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#70 - Gravy's Angels Created by: Gravy

Mag - Fuckin - Neto (Xmen)
The Juggernaut (xmen)
john stewart (green lantern)
the silver surfer (xmen/fantasic four)
nova (nova)
dark phoenix (xmen)
mr freeze (batman)
shazam
Gambit

Several people decided to nominate teams of favorite characters and call them "So-and-So's Angels". Every single one of those teams dropped around 5 rankings as a result. The exception is this one - and that's because it's so bottom of the barrel bad already that I felt bad lowering beyond the "We don't understand that the same character duplicated a million times isn't fun" tier. But I digress. "ME LIKE THESE CHARACTERS THEY MUST BE GOOD TEAM" (Trademark Tamina) is perhaps the worst possible way to construct a superhero team out there. I'm torn as whether to discuss how building a team should work at this point, but suffice it to say, "My Favorite Characters" is not a good system. Even worse, the clear failure to even attempt to obfuscate that concept behind a name that could disguise the group with even a simplistic concept is irritating.

Gravy takes it a step further by not even thinking about who he's jamming into a group.

Dark Phoenix is functionally one of the worst possible characters you could ever put on a team. Either you have a character with godlike reality manipulation, something that utterly destroys any sort of stakes to the comic, or you have a crazed woman who will refuse to work with the rest of the group. Jean Grey may be evil, but she still hates Magneto. That's a gutteral, visceral reaction. And given that Magneto is the guy here with real leadership skills (don't pretend that "I just fire mah gun" John Stewart is anything more than a glorified yes man to whichever Lantern is top billing this week), Dark Phoenix is murdering the team effectively to get to him. Not that this team will work with Magneto. Mister Freeze is going to walk away from this group quickly because they have nothing to do with Nora. Shazam is going to blow himself up trying to stop Dark Phoenix if she's at full strength, and Surfer/Nova are also going to be put down by Phoenix likely. Surfer is maybe durable enough to survive, but he's not much of a team player in the sense that he never sticks around with a group when they have any tribulation.

Oh, and Gambit is not going to be in the picture once Magneto shows up. You almost could have something if you quick out Freeze, Jean and Magneto. That's a team I could maybe work with. But instead, I've been saddled with something that is akin to throwing darts at boards and accepting the results.

If you just stop and look at this line-up, you'd see that much like Okonkwo's village, things fall apart. It looks like Gravy's Demons are shouting down his better Angels.

Membership Drive: These Angels teams can't be adjusted because they are based on simplistic wish fulfillment. I can't make Gravy like another character. The concept of this group lies entirely in "My Favorite Characters". Instead, I would disband this team and just give the slot to the Legion of Super-Pets because at least they aren't going to murder each other at first sight.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Anagram posted...

I would normally bow to your superior comics knowledge, but Im 100% sure you can find panels of each of those guys throwing things at moving targets in the air.

The superior reflexes part is true, though.

Of course you can. But Hawkman is A) one of the biggest veteran heroes ever, B) has heightened reflexes and C) Nth metal wings that allow a lot of "physics-breaking" things.

Hulk has to pick up a car to throw it, and it's in that motion that Hawkman can ready himself to move. Hulk doesn't have super-speed. If this was Power Girl throwing a car, I'd lend this more credence. But Hulk functions at a normal speed to turn around. I could dodge you picking up paper and throwing it at me. A car is like paper to Hulk, but he still takes to time to throw it.

Now if you had one single eye-beam/wrist-light/lantern-ringer in this bunch, I'd cede you can hit Hawkman. But we don't.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Anagram posted...

I feel like the Hawkman dilemma can be solved by throwing cars at him.

Hawkman moves much too quickly and has much higher reflexes than any of those guys on the ground. Not to mention that he operates in three-dimensional space and they operate in two-dimensional space.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#71 - Badass Normals Created by: Pirate Harris

No powers but they can still kick your ass.

The punisher
Iron man
Batman
Lex Luthor
The joker

Hi, you've just created a team with the two most iconic villains in the DC Universe and called it a superhero team. I'm Common Sense. You're Pirate Harris? We haven't met before.

Conceptually, a hero/villain team-up can work. We've even seen Lex Luthor flip sides to great success for multiple years at a time. But that's a bend in the alignment system, and this is a break. There are certain villains you can work with, and there are certain villains you can work with when you don't have other villains. Instead, we have a hodgepodge mismatch of personalities and alignments that don't just create internal conflict, they destroy any chance of momentary harmony as a team.

Batman and Joker together is about as no-dice as you can get with comics. And that alone didn't sink you this far. Lex Luthor and Batman together is generally a no-dice situation. Given that Batman is the natural team leader of this group, both Lex and Joker should be immediately fired from the group. Joker should be obvious; this isn't the Silver Age anymore, and Joker isn't going to happen about Batman in a single issue of Brave and the Bold and decide to team up with him. Lex Luthor, of course, tried to frame Bruce Wayne for murder, tried to take over Wayne Enterprises in a hostile corporate cold war, and then there was his attempt to buy Gotham City that was foiled by Bruce. So those two are out immediately. This is followed quickly by Punisher thanks to Batman's no guns policy. And lest we forget, Batman and Iron Man didn't play well with each other in JLA/Avengers, so expect that to seal the deal here. Batman is a great character, isn't he? He just single-handedly ended this team before it began.

And on top of that, the team concept is that these are normal people? Well, I hate to break it to you, but these are anything but normal people. Batman is jokingly referred to as Bat-God. No one realistically thinks of Batman as anything but the zenity of human fortitude. Iron Man is a billonaire, as his Lex. Punisher would try to kill these billionaires for the various perceived slights against the working man, because, you know, he's the fucking Punisher. He's a crazed blood-addled monster and far from "normal". And calling the Joker, a man who is actually three men, normal - and an immortal, no less - is staggeringly not getting the concept of the team you're making.

Normal people who are badass would include folks like Lois Lane or Rick Flag.

Membership Drive: I really can't fix this team easily. I would likely wipe the field and go with a Forgotten Heroes style roster. Jimmy Woo, Lois Lane, Cave Carson, Adam Strange, Rip Hunter, Ben Urich... that's the kind of "normal" person we're looking for when we make these types of teams. Otherwise, I think it's a concept rooted in failure by its very nature. People don't really read comics for teams of normal people. That's just like going to work.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#72 - "Big Guys Breaking Stuff" Created by: Johnbobb

A team of big strong guys who primarily break things

Hulk
The Thing
Hercules
Blob
Colossus
Juggernaut

Pirate Harris isn't far removed from this team of large individuals who brutishly hit things and have very little introspective personality. What separates this group from the previous one is the lack of a member so heinously ill-equipped to be a team member so as to render the team completely null right out of the gate.

But that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. This team is an example of not understanding team dynamics on a fundamental level.

Let's take a look at this team past page one. Because the last team couldn't even make it through the first page. This team is going to make it through an issue and say, "Hey, we may not all work on the same side of the law, but there comes a time when this sort of brute strength on a massive scale is necessary." So they decide to go out and buy a headquarters. They get it all set up (by someone else because all of these guys suck at any detail-oriented project), and then on the distress signal comes in the first case. And I'm going to make it super-simple: it's Hawkman.

And here's where it gets fun, because this group of massively overpowered dumb-dumbs can't even deal with a dude with wings. Ground-bound (and don't give me the "Hulk can jump argument"; Hulk is not able to anticipate rapid movements, and no one else in this group can either) and brainless to the umpteenth degree, they'll start arguing with each other immediately since they are all alpha jocks with the caveman-mark-my-territory attitude. They immediately fall prey to in-fighting thanks to failure. Hercules is a great character with a team of less egocentric individuals. Juggernaut could even function in that sort of group. Putting them together with Hulk is an accident waiting to happen, and the remaining members are either toothless quiet men who just get swept up in the fight (Colossus) or lazy and likely to take advantage of the hostility to break a law (Blob). So because no one can touch Hawkman, they all blame each other and give up. Because that's the personality type. If the brain overheats, it's all over.

"But that's what I want!" you say. "I want a funny team that falls apart!" you claim. Well, kiddo, you'll find some much funnier teams falling apart that are way more viable as concepts on this list. I'm not adverse to humor. I'm adverse to stupidity. And this is a team where itsdialogue does the universe a disservice by even existing.

Oh yeah, and if you provided a name for you team, it better not suck. This one is terrifyingly bad. Names should provide some quality of either brevity or stature. This makes the group look like a joke right out of the gate, and not even a good joke. It's an Epic Movie joke, not a Shaun of the Dead joke.

Membership Drive:
First and foremost, I'm cutting Hulk. He provides no value on this group at all. If you wanted Hulk as a dedicated scientist, then you should pick someone who is truly a dedicated scientist and not prone to transformation at the most inconvenient of moments. This group features a significant amount of mutant fun, so I would drop the Thing for Strong Guy in keeping a little more thematic. Hulk would see a replacement in M, a female mutant with super-strength and also a rational mind. I could see her finding a breakout role as team leader here, taking down the rowdier members with some adroit displays of how strength can be used tactically. I'm happy to keep Hercules as the oddball of the group, but honestly, he would probably leave the group early on and be replaced by a C-List mutant to whom you want to give credence.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Lopen posted...

Awesome write-up. Poor Thing :(

Also man seeing how you dumpstered "here are a buncha guys that do the same thing" I feel like I can predict the bottom 10 or so ha ha.

What is interesting is that "doing the same thing" isn't necessarily a dealbreaker if the characters have a wide variety of personalities.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I think it will be more fun to be surprised, that's why I put all of the nominations in a document.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Oops, just a typo on my part. I'll fix it.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#73 - "The Bodyslamers" Created by: Pirate Harris

Brute force is this teams motto.

The hulk
The juggernaut
Doomsday
The thing
The absorbing man
Abomination

Hoo boy, where do I start on this one? This is one of the least diverse teams I have ever seen in my entire life, and that's a terrible, terrible thing. Consider that the greatest superhero teams feature a variety of roles in which multiple characters can fill. I'll probably hold all of these teams to certain high criteria: Justice League, Suicide Squad, Planetary and the Authority. These are, generally speaking, the varieties of superteams that exist.

What makes this team fail where those teams succeed? Because a superhero team is supposed to develop characters or promote them as valuable and unique alongside other characters. It's why you hardly ever see two Green Lanterns on the same non-Corps team. It's why Flashes never come in pairs (except for Don and Dawn, Irey and Jai... never mind). This is a group of the same character done six times. In fact, not only is it the same character done six times, but there is only one archetype in terms of personality here. Either they have a personality and it's pretty much just wrestling with the duality of man and monster (what is the man, what is the monster) or it's a cardboard cut-out character that is designed to have little to no personality.

I can't even think of a reason the Abomination and the Hulk would work together. Why is Doomsday on a team without a mind-controller keeping him in check or giving him purpose? Doomsday would murder the Thing and Abomination, cripple the Juggernaut, and ultimately end the team before it began. Absorbing Man just wants to go home, probably, and that leaves us with a solo team book right out of the gate.

"Hi, I'm the Thi-" *insert the sounds of breaking rocks and a scream of utter agony*

That was page 1.

But, truly, the biggest problem with this group is the lack of diversity. I'm not even talking racially or gender-wise (although I do think that from a superficial perspective, that does help liven up a group). I'm just talking about how all of these guys are going to go around punching things. Teams need finesse; they need leadership. A comic book series requires a variety of potential solutions to problems. The Avengers don't always clock the bad guys with a well-placed fist. There is pseudoscience, magic, stealth, tactics, diplomacy, creative uses of well-trodden powers. All of these things go out the window with HULK SMASH x6.

Membership Drive: (Wherein I attempt to fix a team with some roster edits)
So, the first thing I would do here is toss out Doomsday. Either you build the entire team around him or you do away with him. That's the primary concern. I can functionally speak with the rest of the group. I can at least create some form of dialogue. Doomsday requires special effort to make that happen. I'm also going to toss out Abomination; the handwaving I have to go through to explain to new readers or casual fans why this motherfucker is working with Hulk (who is notoriously hard to work with if he hates you), is ridiculous. In place of those two, I think I can work a quasi-Thunderbolts type of fisticuffs group. I'm going to add Doctor Fate as the MacGuffin creator and plot-repairman for the group in place of at least one of these guys. He can use his abilities to calm the rowdier brutes of the group, and he can simply avoid any potential consequence thanks to his extremely versatile abilities. He can point the plot in any direction you need. I'm also going to add a tech/support character for some comic relief in Ted Kord (Blue Beetle).
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Remaining Nominations:
Anagram - 3
DeathChicken - 2
Eddv - 6
GavsEvans - 4
Girgugamesh - 2
Gravy - 1
IHateThisCPU - 5
Inviso - 3
Johnbobb - 5
JONA - 1
Karo - 2
Lopen - 5
Mega Mana - 5
Murphiroth - 5
Pirate Harris - 5
Ratsel Harris - 5
Raka - 1
Snake - 5
Stifled - 1
Tangy - 5
Wickle - 4
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

The ranking is beginning!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/76878808
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

The Justice League. The Avengers. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Planetary.

Comic book super-groups have a fundamental foundation in our literature and our mythology. From the days of the Argonauts, we've been enamored with the concept of mythological entities, archetypes unbound to the convention of dreary reality, forming conglomerates. Titans, standing as collectives. Hives of authority. We dream these groups into existence for a host of reasons. Celebrity. Creativity. Security. What better way to examine society than through the lens of the gods? Whether allegorically or through the pulp noir of condensed prose, comic book teams have always embodied or presented shifts in culture that humanity has needed to tackle. The Fantastic Four defended us from threats scientific in nature. The Teen Titans were a coming-of-age story for those who needed a hero experiencing the same shift in development as them.

I asked the Board to go wild in creating their own superhero teams. The thread that follows is a result of that clarion call. I will attempt to rank these potential teams of gods and monsters, and I apologize if my own point of view differs from your own. I will try to fairly parse out what I think is potentially successful and what isn't using my own personal metrics of comics. Hopefully you all won't think I'm being too tough on your concepts. I'll take a look at several different key factors. Potential cohesiveness as a team, diversity as characters, conceptual creativity, and a general Scarlet factor all will play roles in determining where your rosters drop on the list. That final category is, of course, the wild card amongst the rest.

I hope, much like my wrestler-ranking list, you'll all join me in discussion and conversation as we go from ranking to ranking!

Without further ado, the potential teams:

List of Proposed Teams
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vpzNqyTc51iGf2iPX6WkX6sqjU6t70I3FEejn-HHQ3s/edit?usp=sharing
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

PrinceKaro posted...

Red: First of all, Rainbow Brite is incompitent.

Frame it.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I've seen a lion.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

v_charon posted...

That said, maybe it's healthy to have a list of garbage to rank sometimes.

I think you can do it, like, once. After that, you've experienced bad. You have a baseline. Let's try not to reduplicate the efforts. Let's attempt to excel at making lists better, maybe?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I would do the same thing, but I feel like that might dishearten the listmaker. You really are a generous man.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Also I have a weird feeling that Chris Daniels vs. Stephen Amell is going to be a great fucking match.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Being the Elite this week:

Billy Gunn
Cameo by a literal ghost
Stephen Amell responds to murder accusations while no-selling the murder victim
Diamond. Dallas. Page.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

ALL IN: Briscoes v. SCU
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Tomorrow is the day.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Genny posted...

I promised charon I would move this movie at least four spots up my list for one single line

Charon forcing another gauntleteer to rank this higher should go down as the biggest example of corruption in Gauntlet Ranks history.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

_SecretSquirrel posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

ZenOfThunder posted...

Yetai

Tony Schiavone?

This would be the greatest night in the history of Smash.

At the end of matches, we get a message saying "WE'RE DESPERATELY OUT OF TIME!"
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Echoes also kind of lead to the possibility of skins and color swaps with more variety, like Zora armor from Twilight Princess (as an off-the-top example).
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Completely agree with this. I don't think Batman is that strong primarily for that reason.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I don't think Marvel fans and DC fans would at all be interested in rallying or anti-rallying.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

She would be pretty awesome tbh
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

No, adding a LOST character would be like adding a Murphy Brown character when LOST was actually on television.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

As a stand-up comic, joking about death can really kill with an audience. Of course, sometimes it can die with an audience.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Look at HCA pretending he has posting standards.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Wtf no way.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I mean, it will suck because Negan will just plot dodge every killing blow.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

MMA is actually shittier without him now as the biggest star. This year has honestly been pretty bad across the board in terms of holding my interest in UFC.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

ZenOfThunder posted...

Yetai

Tony Schiavone?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I just can't enjoy him after he participated in that thuggery.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Who else was included in the leak, out of curiosity?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I know that we're not an MMA topic, but dammit I want Conor McGregor to lose so badly.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Still planning on Tuesday.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Spiner might not be able to film it since he will have a conflict, being a recurring character on Supergirl and all.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Someone from Current Events, so that should explain enough.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Oh, I'm not interested in Kass. Revali only.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Temba, his arms open.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#NeverForget

https://imgur.com/a/C5ZK949

Now is the time to join Operation: Highwind and help the greatest of Cids sail to victory.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I could not be more hyped for this.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Revali or gtfo
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

1) Edward Kenway
2) Reyn Time
3) Jade
4) Garrus Vakarian
5) M'aiq the Liar
6) Balthier Bunansa
7) Cid Highwind
8) SHODAN
9) Maybe Murderess just because
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Should get this started on Tuesday.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Can't Stop by the Red Hot Chili Peppers

Actually a lot of the Chili Peppers discography
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

This is actually a real thing that I can get outside sites to really characters for.

Nice!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

The feud between Ulti and Corrik is an extremely interesting and unexpected one.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer