Lurker > Lopen

What was the argument btw

I won't judge it for being dumb. Give me the gist
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I am SOLVING

Puns feels my solving energy passed from Cam, even if it was initially misdirected (maybe)
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Sheep007 posted...

You get lynched tomorrow, pretty much automatically, easy loss. If it's Puns you won't sway SBell, and same goes for if it's SBell. Or if scum leave Ulti alive for whatever reason.

Okay but how does lynching me today solve that problem

You're doing the same thing puns did with Cam I thought was dumb
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Though the fact I'm willing to listen to you on this whole Sheep thing should prove whatever the opposite of obstinence is.

Are you listening? I wasn't sure you were.
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Sheep007 posted...

If you lynch me we basically straight up lose if Lopen is town.

How ya figure?
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Lopen has pretty much said he wants a final 3 of me, you, and him.

No I don't WANT that cause town autoloses that. But I mean if it's you puns sheep tomorrow instead our odds of losing can't possibly be worse cause I don't see sheep not being lynched there either and I think maybe I can reason with one of you to lynch someone else, maybe?

I mean I'm kinda okay with whatever, a bit checked out right now. I think if puns is town we likely win and if he's scum we likely lose. I think puns being scum is too high probability for me to feel safe but not low enough for me to feel dread.

Moreover if puns is scum at least I can say I was the one guy to not call him obvtown. That's worth something.
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I feel that it is likely the fate of town to lose the game if sheep is town yes. Because you're obstinate about me being scum to the point where I'm dead tomorrow stone cold lock. Unless you're the last scum, I guess. Then maybe me and puns will figure it out and kill you. Though I imagine puns if town is shot tonight.
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(This is puns dumb lecture on role distributions getting to me, really. WIT DA SAMPLE SIZE OF ONE YA CAN'T ASSUME NUTTIN)
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Okay maybe like 1% 2 scum because double flavor godfather COULD exist. I GUESS
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100% 1 scum
0% 2 scum
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And by sheep being a hint at godfather I meant Cam's voldemort flip
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I never said sheep was cleared because he was a "flavor trap." I said if he was that would make a 1 scum setup more balanced, but intuition is that sheep could just as well be a hint at the godfather if godfather is careless and claims his real flavor

My entire argument for puns today was I found his vote post for Cam to be absurdly scummy as I could not follow the logic (and still can't) and he's been coasting on limited activity ala disneyland red

Some combination of Sheep idling out and puns cooling down and actually trying to build a case on sheep, and looking into who Tom drew the kill on (puns pulling that chris post was a catalyst as I recalled Tom saying Chris thought me and Cam were good to lead the town when I was trying to find hints last night), made me doubt my read. Enough that I said just martyring to try and lynch puns might be a mistake. That's really it.
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I'm not sure scum would risk playing around the survivor unless they were absolutely sure there was one. I think the survivor risk of getting shot would outweigh anything and they should actually try to scumhunt.
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You know what post doesn't make sense? You using "Soul Mafia" to justify voting me. Just vote Sheep and put the feeling out of your head that you're going to get some massive ego boost by "catching me" as scum cause I'm not scum.
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I'm as down on XIII as anyone but I wouldn't call him a noted bad user.
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In fact honestly

I think Sheep > puns > Ulti > Sbell actually makes more sense now. I was a bit too gung ho on puns. You look at the evidence, red's passive defense and the procession of the early suspicions on Hb, and Tom's kill draw in particular.

So I mean, we'll probably win either way. But Survivor, if you exist, you definitely wanna lynch Sheep today.
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And remember, this may be the most important thing.

If you think Tom used unscanned as his tiebreaker, he probably drew a kill from Puns, but Cam and Lea were unscanned as well so this seems less likely
If you think Tom used the judgment of Chris as his tiebreaker, he probably drew a kill from Sheep

I would say based on content Tom showed more inclination towards the latter, honestly, and that would have removed more potential targets and made it Sheep and only Sheep, so if you trust in Tom, Sheep is the guy.
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Anyway now I really am thinking it could be Ulti. This guy was preaching at me for telling red to skip posts and it's looking like he just hasn't been reading anything or really trying to solve the game. I don't think he's changed a read all game, just parks his vote on a lynch and does nothing with it. No one just autohammer tomorrow that's all I'm saying. Think about the game carefully. No one is confirmed town. Whoever played the last scum slot has done well.

