Lurker > HannibalBarca3

I believe it's a jacket I had made a bit back by my tailor. I believe it was a pure silk sport jacket that came up to 1.7k. But the current project he's working on will be closer to the 2.7k mark.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

It's not necessary nowadays. Even more formal companies don't require them for their work uniform and for social functions you can get by with just a collared shirt and pants.

Unless you like wearing them or are a hobbyist I see no reason to own one if you don't want one.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Doe posted...

The Spartans may not necessarily have been good warriors due to their rejection of philosophical education stuff, but they were certainly a warrior culture. There's basically no Spartan art besides like a statue supposedly of Leonidus because of how their lives were. Regardless of the infanticide, kids were taken from their mothers when they were young and they lived in barracks, weren't given enough food to survive (encouraging them to steal and preparing them for marches without sustenance), and trained all the time. Even the women trained because they thought a strong woman would give birth to strong babies. IIRC they say they didn't wear shoes because they hoped to strengthen their feet that way and not need them.

I dunno how much 'admiration' of Sparta there is. The sacrifice at Thermopylae is an inspiring event and helps create the Greek idea that they (the Greeks as a whole) were a superior people and culture, but mostly Sparta seems to be referenced because of what daily life was, not because of true military feats. If anything their main feat was oppressing so many enslaved people, there was like 10 oppressed persons to 1 Spartan, and their lives were grueling. But they get a happy ending when Sparta weakens because they go off to form IIRC Megalopolis which was the 'melting pot' before America.

From that, yeah Sparta does drop off in power and isn't exactly what it used to be, but its prime was super militaristic

I don't believe what you're describing could be called a barrack. What I think you're describing is what is called the syssitia which is basically a place where members of the leisure class hung out to drink, dine, have fun, and do exercise. The difference with Sparta is that they made it mandatory for their citizens to spend all evening there than head home later. As for the Spartan's state education, they were teaching them to be good citizens more than actually training warriors. They were thought to endure hardships and be obedient to their elders. As for training, there's nothing to suggest they actually trained in martial affairs and we even have others saying they didn't train with their weapons.

if this skill in arms is an accomplishment (...) I conceive that if there were anything in it, it would not have been overlooked by the Lacedaemonians, whose only concern in life is to seek out and practise Plat. Lach. 182e

In fact we have no proof that individual Spartans were better fighters than other Greeks. During their occupation of Thebes young Thebans were encouraged to take the Spartans on wrestling and we hear that the Spartans banned wrestling later. During their height the Spartans only won once in combat sports but won 11 times in chariot racing in the Olympics.

Another thing to take into consideration is that Spartan citizenship was tied to how much wealth you had. It wasn't tied to how well you did in combat or how much martial skill you possessed. The times we hear of Spartans surrendering in battle we never hear of any punishment in fear of causing a civil war among the citizen body.

What made the Spartan's formidable in war was their organization, formation drill and their ability to maintain cohesion. While other Greeks went into battle running and screaming the Spartans went into battle calmly, marching in step to the sound of flutes which terrified the other Greeks. Their ability to submit to military discipline gave them the edge. As Xenophon harshly criticizes the Athenian levy:

Ah yes, and strange indeed it is that such men submit themselves to their masters, and yet the infantry and cavalry, who are supposed to be the pick of the citizens for good character, are the most insubordinate. Xen. Mem. 3.5.19
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Also forgot to add a quick summary since I made too long of a post: He makes the point that Greek warfare was all about the slaughter of your enemies. Their whole thought of war revolved around the annihilation of the enemy. The point being is that there never was any limited or ritualized warfare, there was no formalized way of war. There was only butchers seeking to do the most amount of damage they could.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

I've been reading Classic Greek Tactics: A Cultural History by Roel Konijnendijk in which he attempts to sketch a new model of Greek warfare that reflects the cultural values of the Ancient Greeks instead of the old model made up of assumptions by German scholars all the way back in the 19th century.

Basically it's based off the heretical view of Greek warfare that rejects the old agonal warfare model. The orthodox model of limited, ritualistic warfare, of unwritten rules. He's not writing anything new but he does try to tell it in the context of Greek culture. He writes of brutal and bloodthirsty battles, of ambushes, deceive and treachery, of completely untrained and undisciplined hoplites who rejected any sort of military training and their uselessness without the support of lightly armed troops and cavalry, and how commanders had to deal with the completely amateur nature of Greek warfare. As I said, it's not anything really new.

However, what is really interesting, imo, is the last chapter of the book. In which he describes the real nature of trophies and truces in Greek warfare. From the sources we have we always hear of these two practices right after battle. However he is quick to point out that the setting up of trophies always occurred after certain time had passed. The reason for this is that the setting of trophies occurred when the victorious army had chased their enemies as far as they could.

The rest of the army returning with Clearidas from the pursuit stripped the dead and set up a trophy. Thuc. 5.10.12

The Athenians did not pursue far, being held in check by the numerous and undefeated Syracusan horse, who attacked and drove back any of their heavy infantry whom they saw pursuing in advance of the rest; in spite of which the victors followed so far as was safe in a body, and then went back and set up a trophy. Thuc. 6.70.3

He points out that the Greeks always chased their opponents with glee and as far as they could. He makes the argument that the slaughter that followed the rout was the whole reason the Greeks engaged in battle. He posts some passages to highlight that point:

And the Lacedaemonians were in no uncertainty about whom they should kill; for then at least heaven granted them an achievement such as they could never even have prayed for. For to have a crowd of enemies delivered into their hands, frightened, panic-stricken, presenting their unprotected sides, no one rallying to his own defence, but all rendering all possible assistance toward their own destruction,how could one help regarding this as a gift from heaven? On that day, at all events, so many fell within a short time that men accustomed to see heaps of corn, wood, or stones, beheld then heaps of dead bodies. Furthermore, the Boeotians of the garrison in the port were also killed, some upon the walls, and others after they had climbed up on the roofs of the ship-houses. Xen. Hell. 4.4.12

For, you know, when states defeat their foes in a battle, words fail one to describe the joy they feel in the rout of the enemy, in the pursuit, in the slaughter of the enemy. What transports of triumphant pride! What a halo of glory about them! What comfort to think that they have exalted their city! Everyone is crying: `I had a share in the plan, I killed most'; and it's hard to find where they don't revel in falsehood, claiming to have killed more than all that were really slain. So glorious it seems to them to have won a great victory! Xen. Hiero 2.15-16

Furthermore, he highlights a key passage on the nature of trophies:

After this the Syracusans set up a trophy for the sea-fight and for the heavy infantry whom they had cut off up at the lines, where they took the horses; and the Athenians for the rout of the foot driven by the Tyrrhenians into the marsh, and for their own victory with the rest of the army. Thuc. 7.54.1

This explicit passage reveals that the trophies the Greeks set up were not about victory but about the slaughter.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Paper_Okami posted...

zH0mPfR posted...

Stallion_Prime posted...

zH0mPfR posted...

Could be worse. Try being an Asian man in America.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-apos-justice-department-threatening-181934061.html

Try being latino or black in america.

You mean one of the two minorities that Democrats will shut the government down for?

imagine thinking that Asians in America have it worse than Black and Latinos. this is objectively wrong. Historically wrong, and presently wrong.

Depends on what you mean by "historically wrong". I'll grant you that it's not comparable to the historical struggles of the Afro-American community but to say that historically Asians had it less worse than Latinos I think it's not true.
You only have to look at the 19th century. Acts like the Chinese Exclusion Act aimed at banning Chinese immigration into the U.S. The Immigration Act of 1924 which completly banned immigration from Asia, and I believe this wasn't repelled til the 60s, the "yellow peril" movement which was Orientalism seeking to see people of the East as different and as a threat to Western society, and of course you have the internment camps during WW2.

That's not to downplay any discrimition faced by the Latino community in the States but it's to my understanding there were never any outright bans placed on countries south of the U.S. border. And discrimination was commonplace for all immigrants coming into the U.S., even those from Europe. Anti-Catholism and anti-immigration was ramnpant in the early 20th century and it lead to very heavy restrictions on Eastern and Southern European migration in the 1920s.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

daftpunk_mk5 posted...

HannibalBarca3 posted...

1.7k custom jacket. The fabric just by itself was $750 as it was 250 per yard. It's pretty nice fabric, pure cashmere.

This guy. Haven't seen you in years.

I'm still around for the most part. Usually just lurking.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

1.7k custom jacket. The fabric just by itself was $750 as it was 250 per yard. It's pretty nice fabric, pure cashmere.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Alucard188 posted...

Ic3Bullet posted...

Which do you like better so far TC?

Fallout 2 has a greater challenge to it, and I'm seeing more variety in random encounters already. Things escalate quickly, though. Everything is so much more aggressive in FO2, and I'm running into Enclave patrols at level 2. So much for random meandering. >_>

If you're seeing Enclave guys you're wandering too far to the south. Well, unless you're trying to get Power Armor early.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

SamuelHayden posted...

HannibalBarca3 posted...

Nah. I have a thicc accent and a foreign appearance so it doesn't phase me when people ask. However I've been asked by Mexicans and Central Americans where I'm from due to the my Spanish accent, some even asked if I'm from South America.

and where are you actually from?

Mejico.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Depends. If it's something fairly basic, not really. But for clothes made by my tailor, it is a very good feeling.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Nah. I have a thicc accent and a foreign appearance so it doesn't phase me when people ask. However I've been asked by Mexicans and Central Americans where I'm from due to the my Spanish accent, some even asked if I'm from South America.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

The PhD historian he worked with is a frequent poster and moderator in r/askhistorians and he's part of new research in academia which seeks to separate the real Sparta from the theme park version of Sparta. I hope he does another collaboration with the historian on Greek warfare.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Generally most RTW clothing will be made for the general public. If you have, say, longer arms than the average person you might have trouble finding clothing that hits the correct point without alterations. But some of those are common alterations. Some brands carter towards a specific type of body so doing some searching helps. Not tall nor skinny but a big problem with Ready To Wear clothing for me is that I have pretty square shoulders and most clothes are cut for sloped shoulders so I end up with bunched cloth on the collar area.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

lol are there really Slavic Neo-Nazis? I hope these guys know what Mr. Hitler had in store for them if he had won the war. Imagine 80% of Poland exterminated via famine and mass murder just to make way for German colonists. Adolf Hitler viewed the Slavs as sub-humans and if he had it his way they would've been either killed, enslaved or deported to Siberia.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Well, what allowed North Africa and the Levant to fall to the invading Arabs was the Byzantines exhausting their resources and manpower fighting the Sasanian Empire
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Teddytalks posted...

Monolith1676 posted...

UncleBourbon33 posted...

Back when people had class

And was crushing their bodies with corsets and the only women who walked outside was whores. Yup. Very classy.

I remember reading from a fashion historian that the way we view corsets is exaggerated and that they weren't uncomfortable. I'll see if I can find the link.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

They would cope by using materials such as linen and cotton. A popular fabric was the Palm Beach Cloth fabric, now non-existant, which was often white or beige and that was suited for hotter climate. Of course, a thing to remember is that suiting fabric back then was much much heavier than modern day fabric. Modern day fabric weights less, I think the average fabric weight is around 8-9oz, which makes them suitable for modern day wear with our indoor air conditioning and stuff like that. In contrast a lot of fabric from that era was heavy. I own a pre-ww1 jacket and the fabric is heavy, very heavy. But the advantage of heavier fabric is that it holds up after time, it drapes better and it wrinkles less.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

I've had a few jackets made this year by my tailor. I just got back from seeing the new tissue shipped in, it's a pure cashmere fabric, and it's real nice.

Here's how it looks in person.


And here's how the cutting stage looks when the cutter or tailor cuts the fabric based off the paper pattern if anyone is curious on the process.

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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Not enough to be honest. I almost choked on a piece of meat once.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Depends Trickfinger posted...

Nope, not the word I'm looking for

It specifically described those big ass baggy suits guys wore in the 50s

I think the correct term is called "drape suit". I should know, I've own quiet a few of them from the 1930s to the 1950s. The style came from Dutch tailor Frederick Scholte and became popular in the 1930s,1940s,1950s,1980s and 1990s. It differs greatly from the earlier cuts of the 20th century as it's usually nipped at the waist with drape in the chest(you see the cloth bunching vertically in the chest) and it has extended and padded shoulders. It gives off a masculine silhouette. In contrast to the previous period which had much tighter cuts. To the modern eye this may seem oversized but it's not.
Here's an example with some other cool styles like the belted back.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7c/1a/89/7c1a89a063ca7e7f02d520c08f8ee6bd.jpg

There was a more extreme version of the drape cut called the "bold look" as seen in this illustration from the late 1940s and 1950s.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/a2/de/e2a2de0f0fe71a5e44996b83f7678c7d.png
Oh and also the zoot suit is based off it too but it's also extreme.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

Didn't that movie get leaked. Maybe they can watch in their comfort of their home
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

eheu
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

BlackHorse6969 posted...

Bat178 posted...

Even though both English and Spanish are European languages...

european spanish and latino spanish arent the same

What's the difference aside from accent
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

It's too time consuming and expensive IIRC. The guys behind it had to remortgaged their houses in order to fund the game plus the game was in development for years.
It makes the game look authentic to the era and the backgrounds were done with watercolors but nowadays it's just not viable when there's much quicker and cheaper alternatives.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

A handgonne
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

I've been getting thoughts like that too. I worked at a healthcare center for 6 years and saw people pass away, including some good friends of mine who were residents there. I remember seeing a woman that was very close to death, she was over 100 years old. I dunno what to say, I hold religious views so that's a bit more comforting for me but still.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)

I like the modern version better. But I haven't seen the miniseries in years.
Still, both ignore the book, right? Like the thing about the turtle and that one giant 12 year old orgy.
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010)