Lurker > handsomeboy2012

For now I'm going to call Kinzo's child 'Yasu' before it gets confirmed who this is
Don't want to look silly if it somehow turns out to not be Kanon

End of chapter 2.

The witch was Yasu's imagination. She looks like Gaap because that was Yasu's idea of what a witch looks like before he knew what Beatrice looks like. What really happened was that the others were bullying him by hiding things.

There are 9 chapters in total. That's going to take quite a while...

I'm used to seeing traps in Japanese media. So for me there really isn't anything too strange about Kanon looking feminine.

Genji didn't tell Kinzo about the baby surviving because he didn't want Kinzo to fuck his own grandchild who is also his child. That makes sense.
Wouldn't that imply Kanon is actually a female? If Kanon was a male, there is less need to hide it, surely even Kinzo isn't depraved enough to fuck his grandson. Then maybe Lion is a female after all?

That would also mean Jessica x Kanon is both incestuous and lesbian.

I really ought to stop. Yeah, it's just my imagination running wild, there's no way it can get this bad...

If Kanon is Kinzo's son, it would make make him Jessica's... uh... half-uncle. And half-cousin at the same time.
It would be incest on top of incest if they hook up.
This is no longer a family tree, more like a family stump

Genji bringing Kinzo's bastard onto Rokkenjima as a servant was a mistake IMO.
He is made to work when he isn't old enough to do it properly.
His education is going to be negatively affected.
Some of the servants aren't going to treat him very well for being different.
It's going to cause an uproar if the family finds out who he is.
And let's say Genji tells Kinzo and Kinzo makes him the Successor. Everyone in the family will hate him and he would never do well as family head.

Lion = Kanon would also mean Lion is a male after all. This sucks.
I'm still called Lion a 'she' until it gets all confirmed.

Oh Kinzo never knew the baby survived, only Genji. Makes sense because Kinzo won't give a fuck about being discreet and would immediately tell the whole family about it. Guess the different hair and eye colour are to avoid Kinzo finding out the child's identity then.

I can see where this is going.
This is a world where Natsuhi rejected the baby, where Lion does not exist.
Since the baby can't enter the family as Natsuhi's child, Kinzo arranged for him to enter the orphanage and become a servant instead, and he was given preferential treatment.
So Lion = Kanon.
Few doubts after this however. I thought that baby died from a fall because of Natsuhi's rejection. Also, Lion and Kanon have different eye and hair colour... though it can be easily explained by hair dyes and contact lenses. Their attire is similar as well.

When did those 7 sisters of purgatory become servants
Shannon is there too. What? I thought this was 10 years ago. Surely she can't look the same as now. Just how old is she?
Well, the only person left who fits the bill here is Kanon. I don't think a new character is going to pop up now.

That person is kept hidden for now.
'Clair vauzof Bernard' it doesn't seem she is particularly important.
Orphanage... Gospel... is this one of those kids who went to work as servants in Kinzo's mansion?
It's 1976, ten years before the murders.
I have a pretty good idea who this person is now. At least, the suspects are narrowed down greatly.

Next up is the Beatrice that caused the crimes. Or the person that created the concept of 'witch Beatrice' and killed it.
Man I don't have a clue on this. I am not going to do anymore thinking here, give me the answer now.

Well I hope she's really a girl
It's funnier if a girl has a habit of pinching butts to make others behave

Fuck it, Im still going to call Lion a she
Lion should also be glad she didnt grow up to look exactly like Beatrice. It isnt difficult to imagine what Kinzo might do to her.
...wait, does it mean Lion is a guy because she doesnt look like Beatrice?

Lion's gender is unknown. I had always assumed her to be a female, for some reason.

Confession here: I have seen a fair share of incest-related anime and manga, so I'm much more... immune to this kind of stuff than most other people. But the incest here is on a whole another level.

Oh my god you can't be serious

Lion is
-Kinzo's daughter
-Kinzo's granddaughter
-Beatrice (younger)'s daughter
-Beatrice (elder)'s granddaughter
At the same time.

What the fuck even is this family tree.

Kinzo had a strong desire for Lion to be the next Head.
Lion must be very important to Kinzo.
Where did that baby who is Lion even come from?
Is it because that baby is actually another illegitimate child of Kinzo?
Who was that baby's mother?
Lion is 19 years old.
1986 - 19 = 1967
The younger Beatrice - Kinzo's daughter - died at or close to 1967.
...
...
...
Shit. I don't think I want to continue this line of reasoning. I'll let the game tell me.

If Lion exists, Beatrice cannot exist, and vice versa. Because she is 19 years old....?

Let me quickly form a theory before the games reveals it. In episode 5 there was a baby that Kinzo gave to Natsuhi to act as her child because Natsuhi couldn't give birth to one yet. This is the world where that baby didn't fall and die, and that baby would grow up to be Lion.

I don't know how this would kill the witch Beatrice.

Interesting. You don't even have to put on a disguise to make Maria think you are Beatrice.
'Killing Beatrice' means that the person had stopped playing the part. But even if that person stops pretending, aren't there still stories and legends that the servants believe in? Can you really say Beatrice got killed?

Nevermind, it's getting explained now.
'Beatrice, the Golden Witch' is fact a concept.
That's exactly what I thought during episode 6, feels good to have this confirmed.

Will talked to Jessica about the witch Beatrice just a moment ago, and then Lion knows nothing about the witch... what?
It's episode 7, stop keeping so many things in the dark

The dining hall seating plan came up again so it has to be important. But I have zero ideas on what this has to do with the whole mystery.

This Jessica and VIP room incident is making the servants beyond suspicious. Is it to make Jessica believe in Beatrice's existence as well? Didn't really work that well though as she's not exactly convinced. Guess it did succeed in scaring her away from the VIP room and stopping her from prying too much.

Didn't Shannon meet 'Beatrice' along with Maria before? And now she's acting as if she hadn't really met 'Beatrice' in person. Is something being done in the VIP room and whoever started the stories don't want anyone to go there?

Reg posted...

There is literally a red truth calling him incompetent though...

I can't remember when that red truth happened. If it was said before episode 6 I could have taken it to mean 'Battler is incompetent in that very moment' or 'Battler is incompetent up until now' which can mean he has become less incompetent when he became the game master...
Anyway it will be a long time before the episode 6 gets brought up in-game again.

Again with Beatrice 'exists'. Sure if you think thoughts, concepts, and intangibles can exist.
The servants have encountered signs of 'Beatrice', if someone is trying to trick the servants they have to be someone living or working there. Strangely they don't really try to make the resident family (Krauss, Natsuhi, Jessica) believe in Beatrice.

The more I read I more I am sure the killings were planned long in advance, like feeding Maria's belief in the existence of a witch and Golden Land.
The motive is quite unclear though, the easy answer was it was for money and gold etc. but it is also related to how Battler committed some sort of sin...

My entire basis for Battler doing this intentionally is 'he can't possibly be this stupid' because I couldn't pick up anything that suggested he was putting on a huge act.
So it is either he really was an idiot (which was more like his personality), or playing elaborate 4D chess (which is also likely because he knows everything).

It wasn't revealed who was pretending to be Beatrice.
Rosa being the one would also have the problem of her meeting Beatrice in episode 2. However, I think anything shown about 'that day in 1986' - the main contents of Beatrice's games - are a whole different beast than what this episode covered so far and would take much more to understand (not simply tricks and illusions and disguises)

My theory about Beatrice being whatever her believers think her to be is more or less correct. It wasn't until episode 6 that I had this idea, but it's something.

Let's say the 'ruler of Rokkenjima' Beatrice was created for the purpose of carrying out the murders some time in the future. This would mean Nanjo, Shannon, Kanon, Kumasawa were all in the plan. Rosa too if she really the one disguising as Beatrice. Uhh... so many people being the culprit or accomplices doesn't seem right. Might be premature to say 'Beatrice appearing to Maria' = 'Beatrice used for murder'.

Maria was told to wash her hands and rinse her mouth as a promise to Beatrice.
Ok, nevermind what I said. This is definitely Rosa cosplaying.
She might be complicit in the murders. Or someone else found out and made use of Maria's belief in Beatrice.

Telling Maria about her 'lost power', and how it will take a long time to return.
That anti-magic toxin is probably some excuse this 'Beatrice' made up.
Seems like the culprit had been planning for a long time.
It's hard to imagine Rosa doing this now - she doesn't want Maria to believe in magic.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

They're going to talk to Maria on how she met Beatrice when both Beatrices are supposed to be dead.
I actually might have an answer to this. Anyone in the family would have known what Beatrice looks like thanks to the portrait. They could have dressed up as Beatrice and did some tricks for Maria. I think.... Rosa was the one who did that, I couldn't imagine anyone else able and willing to do this sort of thing.

