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I am also reminded again that the truth doesn't matter. Someone should count how many times they said 'cat box'. Yawn.

Oh NOW you're saying that knowing the truth, that everyone is already dead, will help Ange move forward as she didn't have to cling to false hope anymore. This makes total sense. Would have saved a lot of trouble if this was the idea from the very beginning.

This would be much better if Ange has this realization during Battler's game, or before she opened Eva's diary, and went to her family of her own accord.
Instead she believed in Bernkatsel, helped ruin the game board, immediately rejected the truth after reading it, and committed suicide. And despite all of this, she returned to the family, decided she had a future after all, and never had to live with her decisions.

All this time it was implied that she won't be with the family as presented by Battler if she read that diary, that she chooses her own path. Well, her choice actually doesn't matter at all because she got handed a miracle anyway! Give me a break.

There's memories of Rokkenjima and the family and how the incident is getting popular, I'm more and more convinced this is Battler.

It then shifts back to Ange, who was very conveniently found by her family in the Golden Land. You know, it's really hard to feel anything about these characters dying when this happens all the time. She 'would float in oblivion forever in anguish', and then moments later this happens. Does this mean Ange is dead dead, in the real world too and therefore reunited with her family?

This amnesiac is likely to be some character I know - Battler was 18 in 1986, and I think Shannon and Jessica are the same age? Making this take place in 1986 too. After all, none of the family's bodies were confirmed after the accident. Add the fact that this person likes mysteries and fights about it....

(Instead of calling the cops, or helping this person find their family and friends, she decides to confine some random injured person in her house. I don't think this sort of thing is allowed)

Hachijo Ikuko picked up someone with amnesia. This person is 18 years old. My first thought went to Ange, but Hachijo would have recongized her.

The Hachijo I knew has Ikuko's face and the name of Tohya. What?

I didn't think she would open the book. She learns the truth, and then goes berserk, refusing to accept it (after going on and on about how Battler is wrong and destroying the game). Then she jumps off the building and dies. Or did she? People never die forever in this game.

And of course, that single truth is kept hidden from the reader. This is the worst case scenario - Ange knows, I don't, by very in line with Umineko's tradition of not telling me anything.

I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve by getting Ange to come to the Golden Land, she's just going to get killed like everyone else. Oh, right, she wanted to die anyway. Unless they can't be totally destroyed if Ange refuses to open the book lock?

Like, I won't be mad if it ends without revealing a single truth, maybe a bit disappointed, but the theme of 'one truth Bad, cat box Good' is so in your face

And Ange is having second thoughts, she sure changes her mind a lot

For the record I do not appreciate being compared to fucking Erika and a bunch of evil goats who are out to kill the entire cast, just because I want a single truth

Earlier, in the car, Ange said she wanted revenge by finding out the truth. That was after Eva died
Now the game is saying she stopped wanting revenge after Eva died

This game keeps on developing Ange and eventually throwing it away. You know, people never truly die in this magical world, you can turn them into meat and revive them over and over. Bern can do that to Ange and say she fulfilled her promise to let her die.

Now it's saying the truth is worthless

Bern must have some power that makes people around trust her. Battler wants to makes friends, Ange keeps going with her plans, and Erika has stockholm syndrome. And this is after Bern screwed them multiple times over.

I'm willing to bet that Bern's red truth is yet another trick. Like guaranteeing Ange will be the first to read it, and by 'read' it means for a second before stealing it or something.

Hachijo must hate her cat a lot to make it such an bitch in her stories, if it is really her stories.

In the first place, accepting that your family is dead doesn't have to mean you can't imagine them watching over you or that you can't have a better future. But that's what Ange thinks, so what can I say

Welp, she has lost it. Her mental state isn't suited for a single truth.
This has pretty much thrown away all her development in episode 4. Let's have readers go through a loooong journey of enlightenment and understanding of magic with Ange, then have her say it was worthless in the end! Lol

The argument that Ange should live on in the future and you know, not die, is sound. What's this crap about hoping for a miracle that one of them might have survived though, no sane person would keeping thinking this could happen after 12 years, and it is important to accept her family's deaths if she were to keep living on.

