Lurker > adjl

School closed on the 10th, then work closed on the 18th with an extra short day of work to clean the place and tie up loose ends on the 20th, and I've been off since. Mentally, I'm doing fine. Financially, we're going to run into problems if this lasts more than another month or so, but otherwise we're okay, and I'll hopefully be tapping into some of Canada's emergency fund once it becomes available to help alleviate that.

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Justin2Krelian posted...

It started out as The Coronavirus, but it seems to be changing more and more to Covid.

It took a while for it to actually be named, so official sources and media were just calling it things like "novel coronavirus" or "chinese coronavirus," which most people simplified to just "coronavirus." Since it's actually been named, though, the actual name is gradually taking over.

Unbridled9 posted...

Coronavirus, but I'm starting to favor the CCP virus.

The problem with that approach is that it only works once, and I can all but guarantee this will not be the last significant novel virus to come out of China and have its spread exacerbated by the CCP's actions. People want to point fingers and assign blame and all, but you don't need the name to do that. Might as well stick with something unambiguous for the name.

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AllstarSniper32 posted...

I think it'd be harder to find movies that don't have a soundtrack that fits them.

I thought this, but then people started saying LotR, so I think I'll go with that instead of accepting that I can't think of a truly stellar example. LotR's soundtrack did its job extremely well.

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Archgoat posted...

I will agree that you can't blame him for this mess entirely, but to say he has done everything right is absolutely ridiculous.

This is my point in fewer words. This is the correct opinion to have regarding Trump's handling of this pandemic.

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In Canada, not the US, but I'm fairly certain I had H1N1, though I never got actually confirmed. I had spent time around some people who did later get confirmed, and when I had the vaccine several months later, my reaction to it (mostly that my arm ached much more than it does for a normal flu shot) suggested that I already had immunity to it. I had one day of being so debilitated that I couldn't stand up for more than a few minutes, then I was fine except for a sore throat and a cough that persisted for a month which was weird at the time but made sense as being H1N1 in retrospect.

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DDirtyDastard posted...

Trump talks about grabbing women by the pussy. Biden actually does it.

This is why I have no trouble believing that Trump has assaulted women even without a specific case being proven in court: He's openly bragged about it. The law requires a specific case to be proven in order to convict him, but in terms of how guilty I believe he is, I'm fine with a vague, open-ended confession, even though that's legally inadequate.

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Demellic posted...

My point is that it isnt safe behavior to inject a literal neurotoxin into a human or animal.

And my point is that the "safe/unsafe" distinction is almost entirely dependent on dosage. You eat C. botulinum spores - the dormant form of a bacterium which produces the most toxic substance known to mankind - every time you eat honey, but do you end up dying of botulism? No, because the dose is too small to have an adverse effect. Well, at least in non-newborns, which is why you shouldn't give newborns honey.

Demellic posted...

How do you figure that, exactly? Our immune system actually has a lot to do with protecting our body from toxins.

Our immune system protects us from infections and foreign bodies. Toxins are processed and eliminated by the liver and kidneys, not the immune system. Exceptions exist, but they're usually more complex molecules that have some kind of identifiable antigen that the immune system can identify and attack, not simpler molecules or naked atoms like heavy metals.

Demellic posted...

Youre assuming that the mercury within vaccines is actually made safe, but in reality its not.

Which you're basing on...?

Demellic posted...

In addition to mercury, how would you explain the inclusion of formaldehyde, MSG, and aborted animal and human fetal cells into vaccines that are also being injected into humans out of curiosity?

Stabilizers and preservatives, mostly. These things do cost money, and there's no money to be made by throwing them in there if they don't provide some benefit. That'd just be silly.

Demellic posted...

Vaccines have a long history of debilitating and incapacitating people by giving them the very thing they were supposed to protect from.

Not really. Not under modern production standards, anyway (which is why modern production standards are what they are). Even the vaccines that do include live viruses use attenuated forms that are physically incapable of causing their respective diseases. You get plenty of people insisting that their flu shot gave them the flu, but that's always a matter of them confusing inflammatory side effects (which often include fevers and aches) or separate illnesses (the number of people that say they got "stomach flu" from their flu shot...) with actual influenza, because flu shots do not contain live viruses.

