Lurker > MariaTaylor

Peace___Frog posted...

I'm unfamiliar with dealing with the winter lanterns with a gun. Are they susceptible to blood damage?

not particularly compared to other forms of damage. it's a combination of a few factors.

1. the sheer advantage of attacking at range. the winter latern can't actually attack you or deal any damage to you if you don't get close. and if you kill it fast enough
2. the WORST thing that can happen is that your frenzy meter builds up and you take 90% damage... but then the winter lantern is dead, and you just heal yourself.
3. most people do not play the game with fully upgraded guns, due to the shortage of upgrade materials. a +6 gun with mediocre damage is going to take like 20-25 shots to kill a winter latern. obviously, when trying this out, you're going to "learn" that using a gun doesn't work against them, which gives even more reason not to upgrade your gun since you think it's useless. but remember, most weapons spike in power from +7 to +9, and guns are no different.
4. compounding this issue, a lot of people use their gun to slot the health regeneration rune. another thing that causes their gun to do much less damage.

basically you just have to actually approach the fight with a +9 or +10 gun, appropriate for your build, with a suitable blood gem slotted in. this will give you the damage needed to kill a winter lantern very quickly with a gun. and if you can do it fast enough, they have a 0% chance of killing you. at worst, you'll spend 1 blood vial and maybe a handful of bullets per winter lantern... to completely eliminate the risk of trying to fight them in close quarters. for me, this is always a worthwhile trade.

(edit: also make sure to use bone marrow ash on your first shot. the hunter pistol, repeating pistol, and evelyn all get 2.55x damage from BMA buffed shots. these would be the guns you should be choosing between, depending on your build. and this will absolutely chunk their health with the opening shot. it might even be worth reloading and firing a few BMA shots rather than firing a bunch of small shots, depending on how fast you can kill them)


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amygdala is both weak to bloodtinge damage and highly susceptible to ranged attacks.

it's one of those 'the right tool for the right job' encounters. personally, even if I'm doing a build with minimum bloodtinge, I still consider getting a max upgraded gun just for stuff like this. a fully upgraded gun is also fantastic for dealing with the winter lanterns. might have already mentioned this earlier in the topic, can't remember. but you can take one of the most frustrating enemies in the game for a casual player and just gun them down without even getting touched.

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NFUN posted...

Evangeline McDowell is the worst of all modern anime tropes

I like how naive NFUN is

trust me, there is definitely worse.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh I meant more for the sake of grinding. If I die during the 3 pig run its not due to a lack of vials, it's because I got camera fucked. But yeah, that's lame, but even worse that that, the think that KILLS me, is that you don't restock or heal when you LEAVE the Hunter's Dream. So when I dick around with the Chikage or my bullets, I have to go to an area, come back, and leave again.

you can manually take items out of storage as long as you remember. the bigger problem for me is the idea that when I'm playing an arcane build, if I want to restock molotov cocktails, I need to go back to the hunter's dream to access my storage, and then warp back to the level I'm trying to play.

luckily this is not a huge issue for me as I rarely need more than 10 at a time, but still... it's just a quality of life thing. and it can matter in chalice dungeon exploration if I try to do 2 or 3 floors all at once without going back.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Demons' Souls is still my favorite Souls game after Bloodborne, so I feel pretty comfortable admitting it's fucked, lol.

I'm not sure if it's my second or third favorite but yeah otherwise, same. although I agree or disagree with some of your ideas. I want them to keep world tendency, for example, but I just KNOW they are going to change it. which is kinda sad. it wasn't that hard to manage and it was something that made the game really unique.

magic is too powerful and did need to be nerfed. level drain doesn't bother me personally, I think it's a pretty interesting and powerful effect for such a powerful enemy to be able to have. then again I've played tons of classic dungeon crawlers with level drain where it's far more significant, and I see Demon's Souls as an homage to those games.

the main thing I want them to fix, which I think they probably won't, is the stat system. not only is it unbalanced, but it's bloated as hell. bloodborne has really spoiled me in this regard. I know for sure now that fewer stats are generally better. we don't need 10 different stats to micromanage every aspect of our build.


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CassandraCain posted...

My PSN is SoulChaser17 btw

Oh. OOHHHHH.... Wow. I actually know who you are. I can't remember exactly what your username used to be. I think it was like Shadow something? I thought you left the board a long time ago. ShadowHalo?

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Honestly I'm annoyed enough that you can't "rest" at the lamp to begin with, but at least the Bold Marks are so cheap you can just restock them constantly and treat them like an auto-bonfire.

this is actually incorrect, btw. when you use a bold hunter mark it doesn't even restock your consumables. YEAH.

which brings me to the other main things I'd fix. restock your vials and bullets when you touch the lamp or use a bold hunter's mark, and also restock your other consumable items out of storage if you have them. stuff like molotov cocktails for example, you can only hold 10 but you can store 99. but if the 99 in my storage never get automatically moved into my inventory, it's kinda worthless???

thankfully I never had to deal with the terrible loading screens since I never buy games on launch.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Stuff like this is why the Demons' Souls remake has me so fascinated. I've never seen a game remade that has people praying for them to change nothing but at the same time just NEEDS to have so much fixed.

oh there's a few things I'm hoping they change about demon's souls. sadly, I think they'll probably change the things that I don't want them to change. and the things I'd like changed, will probably stay the same. but that's life.

it's still a great game at its core so it'll come out fine either way.... probably...


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yeah I'm a pretty big DS3 hater but it did get a few things right. namely..

1. you can sell consumable souls for the same price that it would gain by crushing them, saving a lot of time.
2. your homeward bone can take you directly back to firelink shrine

the second one is especially notable in bloodborne. I barely even use the bold hunter's marks except for cutting down on backtracking in chalice dungeons. the fact that you have to go through a loading screen to get back to the lamp, to go through another loading screen to get back to the hunter's dream, to go through ANOTHER loading screen to get to where you want to go, makes the bold hunter's mark item virtually useless in bloodborne. it's one of the 3ish main things I'd want to change if I was going to 'remake' the game.


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I don't think it would be too much of a grind honestly, especially with how many blood echoes you get from chalice exploring. That being said, such a build has only one real benefit -- you can use anything in the game -- and a few drawbacks... like your level being too high to get very much online play.

And really being able to use anything in the game is a novelty, but I'd rather have 3 or 4 optimized builds than one character who can do everything... but only in password co-op.

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Peace___Frog posted...

I knew that Molly's scaled with arcane, but that Gascoigne fight was the easiest thing I've ever done. I missed two of my throws and still only needed to do a few swipes at the end to get the kill. I'm blown away right now.

this is how you know anyone who says "early game arcane is rough" has no idea what they are talking about

once again, I have literally beaten Gascoigne several times using only the 10 molotov cocktails and like 4 oil urns that you pick up on the way to fight him.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also, Blades of Mercy, really? Huh, I never actually looked into it, but always thought those were the pure skilliest of the skill.

they can't be converted to pure arcane, which makes them particularly good as mixed build weapons. they get flat bonus arcane damage on top of their high skill scaling, which rewards 50 skill and any amount of arcane that you invest into the build, since you'll be getting bonus arcane damage as well.

for this reason they are also optimized when using +%Attack gems instead of +%PhysDamage gems

very few enemies in the game have arcane resistance, either, which makes it a very versatile damage type. I think a 50 skill, 18-25 Arcane build that uses the blades of mercy would be pretty powerful. in fact, one of my friends played bloodborne for the first time last year, used the blades of mercy, and had a surprisingly easy time with the game.


