Lurker > Voxwik

I don't agree with everything he says but I agree this mob mentality is stupid. If you do not 1:1 copy the mantra of the outrage mob, even if you say nothing at all, they slap the racist label on you. Don't feed the outrage mob.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

Firing people for something totally unrelated to their job is monstrously unethical. The exception is if it actually affects their job, or if it's something really outlandish like leading hate rallies.

It's an unfortunate situation. We have this cancerous "never forgive, dig up anything no matter how far in the past then delete/fire/cancel anything involved with the person" cancel culture. It's backwards, amoral, and shameful.

Then we have the far right lunatics capitalizing on it for political gain. As my signature says, people need to nip this EVIL cancel culture in the bud. Don't give the far left power.

Joe Biden may not have been the best choice, but thank goodness from unrealistic far left lunatic didn't win the nomination. The center must rise. Enough. That doesn't, however, mean pandering to Trump's most devote racist Christian supremacist (while denouncing actual Christian values as "too liberal") followers.

I am sick and tired of "moral" outrage hate mobs ignoring apologies and digging in on events that happened years ago. ENOUGH!

Edit:
And obviously racism on the job at all or related to the job at all is grounds for firing.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

It's an outright lie to say black people don't have human rights and are randomly killed often.

Don't take a page from the Trump playbook like that. Ignoring the complexities of the situation helps no one.

Edit:
This is in response to the stupid captioned picture above.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

I'm neutral here, though I worry things are getting taken too far. Stereotypes are not inherently racist, and the character herself was inoffensive in present day.

If not for the slavery origins, I would strongly oppose them getting rid of her. Because of the slavery origins, I at least understand. If it was merely due to stereotypes though and trying to erase a character due to that, I would strongly oppose it. That's not the case, though.

I will vehemently oppose people calling brands "racist" or stereotypes "racist" without context. It's a disgusting overuse of a word that should be used for real racism.

If you take it to an extreme all branding would be plain practically, no more knights and such either, unless we're going to pick and choose which stereotypes are offensive regardless of intent.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

Of course it does, but it's also overused as an attack.

Repeatedly people attack me with racist comments assuming I'm white, and it doesn't matter whether or not they are correct.

The latest is people being all doom and gloom, ignoring actual real studies and statistics, and talking as if it's worse today than in the 1960s, which is laughably ignorant to suggest. Anyone that informs such extremists that yes, things still need to improve, but the fact is they have been improving over the decades is told to "check their privilege," which is a point blank racist attack.

People exaggerating the extent to which racism affects things are hurting the cause. You'd think no people of color could get a job and police gun down innocents on the street every day, rather than the reality where racism is still a real problem but not for most hiring incidents, and most of the people shot are people resisting arrest, many of them actually having committed crimes. Excessive use of force is not okay, but nor is slapping the "it's because of racism" label on everything without proof and without context, or demonizing police and acting as if isolated incidents happen by the thousands every day.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

WhiskeyDisk posted...

I was off on a few specifics, but the Crux of the absurdity remains the same.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nascar-auto-racing/thatsracin/article217540295.html

And this was back in 2018.

Yeah losing one sponsor while still dumb isn't nearly the same.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

Mead posted...

fair assumption more often than not

I will concede when I looked the tag up it was really disgusting. Whenever I've said it I've made sure to include black lives matter at the same time for that reason.

It is extremely irritating how this whole thing is "with us or against us" nonsense. I stand by the all lives matter statement and I stand by defending the vast majority of police as public servants who do not deserve to be treated like dirt, but I don't want to allow raging bigots to take ownership of a phrase that is perfectly reasonable like "all lives matter."

It is absolutely nonsensically insane to cry racism when a guy resists arrest, steals a taser, and ends up getting shot in return.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

ZBug_ posted...

This.

That's assuming anyone saying "all lives matter" is a far-right conservative.

It's possible to support the general message of Black Lives Matter while still criticizing the name, and still having concerns over the movement promoting outright criminals to martyrdom.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

I think things like rioting over an outright criminal getting shot after resisting arrest and stealing a weapon hurts the movement more than any name could.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

Jesus. I want the time back I wasted reading this crazy post. Anarchy is your defense? Lol okay. Do research on the defunding movement that isnt a Twitter post or election propaganda.