Demellic posted...

There have been a very great many vaccine damage lawsuits lost by pharmaceutical companies, forcing them to admit they did damage the victim.

Oh, sure. Any medical procedure has potential side effects, and pharmaceutical companies don't always disclose all of them. That doesn't mean people are being given the vaccine's disease, though, nor does it mean that protection from the disease isn't worth the risk in the vast majority of cases.

Demellic posted...

Sounds like you avoided the original question of how unvaccinated people pose a health risk to vaccinated people. Can you explain that one?

No vaccine is 100% effective. Even somebody who's been vaccinated against something can still potentially get it if they're exposed to a large enough pathogen load, though usually a milder case (example: I had pertussis when I was 9 and didn't die or end up hospitalized by it because I was vaccinated). Having a larger proportion of the population vaccinated means you're much less likely to experience the higher pathogen load of being around an actual infected person, meaning you're less likely to end up with the infection.

Furthermore, because I'm not a piece of shit that only cares about myself, being vaccinated doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't be concerned about the people who can't be. Even if I were being vaccinated did mean I was perfectly immune to everything, I'd still be calling anti-vaxxers selfish, misinformed idiots for endangering those who can't be vaccinated for whatever reason (to say nothing of endangering their children). You ask how anti-vaxxers pose a health risk to vaccinated people? I don't really care about that (except as outlined above, but that's a fairly minor concern). I care about the risk they pose to unvaccinated people, which is very significant and not something anyone can argue. So let's flip that question around on you: Why don't anti-vaxxers care about the health risks they pose to unvaccinated people?

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I can believe it. We'll see how it pans out once everything's on the table. Kavanaugh's accuser was made more credible by the fact that his defense mostly seemed to amount to "I liked drinking beer in college," but it wouldn't surprise me if Biden doesn't really have a solid story either.

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Veedrock- posted...

not even Super Mario Galaxy 2 which is one of the highest rated games of all time.

Both Galaxies hold that title, actually, or at least they did when they came out. Odyssey is also up there.

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RCtheWSBC posted...

You should play Doom 2016 anyway. Goes on sale for $5 these days, and really fun

Xfma100 posted...

Doom 2016 is so cheap that you may as well buy it anyways.

This is my understanding, despite not having actually played either yet. They're both good, so you might as well start with the cheaper one so that Eternal is cheaper when you decide you're in the mood for more Doom.

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DPsx7 posted...

You should read closer then. Don't be a dunce. He isn't a scientist or doctor.

You don't need to be a scientist or doctor to know that the CDC didn't need to reinvent the wheel when the WHO had a test that had already been demonstrated to be functional.

You don't need to be a scientist or doctor to know that bidding wars for medical supplies are not an effective way to save lives.

You don't need to be a scientist or doctor to know that disbanding your pandemic response team puts you at risk of being very seriously hurt by a pandemic (which the doctors and scientists he's got advising him would have told him is always a possibility with how interconnected the world is these days).

You DO have to be a scientist or doctor to be able to say with any accuracy that COVID is no worse than the flu or that it'll drop to zero cases soon, meaning his insistence on doing so despite his lack of such qualifications (and flagrantly against the advice of those with such qualifications) was extremely reckless and irresponsible and even now is resulting in many Americans disregarding the distancing measures that are needed to keep the virus from devastating the country.

Every single one of those is a completely legitimate criticism of how Trump has handled the situation and an example of how he's made it worse than it needs to be. There's ample room to argue that any other president would have fallen similarly short (though probably not in exactly the same ways, since Trump's compulsive narcissism is fortunately relatively unique), since this is a very novel situation that no leaders really know how to handle properly, but you cannot say that Trump hasn't messed this up. That is objectively false, no matter how many times you want to say "I'm right and you're wrong this totally constitutes a rational argument."

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FatalAccident posted...

P sure each year the winner is something like Zelda, Mario, Zelda, Mario, Metroid.

When did Metroid win one of these? There have been a grand total of two Metroid games released in the past decade, one of which was a remake and the other of which barely qualifies as Metroid (Federation Force), neither of which excited people enough for them to win a GotY contest.

