Lurker > MariaTaylor

This topic made me feel like playing a bit of Bloodborne again. it's been a little while. I've been mainly just trying to do as much co-op as possible in each area along the way until I get bored of it. the game is way more active than I expected after 5 years, and, more than that, the number of players I connected with who seemed new or at least novice level was really surprising. I thought at this point it was the same few people playing Bloodborne, but apparently not!


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I already mentioned this earlier but I think reach on weapons in bloodborne is generally either useless or actively a detriment most of the time. I think the beast cutter is the best among them, but this is heavily predicated on the stats of the weapon and the fact that the non-whip form is good.

if the spears count as reach weapons, then the spears are easily better than any of the whips. in fact, I'd say every spear in bloodborne is A tier or better, though it's not because of their reach.


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I'd recommend the holy moonlight sword because it's arguably the best of the three weapons, it's very fun to use, promotes advanced techniques like trick attacks and using your full move set -- which will help you become a better player as you master this weapon and learn to apply those techniques to your other weapons.

additionally, you've already put 18 points into arcane.

this means even putting ALL of those other factors aside, in which the holy moonlight sword is the best in pretty much every possible reasoning, it's still the best in terms of pure damage and how it fits into your already existing build.

the beast cutter won't get any benefit from your points in arcane, which is fine, but you already have a purely physical weapon filling that role. the beast cutter would be better if you were doing 50 arcane or 50 str/25 skill.

the amygdala arm does have arcane scaling but it's so minor that you won't get anything out of it. worse, you lose the ability to buff the weapon with consumable items and get nothing in return. at least with the holy moonlight sword you are sacrificing consumable buffs in exchange for solid bonus arcane damage. with the amygdala arm, you will get the benefits of having 50 strength, but it's an inferior weapon and it doesn't reward your 18 arcane nearly as much.

honestly it seems like you are interested in trying out the arm, and I wouldn't really discourage you from doing so. I tried it for myself as well. it's better than just accepting what someone says on the internet, even if they seem to know what they are talking about. but I can say with a decent amount of confidence that because of the stat spread and scaling of the amygdala arm, there is almost no build which really wants to use it. and because of its poor move set, this puts it into an even worse position. it might be the worst weapon in the game... so prepare to be disappointed if you do try it out.


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holy moonlight sword is a good rec for your build. the arcane damage is innate and it scales separately from your physical damage. this means that the weapon will work reasonably well with just your high strength, and it can still gain solid bonus damage later by increasing your arcane (say from 18 to 25 for example).

pros:
the 1 handed greatsword is very fast for the weapon size
both the 1h and 2h have hyper armor
the 1 handed weapon has a good physical damage multiplier for most of its move set
the moveset is solid, and generally supports the playstyle of having hyper armor on a fast attacking weapon

cons:
finding blood gems for a mixed damage weapon can be a little bit more tricky (though ultimately rewarding, and you can certainly benefit from the use of pure physical gems in the meantime)
the damage multiplier for your arcane damage is generally low. you won't actually be dealing as much arcane damage as your listed AR with most of the attacks in your moveset. although in your case this doesn't matter too much since you'll be focusing on strength instead of arcane. the extra arcane damage is just a nice extra bonus in your case.

also worth mentioning that the lack of upgrade materials makes it pretty difficult to use multiple weapons in bloodborne. although it's MUCH better than it used to be. blood chunks are the big bottleneck, being extremely rare and requiring 16 of the damn things to get to +9 with a weapon. in the base game there is a single blood rock to upgrade a weapon to +10, and the DLC added one additional blood rock (as well as a good amount of bloodstone chunks)

you can buy chunks from the messenger bath now but you get this access so late that it doesn't really help you while trying new weapons in a New Game mode

this should be enough to experiment with exactly two weapons comfortably, but it's still hard to play around with more than that until you either start farming high level chalice dungeons OR running NG+ cycles exclusively to stock up on upgrade materials.

weapons with innate elemental or arcane damage are actually very solid for physical attacking builds. since they can't be converted to 100% arcane damage, they aren't very useful for arcane builds. but for a physical attacker it gives you an option to get just a little bit of bonus damage, and to attack certain enemy resistances, without needing to apply consumable items. tends to reward advanced builds with mixed stat spreads the most of all, which is exactly the kind of build you are running now. so yeah... solid choice in this case.


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From this point on you should just invest into strength until you reach 50 strength, yeah. at that point you will be almost level 90 and very likely done with the game and the DLC. once you know what you're doing, bloodborne builds are actually very simple due to the low number of stats.

if you find yourself swimming in blood echoes, have already stocked up on enough consumables to last you forever, and you're not averse to leveling up further... 50 vitality is always useful. 25 skill will allow you to use more weapons, but won't benefit the whirligig saw as much. 25 arcane gives access to the tiny tonitrus and the executioner gloves if you want to mess around with some more hunter tools. and your augur of ebrietas damage will continue to scale up in a very satisfying way.

it won't be possible to fit a useful amount of bloodtinge onto your build, so I wouldn't bother. just stick with the blunderbuss and pistol.


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nice. good job. he's genuinely probably one of the most cheesed enemies in the game, so you should definitely feel proud of being able to beat him in a straight up fight.

pretty soon you'll be able to take on the yaharghul gank squad.

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if you want to parry the bloody crow of cainhurst, the best gun to do it is actually the reiterpallasch.

when you get a chance to engage him with a safe attack, use the combo R1-L1

first hit will stun him. around half the time he'll dodge away, the other half of the time he'll try to counter attack.

if he dodges away, you'll shoot and stun him. free damage, free stun. back off and prepare to engage again.

if he tries to counter attack, your transformation L1 will instantly shoot him with a bullet and parry him.

even if you mess up the timing, the bullet will still stun him and give you an opportunity to dodge away.

this tactic of using the reiterpallasch is very consistent and very powerful against enemy hunters with the same model and moveset as a player character.