Ulti has been playing the safe path all game. I think he's overjustified his vote on me to the point where it almost seems scummy, too. Researching a Cartel vs Mafia incident in Soul Mafia shouldn't do anything to confirm I'm scum from someone who isn't digging into it with bias out of the gate-- like in mafia I post so much you could probably pick whatever you want to fit whatever narrative you want to spin, which to me feels like the more likely thing to do rather than legitimately trying to obtain a lead from that. "Hey guys I was wrong, again, but look I thought about it."

SBell is... well, obvious why you could argue he's been scum. He hasn't done anything all game.

Puns just reread what I've been saying today.

Sheep, reread what puns said today, and what I've said previous days.

I think overall it's probably puns or sheep, but don't rule out SBell or Ulti. Really try and digest the game. I know this spreading paranoia does no good but I just don't have a rock solid lead on who the scum are right now. I think if you do simple comparisons of who was on what lynches the past 3 days it might be helpful, but yeah.

Scum probability is probably puns > sheep > Ulti > SBell but small margins. There should be no autowin flowchart here. Solve the game. Look at what little information we can get from the votes. I broke down the previous vote days on post 40 or so of this topic. Amusingly Cam was voted by all 4 of you yesterday and the three on sheep were me + two confirmed town, so that should be a red flag that maybe I'm not the scum here, but *shrug
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Like it's not "if you think there are two scum lynch me and you might be right"

It's "if you think there are two scum you are wrong, but you should probably lynch me to put your mind at ease"
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I know I'm town and so know that if there can only be two scum if I'm scum, there aren't two scum. Crazy!

That's not a slip that's just basic logic
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UltimaterializerX posted...

I think it's very possible Lopen slipped up in telling us there's only one left, because town has little to no reason to actually think that right now

Wait, what?

Why would you say this? I explained why town has every reason to believe this several times today.
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Obellisk posted...

So hell lynch sheep in hopes that hell look better in a final 3 since getting us to mislynch puns is clearly not going to happen.

I simply see no reason to lynch me anymore. Sheep's non-content today along with looking into Tom and puns looking into his lynch has put enough doubt in my head that I'm doubting the merit in playing martyr to try and play up the viability of lynching Puns.

If sheep flips town, I made an error in judgment and it actually is puns (or maybe it is Ulti-- how dumb is this guy going to play and get a free pass for it I mean really). I'm probably screwed either way but I see that as more winnable overall.

There's no way sheep flips scum and the game doesn't end though. If you think that's likely then I should be lynched because the only viable 2 man scum teams include me. And it's not because of Ulti's stupid "mathematical possibility" it's because two flavor godfathers is stupid. Very simple. My vote not having a risk of being hammered was something I knew going in.
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I'm not saying XIII fails as a moderator or anything. Just defending why I think the way I do about how he operates as a person. Being that way doesn't necessarily mean he's unable to put that way of thinking aside when he's moderating. I haven't been moderated yet since his reign began, so that's a good sign!
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You telling me how to interpret your personality is not 'debunking' anything, dude. I know what you've done and your history on the board. You call it willful ignorance I call it not giving you a benefit of a doubt when you've earned none.
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MetalmindStats posted...

So why isn't foolmo a target then? He's definitely vocal, and he's most certainly a (self-admitted) conservative. Just because he may have a different definition than others doesn't make it not true.

Foolmo is not an easy target is why
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I mean there has to be a flavor godfather unless I'm the only mafia. That wasn't wrong.

Sheep if he's town Cam IS a flavor trap but I mean Cam could just be a flavor hint too. I never used that to exonerate sheep
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I understand your behavior well enough to know to not really trust your words. You can claim you're this and that but your behavior simply doesn't match.