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Demellic posted...

although I would hardly call a neurotoxin like mercury or aluminum safe to inject into humans or animals

Everything has a safe dosage, just like everything has a lethal dosage. Without exception, toxicity is dose-dependent.

Demellic posted...

especially into a newborn with an undeveloped immune system.

Immune systems have absolutely nothing to do with heavy metal poisoning.

Demellic posted...

Mercury is that stuff in thermometers,

And chlorine is the stuff they sprayed on battlefields in WWI to blind and kill soldiers, which warranted full-face respirators to keep them safe from its brutally toxic effects. And yet there's some in the table salt we eat every day and that's perfectly fine (and, in fact, necessary for normal bodily function).

Combining an element into a molecule or compound changes its properties, often very dramatically. Toxicity is one of those properties. Chlorine gas is extremely toxic, but chloride ions are quite harmless (again, in sub-toxic doses, but the lethal dosage for chloride is far, far higher than that for chlorine gas). Elemental mercury is neurotoxic, but incorporate it into other compounds and that toxicity changes (mostly based on how readily the mercury ions can dissociate from the parent compound under physiological conditions). This is simply how chemistry works.

Demellic posted...

The vaccine would most likely contain COVID-19 like other vaccines contain strains of live virus,

Live virus vaccines are pretty rare. The worst you're likely to see are ones with dead viruses in them, but more commonly you'll just get a soup of the virus' surface antigens with no intact viral particles in it.

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DPsx7 posted...

He's one guy, what or how much do you expect him to do?

... He just listed four things Trump has either done or not done that he shouldn't/should have done, all of which are well within not only his capabilities, but his responsibilities as president. You literally quoted him listing things Trump could and should have done differently then immediately asked how much he expects Trump to do. This is why nobody takes you seriously.

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Of the seven games listed there, three are remakes (FFVII, RE3, Trials of Mana), one seems like a pretty niche series that rarely leaves Japan (Disaster Report), one is a strategy spinoff of a shooter series whose popularity is waning (Gears), one has seen a pretty lukewarm response to the trial that's already out (Predator), and one is an indie game that's come out with little fanfare (Delivery Service, which is apparently free on Epic right now). When the remake in question is of one of the most beloved games of all time and has been in development for the better part of the last decade, it's pretty understandable that it's going to beat out the rest of that list. It's really the only high-profile release on there outside of RE3 (which is also a remake).

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Reasonably well. Money's potentially going to be an issue, since I've been temporarily laid off, but the bakery I work at has seen tremendous success with the limited deliveries they've been offering since closing two weeks ago, plus we'd just had a couple of very busy weeks (one of which was the second-busiest they'd ever had, after the week before this past Christmas), so they'll likely survive the closure and I'll still have a job to go back to. My landlord also offered to defer our rent for this month until the end of our lease, which is a nice bit of relief, so I think we'll be alright.

As far as the disease itself goes, my mom's in her 60's and is a doctor, which is a bit concerning, but my home province has been doing a pretty good job of flattening the curve and is sitting at just 147 cases (out of ~1 million people), so she should be alright even if she does get it. Everyone else in my family is in good enough health that it shouldn't be an issue, though here in Ontario the case numbers are growing pretty rapidly and I may have trouble getting care if I end up needing it. Here's hoping that doesn't happen.

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DrYuya posted...

I mean yeah, they're all SAYING that. but if/when it gets real and its more like actual martial law quarantines...police aren't going to have time to decide who's out for what reason. In fact, many dont know already nor do they really no how much to enforce since this is new ground in America.

So gradually, and maybe even now... those supposed runs that were okay may not be so okay anymore

Eventually, yeah, it may get to the point where being outside at all is no longer considered okay. For now, though, a half-hour walk around your neighbourhood isn't likely to be problematic, so enjoy some fresh air while the option's still available.

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captpackrat posted...

An iron lung is a totally different kind of machine than a ventilator. The body is encased in a large chamber with the head sticking out. The pressure is lowered in the chamber, which causes the lungs to expand. By repeatedly increasing then decreasing the pressure, the patient is made to breathe.