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CassandraCain posted...

Like the Undead Giant, his second phase is tough to get a handle on for some reason.

Is it the one with all of the chains on his back? That guy is notoriously difficult, especially because one of his attacks can oneshot you if you're in your recovery frames from a failed dodge.

Just a reminder that I did post my PSN above, though, and I have over half of the chalices unlocked already. If you want some help, I can join in. Co-Op play makes the Chalices a lot more fun, anyway.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Is there a Skl/Arc weapon?

Blades of Mercy

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Or even wierder, a Bld/Arc weapon?

No. I have made a BLT/ARC build in the past though. It works better than you'd think. You get the benefits of a high arcane build, and then because your build has so many extra points you can afford to spend a few buffing up your gun damage. (Edit: I thought this was unspoken, but I'll just specify that a good gun is a better and more efficient ranged attack option than Blacksky Eye. It will likely have better damage and a faster firing rate.)

UshiromiyaEva posted...

As for the de-transform attack, I thought I remembered you saying it was just OK, guess I was wrong. Love the near 180 degree frontal spread with a decent forward spray, especially when facing humanoid enemies who dodge. And it's practically instant, too.

yeah the move itself is very solid and useful. you might be thinking of when I said that the 1h->2h attack has a high damage multiplier and the 2h->1h attack has a low damage mutliplier of only 0.95. While this is true, keep in mind when transforming from 2 handed back to 1 handed, you're dealing 0.95x of your BUFFED two handed AR, which is scaling off of your better bloodtinge stat. they probably have similar damage when you factor in all of this, and is likely a reason why the damage multiplier is so high/low accordingly.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

As I continue to level skill, I hope to incorporate the basic mode more rather than always moving straight to blood mode and just changing back when retreating.

yeah this is the issue I mentioned above with Skill/BLT builds, and how it feels like you only ever use one or the other. and, ultimately, the skill investment feels a bit like a waste. although once you hit 50 skill it's not too bad as it means you essentially just have a 50 skill build to fight generic enemies with, and only need to worry about costly health and QS bullet usage against more powerful enemies.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Maria I think you heavily undereatimate this de-transform attack on the Chikage.

what makes you say that? It thought earlier I said both of the transformation attacks are good.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Got to 40/25/50 on Vig/Skl/Bld. Every point from here on out will be in Skill until 50. Obviously won't hit it this playthrough, but should reach it in NG+.

honestly just seeing this is making me hyped for the fact that I want to eventually try a build with minimum Str/Skill and high Bloodtinge. I know it won't actually work the way a high Arcane build will work, but I DO want to see just how absurd I can make my gun damage if I push my BLT to 60, 70, 80, etc.

Even on my gun only runs I tended to beat the game at a very low level and never passed 50 BLT

UshiromiyaEva posted...

...Oh course the 3 pig run at the end is so lucrative it really wouldnt be that hard to get to 50 or close to it. 95k blood Echoes per run with them and the 9 Shadows on that route, which is like 3 minutes. The Shadows and Pigs attacking eachother makes it such a cakewalk.

you have no idea how easy it is to level up until you've played the chalice dungeons honestly. I'm only on Ailing Loran right now (a little more than halfway through the mandatory chalice progressions) and I already have every consumable item nearly fully stocked, have bought 1 copy of each weapon and armor from the messenger bath, and I'm still returning with 60k-70k echoes every time I come back from a chalice... at this point I've got nothing left to spend them on since I'm not planning on gaining any levels.


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Even if you do everything it's still a pretty short game. I'm about... 70% done with my "master file" endeavors, I would say. All I have left to do is..

Second half of Forbidden Wood
Byrgenwarth
Yaharghul
Nightmare of Mensis

Ailing Loran
Defiled Chalice
Isz

Research Hall
Fishing Hamlet

Okay some of these sections are kinda large, so it does still seem like a lot. I'm also only about halfway done collecting all of the weapons I want to use... and while I have a shortage of blood gems right now, I have a feeling I'll begin to stock up on plenty of them once I get started on Loran and Isz.


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The good news is that if your only goal is to finish a run, Bloodborne is a very fast game to clear. About half of the main game content is optional, and the DLC is entirely optional. The "bad" news is that if you're actually having fun and want to keep playing, there is like infinite things to do.

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forgotten mad lads defeated
lower hintertomb cleared
martyr logarius defeated

... still haven't stepped foot in forbidden woods, and I'm still running around with +6 weapons and low level.


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2pac uses his blue ghost powers to defeat her, and I won't be convinced otherwise

If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

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it scales only with bloodtinge. two things to keep in mind:

first, your listed AR is not always your true damage value. the move set of every weapon consists of different attacks that all have different damage multipliers. so some weapons actually only do like 0.90 multiplied by your AR, while others do like 1.1 multiplied by your listed AR. as with the scaling discussion before, there is no consistency or logic to it. for example, the two handed chikage basic R1 moveset starts with a 0.95 mutliplier. transforming from 1h into 2h has a MASSIVE multiplier (1.42), while transforming from 2h back to 1h has a really dingy multiplier(0.95). so keep that in mind.

second, with all that being said, no, the chikage is just insanely fucking powerful. the tradeoff is the HP drain but yeah. the massive damage easily offsets the cost of a tiny amount of HP drain.

as a sidenote I'll mention something else cool. certain weapons get a special move that works as an L1-R1 combo trick attack. basically while standing normally, pressing L1 causes you to change your weapon into the alternate form without attacking, right? along with the ludwig holy blade and the kirkhammer, the chikage also has a special unique attack that can only be triggered during this moment. in fact, it gets two!

if you transform into the two handed state and press R1 while the weapon is changing forms, you'll launch a special light attack. you can also do L1-R2 to do a special heavy attack, it can also be charged, and it drains less HP than the normal R2 attack.

it's definitely not a coincidence that these secret L1-RX combos are some of the best attacks in the moveset of the three weapons I just mentioned, as they are somewhat advanced things that novice players are not going to use -- for lack of even knowing it exists, or how to do it correctly.

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if I go to the gym 1,000,000 grandmothers will die

also I'm lazy

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Nice! Looks really cool. I'm going to try on the Knight's Wig and see if it fits on my current character. It's really tough because it doesn't look good with every hair style and color, but you can't really try it on until you're like 2/3 of the way through the game. So I never know if it's going to look good or not...

About the Holy Blade and the Moonlight Blade... so the big difference is that the Moonlight Blade actually has transformation attacks that are good, and the one handed form is a greatsword with hyper armor instead of a basic straightsword. Those two things alone make it a much better weapon for me both in terms of how much I want to use it and how much I'd recommend it to new players.