Honestly the biggest red flag that you lack the capacity to be impartial with this kinda stuff is your moderator title. No one cares enough to be a moderator on this website without caring about it a bit too much.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

The scan paired with Lopen's IT'S A FLAVOR TRAP is so hard to look past.

It must be considering I've hardly talked about that today
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Really though saying it was a 180 on sheep is very misleading

It was like a 12 degree turn. Sheep and puns were in the same direction anyway. I didn't ever call Sheep town today. I said there is one scum and the most likely scum is puns. I've readjusted that to... Well, not entirely sure it's not most likely puns, but being unsure enough that I'd rather roll the dice on trying to lynch both puns and sheep than playing martyr in the name of slam dunking puns
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Took about 20 minutes. Stratham could do better.
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So you think it's one of my two suspects but think I'm trying to convince you of the wrong one

You're so close to figuring the game out here. Bury those biases you have because you've only seen my good scum games and move on from it. You've been reaching for a case on me this whole game.
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I only bring it up when you do, either directly by trying to tell people to do ignore trolls, or indirectly by saying your troll ignoring virtue is so great.

So if you're being honest you won't be "harassed." Pretty simple! I don't non sequitur into it like you're trying to imply here. For someone claiming Lasa has a victim complex you're milking being a victim pretty good here.
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If Sheep is lynched and the game doesn't end that's the final 3. I don't want that but it's just a matter of course.

Sheep being a flavor trap makes sense if he's town but that was never why I took him off the board to begin with so what does that matter? I would hardly say I spent "all day" doing that. I never called puns scum by Poe or anything lame like that. I called him scum because I found him scummy.

Hey Ulti if I'm scum who is my scummate?
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The "trolls" as you call them are obviously being attacked as well as the "enablers." With the "trolls" you're just doing it in a condescending indirect type of way because that makes you look smarter or whatever.
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Of course you, oh exalted arbiter of post merit, would never dislike a user you speak down upon.

I'm just coming to a conclusion based on evidence and your history and not giving your character the benefit of a doubt when you've given me no reason to. Hypocrites exist! It's okay to be one no one is judging you for it. Well I am but you know. Other people.
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Ultimately we're at the point where I just don't want to throw the game. Playing martyr would be throwing the game if you actually are town. Or at least, trying my hardest to.

Arguably this is throwing the game if you're scum but I think I can dig out of this if it comes to that. I can blame all of you and say what a genius I was for identifying puns as scum without any of the risk it's great.

Seriously though WWTD is the main thing giving me enough pause. If Tom really is following Chris's reads, and it stands to reason from his posts he was, Hb is just the obvious provoke target
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XIII_rocks posted...

childish grudge over how I treated you 5 years ago that I admitted was wrong

The problem we have is I think it was less you realizing you were wrong and more you realizing your limits. If it had worked with me you very well may have continued it with Lasa. Lasa isn't super well liked but he isn't an easy target to that level either.

Like I definitely don't think someone who is trying to objectively analyze posts like you try to imply you do is going to come to a similar conclusion with MWC as they are with Corrik. They just aren't. You keep playing it that way and when you do I point out the hypocrisy of you of all people being the messenger. That's how it works. Hypocrisy is a big peeve of mine.
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##Unvote:
##Vote: Sheep

I forgive you, turbopuns3. Can you forgive me. Well, I think you can. Ulti though. That guy does not forgive. Freakin Soul Mafia man.

It's up to you and SBell.

Let us bury the hatchet and find the scum we should have found 2 goddamn days ago (if Sheep is the last scum we're going to have words about percentage plays let me tell you between Cam and Lea)
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Eh, screw it, I'm down for a sheep lynch today. I can be wrong. I was wrong with Ben, and it's possible I'm wrong with puns.

At this point I have more faith in my ability to sway Ulti in a Lopen/Puns/Ulti final 3 than I do that I'm 100% right the last scum has to be puns. And I know, this is incredible to consider considering Ulti has long wanted me dead. But I think "what would Tom do" is a fairly strong defense of me to the point where even Ulti might have some pause. Of course that only applies once we're sure it's one scum, so it doesn't work today, but I'm positive there is one scum. If you think there are two scum, you should lynch me. And you should only think there are two scum if you think I'm scum.

I mean if you guys still want to lynch me that's fine I do think it's technically speaking "smart" but I do think lynching Sheep + Puns is a slam dunk win and lynching just puns is... honestly, not as slam dunk anymore? Town sheep isn't playing this way. Hell even the man they call Survivor SBell is trying harder than him.

Speaking of Survivor. SBell you should want to find the scum today because they're shooting you tonight. Your game is on the line here bud.
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And on the other side, SBell was of course double confirmed at that point, so he seems like a poor target compared to HB who was just flavor confirmed.

I really do think Tom is the solution to this game. No way Tom is manually targeted by mafia there. He got the right guy.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

I keep coming back to how he tagged Cam and Lopen as good people to lead town

Post 176 specifically.

If he had referred to that post in particular it removes a lot of potential targets given who was alive and who was confirmed

In fact if you remove the town reads from that post it would come down to Sheep and SBell. Course if it was that post specifically (it's not, since he didn't say we should lead town there) the vote from Chris on Hb is even more interesting.
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Tom did specifically cite Chris's town reads in topic 19 before he died. Maybe that was a hint.
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Sheep hasn't done anything and it's making me more and more hesitant that I was correct in saying you were scum. If you see town/town interaction here the correct play is to put your head down.
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I think you see Cam as more dynamic than Ulti. Ulti is your pawn. Cam is a guy who could be whimsical.
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turbopuns3 posted...

The first quote block I can't understand your point. "If Cam flips scum this is not a problem" but the situation I was talking about was a hypothetical assuming Cam was town? So like how do I address this point, it doesn't make sense to me.

I'm saying if Cam is town lynching him yesterday is worse than him potentially being lynched today. Lynching him yesterday does not solve any sort of problem in a hypothetical where he is town unless you think town Sheep implies town Cam.
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Yes but you've said Cam is town many times, not so much with Sheep. It's harder for you to justify the vote and still look squeaky clean. Sheep you might not even have to vote.
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Lopen posted...

If Cam flips scum this is not a problem though.

This should only influence your thought processes if you thought town Sheep implied town Cam, which you've not actually said was implied.

Lopen posted...

Like the crux of why that doesn't make sense is your'e saying "if Cam is town I don't want Ulti and SBell autolynching him"

How is the solution to that issue to just lynch Cam yourself?

This train of thought is still relevant no matter how it relates to your hypothetical or not by the way. Do you have an answer to this?
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They're identical lynches. You're autotown by Ulti. All you need to do is ensure one of me or Sheep (or Cam) gets lynched today and you win. Sheep is implicated by town Voldemort and I said I wouldn't necessarily lynch Cam today and was more on Sheep, so Sheep being alive now gets you 3/5 easy votes, Cam gets you 2/5.
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turbopuns3 posted...

Ulti and SBell are the two most stubborn players in the game. By far.

And, if they are both scum, we already lost, so well done guys if that's the case.

Thus, I think Cam, and not Sheep, is the most likely to be lynched ultimately. Also, if Cam is town, thank goodness we can finally look at what he said through a clear lense.

In my gut, the HB/Sheep slot deserves lynch more. But. Cam will continue to be a distraction, if not lynched.

It is a hypothetical that mirrors your exact 'justification' for voting Cam, that's why I'm asking that
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XIII_rocks posted...

You seem to think of them as just normal guys the board happens to dislike, whereas I see them as people who court that dislike deliberately, who come here with malicious intent

I don't see all of them as normal guys

The fact that you can't tell the difference between guys like red sox and Corrik (and me) and guys like MWC shows you've gone beyond the pale with this and are just using it as a way to try to censor people you dislike.

Saying "the politics topic also does it" is not a defense. That place is a cesspool.
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