That's also an option. Just duct tape yourself into one of those big vacuum storage bags with a couple hula hoops around you and stick the vacuum cleaner nozzle onto its valve in time with your desired breathing rate. It's basically the same thing.

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If you're feeling fancy, you could make a bacon jam.

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I can never decide if the Trudeau-hating circlejerk between xjay and zeb is entertaining or concerning. On the one hand, it's kind of funny how reliably it happens. On the other, it's a little disturbing that actual humans fall into thought processes like that so easily.

DPsx7 posted...

I've never been wrong though.

This is the only day of the year that you can make that claim with a straight face.

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Chrono_Trigger posted...

nah, chrono trigger sucks. anything would have beat it.

Eh, I'd put CT ahead of Undertale. Not by a huge margin, since CT is also very overrated, but I'd say it was the better game.

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I mean, Trump asking states not to release unemployment numbers is an example of censoring the US' position in the crisis, so it's obviously happening to some extent. The US doesn't have nearly the level of information control that China has, though, so it's pretty safe to say that their published numbers are more credible than China's, even if they can't be trusted 100%. Honestly, no number is ever going to be 100% accurate due to the difficult-to-track nature of the pandemic and how rapidly the situation is evolving, so not being able to trust numbers 100% is nothing new.

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Because Odyssey is an absolute masterpiece of a game. It's going to beat most things, and that's quite reasonable.

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aurick79 posted...

Having played both, Undertale is vastly overrated.

It is, though it's still a delightful game. Kind of like Frozen: It's a good time, but nothing made by mortal hands is ever going to actually live up to the hype it gets. I think I actually did vote for Undertale over Octopath, but they were pretty close (that I voted less than ten minutes ago and already forget which one I picked says a lot about how meaningful this preference is to me).

Black_Crusher posted...

How is anything beating Dragon's Dogma? That game is friggin' awesome as hell.

Because Shovel Knight is also really awesome, plus I never see DD getting all that much recognition. I'm not sure it ever really amassed enough of an audience to do well in something like this.

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rjsilverthorn posted...

I would assume it requires fairly precise control over how much air you are pushing into someone's lungs.

Eh, as long as you limit the bellows to blowing ~1L of air (average tidal volume for a healthy adult is half that, but there's quite a bit of extra inflation room beyond that), you're probably fine. Heck, if you make the person pump it themselves to save on manpower costs, you don't even need that, since they can just stop blowing when they feel full enough. It's fiiiiiiine*.

*Disclaimer: it's not actually fine please never do this and if you do I'm not responsible for what happens

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ChaosAzeroth posted...

Also just realized another issue with what they said though... What is wrong with never having had chicken pox? Oh no medical science has prevented unnecessary illness. How awful apparently.

But it makes their immune systems weaker! Never mind that that is literally the exact opposite of how vaccines work! It just does!

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

You are insufferable.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

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BlackScythe0 posted...

Realistically speaking, this doesn't change anything. Companies will still comply because if Trump can so easily remove them the next person can easily put them back, not to mention massive markets like California demanding such standards.

Yeah, state-level regulations should keep this from having too much impact, and if a democrat wins the election, you can guarantee those rules will be back in place within the hour. If Trump gets re-elected, it might become more of an issue because the rules likely won't be reinstated, but state regulations will still pressure the market into some degree of compliance.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

No, we call them respirators too.

You call "English" "respirators"?

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OhhhJa posted...

If china is lying about it being totally contained, (they are) this is a major concern.

But is it a major concern for how the rest of the world approaches the virus? Nobody's going to be reopening their borders until well after the vast majority of their domestic cases are resolved, so it's not like we have to worry about people bringing new cases from China. Nobody has the time or resources to worry about anyone but their own victims, so it's not like we're missing out on a feasible opportunity to help out innocent Chinese victims (as nice as it might be to do so). Enough other countries have had significant numbers of cases that public health strategies can be developed based on those numbers instead of trying to emulate what China has done (which, regardless of the veracity of their numbers, wouldn't have really have been an option anyway for countries that value human rights), so there's no concern about being misled there.