I'll probably play a bit tomorrow after I go grocery shopping in the morning. Will check to see if anyone actually sent me friend requests lol


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most weapons have a good transformation attack going from the basic form to the alternate form. whirligig saw and hunter axe for example transforms from 1h to 2h very fluidly. weapons which go back and forth fluidly are more rare, and very highly rated: saw spear, saw cleaver.

the ludwig holy blade actually has dog shit transformation attacks, which is one of the reasons I say it's such an overrated weapon and tends to instill bad habits in new players. they learn to play the game with a one handed sword and a greatsword as needed, but they don't learn about the value of the transformation attacks -- which tend to deal extra damage and stun on most weapons. this is also the reason why the sword is so beloved by many amateur players as well. it allows them to play the game like dark souls and forget about the fact that their trick weapon is a trick weapon, and not have to learn the mechanics of bloodborne.


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no, however...

the life drain isn't too bad

the transform attack is very good

for this reason, you can simply get lots of damage by opening with a transform attack, stacking buffed hits until the enemy is dead, and then returning your weapon to 1h form so you can safely carry the weapon around without killing yourself. needing to switch back to 2h mode for fights is never an issue because you want to be using the transform attack anyway.

same principle applies for boss battles, but you'll be transforming in and out depending on when the boss presents an opening to be attacked. chikage is one of the better weapons for teaching a player how to use their transformation attacks more effectively. the penalty of losing health forces you to play the weapon correctly or pay the price.

(edit: to engage an enemy with the transform attack you have one of two options. the first is R1->L1 if you're in a standing position to attack. the other option is to dash forward and then press L1. this will trigger a dashing transformation attack, something that is generally very good on most of the weapons that have good trick attack options.)

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Amygdala is my least favorite. Bloodborne has a lot of really well designed bosses that have very dynamic behavior. Amygdala is the only one I can think of where it can be cheesed super easily, and the method to force it into an AI loop is SO common that a new player could conceivably do it accidentally. It just feels really disappointing when you compare bosses like Father Gascoigne, and then you see Amygdala jump straight up into the air and land without damaging the player (even if the player stands completely still) over and over again.

Second least favorite is Rom. As I mentioned above, I think it's one of the most boring bosses. Similar to my complaints above, I think that most of the bosses in the game are very dynamic and impressive. Rom has very few attacks and contrary to people who think the fight is RNG, you actually have a LARGE degree of control over what Rom does. Combined with the fact that it takes time to set up safe opportunities to attack, this leads to a fight that is both formulaic and tends to be overly long.

Peace___Frog posted...

Thanks for the arcane advice

no problem! and since you mentioned earlier about not understanding arcane builds and stuff, let me give a few more points of advice:

1. When you put an elemental gem into a weapon, it converts the damage from 100% physical to 100% elemental. You lose ALL of your strength and skill scaling, and you get 0.55 of that amount as Arcane scaling instead.
2. This means that you should ONLY put points into Strength and Skill as needed for weapon requirements.
3. Weapons that already have Arcane damage by default (Holy Moonlight Sword, Tonitrus, Boom Hammer), cannot be converted to 100% arcane damage. For this reason...
4. It seems counterintuitive, but pure physical weapons tend to be good for arcane builds -- since you can fully convert them to arcane scaling and damage. While weapons with split damage tend to be better for mixed or quality builds. The Boom Hammer, for example, requires no Arcane investment but allows you to get bonus fire damage in addition to your Strength scaling. The Saw Cleaver, when converted to Arcane, allows you to get 100% scaling from your maxed out Arcane stat.
5. With all this in mind you should understand that Arcane Builds tend to have a LOT of stat points to play around with. You can easily get 50 Vit and 50 Arcane with no troubles. All of the hunter tools continue to scale up to 99 Arcane. This means you can even do a 99 Arcane, 50 Vitality build with minimum Strength and Skill and it's going to be very strong.

Augur of Ebrietas is your go to damage dealer. It has the best ratio of damage for spending 1 quicksilver bullet, and it absolutely murders most enemies in the game by simply knocking them on the ground repeatedly. Most enemies have no answer to this strategy. I always keep it on me when playing chalice content, since you can shut down most of the mid bosses who guard levers and treasure chests.

Executioner's Gloves are good ranged attacks for enemies who tend to dodge sideways (shadows of yharnam, the fire katana dude whose name I always forget). They have a slight amount of tracking that causes the projectiles to curve sideways into the target.

Tiny Tonitrus is good for enemies who can't be staggered, and those who dodge forward (Gehrman is the perfect example of this). You essentially form a curtain of lightning in front of yourself and the enemy must always walk through it and take damage to approach you.

Blacksky Eye is pretty underwhelming. You'd think the ability to hit a target with a standard projectile at range would be useful but it lags behind the others in damage, and the other tools all have their specialized roles which make them stand out. Usually one of the three mentioned above is best for the situation. I almost never equip the Blacksky Eye.

A Call Beyond is really good when NPCs use it against you. It's pretty underwhelming when you use it against enemies. Even in the situations where it's optimal to use it, I always felt a bit disappointed. Combined with the high QS cost, this is another one I tend not to keep equipped.

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Laurence is a cool boss. It's like the Cleric Beast with added difficulty, new attacks, a new second half, extra HP and damage so you can fight it as an endgame boss -- and placed into a bigger arena so that the camera and positioning are both easier to manage. I wish more bosses in the game got this kind of treatment, personally. Usually I understand the reasoning behind most of the common complaints in Bloodborne, but I actually have never understood the hate for Laurence. Do people just hate fighting him because he's difficult? Or is it something I'm not getting?


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so a few things, just to demonstrate what I mean...

1. the spell she chooses is largely influenced by your distance from the boss
2. the three meteor spell is actually one of the BEST spells she can select (best for you, to be clear)
3. if you are patient, you should never be at any risk from the spiders

the first two are the most important. those points kind of demonstrate the difference between someone who knows the fight and someone who doesn't. if you think she's just randomly selecting meteors, you're wrong. she's likely doing it because you are hanging back too far out of her range to cast her other spells. and if seeing the meteors is a bad thing, it shows that you haven't learned the correct time and method to engage her. otherwise you'd be happy to see the meteors.

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oh yeah speaking of co-op, if anyone does want to co-op play or something just let me know. I'm a pretty passive summon, so you don't have to worry too much about me coming in and clearing your levels. generally I just follow the host around, and help where I can.

my PSN:
o-NumberTwelve

(yes, the letter o and the - symbol are part of it)

Peace___Frog posted...

I've never done a fully arcane build before, that might be interesting? What do you go for in the early game before you have the Tony?

just use the saw cleaver. even with base stats, it still has plenty of damage to get you through the early game. your stats are so unimportant in the early game anyway, it doesn't matter. as long as you upgrade the weapon to +1, +2, +3 this will be way more important than your strength and skill.

assuming you pick a class with good arcane stat, you'll get lots of damage from your molotov cocktails. pick Cruel Fate if you want to optimize. it has only 5 bloodtinge, balanced Str/Skill and no wasted points. a comfortable 12 endurance, too. get the flamesprayer as soon as possible if you want to experiment with a pure fire damage weapon early on. all of the early game bosses are weak against fire, and you can get the flamesprayer before you fight the bloodstarved beast or amelia.

flamesprayer doesn't stun enemies, but you can use this to your advantage against bosses. it won't break them out of an attack chain, which means if your positioning is good you can hold down the trigger and continue to burn them while they are swinging wildly at the air. it CAN be buffed with bone marrow ash, and the buff continues to apply until you let go of the trigger. it doesn't go away after the first damage tick. but once you let go, the buff is lost. generally you get the best/optimal damage off the first two damage ticks anyway.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Speaking of Rom, second least favorite boss. Only reason it's not my least favorite is that on a run where you beat her she's easy as shit, but she's just annoying and has so much RNG involved. Overall it's absolutely the boss I've died to the most in all 3 playthrough including my current one.

I don't think Rom is really RNG, you just have to be patient and deliberate. I used to think Rom was pretty unfair until I got better at the game and learned how to play the fight correctly. although I still think it's one of the worst bosses just because it's a boring fight, but that's a different matter.


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got really invested in some chalice exploration earlier.

found my lost saw cleaver, a weapon I hope to be using more in the future once I get the good gems to support it.

defeated chalice rom despite the fact that I haven't even reached the actual rom in the main game yet.

additionally just cleared out the rest of lower pthumeru. defeating bloodletting beast with only 30 vit was a pain in the ass. he had some attacks that could oneshot me. meanwhile I was chipping away at his health with a +6 weapon. at least it was pure fire converted damage, that helped.

I've unlocked all of the lamps I will need to start progressing into the lategame, but I haven't cleared cainhurt or the forbidden woods yet. shouldn't be much longer before I have access to every area in the game for co-op. at this rate I'll probably have all of the chalices unlocked first!

lastly just want to say that the tonitrus is absolutely disgustingly powerful. I mean I always knew this but it's been a while since I used it as a main weapon. probably the main reason I was even able to get past some of the chalice areas and bosses so early is because I've been relying heavily on the buffed tonitrus damage.


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Murphiroth posted...

This topic made me go look up some of my old Bloodborne boss fights I recorded from my Kirkhammer run.

lol nice vid

yeah the kirkhammer definitely has a few good points. overhand swings are generally useful in bloodborne because of the hitbox placement of certain bosses (paarl, amygdala, a few other enemies). I think the weapon is pretty bad in the earlygame because it doesn't have the damage to support its slow, clunky playstyle. but once you get enough strength, enough upgrades, and good blood gems? it actually justifies the risk of fully charging up an R2, or swinging a slow, clunky hammer around -- since the damage is finally there to make up for the slow attack rating.

I've actually been thinking about how many points of strength I want to put into my arcane build because of how it will allow me to use various weapons. and man this video makes me want to put a bit more strength in so I can use an arcane converted kirkhammer at some point...

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Evelynn is at +6 as well, though it's not like there's aything fancy there, it's just damage. S Rank in Bloodtinge already though, is there much or a reason to get this to +10?

higher base damage, higher scaling = more return on investment from your stats and your blood gems

I can't find explicit confirmation on this (because all of the damage calculators use the +10 weapons with max scaling values) but I'm close to certain that your scaling in bloodborne continues to go up all the way to +10.

important thing to know about all souls games is that the scaling tooltip doesn't tell you any useful information beyond 'this weapon is good with this stat.' your weapon might say S scaling already (I think it at +6 it should say A, not S though. are you sure it says S already?), but the ratio could still go up from 1.3 to 1.5 or something and the game just won't ever tell you because the math is all hidden. additionally, two weapons that both say A could have values of 1.1 and 0.86

there's just no consistency or logic behind it.

but yeah if you plan to use the evelyn to deal damage, you should upgrade it to +10. you could also ignore the evelyn and just use the bowblade to shoot arrows instead. the bowblade is going to do more damage per shot, but the evelyn can shoot projectiles buffed with bone marrow ash.

this actually might be a case where the repeating pistol could potentially shine. you use your bow for ranged damage shots normally, and keep the repeating pistol to use specifically for BMA increased shots only. this would actually justify the cost of an extra bullet for the added damage, since it will be getting a multiplier as well. and since you have a spammable ranged projectile in your right hand, it doesn't feel bad to waste a left handed slot on the repeating pistol. if I was doing another BLT build right now I might consider trying this out.


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Question, will the order in which I rush these level ups differ from your earlier recommendation depending on if it's a fuck on bowblade, reiterpallasch, or Chikage, or should it be 50/25 Blood/Skill first before pumping Skill regardless?

use your best judgement based on whether you're getting more use out of the sword or the bow, as well as factoring in if the weapon is doing enough damage. if your sword is already dealing enough damage to kill most regular enemies without any trouble, and you're using the bow to get a lot of ranged damage on bosses, it's a good idea to level up your bloodtinge more quickly.

it's hard to give a solid recommendation for more complicated builds because they don't follow simple rules, and will often depend on how the weapon performance feels at any given point in the run.

edit: if you're not sure, and your damage is fine, invest in health first. you're going to need health eventually anyway so it's not a waste to get more points there early.


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it's really, really good. the only downside of the arrows is that they aren't buffed by bone marrow ash. they pretty much excel in every category as ranged attacks otherwise. damage, dropoff range, etc.

blood bullets are more simple than you think, you just have to condition yourself to pay attention to your ammunition. generally you want to always be using blood bullets and save your QS stock for emergencies when you need to shoot without being able to reload.

the times when you can reload are the same times when you can safely heal. the big difference is that you MUST know how to safely heal. because reloading doesn't heal yourself, it damages yourself. meaning if you try to do it at the wrong time, you'll die. as opposed to healing at the wrong time which usually just causes you to take damage and heal at the same time, often evening out.

if you haven't learned how to safely heal, it's a good idea to learn now. otherwise your ranged weapon performance is gonna be lackluster.


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getting close to being "done" with my arcane build. I'm only taking it to level 60 so that I should be able to find and co-op with random people in most areas of the game except for like the first two areas. although honestly knowing me, I'll probably get invested in exploring the chalice dungeons (I've already cleared a good chunk of them despite only being at level 38 right now) and level myself up more later. hard to say.

I still have a good amount of areas left to unlock in the base game. I've been taking it slow, talking to NPCs a lot, and thinking about the lore as I go through it. it's been a while since I've done a run like this. it's really common for me to either be doing a challenge run or a speed run.

cleared everything in the DLC up to ludwig. I have no plans to fight him right now. although I think I probably could beat him, since I'm mainly using a good fire type weapon that is also serrated. but I'm keeping all of my weapons at +6 and I know he'll be a pain to fight without at least a +7 or +8, especially given that I am planning to cap my level (which means a lower and less optimized stat spread)

my main goal is to get some irregular weapons so I can start slotting more of the elemental gems that I've collected, and then I will feel better about upgrading those weapons. upgrading regular weapons feels like a waste of chunks because I know I'll want something with three different gem slots later on, and these will end up getting tossed in the trash. for now, the augur of ebrietas is good enough to deal with pretty much all of the chalice mid boss types -- dealing over half their health in damage and knocking them down so I can finish them off. most bosses are usually weak to either bolt or fire, and I have access to both. I could probably finish the rest of the game at level 38 with just my +6 weapon. might even be a fun challenge to do so.


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my idea of getting the bowblade early is to kill simon right after I kill ludwig. heck, if you're inclined to cheese, you might even be able to push him down the elevator shaft leading to the research hall, but I can't remember exactly how long it takes him to appear there so it might be a longer wait.


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that looks like a miserable experience, but this is coming from someone who never uses cheese strategies lol

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Nothing will make you feel the importance of weapon upgrades as much as trying to fight an enemy hunter with a half-upgraded weapon and mediocre blood gems.

I love multiple boss fights, gank squads, anything like that. At a certain point you need an extra challenge and this is one of the few legitimate ways to get it. Tests for more niche skills like camera control, stamina management, and patience as well as learning and exploiting enemy move sets. Things you're never really forced to do properly if you only have to engage one enemy at a time.

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Xiahou Shake posted...

Concealing the weapon inside the cane and flogging the beasts with the whip is partly an act of ceremony, an attempt to demonstrate to oneself that the bloodlust of the hunt will never encroach upon the soul.

lol point taken!

yeah I have no problem with people using it for lore reasons, style reasons, or they just think it's cool. I think it frustrates me though because of how many new players pick the cane to start with and it ends up making their experience with the game worse. often times they'll continue to praise the cane because of its style but complain about how hard the game is or how their weapon bounces off the wall, etc. etc... things that are only happening BECAUSE they are using the cane.

it also teaches so many bad habits and doesn't reinforce any of the skills needed to be good at the game. like an optimal strategy in many bloodborne encounters is to engage the enemy aggressively and hit them first, stun them, and keep hitting till they die.

but the stun and the damage on the cane are both SO bad, that often players can't keep enemies stunlocked, and they can't deal enough damage to kill an enemy without getting counter attacked. so they learn through reinforcement to back away and fight enemies with hit and run tactics.

and I might as well just go into this now since it's the third time it has come up, but reach in bloodborne is generally useless or a detriment. here's why..

often times when you hit the enemy, they are slightly pushed back by your attack. because of this, you want a weapon that will keep the enemy mostly grounded in place, and whose continuous swings will continue to strike the same spot. even if the enemy is pushed back a little bit, your character steps forward a little bit as well. to do this, it's often best to get as CLOSE to the enemy as possible while striking. you DON'T want to hit them with the very edge of the reach of your weapon.

the issue with the whips and scythes is that they have a long wind up time between attacks and really irregular attack patterns. like it'll sweep from right to left and then left to right at completely different angles.

because of the long wind up time of your attack, you have to try and strike enemies near the edge of your reach, which you don't want to do. if you try to get close, you'll get hit before you can actually whip them. or they'll be inside of your striking range.

then, after hitting them, they'll get pushed out of position. great. that's another thing to worry about. they were already at the edge of your reach and you might have just pushed them out of your reach.

even better? your next swing is coming in at a completely different angle. if it doesn't bounce off of a wall there's no guarantee you'll even hit the damn guy.


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wasn't going to say anything but threaded cane sucks ass.

bad stagger, bad damage, clunky moveset. the damage gets better later on, but it's pretty much only beloved by certain players because of style and being able to cheese things with reach. and why wouldn't you just use a different weapon with good damage and a good moveset.

just got the tonitrus in my side playthrough I've been doing and man this thing is so CHUNKY

it already has the same 200 damage as my flame converted saw cleaver in the base form, despite having arguably a worse gem set up... but when buffed that jumps to 350!

I haven't even gotten to vicar amelia yet and I can deal 350 damage

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Yeah my earlier explanation of endurance was heavily reliant on the fact that I generally pick starting classes with 10-12 endurance, and even then I mentioned that a few extra points (up to 18 is what I consider "high") is okay for less experienced players if they feel that they need it. I'm just not a fan of the sentiment that 20-30 endurance is needed in this game. 30 endurance is absolutely nuts, and even 20 is a waste of at least a few points.


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yeah waste of skin sucks.

best starting class for a bloodtinge + skill build is... hmm... I'd say the Professional. it has the fewest wasted points in Str/Arcane (only 17), and has a favorable spread of 9/8 instead of 9/9 like some of the other classes. this is getting heavily into min/max territory though. I'm not sure if it's really all that important. you also get 12 endurance and 15 skill without needing to waste any early game levels.


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best thing to do while looking at starting class is to pick the class that has the fewest points invested into the stats you don't plan to use. if this means you need to level up endurance a few points to get to 11 or 12, should be fine.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I wish the transformed Chikage was still a one-handed weapon so you can use its Bloodtinge scaling version along with the Evelyn at the same time. I mean yeah, that does seem OP, but the build also seems a little restricted without that option, as you trade in your long range game (on a Bloodtinge build) in exchange for a short range murder sword and vice versa.

I thought about bringing this up too, but I think it's fine. you just need to switch back and forth between 1h and 2h when you want to shoot, and the trick attack which buffs the chikage is particularly powerful. in addition to health drain, you have an incentive to keep returning to the 1h form anyway.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Hmmm is 8 Endurance TOO little? Obviously not actually leveling it, but wondering what the minimum is. Using the calculator and Noble Scion takes notably less levels to get where I want.

8 is probably too little, in all honesty. and if that's coming from me then you know it really is the case since I'm one of the more anti-endurance BB players out there.

CassandraCain posted...

Yeah I mean I knew all of that, was just curious to know how much extra damage it actually gives you. Like when you first pop it is it a 1.1x modifier that works its way up to a full 2x when the bar is full? What kind of variables, etc.

ah okay. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head.

0 Beasthood: no change to physical damage and defense
1 Beasthood : +20% phys damage, -20% all defenses
25 Beasthood: +30% phys damage, -30% all defenses
50 Beasthood: +40% phys damage, -40% all defenses
100 Beasthood: +50% phys damage, -50% all defenses
200 Beasthood: +60% phys damage, -60% all defenses
300 Beasthood: +70% phys damage, -80% all defenses

looks like you get a +20% bonus to damage as long as your meter isn't empty. getting +30% and even +40% damage seems fairly easy. more than that requires you to build your meter up (and to have a big enough meter to fill to the higher breakpoints). there seems to be diminishing returns, since +20-40% damage is so easy to get.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

But you gotta get it in a dungeon and dungeons are booooooooriiiiiiiiiiiing.

I completely do not identify with this, lol

always enjoyed the dungeons. they're a great change of pace from the main game. the ability to go back and forth between doing dungeons and doing base game content is one of the things that always keeps me interested in playing.

Peace___Frog posted...

I know I'm in the minority with not hating the dungeons, but imo they're worth going through once just for the unique bosses.

yeah I really don't get the hate for them but then again I've always loved dungeon crawlers, and this is the main reason I fell in love with Demon's Souls when I first played it.

the other great thing about the chalice dungeons is that they are a fantastic place to practice your skills. they are filled with enemies who are more difficult and less forgiving than the base game content. probably a contributing factor to why the dungeons receive so much hate, honestly.

xp1337 posted...

more like not enough discussion about best weapon rakuyo.

rakuyo is really fun, and very powerful. I can't personally say that I ever feel like I mastered the use of the full moveset, even after using it as my main weapon on a tomb prospector build for quite a while. stuff like the random short stab attack with the left handed blade, I read explanations on how it can be a good mix up but I never personally found any opportunities where I was able to use it effectively, and eventually just gave up and relied on my basic attacks and spin to win.


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I think the chikage is a weapon that takes a lot of work to use correctly, requires a pretty heavy investment into a specific build. even if you plan to use the chikage eventually, you need to think about what weapons you want to use until you get there. and the challenge that this presents.

the ideal chikage set up is with the chikage in the right hand and a good gun in the left hand, while having both 50 skill and 50 bloodtinge. there are a few issues with this. first, getting to 50/50 in two damage dealing stats in your game cycle is a pretty huge investment. secondly, with two weapons you want to have at +9 or higher, and bloodstone chunks being a huge bottleneck, this leaves very little room to upgrade other weapons.

but you kinda need to upgrade other weapons to be able to GET to the point where you're using the chikage and the evelyn. so yeah, it's tough. remember in this scenario you won't be cruising back to logarius to beat him down with a +10 weapon at the end of the game.

if you want to use the chikage, you can probably get away with using a +6 hunter pistol and a +6 or +7 rifle spear for most of the game, and then switch over to the chikage+evelyn set up later on.

after that you should be okay.

if you're not going to use the chikgae I recommend using the rifle spear to +6, get the reiterpallasch to +6, and then decide one of them to commit to. you'll also want to get a gun in your left hand to use for bone marrow ash shots.


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ignoring the repeating pistol and cannon because of its issues with bullet efficiency

the best three guns for ranged damage are the evelyn, reiterpallasch, and bowblade

after that I'm not 100% sure but I would guess the hunter pistol is the next best

the ludwig rifle and rifle spear I think have similar damage but I haven't tested them enough to be sure. they're okay, they punch hard, and they don't have a super hard drop off but they BOTH use the pellet style of attack, and their pellets spread far enough that you're less likely to stack multiple pellets onto the same target. the ludwig rifle can hit pretty hard though. you know that annoying fucker near amelia's cathederal who is paired up with the tonitrus hunter? the one who won't stop dodging and shooting you with a gun that does WAY too much damage? yeah, that'd the ludwig rifle.

lastly, I'll just bring up again my earlier discussion about how the blunderbuss may have the highest possible damage for a gun in the ideal circumstances... but this does require shotgunning, perfect positioning, and only works against specific enemies.

I guess I'd say to use the hunter pistol and/or the reiterpallasch gun at least until you can get the evelyn. don't underestimate the gun damage of the reiterpallasch, it has always been considered a comparable option to the evelyn in terms of damage. especially with the ability to equip three blood gems instead of one.

for an idea of how much damage the evelyn will do at endgame:
https://youtu.be/A6LQlTi5158

from my 2nd gun only challenge. you can kinda tell from watching this that unless you are intentionally trying to do something with a gun only, you're going to want some kind of support from a melee weapon. chipping away at his health while constantly reloading is very difficult. however, the base game bosses are all MUCH easier than the DLC bosses because of the much lower HP pools.

I was doing around 200-300 damage per shot to the Orphan of Kos, depending on the timing of the shots (you'll learn through practice how this matters, though I can try to explain it in another post if requested). outside of the dropoff range, you see the damage goes down to about 190 per shot or less. the fact that the evelyn doesn't lose much damage at the longer range is one of the really good things about it. but the reiterpallasch and bowblade have a similar property where they still deal high damage at long ranges, and they both have similar damage. the bowblade damage is a bit higher, but lacks melee versatility.

the reiterpallasch is the best option for getting bloodtinge scaled damage that can shoot targets at range, while having a versatile melee weapon built in. it still compares favorably to the other two at endgame. also using a gunblade is just really cool, I guess. also consider the benefit of upgrading both your GUN and your MELEE WEAPON at the same time. it saves a lot of upgrade material costs.

the hunter pistol is really complicated. I've tried a few times to explain the pros and cons of it but I keep deleting the paragraph and starting over. the issue is with the availability of upgrade materials. if you're using the hunter pistol until you get the evelyn, you'll be stuck with a +6 hunter pistol... which isn't very useful in getting the evelyn. if you decide to use the hunter pistol as your main gun, you'll have a higher +7 or +8 hunter pistol to fight logarius, but then no upgrade materials for the evelyn after you unlock it.

bowblade and evelyn are worth considering for the endgame if you find you want to try something else out, and/or you're just not satisfied with the reiterpallasch

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I wouldn't bother with the repeating pistol. the benefit of having a high damaging shot is massively offset by the cost of having half as many shots. especially if you're using a build that heavily relies on the usage of bullets. even if you're using blood bullets it means you need to self damage twice as often. finding opportunities to safely create bullets and heal yourself back up is not a simple skill, and you don't want to be forcing yourself to reload twice as often. trust me.

evelyn: only invest into this if you know for sure that you're going to be using your gun as a damaging tool. otherwise, you'd be better off using the hunter pistol since it has better parrying and the damage isn't too much lower. even then, keep in mind that you can get better ranged damage with the bow blade which can make the evelyn fairly obsolete in the 'ranged DPS' slot.

chikage: remember that the chikage will only be as good if you go 50 skill/50 bloodtinge, so plan accordingly if you want to do this kind of build. I do recommend having at least a +7 weapon before going after logarius.

bowblade: this one is just a solid option all around. it deals high damage as a ranged weapon, and the base form has a pretty standard/efficient moveset which will benefit from whatever you put into skill.

reiterpallasch and rifle spear: don't discount these just because they are base game weapons. you already haven't used them before, so it's all the same to you right?

all I can say about them is that the reiterpallasch is about as good as the bowblade, with its own sets of pros and cons (less ranged damage, more melee versatility, better set ups and trick attacks)

the rifle spear on the other hand is a fun skill weapon to use regardless. I think many people get the wrong idea and think of it as a rifle before a spear. it's a spear before it is a rifle, and one of the more fun 2-handed weapons to use in the game. it compares very favorably in the 'polearm' slot to the Hunter's Axe, and I'd even say it's better in some ways. then, adding to all that, it has a blunderbuss with better range attached to it, which gives good return on investment even for minimum bloodtinge. the trick attacks aren't great but the 1h and 2h move set are both solid in their own right, and the bayonet charge is super satisfying to use.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I've appreciated these super detailed breakdowns immensely.

haha cool. thanks for saying so! it's a topic I'm really interested in, really informed on, and enjoy talking about a lot. but it's less fun if people don't actually want to hear it.


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CassandraCain posted...

Man I love this game. Used a beast blood pellet for the first time against blood starved beast + fire paper and I barely remember the fight, it was over so quick.

Never actually researched how those beast pellets work, see speedrunners using them all the time to maximize their dps. What exactly is their damage modifier?

Yes! I made a post relating to this on a private board about a year ago:

For me, this one all comes down to using your total arsenal to your advantage. Bloodborne is a game where there are no spells but you're given plenty of tools that you can employ to make fights go more smoothly. It's kind of funny because I think with this game you often see new players not using their tools very much; Either they don't understand it, or they have too much pride and think they want to beat the game just using their trusty melee weapon. On the reverse side you see more experienced players who have a deep knowledge of the game and can often employ the best tool available to shred through bosses or tough enemies as quickly and safely as possible. It's almost the opposite of what you'd expect but it's very fitting for the lore of Bloodborne.

Freshly recruited Hunters without much understanding of the world will have these inflated ideas about their own ability and, refusing to rely on the tools of a Hunter, or to even learn how to properly use them, will simply go out and try to hunt the beasts in a head to head "fair" and "honorable" battle... often suffering greatly for it. You're just making the game harder for yourself than it needs to be, and not even in a fun challenge run sort of way. Conversely those Hunters who have spent a long time in the dream have learned the best tools in their arsenal, how to use them properly, and when they are best employed. It's how actual "hunters" should be. Relying on tools and clever tactics to take down far more powerful beasts rather than trying to win through brute strength.

It's crazy how often this holds true, with the items in bloodborne being so good and useful and most new players not using them, but experienced players using them. Compare this to lots of other games where inexperienced players tend to rely on items, and more experienced players see it as a point of pride not to use them.

Regarding the Beast Blood Pellet, it actually has a bonus damage modifier that increases the more you attack. You see the meter filling up as you attack? The higher that meter is, the higher % you are getting. The maximum size of this meter (and I think how fast it fills up) is also determined by your Beasthood stat, which is something you have control over. It's really cool once you understand how it works, and this idea of letting yourself become more of a beast to become more dangerous and deal more damage is cooked right into the lore.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh, I just realized Simon's Bowblade scales off Blood and Skill, too...

Between it and Chikage, what's the breakdown on them for a Skill/Bloodbuild? I'm guessing Simon is 50/25 S/B and Chikage is the opposite?

both weapons are actually in a VERY weird place where the standard form scales PURELY on skill, and the buffed form scales PURELY on bloodtinge. it's not like the mixed attack weapons that use physical + arcane. the bloodtinge weapons are like, two different modes that scale completely independent of each other. don't remember off the top of my head if the bloodletter works the same way. the reiterpallasch and rifle spear are purely skill on all of their attacks except the gunshots, which are purely bloodtinge. etc.

a couple of important things to understand, I guess... people say that 'skill and bloodtinge' is better than 'strength and arcane' and while this is true, it's another one of those things that is really only a helpful hint for players who don't really understand how builds work. the reality is that a TRUE bloodtinge build is kinda its own thing. it can benefit from skill, but the two are not inherently linked.

you have to put some thought into when you want to raise your Bloodtinge, how much you're going to raise it, as well as how much you're going to sink into other stats. I think you get the most value out of bloodtinge if you keep it low, or push it all the way to 50. gun damage is pretty difficult to make it feel impressive or impactful unless you really specialize in it. so if you want to do a true bloodtinge character you should go with 50 bloodtinge and learn to rely on your gun.

with 50 bloodtinge... you'll be able to use every gun in the game and see them have a real impact on fights. some of them are better than others, of course. your bowblade will shoot arrows that do MASSIVE damage, allowing you to fight bosses with a totally new and different playstyle by shooting and dodging at range. you also really want to learn how to use blood bullets effectively to get the most out of these traits. you can straight up rely on your firearm as your main method of attack. I've done 'gun only' challenge runs three times now (I did them once a year for a while), and I can say it's a lot of fun to beat the game with just your gun. a little challenging at some parts, but doable. and if you aren't restricting yourself to the challenge format it's going to be even more effective. you'll have all the utility of the gun and the ranged damage while still being able to rely on your melee weapon as needed. win/win

the question remaining is... strength or skill, and how much of each? skill is a better stat to pair with a bloodtinge build, but it's important to understand that not every skill can support extra bloodtinge. so if you're just thinking of playing a 50 skill build, I think it's important to think about whether or not you can also fit 50 bloodtinge and how much you're willing to invest otherwise. unlike arcane, you don't really see spikes in effectiveness at certain benchmarks. with guns they really only get good as you push the stat higher and higher. BLT is very similar to STR and SKILL. you just want 50 points.

however, SKILL is interesting in the fact that it's the damage stat that offers the most value for lower investments. and, with bloodtinge specifically, there are some other benefits.

weapon requirements: having the weapon required skill to wield the reiterpallasch, rifle spear, and bowblade gives you solid options for a weapon that has gun damage built into it. these guns can all be used as effective damage tools with three blood gem set ups. the reiterpallasch used to be one of the best options in the base game. the bowblade outdamages it now, but I will say that the reiterpallasch has much better combat utility (like the combo I mentioned earlier which baits and staggers humanoid NPC hunters)

visceral attack damage: is boosted by your skill stat and the base damage of your weapon. this means any points you invest into skill will see high returns on increased visceral attack damage. if you are using a gun a lot, you'll parry a lot. more visceral attacks + higher skill = more damage.

mixed weapon access: finally to wrap it all up... the base form of the bowblade, reiterpallasch, and the chikage all scale with the skill stat. so having points in skill up to 25 or even 50 is useful. and YES, you can make a build that has 50 bloodtinge and 50 skill. that's probably the most effective, and recommended way to do this. but I always personally feel weird about it because of how every option you have makes use of your skill OR your bloodtinge... but there's no method of attack you ever have access to that scales damage from your skill and bloodtinge at the same time.

tl;dr

bloodtinge builds benefit greatly from having random amounts of skill added
Skill builds do NOT benefit greatly from having small amounts of bloodtinge added, not in the same way that any build can benefit from having small amounts of arcane added

50 bloodtinge + X Skill is good, and any increase in skill is useful at pretty much every benchmark
50 Skill + X Bloodtinge is less useful, your gun will always eventually lag in damage, and the BLT feels like it barely increases your gun damage at any given step along the way

50 Skill + 50 Bloodtinge is good, although I suspect that if you learn to rely on your gun you will often feel like you're often getting more use out of the Bloodtinge stat

bloodtinge and arcane are also the two stats that actually get some impressive gains if they are leveled up early, because both of them have methods of dealing damage which don't require three blood gems to scale upward. this makes the standard build, and progression through the game, a little more advanced than the 'simple' advice which was given to you earlier.

for a bloodtinge build I'd still be trying to get vitality to 25 or 30 early, but I'd also likely push bloodtinge to 18-25 fairly early as well... you will actually see your gun damage go up at a fairly good rate as long as you push your gun to +6 quickly. and even at the start of the game it can make a difference between how many shots are needed to kill father gascoigne for example.

when your melee weapon gets to +7 you can start investing in skill. once again I usually stop around 18-25.

once skill is at 18-25 and feels good, start investing more into bloodtinge. you want to get it to 50 as quickly as possible, even at the cost of vitality gains.

you'll be aiming for THIS build in the early to midgame:
25 vitality
18 skill
50 bloodtinge

from here your gun will have a tangible impact on battles, you can invest more into vitality for more HP, and more into skill for more damage on your melee attacks and visceral attacks. it's very common for me to leave skill at either 18 or 25 for the main game at least, and then only start pushing it from 25 to 50 once I have cleared the base game and I've got nothing else to spend echoes on. you can also make the argument that pushing bloodtinge even higher is a better use of levels, especially if you're playing in a way that HEAVILY emphasizes your gun.

if you're worried that your melee attacks will be underpowered just remembered how long the whirligig saw was effective while you had only 18 strength on this playthrough. and then imagine that your visceral damage was also higher. a solid option to make bloodtinge and arcane runs easier is to pick a weapon that has high base damage and low scaling, that way your low skill won't impact the efficiency of your weapon too much (although it really won't matter at low to mid levels anyway)


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh also I kind of wish you didn't have to beat Cleric Beast to talk to the doll in NG+. I know it's mechanics, but the lore is that you need insight to talk to her, and I had...80, lol.

I don't believe this is the case. The Doll is NEVER awake the first time you visit the Hunter's Dream, which is a little annoying because you have to leave the area and come back a second time just to talk to her. This might be what you experienced. If it's true that she really doesn't wake up until after defeating the Cleric Beast in NG+ that is... really specific and weird.

I'd be surprised if that were actually true and I hadn't noticed.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Yeah, I did the DLC

reading this post amuses me for a few reasons.

remember my first post in this topic, 100 posts ago, where I mentioned that having a fully upgraded weapon with good blood gems would impact the difficulty? lol

maria is tough but not impossible with the whirligig saw. she is actually pretty easy to stun regardless of what weapon you're using, which means faster weapons are even better. but yeah you did get the benefit of the fact that each hit does lots of damage. combined with her easy stunlock, this means you could win the fight more easily because you needed fewer combos to win.

orphan on first try... believe it or not, I also beat him on my first try as well! although by that point I was already a bloodborne vet who had played the base game multiple times, and I also went into the DLC on a fresh file with an optimized build and fought him in NG in a similar situation to yours. so yeah, overall, probably the same level of 'impressive.' your build and your skills really just matter that much.

the main thing I think you experienced while playing through the DLC (especially reading about your orphan fight) is just how overpowered blood vials are. as I mentioned before. most of the fights in bloodborne, assuming you aren't flat out underpowered, can be won just by soaking all of the damage and constantly healing yourself until the boss runs out of health first. there's definitely still a HUGE gap between your level of skill and, say, beating the orphan while using only a few vials.

not to downplay your achievements, though. good job!

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also just realized when I do play again it won't even be this file because it's absolutely gonna be a Skill/Blood build.

You can get the Chikage pretty early, thinking about it.

NG cycles are more fun anyway, this is another thing I was trying to explain early in the topic haha

not so sure about getting the Chikage "early" though. you need to kill Martyr Logarius which is difficult to do, even if you rush to get to Cainhurst as quick as possible it's not as simple as just finding it and picking it up.


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Anagram posted...

Don't Bebop and Rocksteady get beaten up nunchucks and staves?

by fellow mutants with super strength, yes.

rwlh posted...

Fisher clearly has the edge in battle tactics and could easily lay traps Bebop and Rocksteady would fall into, but how tough are their hides? Can they withstand bullets or whatever else is in Fisher's arsenal?

with that being said,

doubt they could beat sam fisher. he seems like he'd just take them down with tactics and traps. maybe I'm also underestimating them a bit and what it would really take to slow them down -- and the difficulty of fighting 2 v 1 -- but honestly they really are THAT dumb and that makes this a particularly bad match up.

it'd be cool to imagine them just steamrolling through trap after trap, being slowed down a bit but not stopped, and hunting him down relentlessly while he just doesn't have the time needed to escape and set up additional layers of defense. but I dunno.

I think <B>Sam Fisher</B> probably wins.

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having a good build, good weapons, and good gems makes bloodborne much easier, yeah. in my opinion it just has a perfect ratio of skill and game knowledge required to succeed. the issue is that so many people make the game harder for themselves by ignoring the RPG mechanics, their voices drown out the informed opinions, and the game has a reputation for being much harder than it really is.

hell, I'd say bloodborne is the most forgiving souls game in terms of difficulty just because of how overpowered blood vials are and the fact that you can carry 20 of them.


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I edited my original post above, in case you didn't see. it does increase the chance, but it doesn't help if the target already has a 100% drop chance. you should keep it on for general play. you'll get more vials, bullets, and other consumables. and if you encounter enemies with drop rates for blood gems that are less than 100%, it WILL increase those odds. more gems = more chances to roll gems that are useful.

so yeah I kinda misspoke earlier. it won't increase the quality of the gems, but it will give you more chances to roll gems unless you're exclusively farming chalice enemies which already have 100% drop rates.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also I think I came here later than I was supposed to...

a little bit, but logarius can still be a pain in the ass. well, probably not with a +10 weapon. I usually wait until I'm between +7 to +9 on my main weapon before I mess around too much in Cainhurst, unless I'm going there to get a specific item.


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oh and the Eye Rune does not increase blood gem drops or the quality of gems. I missed that question in my first reading.

(edit: actually it's a little bit more complicated than that, but it doesn't improve the quality. it does improve the chance of dropping a blood gem, but only if the enemy has less than a 100% drop rate already. for that reason it is actually useful for farming blood gems from, say, the enemies in the first DLC area. but it's not useful for farming blood gems from chalice dungeon bosses since they always have 100% drop rates)

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I would also like to say that fighting Ebriatas and one shoting her by walking around to her butt, holding L2, and repeating until she was dead with absolutely no effort put into it was unbelievable lethargic after my original playthrough where I was nearly brought to tears?

lol nice

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Those are pretty good honestly. Any set of blood gems in the mid to high teen +% is going to represent a pretty significant increase. Of course there is still room to grow, but you're much better off than players who straight up ignore their blood gem set up.

They're multiplicative if you didn't know, so you're getting about 165% of your regular damage already with this set up. If you spend a little bit of time farming you can probably get to 200-250% damage pretty quickly, this is the high to optimized range.

Compare this to someone with like an 8% gem and two empty slots. instead of 400+ AR, they'd probably still have around 260-270 AR.

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What is your blood gem set up currently? I'm kinda curious.

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