Lurker > changmas

level 4:
chiefs/broncos 10+
dolphins/panthers 10+

bonus: AJ Brown

Isquen posted...

While I am not 100% discounting BCT just flat out lying, he wouldn't have known he received a gift.

I'm positing that Death gave BCT the bus driver gift, Death got to dictate the secondary target of the swap, and the secondary target was untargetable, so BCT gets a scrap of paper with a consolation prize instead of giving Death an "action failed." No roleblocks required.

you are just making things up now tbh. definitely not how it worked and really nothing to suggest it does

alrighty well if everyone feels that way i wont stand in your way

Sheep007 posted...

Can you pinpoint exactly what it is? Is it just the fact that FD has been putting in a good shift as a neighbour? Or is it because there's relatively little pushback against it (which is something I've also been considering)? Or some third more sinister thing?

the frustrations he's expressing feel real to me. maybe he's just an excellent fake for those kinds of things and certainly i have been tricked before (Han in xenoblade mafia, though external factors were different in that game).

but red basically marched in and took the day over with no pushback at all. maybe he's right about this and certainly you shouldn't let me stand in your way of a good lynch because of my vibe assessment, but he's also been intent on probing some other people (IGCD) that personally I don't think needed probing.

i guess i just want to be sure there isn't some sort of misdirection act going on here (and there very well may not be)

i mean, maybe i've just had the wool pulled over my eyes because he's a fairly convincing neighbor but something about this FD lynch isn't quite sitting right with me

the vibes are off

I mean, i dont think Ive totally ruled out the 2x kill on plum yet, though it is a bit strange

i agree with red on this point and i said it in neighbor chat last night too

i remember two he sent!

is it bad form for me to tag him? lol

CORRIK IF YOU ARE READING THIS POST SOMETHING IN THE DEAD CHAT YOU REMEMBER FROM OUR NEIGHBOR CHAT

maybe one of the gifs you sent or something equally unguessable

wait can you only view it or can you post in it too

depending on corrik's memory, peaf's role should be unfakable

htaeD posted...

He didnt need to use the item
I think Changmas will verify this as well
But even if he doesnt use it, the item will disappear once the night ends

yes this is my understanding

the one thing that's confusing about the BCT action ordering is like, if they were trying to RB IGCD, why would it let BCT know if he had no other actions

htaeD posted...

And uh no I can confirm there are no protection gifts.

Because its me. I am the giftgiver.

Pineapple Vendor, TOWN Coupon Dealer

Gave Changmas a Watch/Track night1 (I think its fine to reveal this now)
Gave BCT a different power night2 (should I reveal this? I dont know)
Have 1 coupon left and have not yet chosen a target.
A player cannot use a coupon along their regular night action, and I cannot give a player more than one coupon.

There's several reasons I targeted BCT
One, he claimed nilla so he wouldnt be bothered due to his lack of night actions.
Two, I wanted to see if this would make more active.
Three, he was not going to be killed either and die with his information.
Four, it was an item that could not directly benefit scum in a way they werent already benefitting. Plus if scum did use it, they would have to give up their normal night action.

ahh there we go

uhh maybe you're really trying to lay low for some reason but FD and I were pretty confident wallz should be the gift giver...

well, we could ask the gift giver if they know what's in the gifts they give. tbh it's also probably not that big a deal for scum to know who they are if they are in fact town.

i wouldn't expect them to have much more than 3 gifts in total, and it's doubtful scum has a day roleblocker to block them giving out a third one anyway...

wallmasterz posted...

Why does getting a gift make someone more trustworthy though?

it doesn't necessarily, but i suppose it depends on what the gift is and whether there's any scum power in having it. but generally if the gift is something useful i would certainly rather give it to someone i thought was town

ctesjbuvf posted...

This was where I was at as well. Poor Dumey.

But I still didn't get why BCT seemed to jump in likelihood of being town to you from this .

it feels like something he would do as town without thinking. scum would be a lot more concerned about a claimed vanilla player suggesting they were roleblocked as outting themselves imo

htaeD posted...