At this point, COVID in China is old news. Yes, them (presumably) lying about their numbers is a problem that should be addressed in the future, but in terms of how we handle the virus right now (which is much higher priority than any punitive action), it would be hard pressed to be any less relevant. They don't matter. Yet.

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rjsilverthorn posted...

You are talking about a device that is essentially inflating and deflating your lungs directly...I'd rather leave that to professionals.

The tricky part isn't the mechanics of it, it's regulating the composition of air you're delivering and also making sure that air remains as clean as possible. Hypothetically, you could just plug a set of bellows into a breathing tube, shove that down your throat, and use that as a ventilator, but you'd risk mold growth and dust accumulation in the air you're pumping in there, and you'd be limited to the 20-22% oxygen found in regular air. Shove a filter in the intake and run the breathing tube through a strong UV light, and maybe you'd be getting somewhere.

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DPsx7 posted...

Not trolling when I'm right.

The point is that you're not right, and are speaking as though you have any degree of medical or epidemiological knowledge when you very clearly do not.

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The projections assume the continuation of strong social distancing measures and other protective measures.

So they don't actually apply to most of the country. Sweet.

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EvilMegas posted...

Both of those things. If it's more deadly than China is letting on, we need to know.

It doesn't really matter what the exact mortality rate is. We know for certain that it's high enough that we need to keep it in check, which is a challenge because of how rapidly we're able to see it spreading in the dozens of countries with detailed, reliable data. Is there potential to hold China accountable for deaths that have resulted from underestimating this thing? Absolutely. But that's not going to happen for a long while yet, and it certainly won't happen if people keep underestimating it despite the information that's now readily available (since China can't be blamed for that).

Philip027 posted...

Yeah, how dare people talk about the comparison of US's numbers vs China's numbers (and the legitimacy of China's numbers) in a topic titled "US death toll surpasses China's"

Yes, it is indeed wrong to focus on pointless trivia over useful information in discussing something with significant real-world impact. It will never matter whether the US' numbers are greater than or less than China's, real or imagined. The only thing rankings like that can tell us is who to emulate moving forward, and nobody is ever going to consider China to be a legitimate candidate there. Raw numbers are also pretty useless, given that populations and population densities vary so much. The trajectory of case numbers is more valuable, since that indicates who's managing to slow things down and who isn't.

Quite simply, saying the US death toll has surpassed China's just contextualizes the number that's being presented to give it a rough sense of scale. It's not a comparison that has any useful semantic value, meaning dithering over the comparison's accuracy is foolish.

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OhhhJa posted...

Well the topic is literally about the deaths in the US surpassing China so I think it's a perfectly normal response to question China's obviously false data

The topic is about US deaths surpassing China's reported numbers. Which of the following do you think is the more important point to focus on within that topic?

-The extremely high possibility that China's deaths are much higher than reported and that US deaths therefore have not yet surpassed them
-The fact that US deaths are getting quite high, which should be prompting greater public concern and caution instead of the growing apathy, frustration, and outright defiance coming from many

I'll give you a hint: It's the one that involves actually saving lives instead of waving nationalistic e-peens.

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wwinterj25 posted...

It's funny you say that because the police over here are telling folk to go back home when they go to the peaks. All the peaks are is fresh air, countryside and nobody around. Still yeah you're fine for a walk. Mental health is important too maybe even more so for some people.

I'm guessing they're trying to keep people away from popular outdoor destinations. My home province has closed all provincial parks and most walking trails and beaches for that reason, since they don't want too many people flocking to them as the most interesting way to get their fresh air. If you try to get your fresh air in lower-traffic areas, you should be alright.

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Hey look, 5/8 posts since mine have focused on the "China's numbers are fake" angle and not the "oh dear US' numbers are getting really bad" one. I am so very surprised.

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That was definitely Shenti, and it was a lot later than late 00's. I only started hanging around here in 2010, and I'd been here for a few years when it happened.

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I'm not essential and don't have to work, but I would say that any public-facing essential services should really be getting hazard pay. At the very least, grocery stores being essential very nicely spits in the face of the "we don't need you therefore you don't deserve a livable minimum wage" argument that people seem to like raising against their employees.

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wolfy42 posted...

While I am going a bit stir crazy here, that isn't the worst part. Looking down another month stuck in a basement with no window, no fresh air, and no company at all......that is bad.

