Lurker > HanOfTheNekos

Also, yeah, from a metagame standpoint, wanting to kill me D1 is expressly anti-Town-Chris, so another thing I feel weird about.

SirChris posted...

Aren't my two best town tells dying and murdering a scum

What would you even be looking for day 1 to go 'oh yeah Chris seems town'

You murdered lots of Scum in SW&P!

I hate to focus on Red, but I have a vivid memory of eating lunch at a bodega reading you bully Red into activity. And then drawing from that. And pushing on.

I don't think it's fair to completely compare those, as you've floated among the net for awhile and B8 Town's are just lazier recently on D1, but there's a fire led by legitimate work that would do me a better job at locking in that thought on you.

All that said, I still don't consider it relevant because I doubt, if you're Town, that you live for long. I also doubt I live for long, since now I won't be seen as default N1 save. So really, my read on you I consider to not be something actionable, and likely won't be. So it's better to not care so much.

As for JC, I think he put a lot of thought into his list. I get what you're saying about the gut line seeming to be more from Town but I probably need to go back and read what he said after that to put my thoughts into more accurate light.

Also, I've been playing wayyyy more than I should at work. So I guess repost the questions you asked me earlier if you want me to tell you why I didn't care for them.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I suspected Ctes a lot when he was Town. Same with Isquen, but I've learned to adjust to that. As for Ctes, we're Masons this game so I don't have to worry about reading him wrong.

As for JC, I don't really remember if I've gunned for him prior to last game. It doesn't quite register on my mind.

Lea, can you put your argument on Death to me in three sentences, and explain why Chris is wrong?

Catman is so good. But yeah, he's gone more the way of Batman - he's not a hero so much as he is vengeance.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


My read on him last game was based on his actions toward end of day though - not an analysis like this.

If anything, I'd say he had a more cocksure attitude in the previous game and that I see this as different.

I don't need to see another game. I won't read it anyway.

I can both take your words to mind and accept it's probably a thing you do more often now, but I can also hold a healthy amount of suspicion because you could just be lying or do it NAI anyway.

Even holding an amount of suspicion I'm still willing to engage with you. I just haven't had much purpose.

And to clarify, that's not meant to be a default stance or however you responded to Lea - my reads of the game have been based more on Townclearing lately, and I have been more moderate in terms of examining people's arguments and such instead of just trying to slam dunk a read.

As it stands, you are not in the Townish tier - us agreeing on some points probably keeps you neutral but I still feel uneasy because you have yet to do anything that makes me think you're actually Town.

SirChris posted...

I feel like proving town is a bad way to look at it. There are a lot more town than scum so really everyone's default positions are town to me tbh.

I have no problem with not handwriting me but I feel as if you think I am talking nonsense you should be more probative with me. You as town have been more engaged with me in the past day 1 to figure me out but today you have barely asked anything of me which is unusual for you.

Did you respond to my question of what post of mine earlier you didn't like?

Not even proving Town, but you haven't done anything that makes me think you are. That might just be respect for your play on overdrive, but I've viewed most of what you've said with healthy suspicion.

If I were to step back from that, id say we actually agreed on Sheep to start. I think I believe Sheep is Town more than you, and also though we were both looking at Ulti, I think I believe he is more likely to be Scum than you do. Based on what I've seen.

Thing is, even if I disagree with you in some places, I don't see your actions and ways of driving discussion as being anti-Town so I don't really have anything to talk you down from. Except for the Lea thing, which as expressed, I thought was fallacious. Yes, she has maybe not been as aggressive as in SW&P, but I don't think that's indicative.

As for the post I didn't like, it was the one where I said I didn't know what you were actually saying. I'll admit I suffer from getting suspicious of people who look my way more than I should. But it felt like word salad designed to put something on me, and your questions to me on JC felt the same - sort of like peacocking to look like you're making more of a point than you are.

Anyway, I'll ENGAGE because you're the only one I can remember off-hand saying something along the lines, but do you think JC voting on "gut" is explicitly Townish?

And does anybody else think he's Town? Or do some people just not like my argument, but that's it?

Sheep007 posted...

Hmm. Thanks for clarifying, I do appreciate it and your perspective seems a little more coherent to me now.

(And it was not entirely to bait you, but it was one of the things in my mind when I claimed without flavour. I don't think it's a great metric to put any read at all on, especially when you've actively mentioned it in the community before).

In the game where I talked about flavor text, I was wrong in that instance and then someone else claimed with flavor text but that was tainted data at that point.

I stand by that metric but I haven't done the actual research to prove it. I would expect it to be like 80% accurate.

And as for not claiming flavor for a vanilla claim, I might be overrating it. But whenever I see examples of stuff like this, it's usually Town (unless it's someone like Red who designs his non-play to always be the exact same)

SirChris posted...

Felt like you were talking to me! But if you weren't then complaint withdrawn. Who do you think is having trouble reading?

I think I've responded to Crescent 3 times by saying the equivalent of "No u"

Also, frankly Chris, I don't particularly feel like you've proved yourself Town yet, so you'll have to excuse me for my approach to you. And since I'm trying to communicate clearly and someone will ask, no I don't think you're worth pursuing today and therefore it is still worth responding to your queries even when I don't see the worth in all of them.

SirChris posted...

You do realize just for the record I am literally internet wide considered one of the best players in mafia right.

Like if you want to come at me with 'reading beyond the surface level is hard for some pepple' I can crank up my aggression to levels that make lopen and ulti on their worst day look like school children playing in the sand.

So I would suggest keeping your snideness to yourself.

Anyway regardless of how busy she has been she has been a lot less aggressive than in poke wars which was only 9 months ago or so bot a year + just fyi

I wasn't talking about you

Sheep:

No, I would not believe you did that to bait me.

Thank you for reminding me about that post - the Death thing wasn't the biggest thing that stood out to me about you. It was the biggest thing that was yet unsaid. My biggest thing on you is that I find (still do) your posts on page 1 to be, idk, forcing a personality?

And my unvoting on you wasn't just for the reasoning I gave - it's mainly because I reread your actions on page 1 topic 1 and thought it didn't make sense from a Scum perspective, in spite of me feeling suspicious of your tone.

SirChris posted...

I know sheep broached the subject but I don't know why you mentioned Lea in the way you did

I already mostly explained why, but I'll clarify since reading beyond surface level is difficult for some people.

Lea was being discussed with regards to her past play. By two people who haven't played with her in like a year+. She's been discussed as floaty and fucking around, and not having the weight she did as Scum.

I'm saying that this read is fallacious because she's probably just busy. She's been busy as of late, but I remembered interactions with her more in the previous game's day 1 than in this one, hence me saying I wanted her to post more.

Tired, even

Crescent-Moon posted...

The scum motive would be just to make a comment to not be seen as avoiding it. My nagging issue was it felt like it's there for the sole purpose of being there. It didn't say anything.

Actually it did say something.

I'm starting to get tires of this, Crescent.

SirChris posted...

Why bring Lea up iyo?

Also worth saying that I didn't bring Lea up. It was actually Sheep

Crescent-Moon posted...

This is why I said it was a comment I felt didn't need to exist other than to bring Lea up.

It was a loose defense of Lea in that I was catching up after a meeting and saw people comparing her to past selves and her lack of as much weight, as Sheep put it, id probably due to her being busy.

Sheep007 posted...

Bleh. Halfway through an ISO on Han, and my main thought is that his vote on me was as meh as I remembered it being. Of all the reasons to name for voting me, it strikes me as off that he took the game in a way that my read on Death (something I legitimately felt pretty strongly about. I still do, although I've not yet received one of the 100% TownDeath tells from him) is what he thought was most noteworthy.

Is it bad that I actually don't know what you're taking about here?

I am also mildly confused upon refreshing seeing Han talk about Lea being busy and then that she seriously needs to post more? Even with my mild suspicions of her, I don't feel like she needs to post more frequently in the slightest, I'd just be feeling better about her if her posts had more weight in the game.

Lea and I tend to have a rapport - we've had games where we don't develop it and end up as both Town. But I'm mainly channeling my thoughts from last game where I generally felt good about her and she tosses out some solid reads that ended up panning out.

That hasn't quite happened yet and I'm seeing more Sheepa than Leada which is why I want to see more.

SirChris posted...

Who hurt you

Lopen

and Ulti a bit

Crescent-Moon posted...

It was a brief discussion in which no shade was thrown and no one called her inactive. This isn't giving an opinion on Lea nor does it seem relevant to the brief discussion we had on her.

Which makes me wonder why say it at all

Because it was relevant to the brief discussion that was had on her.

I mean, Lea you're so great I like having you around.

But really, post more, because I'm having trouble getting a read on you insofar

Lea you're awful you need to post more or get out of here

In fact, this is empirically the most pleasant I've been in like, 10 games.

All this talk about Lea and she's probably just busy.

SirChris posted...

##vote: han

you feel grumpy. I don't like it. Be less grumpy or die in obscurity tbh

I'm not grumpy at all. I'm also probably a little bit geared to see your posts with mistrust because earlier in the day you said something I didn't like so I've been modestly wary of you since.

Anyway, if you want me to go into details about why your questions were not compelling, you'll have to wait about 5 hours, so

SirChris posted...

Looking at this player list I am pretty happy with the activity today. Feels like everyone is at the least chiming in.

I was going to respond to this with basically:

Sheep007 posted...

It definitely doesn't feel like a 14 player game.