The latest is a man that resisted arrest and grabbed a taser that is being martyred when police fought back. How exactly was he "unarmed" when he stole the taser?? It's insanity to deify criminals like that. Then they burned the restaurant down. Makes total sense. (Sarcasm, obviously.)

Also, I hope it was a crazy post. Time will tell.
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Loving freedom and opposing hateful malice means speaking out against cancel culture. Criticize all forms of bigotry, but don't enable the malicious hate mob.

I'm noticing a new chilling trend: Articles calling out companies for staying out of it and equating it with supporting white supremacists. One article I read was even so obnoxious as to say donating $100,000 is worse than saying nothing.

This is the very worst of outrage culture. Don't get me wrong, what happened was a tragedy. Turning this into some ridiculous "You better be outspoken about this, or else we'll cancel you!" crusade is just plain chilling though.

You know what this reminds me of? People who left Saudi Arabia, describing life there as living a life of terror always worrying you don't appear pious enough, lest you be destroyed for lack of faith in Islam. It reminds me of how one time I used Google Translate on YouTube comments and like 40% of all the words were people raving about praising Allah. This is not a bashing of all Muslims; but of the culture of terror in theocracies like Saudi Arabia, or de facto theocracies with cultures that viciously punish non-conformity.

A good cause should not be turned into a weapon such that people should always be afraid of not speaking up loudly enough in exactly the "correct" way. It's, like I said, chilling.

I hope I'm wrong. If that was an insane rant that would be nice.

Mead posted...

mobs demand all sorts of stuff

stop reacting to the most ridiculous things

Ignore ridiculous things at your own peril.

We have a president who has pledged to "open up the libel laws" to silence dissent, who openly lies practically every single day, who labels the free press the "enemy of the people" and for years has contemplated taking away the licenses of media that disagrees with him, attacks a news source biased entirely in his favor when they so much as question him, and directs people to an untrustworthy news source that serves only as a would-be state propaganda machine for him once he solidifies himself as de facto dictator.

We now have a small handful of Republicans that openly stand up to him, and Republican attacks in multiple states to rig voting districts to ensure perpetual power with minority vote percentages and to remove power from any popular vote position they lose.

The USA is now an authoriatarian Republican state in its infancy, with voices like Mitt Romney and the late John McCain becoming more and more rare, and with people afraid of crossing the president (and if they are afraid now, imagine after he's completely replaced the court and justice systems with his sycophants).

People laughed at Trump when he said he could kill someone in broad daylight and retain his supporters. People are not laughing now. In fact prominent Republicans of years past are calling him a threat to the country. And the bulk of the party stays silent as he perpetuates his assault on this country's checks and balances, with a very real possibility he will not peacefully exit office if he loses the election coming up.

So no, I will not ignore stupidity that catches on. These anarchists might largely be liberal as opposed to the far-right president, but the price of freedom is eternal vigilance and nonsense like this must not be silently ignored.

One need only read his Twitter to know how dangerous he is. His own appointees, and his own attorney of a decade say how dangerous he is. Yet few in his party stand up to him anymore. If he wins again, it's possible there will be no more chances to undo the authoritarian regime he continues to create.

So delusional even though he won he's so narcissistic he can't stand he lost the popular vote and makes bogus voter fraud accusations that his own administration could not prove.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/918267396493922304

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/832708293516632065

Why do I say this all about our would-be dictator of a president? Because when he started out with his nonsense, people laughed at him and ignored him too. People need to stand up for the police and oppose the anarchists calling to abolish them to nip their nonsense in the bud, because even if Trump is defeated that doesn't mean the anarchists won't cause chaos a few years down the line.

Revelation34 posted...

Of course they're not right. They're idiots that just created a haven for crime.

As someone that mostly agrees with you, time shall tell. It's a bit early to make a call on that and it may just end up being a restructuring. The cop-hating social media mob? Yeah, they are idiots. What people do trying to placate them is another matter.

chaosbowser posted...

I don't think you really understand that defunding doesn't necessarily mean completely tearing them down. Although that is what Minneapolis did and that's something the city itself decided. I have no idea if they're right in taking such an aggressive approach but their goal isn't to have no law enforcement but for it to be remade from the ground up. That is for them to wade through as they've already committed to it. Defunding in most states is reducing their funding and redirecting it to social programs. Which is entirely fair. I did an edit to the previous post discussing how police spend a lot of time enforcing laws that have questionable benefits for our society. The idea the need less funding makes sense to me.

I'm talking about the mob demands more than that. "Abolish the police" is a common thing mixed in.

Yes, a small handful of police make horrific mistakes so let's tear down everything. That's anarchy to me. And I stand by the stance it's hypocritcal for people to not stand up against the absolutely vile dehumanizing bullying against all police.

What happened to George Floyd was horrific, but some people act as if outright thieves robbing people at gunpoint getting shot and killed is a terrible crime too. It's insane.

Revelation34 posted...

You said it was a fact therefore the burden of proof is on you to prove it.

My wording was poor, but the burden on proof is on the accusers. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? You sound exactly like a racist.

By sheer virtue of the statistics, it's a tiny minority of officers, and that's even if you include the ones that were justified in using deadly force (which is most of them concerning armed people).

Edit:
And to be clear I support the peaceful protests for the murder of an unarmed man.

I do not support the dehumanization and demonization of police officers, nor the anarchist takeover of the narrative with the ridiculous defund the police insanity.

I'm a liberal and think this cancel culture is cancer.

FYI conservatives pulled this last century it's just easier now. It's why Nintendo and such aggressively removed religious references in games back then. It's dumb no matter who does it.

Revelation34 posted...

Citation needed.

Oh give me a break, are people that far gone?

I'm not the one going around social media acting as if police officers, who risk their lives in the service of their communities, are subhuman.

I just don't understand how obvious it is that anarchists are hijacking the movement and people are eating it up without question, it seems like. If you read social media posts it's just disgustingly dehumanizing to police, and the fact is most police are not brutal corrupt monsters. I never would have dreamed that something as dumb as "defund the police" would catch on.

Revelation34 posted...

Which still has nothing to do with what was mentioned.

Something "going full SJW" usually means "Changed a character's race or gender, has non-straight characters, or acknowledges transmen or transwomen exist." Sometimes a female character having a prominent role alone gets the label, as I saw someone flip out over Star Trek: Picard before it came out because they assumed a woman being the focus of trailers meant she must be there to make men look bad.

If none of that was implied, I concede it's my mistake.

Revelation34 posted...

You're the only one who brought up race.

I didn't. I brought up minorities, which race is a subset of.

I always forget how topics like this get overrun by the "I'm not a bigot, but minorities existing is going full SJW!!!!11" brigade. How long until showing authoritarian governments in a bad light is "SJW?"

DrPrimemaster posted...

It seems like when they fired him they had always intended on hiring him back, they didn't even look for someone else to direct Guardians of the Galaxy 3.

If I recall at least one of the top picks for a new director said they wouldn't do it. They committed to sticking with his story since they had a cast revolt on thier hands if they didn't.

VeeVees posted...

You just kill people for being black. That's quite different.

...except that's a gross simplification and the vast amount that die are armed.

There is a disproportionate amount of black people that die (both armed and unarmed), but it is not killing people "just for being black." It's far more complicated than that. It's a problem, but not on that level.

I really don't like the social media taking things over trend.

Social media accounts don't have easily organized guides and such, nor does Discord and a Discord server can easily poof.

It's the worst for art galleries with people "moving" to Twitter. Moving from sites with fully-featured gallery functions to Twitter and other similar platforms (that in addition to lacking a good gallery feature also run high-quality images through a .JPG meat grinder) is mindbogglingly awful.

Seriously though, it's not BLM overall (not yet as far as I'm aware at least) but if these bizarre "defund the police" people get their way and armed racist militias and criminal gangs fill the void it will be insane.

Dress codes are remarkably stupid, and polos are the closest thing to t-shirts allowed. It's that simple for me, for work.

JOExHIGASHI posted...

So why did you say ALM supported checks and balances and training for police to reduce incidents?

I didn't. I said it doesn't mean going into the streets protesting under a named banner.

Like I said it's too late now. I just think by focusing solely on race, and now by catering to anarchist nonsense about defunding police and legitimizing the dehumanization of police as if they are all raving racists, it harms the movement.

In fact, this anarchist "eliminate the police" nonsense may get Trump re-elected, which is disgusting. Anarchists hijacking the movement should have people disgusted.

What stinks is the far right nut jobs focusing on their Antifa conspiracy nonsense also deflect blame away from the anarchists, who clearly are being alarmingly successful.

See that's the problem I have about it: Focusing as if by default it must be a racial issue.

Take this quote I found:

About 17% of the black people who died as a result of police harm were unarmed, a larger share than any other racial group and about 1.3 times more than the average of 13%.

1.3 times more for unarmed deaths doesn't suggest overwhelmingly racist policy.

I also strongly object to the notion that saying stuff like that suggests racism isn't a problem. Of course it is, and of course it's real, but it's not some huge systematic institutionalized thing like the people demonizing police would have you think.

Edit:
I don't think the name can or should change now. It's just profoundly unfortunate it was chosen since it undermines the message.

JOExHIGASHI posted...

"Them" refers to ALM. I only hear about them counter protesting BLM. When have ALM supported checks and balances and training for police to reduce incidents?

ALM, as far as I'm aware, isn't even a group of people. Your statement doesn't make much sense.

It's like saying "Why doesn't Do unto others as you would have them do unto you do this or that?"

TigerTycoon posted...

The version I read of in another topic that people seemed to be happy with was "Black Lives Also Matter".

This would also have the benefit of being abbreviated to BLAM which sounds cool.

The problem there is it makes it sound as if the default is that they don't. As much as I hate "Black Lives Matter" as a name, I think BLAM is worse.

I think "stop police brutality" or something along those lines would have been far better.

It's extremely dumb to do this over old stuff like that.

It's like with James Gunn, though he has enough fans Disney changed course eventually.

JOExHIGASHI posted...

When has ALM done that? I only hear about them trying to shutdown BLM

Who is "them?" Saying "all lives matter" is not hostile, and it's insane that anyone would take it that way. Some of the people saying it are obviously far right racists, but there is nothing wrong with the phrase.

JOExHIGASHI posted...

When has ALM ever protested police brutality whether the victim was black or another race?

Supporting checks and balances and training for police to reduce incidents doesn't mean going out into the streets protesting.

I support the rights of the BLM movement to protest, but I also think it is grossly out of proportion to the reality of the situation for the segment of the movement that's been roped in by anarchists to defund police, demonize all police when most are decent people trying to protect their communities, or even abolish the police (yes let's give drug lords and angry militias control, that makes perfect sense...).

It also irritates me that the figures include those that died that were violent criminals, even armed, as if police shouldn't defend themselves or respond with force to those who are armed and dangerous. The tragedy in those cases is not that the police did anything wrong, but that their lives spiraled out of control into a life of violent crime.

Cruddy_horse posted...

Remember when Tony Tigers twitter had a meltdown because furries were flirting with him?

It was one person that made a joke post IIRC, and regretted it, and then a few more followed and then whoever controls the account went on a weird furry blocking spree.

And then this happened:
https://i0.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/chester-the-cheetos-tiger-has-welcomed-furries-blocked-by-tony.png

Modern times are interesting.

Associative guilt is backwards. No one should accept this. Firing someone over something their spouse said is backwards beyond belief.

Zeus posted...

While I know couples are a package deal, that's pretty fucking stupid.

I mean look at Kellyanne Conway. Her husband is the polar opposite of her politically and vocally condemns the administration she works for.

Threatening murder is not free speech. This is a pretty simple call.

Chip the Wolf and I had no idea he's so recent. He's just memorable I guess.

It's an annoying meme. Even more so since half or more of the people called "boomers" in the meme are actually millennials.

In 2021, some millennials will turn 40.

faramir77 posted...