Thinking more about it, that person might deceive Maria if they thought to make use of her to read letters when the murders start. It might not be Rosa after all/

Maria interpreted some Christian teachings to mean that her father was the Holy Ghost.
This is like... Maria being the daughter of God, the 2nd coming of Christ.
It's Christmas Eve right now. Coincidence? I THINK NOT

They're going to talk to Maria on how she met Beatrice when both Beatrices are supposed to be dead.
I actually might have an answer to this. Anyone in the family would have known what Beatrice looks like thanks to the portrait. They could have dressed up as Beatrice and did some tricks for Maria. I think.... Rosa was the one who did that, I couldn't imagine anyone else able and willing to do this sort of thing.

I find it hard to believe that Kinzo could single-handedly hide 10 tons of gold on the island before he bought it and the military didn't find a trace of it when incident gets investigated. Even if they don't know the gold exists.

And it turns out the Ushiromiya family crest was derived from Italian fascist symbolism...

The murders in 1986 had to be done by someone invoking the legend and image of Beatrice. The people who know the full story of Beatrice include Kinzo, Nanjo, Kumasawa, Genji. Rosa saw the daughter Beatrice but didn't know much else. Anyway, it is not absolutely necessary to get the full picture to commit the murders, so it doesn't help me narrow down the suspects.

I also thought about the epitaph. Can't remember much, but the 'homeland' or 'hometown' should refer to Rokkenjima, the place where he met Beatrice.

Right now it's more like an action movie than mystery. And it's still about the young Kinzo. This is going to be a long episode.

Raka_Putra posted...

Oh boy, it's always a doozy when people see Lion and Will for the first time.

I like them quite a lot. But it feels they're here as plot devices so that I don't get to see what's happening with Battler.

The whole understand tunnels and structure is a WW2 submarine base. Don't think you can easily reason that out from the earlier episodes.

Guessing right now that the Beatrice's father brought the entire Italian gold reserve to hide in Japan, and Kinzo got his hands on it later.

<I speak English> says Beatrice, who proceeds to talk with Kinzo in what is clearly Japanese.
Someday, I might hear Japanese VAs speak some decent English. That day might never come, who knows.

Is this whole episode going to be Will and Lion standing around in the chapel and asking questions.
I don't mind it that much but... this won't make a particularly exciting episode.

The Beatrice that lived in Kuwadorian thought Kinzo as a 'Father' - no, she was really her daughter - but Kinzo thought she is Beatrice reborn. He is raising his daughter to become his waifu. It's straight up (attempted) incest. Wow. It's also the same situation with Battler and Beatrice in the beginning of episode 6, not sure what significance this holds.

It took a long time, but this is actually an 'answers arc'. This pre-1986 stuff is straightforward so far, can't wait for the crazier answers.

Never mind Kanon also doesn't know Lion

Lots of Beatrices around here. Almost forgot about the one that gave Kinzo gold.
The 1st one should be Kinzo's mistress who died long time ago, the 2nd one should be his bastard who also died from the fall, and the later ones were fabrications from rumors spread by people. That's easy to understand, it's the later parts that get confusing.

This is a world created by Bernkatsel for the sole purpose of solving this mystery. She can do this but made Will do the solving. That clears up a whole lot of my confusion from earlier. And somehow, Shannon is self-aware but Kanon is not.

'Theatergoing authority'
I should have realized in episode 6 with Featherine, that's why that other topic was called the 'Theatergoing topic'.

Well, Theatregoing. I am used to it being spelt 'Theatre'. But Umineko uses Theater.

Rosa's meeting with Beatrice... let's see... this was in episode 3, and happened when Rosa was a child. Took them long enough to hold a funeral.
Did Beatrice die from the fall in the first place...?

And it looks like there is finally going to be answers in this episode. Battler knows the truth, so he wouldn't be asking questions and investigating slowly the find it; that's why Will and Lion exist.

Kinzo is still alive.
Battler - the human Battler, god knows what the 'game master Battler' is doing - isn't coming to the conference.
Everyone is fine with Lion being the Successor (why is she dressed like some butler?)
This is all very strange

I'm keeping this in mind but I don't want to waste too much time here. Moving on.

This 7th game feels very disconnected from the rest. Before that it is obvious the games are progressing one after another with Battler at the center. This one should be after the 6th but... what is Battler up to really? Does he want to go home at all? Is he still the protagonist? What is going to happen to everyone, are they stuck in this strange world forever?