Lurker > changmas

Leanansidhe posted...

I feel like that's something only a independent survivor scum Puns would say, and I know him very well. This isn't just his personality, it's definitely how he acts as independent survivor scum

this is a very compelling point. I havent played in an independent survivor game before so I dont have any familiarity with how puns normally acts in one. But since youve confirmed it for me, this makes a lot of sense.

##Unvote
##Vote: Puns

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I'm just really surprised by this stance of Corrik's that he himself deserves to be killed by the police. Out of nowhere really, but can't fault him for staying true to his own personal convictions and not being a complete hypocrite.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

kings edit: someone already put that

pirates

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

id never make anyone sign an IOU but Id also never lend anyone more than like...$100 or $200. My rule of thumb is that if i lend someone money I shouldnt always expect to get it back, so Ill never lend more than I would be uncomfortable losing forever

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

FIFA soccer

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

##Vote: IGCD

we must punish all rulebreakers and keep this a lawful and orderly place

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

I'm siding with Bolt on this, actually. The opening post clarifies specifically that scum roles are formatted "INDEPENDENT SURVIVOR SCUM ____". Key word being independent. I don't know why there was only one kill last night, but if every role is labeled INDEPENDENT, I have to assume that even scum players are working independently from one another.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Merry Changmas

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Kingdom Hearts

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

ok but really what the hell IGCD is really out here limit testing mafia

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

red13n posted...

Nah, you end up radicalizing people like Wang with certain wedge issues.

You have to think of it from the point that the end goal is to influence the younger generation. If they see racism as something you aren't supposed to have in society, eventually society will change to reflect that value. But if young people grow up around open racism it becomes harder to actually purge from society.

I disagree. I think what's most important is to maximize anti-racism (as opposed to non-racism). All that hiding away racism behind the masks of civility does is allows most people to hand-wave it away (e.g. "I'm not racist, so I'm not part of a problem"). But in this mask-off society, I think the younger generation is more anti-racist than it ever has been. And that's a direct consequence of having to interact and challenge racist beliefs on a daily or weekly basis.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Inviso posted...

I guess I'm just worried that we're normalizing "mask-off" racism to the point where half the country doesn't even care about it anymore, and views it as innocuous as "mask-on" racism. How are we ever supposed to address underlying, systemic racism when more and more people are digging their heels into the dirt and denying open racism even exists?

Half the country doesn't care about any kind of racism. And then another 30% or so only cares about mask-off racism, in my opinion. When you get that 30% on board, you've got the potential for real change. And it's why people like Amy Cooper or Riot Games exec Ron Johnson actually lose their jobs over these racist incidents.

When all racism is mask-on....racism just doesn't get addressed at all, except by a "radical" few who are drowned out. All the present day mask-off racists would just be mask-on racists, but they would hold even more positions of power than they do now because none of them got fired for being openly racist.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Leafeon13N posted...

The problem with the open racism world we live in now is they are essentially able to run recruitment campaigns full of misinformation and click bait style draw in.

Now this I can agree with. But it's hard for me to believe that the people who are susceptible to these recruitment campaigns wouldn't still be racist in a "racism mask-on / civility" kind of society. I personally think the biggest difference is that there's way, way more outrage about racism in the "mask-off" version, and outrage is often necessary to effect change.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Inviso posted...

Knowing who the open racists are doesn't mean a damn thing when they're able to operate with the same impunity as closeted racists.

But that's a different problem entirely.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Not just police & law enforcement either. Housing, public health, medical fields, etc. all have these racial disparities that go completely unchecked and unnoticed by the broader society.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Inviso posted...

That reminds me of something I wanted to say regarding a late post in the last topic.

There is nothing wrong with wanting "civility" and preferring a more concealed racist like Richard Spencer to the blatant and vocal racism of Donald Trump. With Spencer, the very fact that he feels the need to hide his true feelings behind a mask of civility and "proper" presentation is a win for decent human beings everywhere. It's an admission that his views are unpalatable and need to hide in order to gain acceptance. One of the biggest problems with Trump is that he's made racism mainstream and made it so that the racist fuckwads don't feel ashamed enough to hide their bigoted views from the rest of society.

Honestly, that's one of the primary reasons why any Democrat is better than any Republican for elected office. Even if our political system prevents almost any legislation from being passed due to the level of bullshit power held by the Senate, at least having a figurehead at the front of the country that WON'T blatantly pander to and empower racists might send them skittering back under the fridge like the cockroaches they are.

I'd actually argue concealing racism is often worse (until you reach the point of open lynchings or worse). When you hide racism behind a mask of civility, you can pass facially neutral laws that allow police & law enforcement to enforce them selectively and create huge racial disparities that moderate whites honestly don't give a shit about. Hidden attitudes will probably never change. When it's blatant, open, and obvious, moderates actually care and meaningful change can actually happen. Plus, it has the added benefit of letting you know exactly who the racists are. And they will get challenged publicly on it, with real consequences to their beliefs.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

what in the world is a grinder

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

I saw this question on twitter and apparently people disagree? Interpret the question however you like.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

##Vote: No Lynch

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

See unless Han has just completely given up on his win condition being possible, I simply don't believe that voting him actually makes him weaker because I don't think he would reveal that information.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Arthur

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

scooby doo

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

one piece

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Leanansidhe posted...

Lynch all liars

You're the one who lied about being lucky!

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Leanansidhe posted...

3

Oh, that's just a joke because I get through life through luck alone, without any kind of skill. But I've been really lucky

it was 9 :(

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Hbthebattle posted...

5.3825

ok to clarify i am thinking of an integer between 1-10, because I am nice

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Leanansidhe posted...

I wish I had that win-con, I'm extremely lucky

I'm thinking of a number between 1-10. If you can guess it, I'll join your team, "the fighting mongooses".

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

firefdr posted...

well sure

I'm a dice roller, every night I roll a d12 and if I get a 12 I leave

what about yours?

also if true this is a very unfun wincon and i feel bad for you :(

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

turbopuns3 posted...

Chang you're focusing too much on something unimportant. I'm not really championing ben's lynch here, I was just making an entrance beyond "oh this started"

turbopuns3 posted...

But no you're right, I don't have a specific reason to want to lynch him related to my wincon or anything

no worries, just wanted to clarify that point!

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

turbopuns3 posted...

His claimed objective is to remove people from the game and that's like the opposite of my objective so

so your objective is to....keep people in the game? or something along those lines? but you still want to lynch Ben, removing one player from the game?

By your own admission:

turbopuns3 posted...

How effective can ben really be I wonder? And I'm not even saying that as an argument to lynch him

I mean just think it through

Everyone is likely to be cagey and lie and not want to help other people win, naturally. Ben is claiming a role that completely subverts that, but like how does it play out? Unless your wincon is "get 1 person to support you" then other people besides ben are still gonna be trying to stop you from winning

If you want to keep players in the game, and you don't even think Ben will be particularly effective in this game as the only person actually helping others to win....why does it even make sense for you to want to lynch him?


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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

turbopuns3 posted...

Did anyone consider that if we all vote for ben then we all get to survive except for ben? It's a pretty good point when you think about it.

Did anyone consider that if we all vote for puns then we all get to survive except for puns? Its a pretty good point when you think about it.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

ViolentAbacus posted...

If I could get onboard a no lynch, as long as we don't straight up vote for a no lynch.

Also, team work for the win!

how exactly do you propose this and why? It requires very difficult tiebreaker rules to achieve a no lynch without voting for no lynch.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Aecioo posted...

also oh yeah chang he also doubles down on it on page 2

So either plum messed up on his roles/rules or we have our first outright lie in this game. I expect almost everyone to lie because we are all independent, but this is at least our first confirmed one!

oh dont get me wrong there is 0 chance hes telling the truth here regardless of whether hes town or scum. But this is a compelling case that he isnt just making a throwaway joke.

IGCD, will you continue to stand by this claim?


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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Aecioo posted...

i dunno, his next immediate post is

i really just think its a dumb joke though

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Dunkey gets it completely right here imo. Fun game, excellent soundtrack (Ricco Harbor goes hard). The main thing that sucks about the game is all the blue coin collecting and thats why its the only 3D Mario I havent completed 100% (aside from 3D World, which i havent played)

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Aecioo posted...

What made you lean town on what you think is a fake claim as opposed to scum? Everyone in this game, scum and town, has the same incentive to lie if it helps them win.

exactly. Its likely that almost everybody will throw fake claims left and right and most of those wont belong to scum players. So lying in itself isnt going to constitute a scumtell at all.

as for this one in particular, it feels too obvious that its even approaching joke territory to me? I dont buy that anyones win condition required them to die by circumstances 100% out of their control and its also just asking for yourself to get lynched later in the game if you maintain that claim


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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Tbh my read on IGCD was that he was fake claiming that as town to try and stall for more time to complete his wincon

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

i dunno if it's late and i'm sleepy or i'm just missing something but did someone claim they were "town" ? i am totally not following this discussion right now can someone direct me more specifically to what i'm missing here?

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Pendragon71037 posted...

I...
Thats a fair point actually, Han what the heck is up?

The only thing I can think of is some kind of condition where you have to go a full day without getting voted. But obviously if his win condition was ACTUALLY that there's 0 chance he would ever mention anything remotely similar.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

goat cheese

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Pendragon71037 posted...

Okay, what do you propose we talk about instead?

Why Han says he gets weaker every time someone votes him and unvotes don't matter!

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Han probably wants to be voted and is using reverse psychology

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Aecioo posted...

that is opposite the rules of mafia which is play to win

but everyone is independently on their own team in this version. there can be advantages to working together and establishing good will :)

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

HanOfTheNekos posted...

No. Voting me reduces my chances of winning, however :(

isnt that kind of true for everyone?

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Ill probably have to ask for help completing mine at SOME point. But not today!

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

damn, fake claims are flying past me left and right

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

i'm more of a "mongeese" kind of guy myself

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

Aecioo posted...

Here's the problem with that. All "town" wins if scum are eliminated - it's outlined in the opening post. Someone completing their win condition if they're town actively affects my chances of winning because they will leave the game, lowering the amount of town left in the game and increasing my chances of being lynched, night killed, or scum winning. There is almost no situation I can think of where helping anyone leave this game (unless they're scum? would that even happen?) helps me, and as I said, I claim independent survivor.

please correct me if I missed something

that's all fair and true, but you could still be nice and do it anyway.

i think there is one scenario where it does apply, and that's when you've already completed your win condition and you just have to wait for the end of the day to trigger so you can leave.

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal

a quick question to start things off!

If you knew another player's win condition in this game and their completing it did not affect your chances of also winning, would you prefer to help them complete it or prevent them from completing it?

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The Artist Formerly Known as Hannyabal