Lurker > hockeybub89

Yeah, but their culture war has spilled out of the Internet and turned into policy.

I think people need to stop thinking you can seperate the Internet from "real life". The Internet is just people acting themselves but with a bit of detachment from physical interaction.

They also refuse to let their employees have health insurance for birth control for any reason because it offends them.

And they won't sell Halloween stuff because it's "demonic".

In literal current year

Republicans crying "Decorum!" will never not be hilarious, in an extremely depressing way.

COVxy posted...

Wild to think so highly of yourself and never consider that measures meant to measure merit might also or primarily be measuring something else. Smacks of "I peaked when I got my 1550 on the SAT" or whatever, tbh.

"Hey can you help us to the top of the wall? We don't have ladders like those people"

Joe Numbers: "Oh so we should just abolish the concept of merit? It's kinda bad that those already at the top took away your ladders, but we can't just help you get up there when you need to earn it on your own. I'm a compassionate person who thinks you'll appreciate it much more you fight your way to the top. Making it easier for people like you is just going to hurt you and society in the long run. You can have a nuanced, respectful debate with those that were keeping you down once you get there. You'll realize they were probably just misguided and confused and you can both learn from a dialogue. Life is too nuanced to believe conservatives are keeping people down out of malice. The woke liberals need to learn that you catch more flies with honey."

Smill With

joe40001 posted...

I think there is a reasonable person in you, a person who could have a calm discussion about sensitive issues, I feel like some part of the internet bubble has worked you up into a very emotional state, and honestly I don't think it's helpful or constructive for your well being or even your goals. And I do feel bad about it. I don't want you to feel as much intense emotional distress as it seems you are feeling. But I'm not sure if there is anything I could say or do to even help you in that regard. Because I think the version of me that exists in your head is some empathyless monster.

Oh how did I miss the post? I don't give a fuck about any "Internet bubble". I came to my own personal conclusions and it's beyond ridiculous for you to be stubborn to a fault about things you know nothing. about, but accuse everyone else of not thinking for themselves. You can take your fake concern for my well-being and my goals, and your condescension, and do something that violates the ToS.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I think it's funny for Mr. Nuance to think a surface level "They don't say the word genocide on the government website" proves not a single politician is disagreeing that trans people deserve human rights. A nuanced critical thinker wouldn't be so shallow. I was told he hates basing opinions on headlines.

joe40001 posted...

I also disagreed with the idea that calmness with them was effectively a lost cause. I think calm rational discussion is almost always going to be the best approach.

Yeah and maybe the Allies could have talked to the Axis in 1943 and avoided the war that was already being fought for years. You do not care about trans people. You are cold and emotionless and it doesn't make you a good debater, it makes you heartless to a fault.

You can look at people suffering and being oppressed and you'll hold out your hand and tell them "Let's go find who is hurting you all and have a calm debate with them. They're probably just confused on the facts and looking for a sense of belonging. There's probably a few things you could learn from treating them as people with nuanced brains rather than enemies, too. There is no attempted genocide. None of them are trying to legislate away your rights."

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

"But did they explicitly write 'I hate trans people and will personally behead them with a hatchet'? I am a very nuanced debater that doesn't just look at things on the surface level."

Person 1: "Black people should not be slaves. Anyone who supports slavery is evil."

Person 2: "Black people are barely more than animals and they benefit from slavery. It's pure biology."

Joe Numbers: "Neither of these people seem to outright hate black people. Person 1 has their heart in the right place, but is being as stubborn as the other side. Person 2 cares about them being alive. Let's unpack the research that led them to this conclusion. Very few people are actually hateful. If we calmly unpack everything, we'll find a nuanced middle ground that all can agree on."

joe40001 posted...

Again, I see statements like these as painting with too broad a brush.

Like what specifically do you mean by "trans rights"? The right to live? The right to not be victims of violence?

Because I don't know of a single politician anywhere who is disagreeing with that.

When you put it all in one big bucket IMO it's not helpful. Most people who commit acts of violence are clearly hateful, most people who calmly raise concerns about HRT for children are probably not hateful.

You can disagree with them strongly, and you have that right. But just in general I don't think it's helpful to paint with an overly broad brush, and act like there's this monolith of people literally looking to commit genocide.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Send me to a Republican's page who is putting "mass genocide of LGBTQ+ people" on their policies page and I'll certainly retract my claim.

...

I don't know if I want to keep talking about this. It's an emotional issue for some people, and while I do believe in the productive value of calm discussion and engagement with those we disagree with, idk if I want to risk causing somebody too much upset by trying to unpack it all.

I guess what I'll do is only respond if somebody explicitly wants to talk to me about this. Otherwise I think I've said my piece about this video. It is an interesting an thought provoking video, and definitely an interesting discussion.

I hope we as a society land on the solution that is most helpful and least harmful to the most people.

You could have just said "I don't give a flying fuck about trans people" and saved us all the trouble. When politicians are calling doctors and parents who support gender-affirming care pedophiles, when states are opening up snitch lines to report trans people, when they are forcibly detransitioning people and outlawing transition, when they make it illegal to "dress in drag" in public, you don't get to go "I think this is a nuanced issue where a lot of people calmly share their valid concerns and need to be addressed with an open-mind".

This is fascism. Anyone who "disagrees" on trans people, LGBTQ people, and their human rights is an immoral person void of empathy. You know what the solution is when someone has a concern about the LGBTQ movement? To shut the fuck up and move on with their lives! I'd hate to have seen you in 1930s Germany.

wackyteen posted...

I feel like you'd be surprised how often people make good judgement calls while driving. If people were half as bad as others make them out to be, driving would be so dangerous you'd die with 15 minutes flat

Bad, selfish drivers require others to react for those accidents to not happen more often. I feel like I deal with 3-4 cars per week that would have been involved in a serious accident if I didn't react quickly enough. They drive without any regard for the rules of the road and will fucking scare you into submission with their complete lack of self-preservation. They assume you care enough about your life and your car to not total it or get someone killed, and thankfully they are right, but it's such a fucked way to handle driving a multi-ton death machine. It's like firing guns randomly in public and assuming everyone else cares enough to duck.

Something needs to be done. This is purely the human element at fault.

joe40001 posted...

Agreed. Early on that card was so powerful that people legitimately played it defending Ghostbusters 2016. "You only hate it because it stars women." When like, no, it's just a movie that sucks.

And a lot of the arguments never made sense, like "men dislike strong female characters", and like T2, Aliens are super beloved and always have been. Mad Max came out in 2015, and the same people who got called "people who hate strong female characters" from 2016-2021 loved that movie.

Some of this woke shit was honestly just brands realizing they could be lazier if they tried to turn criticisms against them into political nonsense. Sure Disney filmed near like a Chinese concentration cap for Mulan, but she's a girlboss now with no weaknesses, so if you dislike the movie you are a bigot!

It's ridiculous that it ever kind of worked. But I'm glad it's just about done.

Pretty much every major video game company in the 2010s had a story of wanting to replace or minimize a female character because they believed women don't sell video games. Ubisoft alone did it to like 4 straight Assassin's Creed games

Stop crying about wokeness and maybe people will believe you are a person with opinions that matter. You come off as an embarrassed conservative, but the current GOP won't let you on the team, so you pretend to be a liberal concerned by how out of control "wokeness" is because some angry feminists online annoy you and somehow represent some widespread issue.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

No, but people who try to gang up and harass somebody they don't agree with or try to make them lose their jobs or reputations are pretty bad. Or the people that mock and dehumanize those people, etc, for any perceived slight

Maybe they shouldn't disagree on trans people then

Keon Lennedy
Vill Jalentine

joe40001 posted...

I've got through to some.

And it's clear to me that a decent amount of the most vocal people here just read headlines, usually from the same kind of sources, and take it as gospel truth. There was just a topic about something, and people were overtly saying "X person should be imprisoned" based on the headline, but if you looked at the article it was clear that how it was being interpreted was not in alignment with what actually happened.

But after I pointed that out there were no responses.

There's a good Obama quote I like, which was "If I watched Fox News all day, I'd hate me too."

A lot of people, and this is a very much "both sides" thing, just read headlines that validate their perspective, take the headlines as gospel truth and react accordingly. And well, basically, if I took all the same headlines as gospel truth, I'd hate me too.

So even if I think such people are wrong, I at least can kind of understand it.

But what I can't do is get through to people who legitimately say "I ain't reading that" to anything more than a few sentences. If somebody is completely not operating in good faith or even reading anything that challenges them, you by definition can't get through to them.

I'd be open to calmly talking to just about anybody here, and I think we could make some progress, and both learn from each other. But first you'd have to find a person here willing to have such a discussion, and I think many such people have been driven away, and some of the most vocal people aren't interested in that kind of thing at all.

But I think there are still plenty, and probably more than you'd think. It's just unfortunate that the least constructive people on the internet are often the loudest.

You were dressed down over and over with regards to your ivermectin bullshit for like years and you just kept sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Oh when will anyone engage in logical debate with me and convince me with facts rather than emotional arguments just like the side they claim to be better then?" You can't even talk about LGBTQ issues without "both sidesing" it! You know what? I don't give a fuck what the other side thinks! They're wrong and I'm not debasing myself by justifying the truth or my existence to people that have no interest in learning, no matter how much enlightened centrists like you try to shame me for "being the same way".

You'd start a debate over whether vegetables are a food if you felt the "pro-vegetable" movement was getting too stubborn and religious-like in their "beliefs".

joe40001 posted...

Nah, there are things in the woke movement that I think we will very likely be cringing at in the future. Like trying to remove the idea of merit, removing standardized tests, ideas like Kendi's, etc.

If you take any idea, stick "progressive" on it. That doesn't make it good or future wisdom. Same way that if you took any idea stuck "patriotic" on it, didn't make it good back in post 9/11.

That's what it feels like to me, btw. When trying to push back on some of the crazy parts to some people. Saying "what you are advocating here isn't progressive, it's dumb/dangerous" to a person who is all-in on these ideas, feels identical to what I'd imagine it would feel like to say "what you are advocating here isn't patriotic, it's dumb/dangerous." to a person pushing the patriot act in 2001.

It had the word "patriot" in it so they don't want to intellectually engage in it beyond that.

And these days the thing is called "progressive" so they don't want to intellectually engage in it beyond that.

And IMO that just a very low resolution way to exist.

There is no such thing as a woke movement. Please refrain from posting until you discuss the real world.

If posting fanart of a video game does someone in, then we better kick every politician in America out of office for their sins.

Really sad how much the GOP fucking hates trans people

The headline is generally under or over exaggerating the body.

joe40001 posted...

So, hockeybub, what is your argument? Because you are on the block bubble too, frankly.

Is your argument that I watched a 2 hour video, showed respect to the person making the video, and thoughtfully engaged in the ideas expressed in it, and then shared the video here... because I'm a hateful transphobe?

I know more than 5 sentences might scare some people, so I will try to be concise, but what, if anything, are you suggesting about me in this topic? Because you clearly have some strong opinions you are trying to point at, but I can't for the life of me figure out what you are trying to say.

It took you 5 posts to use a female pronoun. You are consistently on the wrong side of things and like 90% of posts are nonsense that agrees with right-wing conspiracy theories. Please go ahead and burst the bubble. I'm never letting go of your ivermectin/HCQ bullshit.

Vyrulisse posted...

You would be correct in your assessment.

Bill Maher will never love you.

joe40001 posted...

How is he enabling the far-right?

By constantly complaining about how far "woke" has gone, which spreads the culture war bullshit that the far-right invented to justify oppressing and killing minorities. Anyone who disagrees with me is quite literally my enemy and a threat to every fiber of my being. At least the fascists give me the courtesy of not pretending to be anything else.

But Freeze Peach

joe40001 posted...

np

It's an interesting watch if you aren't usually exposed to that kind of content.

We all know you aren't exposed to that kind of content.

Medussa posted...

"yeah, i misgendered her half a dozen times, but here's how i'm the victim."

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/2/7/AACJCFAAESFD.jpg

He literally didn't use a single pronoun for like 4 or 5 posts. There might have been a single "they" in their somewhere.

Reminds me of the people who cry about pronouns these days who used to go out of their way to not use gendered language for any LGBTQ person that made them uncomfortable. They loved singular they back then.

joe40001 posted...

I'd say it's more like "classical liberals who are willing to call out the left, and don't sign on to the excesses of some of the woke nonsense."

Which is similar to what you are saying, but stated in a more charitable (and I think more accurate) way.

Besides the parts of the left that he pushes back against often aren't being "progressive", those parts sometimes oppose free speech, and reject certain things that defined progressivism up until like the last few years.

I think somebody like Bill is being a lot more intelligent and close to reality than anybody who subscribes to "Democrats can do no wrong." Which is not what I'm saying people here are necessarily arguing, but seems close to what is coming up in criticisms of Bill.

Bill Maher is a stupid piece of shit masquerading as a concerned liberal who thinks "woke" has gone too far. Fuck him and anyone like him. He might as well be an out far-right nutcase if he's going to enable them.

Shut the fuck up, Joe Numbers

Gwynevere posted...

I fear greatly for the partners and loved ones of those who say "idk we're missing context here"

Like what context would make it acceptable to go off on your spouse about not doing her wifely duties

It's like seeing clear systematic bullying and going "idk maybe the jerk kid was asking for it?"

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

You're wrong. It's abuse. Shut the fuck up and be wrong silently.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Mods, can you please do your fucking jobs?

Pancreatic cancer is horrible. RIP

I had no use for his show, but he was just a person with loved ones who will be missed.

Wizards have magic, but they also live in hiding and act like it's eternally 1885. Muggles win.

Murphiroth posted...

Again, please explain in what possible context the undeniable abuse in the video is justifiable.

No one is jumping to conclusions you goober, the video is right fuckin' there, you just...don't think it's abuse I guess? It objectively is but chuds gonna chud.

He knows he can't say she maybe deserved it without getting nuked, so he'll play concerned centrist.

MICHALECOLE posted...

There is no room for nuance

you can do a thousand good things but if you did one bad thing once youre forever condemned

No one gives regular people that much "nuance", but when you have lots of money and power, people will make excuses for the awful things if you spend enough money or kiss enough babies to look good.

Bad weighs more than good. If some random jackass committed armed robberies, no one would be going "But he was a hard worker and gave back to the community. Do a few bad decisions tarnish his entire character"

But if someone has a lot of good press and donates millions to various charities? Why, they could get away with murder (maybe even literally) in the eyes of people who like them. "Would you rather they had helped no people just because they didn't help some certain people? Are they really bad just because they did a few bad things?"

Even being a good person appears to be a privilege of the rich and famous. There's some kind of implication that they are just inherently better people because they have weight to throw around.

Kinda pathetic that people are such blind fanboys of loudmouth politcal pundits that they'll give their heroes leeway that they wouldn't give some stranger they see on the street.

If you see a parent cussing out their child and smacking them around, you wouldn't go "Well until they are convicted of child abuse in a public trial by a jury of their peers, we shouldn't be making negative judgments of anyone. Maybe the parent is having a bad day or the kid is truly a lost cause!"

But if that parent got paid millions of dollars to call LGBT people pedophiles corrupting the land? They'd have legions of defenders accusing their opponents of perpetuating a complex hoax.

tommybel89 posted...

Lmao a lot of dweebs here.

There are so many fucking dumbasses on the road. Fuck driving. If we aren't going to move to self-driving cars and completely ban people from driving themselves, then we at least need to hold drivers far more accountable. Driving is a privilege and millions of people take it for granted.

Lots of people will say "I trust myself more than a robot." Well, no one fucking trusts those drivers. They drive with their heads stuffed so far up their asses that no wonder they think they're the main character on the road.

Driving is amazing, when you don't have to deal with other drivers.

womp womp

Any day all these good guys with guns will do something about all the gun violence.

Good for them. Driving on public roads is a dangerous and miserable experience. We can't advance to self-driving cars soon enough. I'm so tired of people.

wanderingshade posted...

Maybe if it was as good as the flu vaccine usually is. But you know what didn't help? The fact it took a years to even get above 60% vaccinated for the whole country.

Flu vaccine efficacy can dip south of 50% on a bad year. It is far from ironclad. The COVID vaccine have been much better, but like you said, took forever to even get a majority of people to get a jab

ForsakenHermit posted...

I can't take people seriously when they say that breasts aren't any more sexually attractive than any other part of a woman's body at all.

Everyone isn't attracted to women, let alone women's breasts

He still didn't explain how Aloy is a homophobic caricature of a lesbian.

HylianFox posted...

"You're discriminating by not discriminating!"

This is some serious '1984' shit: "Slavery is Freedom!"

These are the same people who scream "individuality!" and then cry that LGBTQ people questioning norms and being "special snowflakes" is actually part of an agenda to undermine the state. Because the only way to protect individuality is to discourage individuality and put the state above all. Too much individuality leads to no individuality, or some shit.

Open heart surgery sounds pretty gross when you think about it.

goatthief posted...

Can the corps plz stop dumping their plastic in the ocean?

Well I guess it's fine for people to be rude, disgusting, selfish assholes if there are even bigger assholes out there.

--Zero- posted...

I remember in the 90s when people had ash trays in their cars. I wonder if that prevented smokers back then from tossing them outside or not compared to today. I do see it daily when I drive and its pretty sickening.

Yeah I guess cars don't have those anymore? They can still figure something out.

Agent_Stroud posted...

Not a smoker myself, FYI. I just know you have a better chance of solving world hunger than getting smokers to behave themselves while on the road.

drag, tap, drag, tap, drag, tap, drag, tap, drag, flick, repeat

Like... fucking stop

Remember when people were talking about the Super Bowl? What happened to that?

Keep them in your fucking car. My windshield does not want them.

I'm not saying no one ever throws other trash out of their car, but I'm not seeing soda cans and Starbucks cups fly out of windows daily.

My dude saying people are literally paid Democrat shills on CE. lmfao