Well it may be imperative to know if the gift you got was something that could screw scum over.
Or at the very least if it was the same gift that Changmas got.

Not sure if either question should be answered yet tho.

well this logical conclusion was bound to happen at some point. i received a gift at the beginning of night 1, yes. which is how i immediately knew BCT was telling the truth when he instantly posted it when today went up, and how it was possible for a vanilla player to get roleblocked (my gift is also a possible action i can take).

that's also what dumey / the scum team failed to know when he made his claim. (e.g., if a vanilla received an action, they could scan as not moving and yet they could move)

that should clear up some of the secrets i've been keeping

htaeD posted...

Heck for all we know BCT was given an item for the same reason he was roleblocked, weird redirection powers.

wait no, this doesn't work. the gift shouldn't get redirected because BCT said he got it at the beginning of the night, before actions were due. the RB could be redirected though

if the gift giver felt very certain BCT was town (as I did), I wouldn't feel too bad about it

the roleblock on BCT is the one piece of the puzzle that truly makes no sense to me at all. it feels like it has to be accidental or unintended in some way

PeaceFrog posted...

By the same argument of "what scum team would target fd knowing that chang buried Dumey after seeing him at Corrik n1", what scum team would block a claimed vanilla bct unless they already knew that bct would be getting something powerful overnight?

Chang, was fd ever aware that bct would get a gift of some sort, prior to the n2 action deadline?

no, and neither was I. furthermore, FD has identified the gift-giver in neighbor chat for me and I agree he is definitely correct about this person's identify.

their decision to give BCT a gift on night 2 is certainly perplexing though and the logic isn't straightforward to me at all

i really should do work but i just can't stay away!!

htaeD posted...

Changmas is there anything in the neighbor chat that could have given FD a watch/tracker impression?

I didn't say basically anything about it at all until after actions were locked last night

here's the only time he really mentioned it during D2 (i did not address this with an answer at all)

"am I reading to much into your phrasing on "let's just say I know everything that happens in my neighborhood" or would you have seen someone Target me as well? Feel free not to answer and play it close to your chest, but I for now I'm assuming you wouldn't Gambit dumey as scum so I can trust you.
I would also hope that you would trust that I wouldn't have bothered going head to head with Corrik in this chat for as long as I did if I knew he was likely going to be dead anyways. Sure you could argue performative, but I just don't have that kind of time to bother with that sort of play."

anyways i gotta do work now, i'll be back in like 5 hours and hopefully we've sorted things out by then

although by the same logic i also possibly implied i could see people outgoing too but idk if that came across

well as should be evident by now i was bluffing about the whole "can see the whole neighborhood" thing i just chose to watch corrik specifically n1. so i can neither confirm nor deny whether isquen or anyone else targeted FD

i have to think that's the much less likely option here

surely scum team does not gamble the entire game on whether i can actually see everything that happens in my neighborhood and shoot (in this scenario, town) FD, right?

Isquen posted...

If this is red at the happiest place on earth, then I shudder to think of everyday red. If true, though, then my N2 target jumps a few extra scum notches in my book, yet it feels extraordinarily lucky that they would be the one to send out the NK if I chose correctly. I am not that lucky.

BCT, STP at :00?

stop stalling just post we dont need an STP

Leafeon13N posted...

Anyway annoyed awake red.

I fucking shot sbell dead night 1 and plum night 2.

Isquen probably blocked a fucking scum kill now lets move the fuck along.

thank you sir

Leafeon13N posted...

We're still conspiracy nonsensing. Can we stop.

what's the non-conspiracy explanation for someone sending a roleblock at BCT (claimed vanilla)

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Lea owning scum SBell is nothing new. It's happened like three times in a year now. Once she was a bomb and she claimed power to draw a kill, once she vigged him in that joke Han game, and now this.

I'm fine to Sametime with Isquen and will be available to do so in an hour. To clarify, I got the item at the very start of the night phase and my message did indeed say I was roleblocked. I will not elaborate further.

perfect, i don't need any more info than that from you. the real question we need to answer here is why BCT was roleblocked and who did it; and that's likely to lead us to scum. I don't particularly know that we have enough info to solve that yet, though

maybe it is 3P fear from scum?

ctesjbuvf posted...

I still think the most logical explanation is that an SK killed SBell and Plum. Maybe the answer is in who suspected both. I know you get s*** for bringing up SKs occasionally but people are humoring a goddamn PGO.

i would not genuinely consider this until we have a 2nd night of 2+ kills, knowing that scum team has already used their extra kill. (if you do reach this point and I am dead, BCT should be a suspect for SK but almost definitely not for scum team)

the most likely explanation based on the info we have now is that Lea killed Sbell by some unknown means. highest probability is prob just that she was a vig and they both hit each other. unless we have anything concrete to suggest otherwise I don't think there's much value in continuing to ponder that

ctesjbuvf posted...

Chang is pretty much near confirmed town from the Dumey lynch, unless he pulled off something similar to be in previous game, which I think he could, but we're not anywhere near a point where it's a thought to follow though.

Working from the assumption that Chang is indeed town and truthful, FD has to be town as well or Dumey would have had whatever knowledge about Corrik/masons Chang said scum didn't have. Further working from trust in Chang, BCT is apparently town too. I don't understand this, but I don't need to currently I premuse.

Isquen is jailmaster and targeted neither person we know got blocked. I think I need to Isquen to drop at least one of the targets, probably n2 is better. I think Isquen looked pretty terrible coming in yesterday and being this mysterious about a role that could be scum blocker is not a great look.

I think it would be useful to know because I'm gonna go ahead and be the person to say I doubt Plum was a mafia kill and then you can judge me for it. We went from three kills to one weird kill. While it's possible Lea can explain the SBell kill, it doesn't make the Plum kill less weird.

As far as I read it, Abacus/Isquen is responsible for neither block we know of, so that means IGCD would have something this night, right?

just to clarify this; FD did not have access to the info i was referring to yesterday. i generally think hes town and i did tell him today after actions were due but he should explicitly not be full cleared for that or any other reason related to me right now

oh i might not have explicitly said this but i think plum might have actually been immune to the SBell extra kill. it specifically said hes immune to bullets but SBell was doing time travel jutsu stuff to kill people / erase them from existence. But maybe thats all just for flavor and anything could kill him

idk anyways Im going to bed, be back late afternoon tomorrow (busy day)

i don't have anything incriminating on anyone today

i'm very convinced that BCT is town without needing any additional explanation. currently i feel that solving this RB situation is productive for figuring out the game but i'm also open to pressuring wallz / someone else to claim if we want to go that avenue

Isquen posted...

Nope, not me, unless he targeted who I did.

oh yeah, that's totally possible if he just got a generic "action failed" outcome instead of an explicit "you were roleblocked" message and assumed.

in fact that makes way way more sense than anyone, town or scum, choosing to roleblock BCT

my friend

Ulti is just a soul read for me

BCT I have legitimate evidence to support, I just would prefer not to share at this time

and i would prefer if he didn't share any more info for no reason

PeaceFrog posted...

I thought vanillas don't get told that they're blocked, anyway

oh right i forgot about this ok

BCT is 99.99% town just trust me on this. all will be revealed in due time

no one needs to clarify BCT, trust me on this

only just who rb'd him

BCT is fine

only thing is just who RB'd him, whether or not it was isquen

oh i'm saying guaranteed not because of any information i have but simply based on prior experience with ulti

UltimaterializerX posted...

Death is afraid of Sheep but he in your top town tier.

Yeah Im going to sleep.

:)

doing my lopen impression just in case

also my current prevailing crackpot theory on why scum would kill plum is maybe unfair to try and meta. but i'm guessing Sheepfear? it was unclear who he would be replacing and plum was the natural assumption due to...reasons.

who would be afraid of sheep though? Death, that's who.

but I digress

this is guaranteed town vanilla ulti btw dont even think about lynching him

and actually listen to me this time unlike day 1 where you lynched sultan despite my request

well the functional difference is that one of the three of us could have been scum all along

i think it's somewhat likely we're all town but can't fully rule out him being scum