You can go outside, if you want. It's a really good idea to, actually, because fresh air and sun are good for you. Just avoid other people and don't go anywhere crowded.

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China's numbers are probably not legitimate, but the fact that the US' numbers are as high as they are should nonetheless be cause for alarm. Downplaying the US' current crisis by saying that China's faking their numbers doesn't help anyone.

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Revelation34 posted...

"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

If you want to take that approach, then jailing anyone ever is a violation of the first amendment because it prohibits them from freely exercising their free speech. That would obviously be stupid, so you probably shouldn't want to take that approach.

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DPsx7 posted...

The risk as I've decided for no particular reason or with any appreciable understanding of the situation is mild.

FTFY

GameLord113 posted...

As more and more people lose their jobs, Ive been seeing a some individuals wanting this whole thing to end even if it risks their life or the lives of loved ones.

The thing with those people is that they don't understand just how significant that risk is. The way this thing spreads, if we give up on containing it (that is, continue gathering in large crowds, stop bothering to sanitize stuff, go back to rarely washing hands), there'll be millions of cases within a month or two. That's just how exponential growth works. Most of those won't require hospitalization, but for those that do, there won't be hospitals available for them and they will almost certainly die. Many will say "we'll just worry about containing it then," but it's infinitely easier to control the spread with a seed of a few thousand cases than with a seed of several million. Once it hits that kind of casualty rate, you're not stopping it without full-on militarized lockdown, which people are going to resist and fight back against because they're idiots.

It's very tempting to just give up and see where it goes, because this whole quarantine thing is really annoying and feels futile (bear in mind that the current spread rates are a consequence of what was happening 2-3 weeks ago, so whatever people are doing right now won't bear fruit for another 2-3 weeks), but where it's going to go is going to completely overwhelm the country's health care capabilities and result in vastly more deaths. That's not a risk anyone should want to take.

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DrYuya posted...

I've already done my part anyway...been a shut in for weeks now.

That's not how it works at all. It's an ongoing process that will be more effective the more people do it. Stop doing it too soon, though, and you're erasing whatever help your efforts so far might have been. It's not a matter of everyone contributing some number of "quarantine points" for every day that they stay in and trying to reach an arbitrary total. Doing your part means keeping the population density as low as you can for as long as this virus remains a problem.

DrYuya posted...

I need to focus on less on flattening this stupid curve everyone is so big on and focus more on flattening the curve of # of times I've had to watch Frozen 2 locked in with my daughter

Maybe don't let her watch it so many times, then? You can do other things than watch the first movie she asks to watch, you know. You don't even have to be completely locked in. There's nothing wrong with going outside, provided you avoid crowds and keep your distance from everyone else.

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DPsx7 posted...

Don't forget the recovery rate is like 80-90%. The wildcards are the jerkasses having parties out of spite.

I'm not sure why you seem to think idiots having parties have a lower recovery rate. You've said this sort of thing a lot, as though you believe that the virus will somehow figure out that they deserve to suffer for their recklessness and become more deadly. Realistically, where most of them are pretty young, they're actually going to be more likely to survive infection unscathed than the rest of the population will.

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I feel like you should be able to find something to don't hate to play, rather than subjecting yourself to playing a game you hate. Granted, you hate pretty much everything, so maybe not. Perhaps you should start by fixing that before hunting for new entertainment?

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DPsx7 posted...

I guess it's better to skip over the fact the states with the most cases weren't won by him,

If you're discussing which states are the fastest growing, yes. Absolute numbers don't really matter in looking at that statistic. This measure is useful for indicating which areas are going to become problems if nothing is done to slow that growth down, and the clear political bias in the statistics suggests that some of those problems are going to be political/cultural in nature (namely, their God Emperor told them it was a hoax so they're adamantly refusing to do anything to stop it).

OhhhJa posted...

All this really shows me is that trump won most of the states

Not 90% of them. There's zero reason whatsoever to interpret this statistic that way.

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School will be done, so fewer classes and more work hours. That's about it, though.

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This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm2x6CVIXiE

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This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts.

And get along with each other

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This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts.