because as said previously his opinion evolution on me could be worse, not blatantly scummy.

Side note this was typed before your last post, but I'm glad your POE has mostly ended with people I'm OK with lynching

Big exception is Plum. I think I'm just a sucker for Plum's solving potential as town-- I talked him up big time in dead town chat with Crescent. I can't say I don't see why people think he's scummy, just that I think it's in character for him to be overwhelmed and that will be considerably harder to fake with 13 town/scum lists to digest tomorrow along with some more flips on the table.

I'd dig more for stuff that paints sbell town or Han as scum (since Han being scum seems to be the crux of your argument for Sbell being town)

The majority of your stuff is very general. Specific posts and instances tend to be convincing.

Alternatively see why people think Sbell isn't town and address those points. See why people think Han isn't scum and address those.

You literally have the guidebook to why people think he's scum laid out in front of you, use it.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Again I wasnt even here. I thought i made points earlier that were fine apparently not but whatever

You were posting for hours before I pointed it out. More than enough time to digest that this is a dire situation for sbell

If you think I'm scum that's fine

I just find your attitude towards sbell suspicious and responding because someone pointed out doesn't help that for me.

Like if it's me an people are going for Chang or red at a 9-1 clip you bet I'm gonna defend them. You're the only one who will at that point.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Okay so let's break down both people asked about.

Sbell- i dont think this is the Sbell that tricked me in the last game. Sbell comes off as pure town frustration then scum just trying for a miss lynch of Han, Han in the arguments with Sbell is shitty alot of twisting words and alot of oh very vague things he yells, Scum Slip! I don't see anything Han is saying when he does this it looks like Han is going for a mislynch. I highly doubt its town v town and if its scum v town its Han is scum and Sbell is town I can't see it the other way. It looks like sbell is trying to show he is town and is getting frustrated.

I'm not fully trusting of scare beacuse before he became king it seemed like he was going though the motions a bit. Maybe I have higher expectations of A town scare the only thing that makes rethink that is his previous game as town and just went with getting killed and didnt put up a fight.

Doing it prompted isn't trying to save town from being mislynched it's self preservation

Tidus and red still lack lists I believe

To make it clear cause I think I may have mushed thoughts together.

Sultan is the 1 in 9/1. Sultan had sbell as town on his list. If I'm in Sultan's shoes I'm championing Sbell super hard here because everyone is wrong and I'm right.

Sbell appearing on NINE scum lists now, borderline 10 with Death beginning to sour on him, is crazy. I'm not sure what to make of it. Either he's scum getting bussed or he's really scummy looking town (or the independent) and you've got scum in the 3-4 scum list range and the scumteam wants to guarantee a mislynch.

Big takeaway for me is you have to look really hard at Sultan here. If I'm Sultan I'm arguing harder that he's town if I'm his one supporter. The only reason I wouldn't is if I'm scum trying to look smart, or too blatantly contradictory to sentiment to have the audacity to call for my scumbuddy town. If you won't fight for it it feels like noting disagreement because you know it won't matter rather than genuine town vibe.

IGCD for overlord is a dream we can attain together

Throw Kirby in the fun loving idiot pile

I say that without rereading. I remember you.

I feel like Tidus had to have been a rush vote but maybe he was also a fun loving idiot

Oh OK

Crescent was made up. Makes sense.

Are you sure Tidus wasn't made up too because that doesn't make sense either. I can't really say I'd move him up my list since he was already top 5

Crescent and Tidus

What on earth man.

I don't think he's going to just tally lists.

I hope he's not going to just tally lists.

Oh right propping up lame ducks I forgot that part

Yeah. That wasn't really what I was doing. That being said, if I cared more, I would have. And as sheep just said, I don't think it's shameful even if I was doing it. I thought just pure charisma and apathy from the rest could elect me though, and again, I didn't care all that much about being elected. I just thought it was important that someone did and whoever did used it better than just dayvig into end. I've always thought I could do much more damage with it day 3.

I still want IGCD to be king sometime in this game. That's real talk. That's chaos scum can't control or predict that gets IGCD into the game and I love it.

MZero not so much because I suspect him now but yeah.

Like do you want person by person?

I'll just give overall thoughts I can recall.

Rana... probably the one I thought about the most in hindsight. Ultimately it ended up null now that he's replaced. I thought it seemed fine in the moment but scum I think consider parking their vote on me to feign activity. Even as Rana though, no replace, close enough to null that I didn't weigh it. Thought about it, though.
Ben was out to have fun
IGCD was out to have fun
Chang was out to have fun
I swapped to myself to win and cause Han was voting himself
Red just did it to end the day
Death did it to assure a king

Ultimately I wasn't using who voted me too much as a scum hunting tool. But that's because a lot of votes seemed not much thought into them or shallow reasons, and it's day 1. I think I won because I came off as less motivated to win than Han and no one else really cared. Also because I was wacky about it. That wasn't a ploy to get votes, that's just me. People calling it a ploy got me annoyed.

There are 3 I'm actually missing there. The fact that I forgot them means I didn't really put any thought into them, so if you want thoughts I'd have to reread. I think Sultan was on there. I think he distrusted Han mostly.

I remember being annoyed about you trying to last minute lead the train off me. I got annoyed that you and Han were big leaders of that movement to get votes off of me, not because I cared overly much about winning (though by the time you showed up, I was starting to get hyped for it) but because I thought you two were just doing it because you had pride about your mafia skills and how dare that Lopen fellow think he could do it better. That is probably what started me on edge-- more cool headed I may take Crescent's defiance in a bit better stride.

Let me know if you wanted something else than I provided here.

Now I wouldn't presume to step on our lord King Scare's toes but I would humbly request he make his own list upon receipt of the outstanding 6 lists, before handing in his verdict.

