Lurker > Haste_2

LeonhartFour posted...

I feel like Donkey Kong should just be merged into Mario, though.

nah, having DKC music in a Mario contest doesn't make much sense

If we did DKC, that means we could go Yoshi games, too. Of course, then that means Mario Kart, etc... oh, wait, those obviously would be included regardless. Mario & Sonic Olympics, though! (and also Diddy Kong Racing) Granted, Mario is what I would be least interested in, regardless of how it's done...

Mega Man would be fun, too, but I'm worried about predictable winners there... stuff from MMX1, MM2/3, and X vs. Zero. Still, there's lots of cool Mega Man music that's never been in VGMC. If we could allow Smash Bros. remixes in that (I doubt that would fly), I would like it more, though!

bemani/Atelier/Trails/Kirby... they could be fun, but the voter base would be almost 100% VGMC people, I think, so that would be low vote totals. But I really, really love Kirby music... a Kirby music contest would be the greatest thing ever to me. (but yeah, low votals)

Smash Bros would be fun. There's an absurd amount of remixes, and only the most dedicated Smash fans would know all of them, thus there is plenty of opportunity for discovery. What FL81 said.

Pokemon would be fun, too. PMD would not dominate the results, except for maybe Sky Tower and Dialga. It would be hard for me to deal with stuff like RBY Gym Leader theme beating SDMB...

Man, I would never give up my ability to support music to auto-include music of my choice, even if I get 0 qualified noms each year endlessly. (unless I found a piece of vgm that's on par with Second Dark Matter Battle... I don't think that will ever happen.) EDIT: But if I get a good deal on trading supports, I might do it. e.g. if I only have to trade six supports to auto-include something. But it sounds somewhat intriguing. I like KCF's proposal as long as only contest veterans are allowed to make use of it. I would say any user who voted a specified number of matches last year (or over the last several years) should be the ones who can opt for trading supports for auto-include. I wouldn't be a fan of giving privileges to users who participate in nominations a lot, but don't vote in very many actual matches.

DoctorJimmy does make a point in that allowing people to use all five of their "doubles" for a single nom would have a similar effect, so maybe make a change along those lines could be an option, as well. (Yes, it's true, using a double five times wouldn't quite be an auto-include if the lock requirement is six noms.) EDIT: you know, thinking about it.... if we made it so that everyone was allotted ten doubles and were also allowed unlimited use of them on any given song, whether it's our own or somebody else's... that would be a lot like KCF's option, but it gives everyone more flexibility! Yesssss!!!

I like azuarc's idea also, because I feel that people who struggle with nomination success shouldn't have to trade supports to get an auto-include. It really is a neat idea to help out the struggling nominator instead of having to disappoint people with tiebreakers. But it might need adjusting to ensure that we don't end up with only like three auto-include spots in the bracket!

The thing about KCF's proposal is that, well, I don't think very many people are going to opt for auto-includes, unless the noms traded for an auto-support is reasonably low. But then again, it wouldn't hurt to try it out! I'm all for trying that out rather than doing exactly the same nomination process next year.

MacArrowny posted...

I think this year's contest was run very well and liked the nomination system. Tremendous work, deo.

I certainly never said I didn't like the nom system this year. I was one of the big proponents of dropping noms back down to 20! I even made a post specifically requesting that prior to this contest, so perhaps you could throw me a compliment, as well! >_> (but really, though... Tremendous work, deo.)

Well, looks like my post stimulated some good discussion. Yeah, after thinking about it, I would totally be down for auto-include. I don't think it's grievously against the spirit of the contest as long as there aren't too many of them. My main issue with auto-include is that if every user gets one, that would mean 80 auto-includes, which would be 1/3 of the bracket. That would make it quite a bit more difficult for conventional noms, so it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole idea...

I would suggest limiting them somehow. Mac already provided one idea, which would require each user a minimum of ten nominations. Or otherwise we could require a certain degree of participation in order to qualify for an auto-include (leave it up to the host's discretion?). Another idea is to limit auto-includes to those users who don't do very well during the nomination period. For example, provide the auto-include only to those who got less than three songs into the tournament. Looking at the stats for VGMC16, there were only like 25 users who had less than three songs qualify for the bracket. So, if we did it this way, we'd probably get no more than 32 auto-includes, which seems like about the right number.

But if almost everyone must get an auto-include, maybe just create a side bracket for them?

Unlimited SaGa is the prime example I can think of. Final Fantasy XIII-2 and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity, too, even though those games are apparently more "not that great" rather than bad.

Great contest! Looking back, I think it was a step in the right direction to reduce nominations from thirty to twenty, because that dropped the nomination field from 1000+ down to 750. But... I think improvements could still be made for the next year.

Twenty noms is really limiting. I do recall a certain user on discord (who shall remain nameless) who admitted to using every one of his limited supports to favorites that he already knew about. No doubt many other users were in a similar situation (btw, I think this "nameless" user has good taste in music!). Thus for the benefit of those who nominate good (but not well known) music, it would be best to increase the number of nominations again so that people actually have room to support them. Granted, we don't want to have 1000+ songs again. You probably now already know what I'm gonna propose, but this is just one possible way to handle it...

1) 50 noms per user
2) 10 unique nom cap per user (this basically means 10 noms + 40 supports)
3) Several days into the contest, 100 extra unique noms will be available for distribution; anyone can request extra noms; however, those whose nominations are doing poorly will get first dibs.

I feel this will benefit the chances of the less popular users who nominate less familiar stuff, and I think many users would find it satisfying to be able to support more than 10-15 songs. (Granted, I'm actually torn on whether I would want this for my own selfish reasons, but I feel this will be to everyone's benefit) The worst possible thing would be unlimited supports, though. That would ruin the chances of a lot of unique music from qualifying.

dumb

Good contest! Thanks for hosting. Back in Time was only ranked twelth of the sixteen retirees, but it should be more like ninth or tenth place now. Last Specter would have been a really disappointing champion, IMO... like, it would have been a bottom three champion in my book. Back in Time has grown on me recently, so I can tolerate it as a champion.

Passing through the Forest
To Far Away Times
++ Can You Feel the Sunshine?

First match is close. Third match is not close at all.

I pronounce sang as "singed"

Back in Time

This is my least favorite final since at least VGMC12. I think Back in Time would make a better champ than resurrectedreplayer or Sunshine Coastline, though.

f-word

My favorite in Bracket A is #64 in the x-stats. Yay.

no

Un Deux Trois

...okay, I guess I'll vote.

Ragna Breakers

Un Deux Trois

My favorite of the four bracket finals! (even if I do wish it were Tyrano Lair here instead)

Phoenix Wright as Ace Attorney General

(For a split second I literally read this poll as "Who would you prefer as ace attorney general?"

Back in Time

(whoops on my retiree rankings.... who knows, maybe i'll flip tomorrow)

crazy

Write-in poll vote: Terminal Velocity Act 1

(will vote in the actual match later)

catch

Epicentre

Write-in vote:
Final Fantasy XIII: Lightning Returns - The Dead Dunes ~Scorching Desert~

PIayer_0 posted...

Vote:
https://vocaroo.com/1bBCO8BrEsmP

Destiny Child - Ragna Breakers

Is that you playing the piano thar?!

lost

Moonlight Concert

Metroid

Un Deux Trois
To Far Away Times

Rainbow after snow
PowerOne

sergiocornaga posted...

Given that we'll probably have 16 new retirees next contest rather than 12, maybe this purely hypothetical contest could have the remaining slots filled with the 12 highest ranked non-retirees according to xstats across every past VGMC... could result in some pretty wild inclusions?

That's one idea. Or we could wait until we have 260 retirees and then remove what we expect to be the strongest four (two of them obviously being Time's Scar and Dreams of a Shore). Then the winner of the 256-song ToC gets to face off against those four strong songs.

The Sunleth Waterscape
Can You Feel the Sunshine?

Northeast Frost Street
Ragna Breakers

Killer first match! Went with the former because those of those surprise key changes near the end really sell it. I just love music that saves its best stuff for the end. But the middle part of Moonlight Concert is amazing, with that flute duet that just makes me float... and I just love the way the Dorian gets emphasized near the end there... the feels, man!

Nine of the sixteen R5'ers are "officially" in my top 100, so mathematically that works out pretty good for me since my overall win rate isn't that much over 50%. I'm listening with headphones this time... I kinda wish I had been using them in the contest matches, but whatever. Anyway, these are brand new scores, so it'll be interesting to compare them to the scores in my overall rankings.

AMAZING RETIREES:
Sonic R - Can You Feel the Sunshine? (9.5)

EXCELLENT RETIREES:
Kirby and the Forgotten Land - Northeast Frost Street (9.2)
The Liar Princess and the Blind Prince - Moonlight Concert (9.15)
Final Fantasy VI - Dancing Mad (9.1)
DEEMO II - Un Deux Trois (9.05)

GOOD RETIREES:
Final Fantasy XIII - The Sunleth Waterscape (8.85)
beatmania IIDX 20 tricoro / jubeat saucer - Rainbow after snow (8.8)
Chrono Trigger - To Far Away Times (8.78)
Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter - PowerOne (8.75)
Destiny Child - Ragna Breakers (8.5)

DECENT RETIREES:
Super Mario 64 - Staff Roll (8.3)
Sonic R - Back in Time (8.1)
Iseki-jima to Nanatsu no Mahou - Banbard (Piano Version) (8.0)

MEH RETIREES:
Professor Layton and the Last Specter - The Last Specter's Theme (7.6)
SimCity 4 - Epicentre (7.5)

MEDIOCRE RETIREES:
Cleopatra Fortune - SHININ' QUEEN (6.8)

Overall, I like this group of winner more than last year's! Every time I hear the Latin section of Can You Feel the Sunshine I just want to EXPLODE. Also, I never knew just how great Un Deux Trois sounds with headphones. The whole sound of it really is an experience. =O (maybe I'm glad it beat Song of Mourning >_>) Also, I take back what I said about Dancing Mad being overrated....

The VGMC Retirees playlists have been updated! The count is up to 244! Almost enough for a 256-song contest....

A-M: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtm-5nTauRmH9-omKRQf_FQI6GEE84aTu
N-Z: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtm-5nTauRmE4iHlAGmEBHXDf3Hs9T0zP

Hey, we have our first fully Sakimoto retiree in PowerOne! I'm pretty happy about that, except I prefer other Sakimoto music in Lost Forest and Edge of the Future, both of which lost opportunity for retirement in very close matches.... :(

Also, I'm getting kind of tired of iconic old classic games getting multiple retirees (Dancing Mad, To Fara Away Times, Staff Roll)... like, the music is good, but not THAT good! But I will note that Final Fantasy VI finally got something retired! It's a very popular soundtrack, so it's kind of surprising it took this long.

Chock another one up for Nekomata Master! He's up to four now, I think?

Sunleth Waterscape is our first post-Final Fantasy X retiree! (excluding spinoffs of older games like Crisis Core) The FFXIII games have excellent soundtracks, so I'm pretty happy about this one. I'm also happy that Hamauzu finally has a song on the list that's 100% his own.

Sonic R now has three retirees... how many games are there now with at least three reps....? Let's list them off:

Ar nosurge
Ar Tonelico II
Atelier Ayesha
Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger
Donkey Kong Country
Final Fantasy X
NieR
Sonic R
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Terraria Calamity
Umineko When They Cry ~ Answer Arcs
Umineko When They Cry ~ Question Arcs
VVVVVV
Xenoblade Chronicles(?) - does the Definitive Edition count as being part of the first game?

That's fourteen or fifteen.

Flame

Old L.A. 2040
abstain for now

Huh. I come in expecting to be lamenting about Desert-Duo being hopelessly outvoted by To Far Away Times, and now the latter is actually sounding better. What is happening to me?! I'll have to listen again tomorrow.

Oh, man. I should have known that the idea of Song of Mourning being liked enough to retire was just wishful thinking.

Song of Mourning: The Eternal Wind
Dancing Mad

PowerOne
Staff Roll

............................................................................... Gumshoe.

HM's for the poll, because they were at least two matches removed from retiring:

FestA of PandemoniuM (net 2 votes)
Journey to Candle Hill (net 3 votes)
Samsara (net 4 votes)
for you (net 4 votes)
Techno Syndrome (net 4 votes or net 9 votes in TB)

Hopefully I got them all.

Vast Ice Mountain Peak / The Frism
Back in Time / Sayonara (ALL PHASE MIX)

That's a vote for Frozen Grounds. I sure wish it was a match between VIMP and Frism (frozen+prism, get it?), though!

Man, I love Sayonara to death now. It's probably top 50 in the contest if I re-rated everything. I originally was a bit averse to it because the first section (as well as other parts) relies solely on that new age epic chord progression, but it does so many proggy things that more than make up for that.

I was going to say those blasted Turbo Tunnel jumps from Battletoads...

Both are integral to case 3-5, and thus it doesn't make sense to vote for one without the other!

(okay, I went with Godot)

I'm not terribly happy about Specter's comeback, but... Can You Feel the Sunshine held on! My 12th favorite vgm in this contest has retired... given how anti-Haste many are, I wasn't sure if anything in my top 20 would reach round 5 at all. Year of Sonic R? (we'll have to see what Back in Time does...)

Can You Feel the Sunshine?
Trajectory of the Kiyarora Satellite (Long Version)

The former is my favorite piece remaining in this contest! (please win)

Paper Mario? At the very least it got ridiculed a lot by how it looked when it came out.

Yes, how terrible it was that Epicentre grew on me. If only the match took place last round!

Hell yeah, warp-wet-woods is the second strongest in that division!

Sunleth Waterscape
Epicentre

I previously found Epicentre boring, but I enjoyed it a lot this time around.

Master sir, did you see my MAD SKILLZ?

(yes, that is literally what came to mind first)

Lost Forest
abstain

The most perfectly crafted song left in the contest is Lost Forest...