I was gonna wait til she's here but it probably makes more sense to ask when the people I want to hear from are: Crescent, Chris, Han - thoughts on Lea?

SirChris posted...

Off hand I liked that he information gathered for me but oddly enough I can't recall much from him. Will need to hop on my computer later and go through his posts but I vaguely remember his posts being fine!

Also han seriously where do you get off saying my questions are bad? Has your ego truly grown so much in my absence? Geesh

I'll explain why when I get home from work, but they read more like asking questions for the sake of asking questions than to actually determine truth. At least, I didn't feel like there was, idk, legitimate detective work behind them,

SirChris posted...

I didn't like him calling my questions not compelling and then he half way walked it back.

Look I can be right and I can be wrong but few have accused me of not being compelling in my thought experiments so like. Hm. Felt like he was trying to minimalize me.

They weren't compelling, with the exception of one. That's not me minimalizing you, it's you not asking good questions.

And I still answered them anyway. You're welcome.

Crescent-Moon posted...

All I remember thinking at the time was "If Sheep is scum, immediately murder Han for whatever the fuck this defense is"

I am resisting the urge to get catty here, so instead I'll just tell you to go back and read again. It's a pretty simple defense.

I defended a thought process that was somewhat unrelated, but that wasn't like, my direct defense of Sheep, so if you read the stuff that wasn't a defense of Sheep and thought it was a defense of Sheep, then yeah, that's on you.

Crescent-Moon posted...

I've been paranoid of Han ever since his defense of Sheep left me confused more than anything else. It felt like a lot of words designed to give people headaches.

???

Which word? Sheep? Flavor?

It was a pretty straightforward defense, so I'm not sure where this reaction comes from.

SirChris posted...

Really

What are the votals

I checked.

Ulti hopped on, then off.

Sultan joined recently. This morning.

That's it. Not sure off the top of my head who else agreed with me on JC.

SirChris posted...

Monty hall says it is better to lynch someone voting jc than to lynch jc.

I think there's only one person voting JC atm though.

Maybe some shade tossed his way, but no commitment.

wallmasterz posted...

ah, my bad. Youre right.

Anyway, to still answer, the reason I asked that question is because I think it's an important question.

Few players like to be that cute as Scum. They usually fall apart when scrutinized anyway (looking at Ben, puns).

And as Chris said earlier, people like to punish players for "bad play" or acting weird. For example, BCT overreacts to slight pressure, and his suspicions are mainly based on who has pointed in his direction. This makes him easy to lynch because people see that and think that it's not up to snuff - yet, that doesn't mean he's Scum. It just means he's emotional and doesn't do well with being suspected.

Oh I hated your page 1 posts and still hate them, Sheep.

But your claim had me second guessing and reviewing you/Dumey on page 1, action-wise, turned me off on you/Dumey kind of entirely.

I've been getting stuck in a hole in terms of reading people's tones as of late, so I'm trying to conscientiously fight against such urges. Or as Crescent put it, I'm trying to be self aware.

Crescent-Moon posted...

I don't think I've ever seen scum you go this long without trying to lynch me so I guess that makes you fine right now.

Han has been giving my gut bad vibes for most of the game that I've been trying to figure out but now I'm being self aware and remembering I tend to suspect him almost every game we play.

Probably because my username is "OfTheNekos" but I'm making no references to cats.

wallmasterz posted...

Ok so town does nonsensical and whimsical things more. Han, what was the point of asking me this? You dont think sheep is ballsy enough to make this play? You want me to drop suspicion towards Sheep? If sheep is scum, kind of poetic he replaced Ben lol

Han, not to mention, you were the loudest by far against sheep when the game first started.

My original post that started this was talking about Dumey.

SirChris posted...

Okay let me clarify

"Better than lol gut"

Gut's a great reason to vote someone :)

I guess if I wanted to respond to you here in a way that's productive, I would ask "who else?"

Frankly, I'm seeing him linked to Ulti atm, so that would be a reason to not vote Ulti. You've already stated that Sheep is an acceptable Vanilla to off at end of day, so further pushing right now is at best performative.

He ended up giving a both sides answer for Ctes, nothing for me, appeasement for you, the same 'wall is fine but maybe not tomorrow!' as Ulti... I would just say that Death is an easier person to go after than some people who would start a fight, or would be seen as low hanging fruit

He didn't give good reasons to vote others.

Excepting perhaps Sheep, but again, sticking on Sheep when everyone else looks elsewhere draws a spotlight on him.

His read of Ulti very clearly states that his thoughts could be irrelevant.

wallmasterz posted...

its also a nonsensical thing to do right out of the gate as town, imo. So why would either alignment do it? Seems odd to say why would scum do this and not consider the fact you answered your own question by asking it.

Town do nonsensical things more.

SirChris posted...

Not compelling questions huh

Maybe one of them felt worthwhile.

I feel like you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole atm. For one several people hopped onto sheep and no one has cared about that so I don't see why scum jc would be afraid to do that unless as you say specifically those other wagons are scum buddies for jc

I mean, JC could be content to just put a vote on Sheep who has already cut off wasting time with his claim, and then do fuck all for the rest of the day. Seems really transparent though.

Secondly how often do you catch scum in this method, han? I think ulti has referenced list catching from you before but this is reminding me s lot of very recent games for me where people don't look for scum motives very carefully and instead try to punish lax play.

5 times, Ulti is always paying me lip service without ever having any backing in truth so he should be ignored wrt me, and this isn't punishing lax play. It's not even close to that. I'm not sure why you're trying to shove a Mario shaped peg into this game of Yahtzee.

htaeD posted...

Actually now that I see people mention it back on page2, Ulti being more active is probably a nultell because of Chris' presence being the changing factor.

Him not having COVID should be considered the major factor I would think.

SirChris posted...

Sultan and han can you both answer these questions.

Honestly, they're not compelling questions.

Death isn't seem as strong enough a player to fear poking at (and he's not the guy who strikes back). If you're Town, sheepinf could be rightfully seen as sheeping you. Motivation could be that Sheep or Ulti is a Scummate and he wants to push attention elsewhere while keeping his business option voiced.

And he benefits from doing it for a weak reason because, in a game where multiple people have said Death is an easy read, Death has not been easily read. Ergo, there's a vacuum and a supposed excuse.

ctesjbuvf posted...

That question if for both Sultan and Han btw (but I guess anyone can answer if something in it felt forced to them).

Particularly you, me, MZero, Chris, Sultan, and Wall lines.

htaeD posted...

Lea and Chris are just being pranksters
JC mentioned his reasons on page2/3? I think.

Good prank

wallmasterz posted...

yeah, I have been a little more preoccupied with current thoughts on Dumey atm but I still am weary of ulti this game.

Here's a question: why do you think Scum would say "hey I thought about claiming post 1 but I decided not to"?

Did I miss reading a page about Death because I don't remember him getting votes.

Yeah, I wonder what things would be like if we got Thunder and Lightning on a standalone mission where Black Lightning got Justified and we didn't meet the current Justice League.

An early grab of those two could have made them core characters the way Jaime, Alice, Freddy are.

_stingers_ posted...

I just had an awesome first date on Saturday and we hit off, talked for 5 hours, made out in my car for like 30 mins, made plans for a second date and then she texts me 2 hours ago and says she's not feeling a match and wants to break it off. Like what the fuck? I swear that people just get off on messing with my head cuz idk how you can just 180 like that in 2 days. I hate online dating too man this shit is hell

Dude, I had one of these a year and a half ago. Dynamite girl, we had a great time, made specific plans. Then she was cancelling... Didn't have the guts to full-on cut things off, so she ghosted me after I tried to reschedule.

She's a big fan of Rent so I rubbed it in her face that I saw Adam Pascal live a couple months later.

UltimaterializerX posted...

No one worth dating is using a dating app, and they are in no way designed to help you find a partner. Theyre meant to keep men addicted and to drain men of their resources, and not much else.

Get off the dating apps and look for people in person. Doing just that puts you in the top 20% of men just because youll stand out so much. That percentage can be cut down even more if you have money, youre good looking, tall, etc.

Ok boomer

Also, Ulti hopping on JC with me feels bussy. In particular of worry about Ulti here is that he has said the following:

"Wall if it's day 2"
"If Wall wasn't around, I'd circle BCT"

Holy low hanging fruit, Batman

Dumey is Townish for mostly the same reasons Sheep is.

To clarify on JC: it's about the psychology of making their list, taken partly from my own experiences with myself. I usually provide a list at the end of each day 1 (plum tried to call this a Scumtell last game when I did not). And when I make lists as informed Scum, I have to lie about everyone on the list.

As Town, I have honest reads and no reads. They just come out as is. As Scum, it's forced - have to put together a reason why I am pretending to see someone as Scum. Why a Scummate could be Scummy, but I'm unsure. Why a Town person is Town (easiest because it's true). And Scum do over-explain: it is more likely for Scum to provide reasoning on every nitpick because they don't want to be called out for being vague. It's safer for them.

That's what JC's list reads as. Not "fluff", but forced content.

Yes

I might call the movies varied in their execution, but undeniable is this character.

Would be sad but I'll guess Ray, The

I've had thunder or lightning on my list for a bit

Jeopardy
Fox News

Lightning then there's thunder

And I'm guessing Sentinel

Morisca was cool, yeah.

I knew I should have picked her instead of Kathy. But really, I should have stuck to my list and picked Air Wave instead of either.