It would be much appreciated, and I must stress, not a demand, merely a plea for thy lord's benevolence to guide us in the coming days.

1. Sultan
2. Scare
3. Plum
4. Lopen
5. Tidus
6. changmas
7. htaeD
8. Han
9. IGCD
10.Sbell
11.Kirby321
12.Sheep
13.Mzero
14.Red

I think we're awaiting lists from non-bolds currently. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I did the half off and got Sabin AASB2. It's... fine. I have his Sync so he's kinda usable for content now.

Wow. So you're saying I have only spectated/participated in mafia since SBell came back?

SBell = ratings.

IGCD for King day 3

The powers that be don't want it

That's exactly why we should give it to em

Sheep007 posted...

When did Lopen go from being one of the players that you wanted to take a closer look at to one of your strongest town reads?

And then back to a scum read when I put him as #4 scum.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

You do it anyways duh. You say the same thing you said either way

How would that make sense? I throw her into the pressure cooker for getting me angry by... pleasantly answering questions?

Also if Elden Ring was the one scare got lynched d1 in I disagree she was really good in it but I digress.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Might be thinking about this a bit much but I can totally see lopen becoming king as scum and killing Crescent-Moon on purpose and trying to play it off. Like he only had her in mind and knowing she was town and the most vocal town she was a threat after seeing her Elden rings game where she was really good in.

No.

I really don't respect Crescent's play that much. I'm being completely honest when I say she overwhelms game bandwidth. And that tracks back to my postgame comments on other games too, if you followed those.

Here's a question-- if you think that was my plan the whole time how do you think I achieve it if she simply cooperates?

Cases and suspect list in order. Bolding entries I would put up for lynch. Italicizing those I think are more likely town than not. People that are neither, not a strong enough read to die preventing the lynch. Kept untouchables to one-- I would not fault you for any other choices, m'lord, with sufficient accountability shown on your end.

Suspect #1 MZero - Set up a double kill by AFK. He claims he trusts me because just lynching MZero would be easy yesterday, but scum Lopen setting up the double kill of Crescent->MZero is just a stronger play. Certainly once Crescent flips town, this is not a claim to make.
Suspect #2 Tidus - The evolution of his suspicion on me makes no sense and feels like he's playing it in a way to seem townlike more than it being authentic. I see no town logic to constantly mentioning your power role and it seems like he's using it as an excuse to do nothing. I suspect he's been coached by scummate to do this because we've seen some horrible scum games from Tidus, basically a way to distract himself from incriminating himself.
Suspect #3 SBell - Went early with a weak case to be king. Has been carefully navigating suspecting me to the point where it feels more like a way to come off as townish rather than genuine thought process.
Suspect #4 Sultan - Jumping around, making too many salient points. I think he lacks the panic he would have as town. At the same time, he has had some completely off the wall reactions like saying Crescent seemed scummy yesterday and then turning around and suspecting me because it was town on town. He seems a bit of a fearmonger more than someone with a consistent thought process, and his reaction to being "set up" with the King vote rubbed me the wrong way too. Doesn't like any king reps, won't suggest his own.
Suspect #5 Death - Similar case to SBell, with one caveat. 1. I feel like after pointing out that I was more suspicious of people giving me a town pass, he continued to back off and SBell intensified. 2. He gave me considerably more flack than SBell for it yesterday, and defended Crescent much more than SBell yesterday.
Suspect #6 Rana/Sheep - Standard inactive. Doesn't really change the basic idea that I think inactive for him = scum or town vanilla. However now that he's replaced, UNTOUCHABLE SHEEP, as I would rather give the slot a chance to play and the inactive lynch is a copout.
Suspect #7 Han - He has been playing the game seeking out scum. He seems power hungry which has motivations as each alignment but I think for a player like him he sees unkillable day vig and becomes Gollum, y'know? Minus loving gameses. Tough to read though.
Suspect #8 Kirby321 - Has contributed a lot, none of it is completely weird and I have prodded him about it with satisfactory responses. Think he'd slip harder by now, but not 100% confident due to lack of exposure. Didn't like his reaction to the king vote orders late in topic 5 but thought SBell, Tidus, and Sultan all looked worse for reacting to it than he did for floating it.
Suspect #9 Plum - In dead town chat in Psych me and Crescent had a lot of talk about town plum. I think this format overwhelming him seems likely, and I appreciate him continuing to be paranoid of me due to that. Scum hammermonger or whatever he was saying about red is another example of paranoia plum. Like he's wrong, but I appreciate it-- I think he'll level out and be a boon to town eventually, when the format gives him a bit more data to digest.
Suspect #10 Chang - Uncountered vig claim that shot a target that seemed reasonable. Think content has been fine. Only problem with him is he seemed overdramatic on the likelihood of losing his vig shot and he overreacted to killing Ben the vanilla calling it a "giga throw." It raises some eyebrows.
Suspect #11 M'lord - M'lord! I'll never forget when you got me through those times. I think if you were scum you would easily just phone it in and win.
Suspect #12 IGCD - Everything he's done has tracked to a consistent viewpoint of someone trying to solve the game at minimum effort to me. I like that he's not overreaching with any cases either.
Suspect #13 red13n - Seems pretty town. Maybe could fake it. Think he would idle more though-- he's high effort faking if he is which doesn't seem likely. Also he actually semi-cooperated with my demands which to me is super town for red, because it was my demand. red dunking on me for the sake of it as scum rather than trying to comply slightly to avert a meltdown seems likely.

OFF WITH THElR HEADS, MY LORD.

I'm going to repost it after editing it for ease of digestion and more accurately fitting the criteria of your demands, my lord. Worry not