...

with regards to the blunderbuss, if you haven't picked it up yet, you may as well. first of all, the price of weapons doesn't scale up. this means it's likely very cheap to get one. secondly, you don't need to upgrade it at all. you'll be using it for utility rather than damage, so a +0 blunderbuss is just as useful for you. although you may want to upgrade it later if you want to use it as your main gun.

aside from the reiterpallasch technique, I think trying to parry the bloody crow is very risky and I wouldn't really attempt it. the reason is because his damage is so high and he's so aggressive. if you mess up a parry you could instantly die and have to start the fight over completely. if I WAS going to try it, with the blunderbuss, I'd probably do this...

I described his three attack methods above. what I'd add is this:

if he dashes or rolls forward, he's likely about to attack or shoot. you should fire your blunderbuss into him right when his roll or dodge ends. if he tries to shoot you, the blunderbuss should interrupt his shot and stun him temporarily. if he tries to attack you, the blunderbuss should parry him. issue is that I think if you get the timing wrong you'll get punished pretty badly. but I'm not sure. it might be worth trying.


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The advantages you have are that you can heal 20+ times and he can only heal three times. And he also drains his own health with his weapon. Use this to your advantage. Be patient. It's one of the few enemies in the game where aggression is not the best strategy.

Stand outside of his attack range and respond appropriately to whatever he does.

If he dashes or rolls forward, he's going to either shoot or attack. Just dodge out of the way.

If he shoots his gun, move or dodge to the side.

If he starts to walk toward you... slowly back up. He'll swing at you and "whiff." This enemy actually heavily rewards players who understand the fundamentals of spacing which is SHOCKINGLY few players, and the reason why he is considered such a difficult opponent. You do NOT need to press dodge, and if you do so you will actually ruin your positioning.

To repeat: if he WALKS toward you, just back up slowly away from him. He will swing at the air in front of you, missing you. After his attack misses, he is vulnerable to a counter attack. This is when you should hit him. He can also be stunned very easily if you have a weapon that deals lots of poise damage, but I'd also advise against just mindlessly mashing attack. Learn how many attacks you can safely get in -- it's probably between 1 and 3 -- and then back off. Do this enough times and he will run out of heals, and then run out of HP.

There is really only three things he can do. Once you know this, he becomes much easier. Although he still requires you to execute things perfectly, of course, and there's little margin for error. I'm not saying he's easy, but you can make him much easier if you understand how the game (and this boss) works.

last thing I'll say is that if you do get hit by one of his attacks, you need the nerve not to panic dodge or try to heal in the default state. a panic dodge has potential to get you shot or attacked, and doesn't do anything to benefit you. it only leaves you with less stamina. trying to heal in the default state will just give him a chance to attack you while you're healing. you need to keep playing safely and carefully, wait for him to miss an attack. while he's recovering from his missed attack, this is when you should heal. safe healing follows the same properties and ideals as safe attacking.

you can also use the lamp in the arena to your advantage. I generally advise fighting him near the back of the cathedral. his shots can't go through the lamp, and it's a good barrier that you can make him circle around when you need a moment to recover your mental state or find a safe opportunity to heal. always be thinking about how to use the environment to your advantage, even in a seemingly open and empty room.


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assuming you mean parrying? parrying is a little more specialized than this. it's not something that you need to practice on every enemy to be "good" at. the core skills are easy to learn. if you understand what a parry is (you seem to already know this), how to land the visceral attack (this is a skill you may be able to improve on), and you don't have the reaction timing of a toad (offset this by using the blunderbuss, or just don't parry) then this is about as much as your core parrying skills are going to matter.

after that it's about learning the specific tells and timing when face a specific enemy, and when you want to parry a specific attack.

parrying is useful against specific bosses and enemies, but there are viable alternatives in all of those situations. I wouldn't call it mandatory for any of them. though in some (even more specific) cases, it does make things a LOT easier.


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bloodborne is the only game of which I have a platinum trophy. so I guess that.

I normally don't play games to completion. I only play them as long as I am having fun. bloodborne was the perfect mix of "all trophies can be obtained if you just play all of the content" and "the game was fun enough that I kept playing and never got tired of it."

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NFUN posted...

And Maria, you nominated stuff for this like two years ago. Your nominations were... something

what were my other ones? now I'm curious

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PrinceKaro posted...

like the prion starts outside her body and has no higher brain function and no way to infect star unless she randomly starts eating the dirt the prions are on

I think this argument is better, although it still doesn't really account for how star would actually get rid of prion either

but... there's absolutely no way that I nominated prion in good faith anyway, and I'm not super invested in the outcome of whatever this is. so yeah, have fun.


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if you told me you were going to design a driverless car that intentionally tried to get into wrecks, I could almost be convinced that it would still be safer than some drivers I know!


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imagine if there is a bomb inside of a car that will definitely go off in ten minutes. you have the ability to take the car apart by splitting it into pieces and then build a new car, with different pieces, in the exact same place. the new car would still be destroyed when the bomb goes off.


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we love waifu topics no matter how many times they are done

alternately, it's most interesting to hear someone talk at length about things in which they have a vast wealth of specialized knowledge and a high level of enthusiasm.


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I think prion will eventually lose to like reed richards or something, but this is not the battle that prion is going to lose.

Drakeryn posted...

so if you have a prion disease and you transform, do you still have it? it's an abnormal accumulation of protein in the brain, but when you transform, you have a different brain...right?

I know in some cases, shapeshifting magic can be used to heal injuries. dunno if it works that way for Star in particular.

I'll try to keep my 'argument' brief, but this post basically just gives me a chance to explain while also responding. 2 for 1 special.

I guess the way I picture it, even in the most favorable interpretation, is that if star transforms their brain from Brain A to Brain B which is occupying the same space it doesn't really solve their situation. transforming your brian doesn't cause prion to be deleted. but, at the same time, prion is still inside of the new brain, continues to replicate, and... game over.

so yeah I'll vote for Prion

I also don't think cartoon characters are well equipped to deal with realistic, dark issues like incurable neurological disorders.

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what is happening here

why was I tagged

did I nominate a prion for a MPFC contest like 10 years ago or something

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for a better understanding of what I mean...

Your stamina is 96 right now. if you equip the ACM +15% rune, you will have 106 Stamina.

to reach 106 stamina through leveling you need to go from 11 endurance to 15 endurance.

but if you equip the ACM+15% rune with 15 endurance, you'll jump from 106 stamina to 121 stamina at this time.

if the amount of stamina you need is anywhere between 96 and 120, you have effectively wasted points on your build.

(EDIT: In case what I said above was still unclear and how it relates to my previous post, think of it this way... the 4 levels you spend on endurance will either raise you from 96 to 106 right now OR from 96 to 121 later)

how many points do you actually need? that's a tough question. I think a good bench mark is being able to swing your weapon in the base 1 handed form R1-R1-R1 and then still have a little bit of stamina left to dodge. you can try R1-L1-R1 as well and see if this works out.

(EDIT 2: Changed the combo above because I remembered the weapon you are using)

this will give you the option to attack four times in a row when you need to, an amount of attacks that should be enough to secure the kill on any single enemy... while also giving you the option to dodge after any normal string of attacks (three or less)

106 should be plenty for these purposes, and I think around 96 is usually good enough already even without the ACM+15 rune. bloodborne gives the player an absurd amount of stamina by default. although the rune does help a bit for margin of error or needing to engage multiple groups of foes before your stamina can fully regen.

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It's tough for me to answer that because I don't personally think you should raise your endurance. I guess the best benchmark I can give is that you should wait until after you get Anti-Clockwise Metamorphosis +15% Stamina. Equip that rune. If you still feel like you don't have enough stamina, THEN increase your endurance.

For similar reasons to strength, you'll get more points of stamina per point of endurance if you wait until later. The best question to ask is whether or not you're already getting as many swings as you need to be able to safely engage enemies.

If the answer is no you can either:

A. Invest in Endurance now, but know that these points might end up being wasted in the long run (as you'd likely get more points by just equipping +15% later on, while investing 0 points right now)

or

B. get better at the game so you can safely engage enemies while spending less stamina.

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it's tough going from 8 to 18 because yeah at a certain point, for 10 levels, it's gonna feel like your build isn't really gaining anything. I think this is the true barrier of entry for arcane and bloodtinge build. for players who aren't sure how many points and where to put them -- if they will even pay off -- it's difficult to invest 10 points straight into arcane before you're able to use the item you want to try out.

all I can say is that the augur of ebrietas really is worth it on just about any build that can fit 18 points of arcane. in the worst case scenario it's an instant knockback + knockdown that does tons of damage even to the larger free roaming enemies in the game.

you have a good amount of vitality already, you'll really only need to put more points into it later on if you feel like the lategame + DLC enemies are hitting you too hard. a 'finished' build should have 50 vitality, but you will likely beat the game before finishing your build. for right now... you don't need to put any additional points into strength until you have at least a +7 weapon with good blood gems.

so you can put points into arcane for now, I think.

it may seem counter intuitive but trust me... the points you invest into strength right now will only increase your damage a relatively small amount. but if you wait and invest them later, you'll get a LOT more damage in return per point of strength (due to your higher base damage and higher scaling modifier. I can elaborate on this more if you want). you probably don't need the tiny boost of extra damage now, but you will need the big boost of extra damage later. the game mechanics both reward and support this strategy.

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Peace___Frog posted...

I forget what the exact differences are between the buss and Ludwig's, but i think it has mostly to do with the spread?

the ludwig rifle has a MUCH longer dropoff range before you start to lose damage. you can actually shoot things at a distance and get a large % of your full damage. however, with shotgun type pellets, you want to be closer to the target anyway to stack as many pellets as possible. so it's actually got a bit of anti-synergy going on with its design. it allows you to hit harder from further away, but you want to be close to the enemy to deal your optimal max damage... but the long barrel prevents you from firing into the enemy up close.

for this reason I'd say the ludwig rifle is a pretty low tier gun.


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on that note I'll add -- the problem with the ludwig rifle and the evelyn is the long barrel of the gun can actually cause issues with parrying. both of them have diminished parrying consistency because of the longer gun barrel. if the enemy is too close to you, it's much easier for them to get inside of your firing range as you shoot past them.

both guns are solid options for dealing damage at long range, however. every gun really has its own role that it specializes in. I'm not particularly a fan of the cannon but it definitely fills its niche of turning your QS bullet stock into one huge blast of damage. it actually has really bad damage efficiency because of how many bullets it consumes... so basically it's like an even more extreme version of the repeating pistol I described above, with absolutely all gun utility removed in exchange for damage.


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tl;dr you should probably use the blunderbuss because it has better utility, more consistent parrying, and better stagger. this means not only is it easier to parry, but even if you mess up the timing it will be likely to stun the enemy and stop them from hitting you.

all that being said, you might still feel more comfortable using the pistol because you don't have to learn how to use it, you just have to press L1 on reaction time. you'll miss a lot more parries, and you lose out on the utility of the blunderbuss (for stuff like dealing with dogs or enemy hunter NPCs), but this won't matter as much to a novice who isn't using their gun correctly anyway.


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yeah that looks like a real build haha

pizza cutter is awesome, it might be my favorite weapon. it's the one that I used to beat the DLC for the first time, and I had lots of fun with it.

regarding guns...

blunderbuss is better for parrying if you are going to learn the enemy "tells." it has a very wide hitbox for the bullets that it fires, which is very important because of how fast enemies move in bloodborne. sometimes with the hunter pistol you will fire with the correct timing, but the enemy will move out of the way of your gun as they swing their body. assuming the player is parrying correctly

the hunter pistol rewards better reaction time, while the blunderbuss rewards better knowledge of the game. however, putting BOTH of those factors aside, the hunter pistol is the gun that will "drop" more parries because of its potential to miss shots. the blunderbuss will NEVER miss an enemy, and you will ALWAYS get the parry if your timing is correct. it's just that the timing is a little different (earlier). the reason many players favor the hunter pistol is because they have better reaction timing than they have knowledge of the game, and they think the dropped parries are just something you "have to" deal with.

if you want to use your gun to deal damage to things at range, you have two options with your build. the repeating pistol will do the most damage per shot, but it will use 2 bullets per shot. this is useful if, for example, you almost never use your gun but if you're fighting a difficult boss with a sliver of health and you want to safely kill them from range. the hunter pistol does less damage per shot, but it has more damage efficiency because it fires only one bullet per shot. if you plan to use the gun somewhat frequently to engage enemies from a distance and get extra damage, the hunter pistol will be better for you. it will be less useful against bosses, but more helpful for killing stuff like winter lanterns without engaging them (and not running out of bullets to do so)

also worth mentioning that the repeating pistol will have more impact on things when you land a parry, due to the higher initial shot damage. but you'll have less chances to safely land a parry because of the higher cost of usage. I'd probably only recommend the repeating pistol to an experienced player that understands how to use blood bullets effectively. having half as many shots is a pretty huge penalty for an inexperienced player.

edit: one final edit because I think the blunderbuss is insanely underrated and I do feel the need to bring up a few more of its good points. the blunderbuss is easily the best gun for dealing with dogs. once again, because of their fast movement, it can be hard to stop them with a pistol. with the blunderbuss just make sure you're facing the right general direction and fire. if you didn't know, gun damage will always knock dogs to the ground. stops them from running, and you can kill them safely as soon as they stand back up.

and with regards to damage... okay, wall of text incoming here.

it's important to note that I specifically said "at range" above. this is because, in terms of damage, the blunderbuss can actually deal insane damage. you just have to get up close and shotgun enemies. it doesn't work well in the early game, but it works exceptionally well once you have the right blood gem set up. the way the blunderbuss works is that the damage shown on the stat screen is the damage for a single "pellet." when you fire the blunderbuss, it shoots multiple pellets out in a spray pattern. depending on the size of the enemy, and your positioning, you CAN hit enemies with multiple pellets. this means when you're standing close to an enemy, the damage is going to be MUCH higher than the listed attack rating.

most people see that the Hunter Pistol has a much higher listed AR than the Blunderbuss and assume it's not good at dealing damage, but this couldn't be further than the truth. when used properly, it can outdamage the Evelyn. the big reason for this is the usage of +Damage blood gems. not +% Damage, but just flat extra damage. the individual pellet damage of the blunderbuss is low, and so extra % damage won't increase it by very much. but, by the same token, extra FLAT damage will MASSIVELY increase the damage output. example, your damage per pellet is listed as 45 base damage. if you find a blood gem that adds +20 flat damage, this is almost a 50% damage increase! You are NOT going to find a +50% damage gem for any other gun. I don't know if this is an oversight on the development team or if they did it intentionally, but I've tested the guns out on a specialized bloodtinge build and I was able to confirm that my blunderbuss was dealing more damage than the evelyn in the optimal scenario. of course, the downside to this is the range. the evelyn (and other guns) are still going to be better at shooting things safely from far away. but it's still really interesting, and something to consider.

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I'd be happy if it actually happened, but at this point I can't even get my hopes up. I mean, really, best case scenario? Winds of Winter comes out and it just means we have ANOTHER book to wait for. This won't even be the end of the wait. It's crazy.

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for sure. just to be clear, you don't need to play every encounter perfectly and use the optimal weapon to have fun or be successful at playing bloodborne. I think the important thing I'm trying to stress here is what makes a C tier weapon, rather than what makes an A tier weapon.

when you press R1 repeatedly and the enemy gets pushed back, and then your second or third swing randomly misses because the weapon swings at a weird angle.

when you're trying to hit an enemy in front of you but your weapon keeps bouncing off of the wall instead of attacking.

when you try to attack an enemy but they just soak all of your attacks and then punch you back 3x as hard before you can kill them.

this is the kind of stuff that makes a C tier weapon. this is what I'm talking about. it won't make it impossible to win the game but there's going to be way more 'frustrating' moments. even novice players understand that they do not enjoy this, even if they don't really understand what is going on or why it's happening. or, worse, they just think this is the problem with the game itself rather than being aware that it's a problem with the weapon they are using.


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saw spear and saw cleaver meet basically all of the requirements mentioned above for high tier weapons, yeah. and on top of that you can get them early on, they're easy to use, and you can make them insanely viable with very little investment. they check basically every single box you could want to check.

for my money I also consider to be the hunter axe a very high tier weapon. although it's not gonna be as good as the two mentioned above, there can really only be one "best." it also fits all of the qualities mentioned above, but it trades a little bit of striking speed for god tier stun, rally, and knockdown. you can more or less facetank the entire game by just holding down the R2 button and smashing enemies while they run into you and stab you. yes, they will damage you. but they also end up getting pancaked in the process, and you recover all of your health when you damage them.

if you like the tanking playstyle in the other souls games, the Hunter Axe is the closest comparable weapon in bloodborne. and it doesn't even require investing in equip load or figuring out the optimal armor set, since the poise is built into the weapons in BB.


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Church Pick is like B leaning C, that's why I say to just be a little bit wary. It is fun to look at, and the stats can actually be fairly good -- the damage is also deceptively good because of the bonus damage modifiers. And while you did enjoy the move set, I really think the move set is actually the weakest aspect of this weapon.

The (sometimes boring) reality is that the best weapons in bloodborne are the ones that very quickly hit the space right in front of you with enough poise damage to stun the enemy you're fighting. That's the situation you're going to be in 90%+ of the time. It's even better if the weapon has a good transformation attack to help out with extra stagger against medium and large enemies, or, alternately, a solid charged R2 for spacing, knockdown, and crowd control.

Church Pick is lacking in almost all of these qualities. It has a slightly delayed swing and attacks at irregular angles. I have a lot more I could say about why extra reach on weapons isn't really that great, but I figure I'll just leave it at this. I doubt anyone wants to hear me continuing to lecture on this stuff with an even greater level of detail. At the end of the day, whatever "feels" good is going to be "best" for most players.

tl;dr church pick is decent. it can be usable. but it's closer to a C tier weapon than it is to an A tier weapon, so be careful about getting your hopes up. especially with how long it'll take to even find the thing.

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If you're looking for a weapon to safely shoot enemies from a distance, it compares very favorably to the Evelynn. I was even out damaging the Evelynn with the bow blade when I started messing around in the high level endgame chalices with my gunner character (on normal shots). If you have low blood tinge you can still use it mainly just as a sword, but you end up with a weapon that only has half of a move set -- the transformation changes it into a bow, and the bow is really just that. A bow.

Also I wouldn't put all of your eggs into the church pick basket, to be honest. It fits into the same niche as the other C tier weapons I mentioned above, maybe borderline B tier. It has a unique style and it's kinda cool, but it's not that great to use. The two handed version has weird hitboxes and attack timing, and less stagger than a 2H weapon should have. Meanwhile, the one handed weapon feels slower than a one handed weapon should be, and feels like it has a limited and clunky attack path. One thing it has going for it is really high arcane scaling.

Meanwhile, if you are doing a skill build, you can pick up the Rakuyo which is easily a B/A tier weapon. Similar to the whirligig saw, the Rakuyo feels very fun and satisfying to use, and it actually has a good enough speed, move pool, and stagger that it IS very useable.


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Correct. You won't have access to the Church Pick, the Bloodletter, the Rakuyo, or the Kos Parasite until after you get into the second half.

If we're including the bow blade I'll just mention that it is actually GREAT, especially if you're doing a skill build, a bloodtinge build, or a skill + bloodtinge build. Easily an A Tier weapon. It's basically top tier in either role, although maybe not as good as the best skill weapons, it stands right up there with the best guns in terms of damage output.


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I keep using Blood Vials when trying to change weapon modes.

You should get past this pretty quickly, but still pretty common. I think they did this on purpose to troll players or something. For me I tend to have the opposite problem where if I try to go back to playing other Souls games and I want to heal myself, my character just stands there fiddling their their weapon.

Peace___Frog posted...

Tldr - don't concern yourself too much with optimal play, feel free to do suicide runs after Amelia (though I'm unsure if you'll like the arm, given your dislike of the kirkhammer), and if you have any questions we're here to help.

If you plan to go this route, here are the weapons you'll have 'easy' access to.

Beast Cutter: You can get this pretty quickly. People compare it to the threaded cane but with strength scaling. I think... the comparison is really aesthetic at best, and even then it's still a little flimsy. The TC biggest problem is lack of hard hitting, while this weapon actually hits hard. The TC also tends to feel like it doesn't reach quite as far as you want it to, while this weapon has a really good feel for reach. Basically this weapon is more like what you'd want the threaded cane to actually be. In addition to this, the non-trick forms play totally different and the beast cutter is a solid one handed weapon option that doesn't use the same sword moveset or sprite as the other one handed swords in the base game. Solid B tier.

Boom Hammer: You'll pick this up naturally as you progress through the level. It has a similar problem to the Tonitrus where the moveset feels pretty limited in what the weapon can actually do. Your L1 button is reserved for buffing the weapon and you don't have a trick form, just a buffed form. It improves upon those issues a little bit, giving some slight variety to the moveset, but... The thing about the Tonitrus is that it's a TOP tier weapon, despite being boring. It's worth using because of how good it is. The Boom Hammer is NOT a top tier weapon. The buff has to be re-applied constantly, and the weapon doesn't land elementally buffed hits as frequently. The charge attack may be worth investigating but I doubt it compares favorably to stuff like the Hunter's Axe. Simple is better. It's probably C tier.

Amygdalan Arm: This one will require you to get into a side area, but thankfully you don't have to get back out. Once you've picked up the arm, even if you die to all of the chaotic shit in there, you'll be fine. There's also lots of upgrade materials in the cave. This weapon has a bit of a delay on its attack patterns which can make it feel unsatisfying to use. It's a fun alternative option for an arcane/strength build, but... it's definitely not in the A or B tier of weapons.

Beasthunter Saif: This one is a little further in and will require a good amount of 'running past' stuff to reach it. It's a skill based weapon that promotes a unique playstyle. The Saif has a longer wind-up before your initial attack, and more of a forward step, than other weapons in the game. The trick attack also has movement built into it. At the end of the day, the use of this weapon is all about positioning on the battlefield. It will actually make your life harder if your strategy is to circle strafe everything, but even if you are using spacing strategies I sometimes find that the built in movement is more of a hindrance than a help. Similar to the Amygdalan arm I think this one is fun and unique but not great, and is likely C tier as well.

Whirligig Saw: Finally something actually great. Though you will have to totally explore the first area and go onto an optional path to find this -- it's worth it. The one handed form is very satisfying, it has a fast swing but TONS of stagger as you're essentially bashing enemies with a flanged mace repeatedly. But when you press the L1 button the fun really comes out. It's a giant pizza cutter that you can use to slash enemies to pieces. I wouldn't say it has a top tier move set, but it FEELS amazing to use, and the move set is good enough that the weapon can easily be used. Especially the high stagger and relatively fast attacks for the type of weapon it is, these attributes carry over into the 2H form as well. Easily a solid B tier weapon, I might even go so far as to say it's an A tier.

If you want the Holy Moonlight Sword you'll have to beat the first boss, but I don't think you'll be ready to do that for a while. When people recommend you should be at level 65+ with a mostly or fully upgraded weapon (and decent blood gems), what they really mean is that you need all of those things to be able to fight the very first boss safely.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

but the early game for an Arcane build is tough times.

in my opinion this is a very common misconception. early game arcane is not only doable, it's actually pretty easy. saw cleaver with minimum strength and skill is still a beastly weapon. the molotov cocktails and the flamesprayer also completely destroy the early game bosses... especially if you are investing in the arcane stat.

one of the challenge runs I've done is an arcane item/tool only challenge. I've killed gascoigne using only oil urns and molotov cocktails. and believe me, I was not ready for just how fast you can melt the blood starved beast and vicar amelia if you are using the flame sprayer, legitimately, as your main method of attack.

it's not too long after this where you start to get elemental gems that allow you to convert your saw cleaver (or weapon of choice) into a fire weapon, and this also makes them scale fully on the arcane stat regardless of how low your str/skill is. on top of this you have the absolutely broken augur of ebrietas to rely on, and your other hunter tools will be good in specific situations -- to the point where you don't even need to use your melee weapon very much.


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Vigor at the start

Str/Skill as needed to equip your weapons

Once your Vigor gets to about 30, you can put it on hold for a while

Use your spare blood echoes along the way to BUY BLOOD VIALS

otherwise you'll be one of many players bitching later on about how you "need" to grind for blood vials in this game, when you really don't. As long as you keep buying them every time you have extra blood echoes, you'll be fine.

focus on finding upgrade materials for your weapon. this is how you will get more damage. at around +7, you will start to see your stats matter. one point of strength can give 4+ points of damage, instead of only 1-2 points of damage.

make sure you pick up some blood gems along the way. there are SOME in the base game, but the good ones are mostly in the back half. you can get them by doing the chalice dungeons. as Gehrman says, when the beasts loom large, seek the holy chalice. alternately, since you're doing the DLC anyway, you should be aware that enemies in the first area of the DLC can drop pretty solid blood gems.

+10-15% damage in all three slots will make a HUGE difference for your damage output, and these are not even great gems. but they're good enough to matter a lot.

Once you gave a +7 weapon and three decent blood gems, then start investing into damage. soft caps are 25, hard caps are 50.

if you feel like enemies are hitting you really hard, put extra points into vigor.

you'll want to slowly raise from 30 to 50 vigor, but you also need to pick up damage along the way. and your damage is going to start going up VERY fast. especially once your weapon hits +9 or +10 and the damage scaling is increased along with the base damage.

if you have a hard time swinging your weapon enough times in a row to kill a weak enemy, consider upgrading your endurance a little bit. 16 or 18 points is what I'd consider to be pretty high, but I'm also a player who is very skilled and efficient. just remember that higher damage will let you kill the enemy with fewer swings. more HP will make it so that a failed dodge is less of a big deal. but more stamina doesn't do ANYTHING for you unless you are constantly draining your stamina to 0.

if you want to try something more complex -- 18 Arcane is a solid investment, for the Augur of Ebrietas, the BEST Hunter Tool in the game. it has two very important effects of trick weapons combined into one fast item that uses no stamina. it has just as much knock-down effect as a fully charged "heavy" type weapon, allowing you to push enemies back and knock them down. and the kicker? if you hit an enemy from behind it will stagger them and set them up for a backstab. instantly. without needing to fully hold down R2 to charge your weapon. it's crazy how overpowered and useful it is. this is also enough Arcane to use the Beast Roar which can be used to knock down most enemies and gives you a few seconds to recover your stamina whenever you need to.

you can also pick up some high +20%ish gems later on in the main story as well, if you search all of the lategame areas.

I think that covers everything.


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Xiahou Shake posted...

I straight up disagree with the "lol just start over" mentality - his character's not that bad.

this is not what I said. I said IF he is going to replay the game anyway, he might as well just experience the DLC on a fresh file along with a fresh playthrough. if he's not going to start over, then he just needs to do the DLC before he goes into NG+

he's using the ludwig holy blade and his attack rating is under 600

and his HP is EXTREMELY low

I feel like you're really underplaying, or you just don't understand, how bad that is. especially trying to play the DLC, for the first time, in NG+

Xiahou Shake posted...

If you don't care about PvP then there's really no possible way to fuck your character since you can just keep leveling up to an unreasonable point.

I don't think anyonecares about PvP in bloodborne. also every level will require progressively more and more blood echoes. he's already overleveled and his build is far below where it should be in terms of HP and damage even if he was level 80ish

do you really understand the amount of effort it would take to fix such a build?

Xiahou Shake posted...

And his only real issues are underprioritizing VIT, overprioritizng END and splitting his damage.

he underprioritized the most important stat and way overprioritzed the least important stat...

his Str/Skill being split is not even a problem since he's using LHB. the issue is with how low they both are. at least he can get a bit more damage by pushing skill to 25 but after that it's going to become expensive, and his HP is VERY low.

Xiahou Shake posted...

Frankly the game's not hard enough to warrant the level of perfection the two of you are advocating for.

I'm not advocating that he play the game perfectly. but a comprehensive knowledge of the game can help make the experience better at all levels of play, even lower levels of play. I'm sharing detailed, relevant knowledge. if he wants to ignore it, that's fine.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Because theoretically it's looking like I can get to some of the weapons I want without beating Ludwig, which means I could go into the DLC in a new game whenever it first unlocks to rush for them even if I'm not strong enough for the area yet, right? I don't know when the DLC unlocks, though.

You can go right after you beat Amelia. although the enemies there will be very difficult for you, it should be possible to run around and pick up items. I don't know how fun this would actually be. but it is possible. and you find upgrade materials in there, too.


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh, and is there anything I should make sure to do before starting NG+ other than the DLC?

I'm a big advocate for allowing your first playthrough to just be that, a first playthrough. it's more fun if you make a second character, have a better understanding of how to play the game and how to build a character, and then worry about finding all the stuff you missed the first time through.

bloodborne also has three endings, and expects you to view all three for "completion," so I believe Miyazaki probably has similar thoughts to me when it comes to this. he likely designed the game with the idea that people would play it multiple times. and this also matches with the high skill ceiling and learning curve of the game -- even compared to other souls games.

I don't think I even really got "good" at bloodborne until partially through my third run.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Man I really, really want to play the game with these late game weapons though. Like it's the entire reason I'm wanting to pick up Bloodborne again to begin with.

that I do understand. I wish there was a way to unlock more weapons earlier on in the game. but I assume there are probably some early game weapons that you haven't used yet? you can use those until Amelia, then go into the DLC immediately and pick up a new weapon there.


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CaptainOfCrush posted...

EDIT: I'm biased af since Bloodborne is an all-time top tenner for me, but I encourage you to just start over so you can re-spec your character and so you don't put yourself through a brutal NG+ DLC. I generally agree with Lisel - don't touch any other stats until your VIT is at 30, and then you can level your STR and DEX such that you have the minimum requirements for the Church Pick or whichever main weapon you want to use. If you stick to VIT and upgrading your Saw Cleaver early on, you'll reach the DLC (and its weapons) way earlier than you think.

I was going to say something like this as well, honestly. If you are planning to replay the game I would recommend just... replaying it on a new file and doing the DLC then. You're not likely to get much out of NG+, especially with this character.

Enemies are going to be punching you like you've got 50 Vit, you have 32. Enemies have HP bars that are expecting you to have 70+ points into damage dealing stats. You have only 51. The only stat you have that is "high" is endurance, which is the worst stat in the game.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

eah, Ludwig. I remember I wanted to use Kirkhammer but it ended up being, uhhhh....bad. I also wanted to try Blades of Mercy which is why I did get SOME skill, and it just wasn't working out.

My general playstyle was circle, back attack once, circle, so I was in fact doing a lot of dodging which is prob why I did pump endurance to 30. Also explains my runes of choice I guess, lol.

I like the Kirkhammer but it's basically just a slightly worse version of the Ludwig Holy Blade. And to top that off, I personally wouldn't recommend the LHB to new players. I understand why it's such an overrated weapon and why so many people flock to it. it promotes, encourages, and reinforces a very simplistic playstyle that allows people to succeed at the game even if they aren't very good at it.

but I also believe that it heavily limits players and prevents them from learning important skills that they should be developing to get better at the core gameplay.

pre-emptive attacking and spacing are often much better strategies than circle strafing, but they also require you to learn a bit more about the enemies you're fighting -- and you can't use the same tactics for every enemy. LHB is generally bad for pre-emptive attacking, and only decent for spacing.


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Alright this is where I'm at.

based on your build I wouldn't worry about having too easy of a time with the DLC. what weapon are you using? Ludwig Holy Blade?


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regarding the use of heavier, more stamina intensive weapons. because of the slow swing speed you generally won't be attacking as often. for this reason, while each individual swing takes more stamina, you still end up using about the same stamina overall. actually, I found that these types of weapons require even LESS stamina if they are used optimally.

one thing I will acknowledge is that I am a very high level challenge runner. I press the dodge button as little as possible, I time all of my attack chains, and I use very specific attack patterns and combinations. it's definitely "true" that any point of stamina is wasted -- at the highest level of play -- but I guess it's a bit hyperbolic for me to say something like that. I do think points invested into stamina are a bit of a waste, but ultimately people are going to get as much as they feel comfortable with. and lots of people dodge more than they need to, and they have uncomfortable tics which cause them to mash the dodge button or to do unneeded actions in between attack patterns, not counting their attack chains, etc. etc.

anyway I got a bit off topic but the other thing about the slow weapons is that often one of their best features is their CHARGE ATTACK. which is a single, big hit attack. it does drain a lot of stamina but you also have plenty of time to recover your stamina after you use it. because of this, running out of stamina is never an issue (once again -- if used correctly)

tl;dr if you're using one of the weapons with one of the high tier charge attacks you will knock the enemy down and then your stamina bar will recover before they finish standing back up. and you generally won't be mashing the attack button with such a weapon, so you don't need to worry about running out.


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Xiahou Shake posted...

Is this assuming use of an endurance Caryll Rune? I'll admit that it's been a little while since I've played, but I definitely seem to recall more stamina heavy weapons definitely needing some kind of investment, particularly if you care at all about PvP.

It's more useful for PvP, but also PvP in Bloodborne is like... basically not really a thing. The game has really poor servers and the PvP is super clunky on top of generally having worse latency than most other Souls-like games. Lastly, the person who has better blood gems is going to win in PvP more often than not. Having a few extra points in endurance is not going to save you when the other guy kills you in 2-3 hits and it takes you 6-10 hits to kill him. But if you really, really want to invest into endurance.... even then I wouldn't recommend going above... I don't even know. Some people say 20 but even that feels high to me. So many wasted points that could be used for HP or Damage.

And yeah normally I use one endurance rune and two health runes. But sometimes I swap out the endurance rune or the lower health rune if I need a specific resistance. In my last, I dunno, dozen or so builds I have not put any points into Endurance. And I've used every weapon in the game seriously at least once.

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The only issue there is that Endurance is a totally useless stat in this game. The best way to get resistances is to equip a rune. And no matter which starting class you picked, you will have more than enough stamina as long as you are playing the game correctly.

Any single point you put into Endurance is a wasted point. Which is sad because a lot of new-ish players will invest heavily into it since they love to spam the dodge button and keep running out of stamina.

Strength and Skill are actually good, just not early on. You do eventually want to get one or both of them up to 25... And then work toward 50 in your main damage dealing stat. In addition to having 50 Vigor, and however much Arcane you need to use the appropriate tools, this is pretty much the catch-all Bloodborne build that works for any character. (50 Vigor, 25 or 50 in Str/Skill, Arcane or Bloodtinge as needed for your guns and hunter tools you plan to use)

It's also really common for new-ish players to totally ignore blood gems which, as I mentioned above, are one of the two MOST important things. This is why I think you're likely to have a terrible time in NG+.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I don't actually even want to beat the DLC until the NG+

this is a terrible idea, btw

the DLC in particular massively spikes in difficulty in NG+

if you're trying to do it for the first time in NG+ you are going to have a pretty bad time. it doesn't add anything to the experience other than making the enemies have higher stats... which will just serve to frustrate you more as every encounter is less forgiving and requires more repetitions to win.

also being level 90 is not "severely overleveled"

severely overleveled is like... 150

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seems like you've already moved on, but I'll answer anyway just because I like talking about bloodborne

level doesn't matter too much in bloodborne. huge differences in level can make an impact on difficulty, but it's less noticeable than you'd think. the DLC is some of the hardest content in the game. you are absolutely not going to just walk in there and steamroll the DLC after not playing the game for over a year just because you have a few extra points in some stats.

the most important one is vitality. if you have enough extra you can turn a potential two hit kill into a three hit kill, and this gives you more chances to mess up and still win fights. if your build stacks a lot of vitality the game will be more forgiving, but it won't actually get easier. blood vials will also restore (relatively) more health, which gives added value to each vial that you use.

the two biggest things that can influence your difficulty are weapon upgrade level, and blood gems. if your weapon is more fully upgraded, you will get more base damage but ALSO higher return on any investments. this is why it's fairly pointless to increase your damage stats (strength, skill) until later on when your weapon is more fully upgraded. additionally, blood gems are going to give a massive damage multiplier on top of this.

if you go into the DLC with fully upgraded weapons and top tier blood gems? yeah, it's going to be a little bit easier than it would otherwise be.

your other stats really only start to matter AFTER you have upgraded your weapons already. this is why level "doesn't matter." the one exception to this is arcane but it's a more complicated stat that I doubt you are using at all. and while bloodtinge is similarly complicated, guns are just like melee weapons. you can easily circumvent low stats by using the correct gun and fully upgrading it.


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Awesome. Thanks for sharing, I'm gonna save these as well.

Also some of these other quotes are deserving of more comics...

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rule34

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I played one of the Jake Hunter games

it kinda sucked

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definitely not. people have overall gotten more annoying in recent years, but I've been through much, much worse in my life than just "being annoyed."


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I picked golden deer, pretty arbitrarily. mostly just because I liked claude >= dimitri > edelgard based on the first few interactions you get with them. never finished playing the game. I think there is just too much stuff that slows the gameplay down and distracts from the stuff I was interested in. got bored and moved on to other things. I still feel weird about it since I do remember thinking it was a pretty solid FE game while I was playing it, but I couldn't be motivated to see it through to the end.

it's also a strange directing decision to have the game reward the player for replaying multiple different routes, but they also make it like absolute hell to replay this game because of all the boring extra side shit to do between missions and the fact that so many of the early missions are the exact same regardless of your choices.


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also look into the legality of making money off of something that uses characters and images which belong to nintendo, sony, etc.

you don't want to be caught off guard by this kind of information in the worst way possible. even if you find out that it's a legally gray area and you decide to proceed, at least you'll do so with the right expectations that something might go wrong at any time.


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it can be hard to try something risky, but it feels amazing when you succeed. I've been making games as a hobby for most of my life but I almost never shared my work with anything other than some close friends. just recently I finally decided to put some of my work out there and I was really surprised by the response I got. way more people played the game, shared their comments on it, than I expected. the presence and community continues to grow and there are a good number of people who seem really into it.

like I legitimately have fans who would play whatever else I put out next just because my name was in the credits. that is pretty wild to think about. the internet has sort of dulled our expectations to just how much something like "1,000" views on a youtube video really is, but even if you sell like 100 of homemade bracelets to people all around the world that is something pretty awesome.

try to figure out how you are going to market your materials, and how you are going to ship them, before you go any further. do a bit of research based on how other people have done it in the past. you seem to already be doing this. um, don't expect to get rich quick. I mean, stranger things have happened, but definitely don't rely on that happening.

a great way to drive sales is to go viral on reddit but it's hard to make that happen organically. once you have something that you think is worth showing off, some kind of 'I spent X hours making this from simple beads!' post on the r/gaming forum could go a long way. these threads can absolutely blow up if posted at the right time. if it's something truly awesome, there are usually people in the comments asking how/where to buy one. have your shop ready before you make those kinds of posts. you can make future posts like 'you guys like the castlevania bead print I made before, here's one of Mega Man...' stuff that gets around the marketing clause but allows you to market your product while maintaining brand recognition.


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as cheap as possible in pretty much every regard


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