I mean, obviously I don't know whether the single truth will be shown, but it's heading in the direction of 'nope'

Ok, what I'm getting here is that... Hachijo wrote all the stories from the first episode to the last, and now she plans on giving Eva's diary to Ange to see what she would do to finish the story. She even put herself, as Featherine, and her cat, as Bernkatsel in there. She never opened the diary though so why did Featherine say in red that the diary contains the truth. The is all my speculation btw.

I get why they don't want Ange to find out the single truth, there are many things in life where you are better off not knowing than knowing. But Umineko players don't have a personal stake in this, it's not like I'm going to be emotionally hurt or anything, it's two completely different situations, you can't tell me 'what's the point of knowing the truth' after I spent like 400 hours combined on Umineko and this topic

Beatrice fights Ange. You know, I'd rather have Battler against Ange, that would be something.

Back to Hachijo's room - this episode is all over the place - and Bernkatsel is her cat? Just like the magical people are the illusions made by Yasu, the entire cast and story of Umineko is a illlusion made by Hachijo for her books, based on the Rokkenjima story? I mean, the Ushiromiya family are real people, but are Kinzo and Yasu and everyone else's backstories real or not?

Next up is Battler vs Erika again. Wouldn't be a last episode if everyone doesn't get a big sendoff.

It's kind of like the end of episode 4 with all those ridiculous murder methods. This is probably going to be quick, and the chained-locked-room mystery isn't important to the overall story, so I won't rack my brains out solving this myself.

Some of the magical beings represent fantasy - they are illusions of Beatrice and the people around her. The others represent mysteries - I don't know where they came from, maybe a personification of mystery rules?

Then Battler shows up with his Golden Sword. Wow, I thought the game completely forgot about that it existed, he used it once in episode 5 and that was it. I don't even remember what it is supposed to do.

They're going to escape to the Golden Land, now that's a place I haven't seen or heard of for a while. Still have no idea what it is supposed to be or represent.

What even is the problem of speculating in the future anyway, it's not like Battler's 'truth' is more legitimate than the truths of the future. Didn't Battler just say his game isn't the truth either?

Ange just gets worse and worse as I go through this episode, now she is teaming up with Bernkatsel to kill everyone on the island including his brother. Why is she made the 'bad guy' for wanting a Single Truth? Am I the bad guy for wanting a Single Truth?

Ange's witch outfit looks terrible.

I fail to understand how Battler keeps on letting Bernkatsel into these games and think it would all fine, that she would come around and be friends, and not be wary of her even a little bit... after a while it's just stupid.

Nothing good comes out of Bernkatsel's mouth, so Ange should definitely NOT find the Single Truth. But she would rather believe some asshole witch than her own brother.

So here I am wanting to know what happened, and it feels as if the author keeps implying that 'no, single truths are bad, look at this cat box interpretation, anything could have happened, isn't it brilliant?'

It's just a test to see how much you can withstand the truth, I'm going to help you now after bullying and slicing you into bits and laughing about it. Yeah right, as if anyone would -

Ange is buying into it without question. Thought you were better than this.

'It's possible to form a logical theory other than that of Rudolf's family'
Well yeah, I formed one of George's family and Maria's family!

'George can commit murder outside the island'
Oh, it's another of those solutions that looks for loopholes in the red truth.

Evatrice and Erika... pairing up... and make a heroic entrance? What has this game come to?

Battler, Rudolf, and Kyrie as culprits, definitely designed to hurt Ange as much as possible. This is why Bern didn't seem to mind her puzzle being solved.

Now there is a 'Rudolf's family culprit theory'. The game is trying very hard to drive this home in the past few hours. Yes, I get it already that outsiders will form different sort of theories on what happened based on what little evidence they have and can completely make shit up, can we move on from this? From a storytelling perspective, it would be awful if the entire incident gets reduced into a bunch of theories.

The hints pointed out that Bern gave the red of 'the culprit of the first twilight killing 6 people' after the second twilight, so that culprit killing 4 in the first + 2 in the second is what the game is going for? But it can't straight up say that the culprit killed 4+2 because that would be too easy.

I had fun with this puzzle. Some of the purples could have been made less confusing though

Finally I reloaded a save to get that achievement. Cheating sure is fun.
All this thinking tried me out, stopping here for today.

Tom Bombadil posted...

Not really a spoiler but
I think it's like 18? By the time you get to the end they pretty much straight up tell you.

Whoops I didn't see your post before typing out mine. Yeah I guess they need to tell you in case someone can't figure it out and get stuck in this part.

Went and looked at all the hints because why not. They say the children couldn't have committed the crime in the second twilight - why not? It doesn't stop them from leaving Natsuhi's room because an adult is there to lock it.

There are 21 hints in total. It's similar to my thought process until the middle where I simply brute force it.

Yes, I finally got it.
Used two hints, not quite what I aimed for in the beginning, and I don't know how many hints there are in total, but that should be pretty good I guess?

Nope, it's wrong, maybe you guys can find out why. Anyway, I'm certain that I'm correct in how the closed rooms were made.

-Eva, Hideyoshi, Rosa, Genji were killed by Rudolf. Rudolf and Kyire played dead.
-Rudolf then killed Natsuhi and Krauss and stayed. Kyrie left the mansion before it was sealed.
-Battler killed Shannon.
-Kyrie killed Kumasawa, Gohda and Nanjo.
-Kyrie killed Jessica.

This means the culprits were: Rudolf, Kyrie, Battler.

The culprits are: Eva, Hideyoshi, George, Rosa, Maria

A possible scenario:
-Eva kills Rudolf, Kyrie and Genji. Eva, Hideyoshi and Rosa play dead.
-George killed Krauss. Hideyoshi killed Natsuhi. George left while Hideyoshi locked the door from the inside. Eva and Rosa left the mansion.
-Maria killed Shannon.
-Eva kills Kumasawa, Gohda and Nanjo in the guesthouse, making it 6 people.
-Rosa killed Jessica.

I went through the whole story again and can't find anything wrong with this. Time to select then.

-3 in the dining hall were killed by culprit 1. Culprit 1, 2 and 3 played dead.
-Culprit 2 killed Natsuhi and stayed. George killed Krauss and left. Culrpit 1 and culprit 3 left the mansion.
-Maria killed Shannon.
-Culprit 1 killed Kumasawa, Gohda and Nanjo, making it 6 people.
-Culprit 3 killed Jessica.

This seems to work? Let's check some purples.
-There is nothing wrong with Battler's statements.
-George lied about no one killing Nanjo in the guesthouse, and Maria not killing anyone.
-Maria lied about George not able to kill an adult.
-The other people's statements are all fine.

Next up is to go back to the first twilight.
-George lied about his parents, so Eva and Hideyoshi are culprits.
-Maria lied about her parent, so Rosa is a culprit.

It fits with the 3 culprits playing dead!

-3 in the dining hall were killed by culprit 1.
-Culprit 2 killed Natsuhi and stayed. Culprit 3 killed Krauss and left. Culrpit 1 and culprit 3 left the mansion.
-Battler killed Shannon.
-Culprit 1 killed Kumasawa, Gohda and Nanjo, making it 6 people.
-Culprit 3 killed Jessica.

Doesn't work because the George and Maria's parents will all be dead and you can't have 3 people playing dead.

Another piece of narration I missed: George, Battler and Maria couldn't have killed Jessica.

Another shot:

-4 in the dining hall were killed by culprit 1. Culprit 1 and culprit 2 played dead.
-Culprit 1 then killed Natsuhi and Krauss and stayed. Culprit 2 left the mansion before it was sealed.
-Battler killed Shannon.
-Culprit 2 killed Kumasawa, Gohda and Nanjo.
-George killed Jessica.... nope.

How about this:

-1 person killed 5 in the dining hall
-He then killed Natsuhi/Krauss in the room, locked the room and stayed inside. George killed Krauss/Natsuhi and left. The first culprit, therefore, has 6 kills.
-Maria killed Shannon.
-Gohda and Kumasawa were killed by... um... shit. George and Maria can't kill them, and the first culprit is shut in. Nope, doesn't work.

It isn't necessary for the culprit to break into the guesthouse, they can enter it before anyone else and hide there. So statements about the guesthouse being locked is not necessarily a lie. George said 'no one could kill Doctor Nanjo inside the guesthouse' is a lie either way though. I think George is highly likely to be culprit.

They never checked Natsuhi's room to see if anyone was hiding there! All the culprit had to do was lock the door from the inside and stay put. The culprit doesn't even have to leave the room, he can stay there as the door gets sealed. The rest of the murders can be carried out by another culprit.

The above theory would make Battler a culprit since he lied about Jessica's death, but there is no one left for him to kill. It wouldn't work after all.

I can approach this from the number of people killed. After all, each culprit, except the first, must kill at least one person.

If one culprit already killed 6 people, then the rest of the murders have to be carried out by someone else.
He must be the one who broke into the guesthouse and killed 3 more - George and Maria can't do it.
This leaves Shannon/Kanon and Jessica as the victims, and George and Maria as the culprits.
Geroge can't kill Shannon; so Maria must have done it.
George has to kill someone, so he killed Jessica.

This seems to fit, but I have to check a bit more...

Hold up - if that culprit hid in Natsuhi's room and joined the group as they entered, wouldn't everyone see him? I think I can assume he slipped out after the door was opened.

I think it's obvious that someone was playing dead in the dining hall for the first twilight. This would allow a closed room. Basically, they killed the rest of the people there and locked the room. This doesn't go against the red truth of the culprit of the first twilight killing 6 people, since they could have killed more later.

How many were actually dead in the first twilight? 8 more people died afterwards, so it can go from 1 person to 5 people. The most reasonable scenario, I think, is that the culprit killed 4 people among the 6, then went and killed Krauss and Natsuhi in their room, making it 6 people in total. The culprit then locked Natsuhi room door, hid in the there until in was unlocked, and joined the group AS THEY ENTERED, bypassing the red truth of 'no culprit joined the group AS THEY LEFT'.

Assuming that George and Maria are culprits for now.

What's troubling is that it's not clear if their parents are dead or not. Their confirmation is not guaranteed to be lies. George's parents can be both alive, only one alive, or both dead.

I've thought of a way to get around the master key dilemma. What if Natsuhi's room was not locked after they were killed? Then Gohda comes, he locks the door, and unlocks it again, that would still be fine.

If George is a culprit - he also lied about Maria never killing anyone.
If Maria is a culprit - that statement about George not able to kill an adult can be a lie.

I don't see their purples contradicting those of the innocents.

Battler, George, and Maria couldn't have been the culprit from the fifth to seventh twilights; in addition, George can't be the culprit of the fourth twilight either.

For the fifth/sixth twilights, Jessica said the cousins and Nanjo can't be culprits. The narration says the guesthouse was sealed. So someone must have broken in and killed Gohda and Kumsawa. However, George says the guesthouse was still completely locked up, so that would be a lie - unless the culprit locked everything again, but I don't think the game wants to trick me like that.

There is a similar situation with the seventh twilight. Both George and Maria would be lying in this case.

Fourth twilight: Who killed Shannon + Kanon? Gohda, Kumasawa, Nanjo and Jessica were innocent, so they couldn't have done it. Jessica said George couldn't do it either, which must be true. One of the fake deaths in the first twilight could have done it, or Battler or Maria.

Going back to the first twilight - it is now confirmed that it is a locked room, and none of the servants are culprits, so at least one of the bodies in there are faked. The problem I have is with the second twilight: if none of the servants are culprits, and no one else has the master key, how can there be a locked room? Whatever, I'll ignore it for now.