I will bet $1000 to anyone that if BLM changed their name to ALM, the people whining about the name BLM would STILL not approve of the cause.

You'd be wrong.

Some of the ALM people would whine yes, but I REFUSE to accept "All lives matter!" as offensive. The idea that ALM is somehow unacceptable is completely ridiculous, especially since while the statistics are horribly scewed this isn't the kind of thing that only happens one way. And it's true, you don't see a huge uproar when it's someone who isn't black this happens to, not on this level.

The problem I have with the name BLM is that it assumes racism even in cases where there is none. Yes, it's a huge problem. No, it's not some huge institutionalized problem like it actually was in decades past.

That brings me to the Blue Lives Matter thing. I will not accept or endorse the demonization of all police officers. MOST police offers are good people serving their communities. The racists and corrupt cops are the rarity, and not the other way around. Bribes and such are far more rampant in some other countries too.

Then there's the stupidity of "defund the police." Yes, let's let gang overlords and racist militias step in and control the country. That's such a good idea. (Sarcasm of course)

Also, I have a major problem with the fact statistics ignore how many of the people that died were actually criminals. That matters a ton. Sometimes there will be an armed criminal that gets shot and the news will report it as a "police shooting." That's egregiously stupid to turn an armed criminal into a martyr. It's cases like George Floyd that are a real tragedy, and the tragedy of criminals that get shot/killed is that they went that way in their lives, not that the police shot when they refused to surrender.

That anarchists have so successfully taken over the narrative is tragic, and a disservice to George Floyd and others who it should be about. And the fact that people on social media disrespect ALL police, and treat them as subhuman, is backwards prejudice. Ironic considering that's what they are allegedly protesting.

Please note, I speak only of the anarchists screaming "defund the police" and the people that spread incessant memes and hate about all the police, and people who act like this is exclusively a black problem.

Basically, the name BLM is incredibly unfortunate. Changing it at this time isn't realistic. Challenging the demonization of saying all lives matter is somehow wrong is fine, in my opinion.

So if not marching in lock step with anarchists and people who promote prejudice against all police is "not approving the cause" then you'd be right, but that isn't what BLM is about even if shameful people have tried to hijack it.

SeabassDebeste posted...

one thing i like about the talking scenes is how the cast laughs at each other non-verbally a lot, especially rinoa

Oh nice point! That never occurred to me.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

get thicker skin.
kids used to be taught "sticks and stone may break my bones, but words can never hurt me".

now little snowflakes can't even handle being called an idiot, as evidenced by the insanly strict flaming rules here

One can counter that with "grow up." Behave like a stereotypical child hurling insults and harassing people; get moderated like one. It has nothing to do with getting thicker skin, and everything to do with the ones hurling insults and in general acting like terrible people getting judged based on who they are presenting themselves to be.

Most of the time conservatives whine about censorship they are being obnoxiously rude bullies and think they should be free from moderation because they have strong opinions. Then, after breaking the rules over and over, the rules get applied to them.

One of the most tragic things the far right has done is glamorizing bullying, name calling, and just in general nastiness. Being a decent person is too PC these days.

SmartMuffin posted...

by pandering to gays and drug users and illegal immigrants, mostly

its a stupid strategy, but its basically the only one they've had since 2008

Pandering to gays? You realize "the gays" and other minorities are people and not just annoying bugs you should be able to ignore and maliciously attack through policy right? I'm guessing no, but man it's chilling to see bigotry so plainly out there.

Yeah the golf thing is stupid. What are presidents supposed to sit and meditate in mourning 24/7? They are human.

I just don't understand how people on the right don't see how out of the ordinary Trump is. It's not normal to do what he does. It's not normal to blatantly fire people for personal loyalty, or in retaliation for actual oversight, etc. It's really dangerous. He has to go.

President Obama got bashed for occasionally being snarky once every few months. Meanwhile President Trump throws around names like a schoolyard bully and borderline threatens judges that don't rule how he wants. It's insane.

Black_Crusher posted...

Hahah!

Poor Wesley, he wasn't THAT bad. The S1 rainbow sweater had to go, though.
He's actually pretty good in both Final Mission and The First Duty (TNG)

I don't mind Wesley, but it's hilarious how much of a Creator Sue he is. Gene Roddenberry's middle name is Wesley, and his last appearance has him essentially ascending beyond humanity to become a demigod. I know Gene passed away before then, but it's fitting how Wesley ascended beyond humanity.

SirPikachu posted...

Well he does have a Muslim name and a Muslim grandmother. Just because he doesn't practice Islam doesn't make him not have Muslim heritage. Heritage wise, half of his family are Kenyan Muslims.

Islam is a religion not an ethnicity.

Decoy77 posted...

The dude has dementia. He isn't fit for the oval office. Whoever is his VP, if he would win(he won't), would be the new President within 6 months or less. And since he's promised a female running mate already (probably end up being Kilary or that joke of a Governor from Michigan) it will be a lame ass "first female president". But he won't win anyways in Nov. Unless some how they can get this rigged voting from home crap which the Dems are trying to get SOOOO bad because they know they stand no chance in a real legit vote.

Oh yeah and "#youaintblack" - Joe Biden

Don't you see you're being groomed to support him if he makes a move to dismantle political freedom? HIS OWN GOVERNMENT failed to find mass voting fraud. It's a lie, meant to delegitimize opposition.

Read his Twitter, if you can stomach it. Over the years he has REGULARLY talked about the need for "someone" to "do something" about the press, that it's the "enemy of the people."

Wake. Up.

I've found a particular pattern:
The far right tends to exclusively get its views on the opposition from their echo chambers, mostly not even news sources just angry radio hosts etc.

Me? I judge far-right bigotry and would-be authoritarianism based on what comes directly from people like President Trump. He's not exactly secret about his plans for the press. And Fox isn't even biased enough for him. The president of the United States and his sycophants are promoting the "One America News Network." They are grooming it to be their semi-official state-sponsored propaganda machine, once they flip the switch and start more overtly dismantling freedom.

Amuseum posted...

mixture of kanji and kana and latin is actually a huge advantage. lets you know the different contexts in condensed form. just like you wouldn't spell out big numbers. you wouldn't spell out exactly one hundred fifty three five hundred fifteen, when you can just write 153,515 in Arabic numbers.

you save space and time with kanji, and immediate understand as you scan the sentence or phrase. logographs can provide instant meaning and context. like japanese days of the week can be substituted using the chinese five elements.

There was an amazing conversation I saw, I forgot what it was about, in which two people that didn't know Japanese fully resolved something with their combined knowledge. One was someone who knew spoken Japanese but didn't know many Kanji. The other was a Chinese person who didn't know Hiragana/Katakana but did know what the Kanji meant due to similarity with Chinese.

It is pretty bad, but considering Hillary won by like three million votes but lost the electoral college, that mistake very well could have been her downfall.

I don't understand how some are blind to how Trump is clearly hostile to the idea of a free press and even political freedom. Freedom in this country is seriously in danger if Trump and his sycophants win. It's not even a matter of simple ideals. He's gearing up plans to dismantle free press, and it barely makes a footnote in current news because the outlandish stuff pours from his fingertips 24/7 and drowns out the enormity of the things he's outright stated he wishes to do. This man, like a mobster, suggested when "we were smart" his whistle blower should have been KILLED. How is that not the end of his presidency? It's sick.

What happens when people actually start following his cues and murdering people when he dog whistles like that? What happens when the Republicans continue to ignore it and people get too scared to speak up anymore or oppose him? This is a very real danger.

And yes, Biden being human can be bothersome and he does say stupid things sometimes. Hopefully nothing as dumb as Hillary's "deplorables" comment. Her comment was 100% spot on, people that questioned President Obama's citizenship just because he's black and his name while trying to pretend it wasn't racism, just sheer malicious nastiness pouring from their mouths in their disturbing echo chambers pretty much every day. Then there's the extremely scary number of Republicans that to this day are so divorced from reality they think he's Muslim, tagging yet another form of bigotry on. But all that said, and as true as it is, Hillary never should have said it.