Lurker > PrivateBiscuit1

TheRock1525 posted...

I don't care about the firing aspect.

I'm annoyed at the whole "hope you get better, buddy!" tone of it.

I mean. We just explained it to you. They need to sound supportive of him while he's in rehab so there's no doubt that they weren't firing him in part because he's in rehab.

TheRock1525 posted...

Also how bad are you with words that when you want to say "man I really want to sleep with this girl" your best descriptor was "I wanna straight rape that woman."

Like come the fuck on.

A guy making an awful joke that probably didn't know any better given the nature of the business, which we all have all realized over the past week is a heap of degeneracy.

What's important is he's owned up to it, understood what was wrong with it, took the extra effort to talk it out with who he wronged, and is taking the step to be better.

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Jakyl said it more concisely, yeah.

They had to make a statement but they didn't want their statement to open themselves up to a lawsuit from Havoc.

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Maybe they didn't want to sound callous talking about a guy going to rehab and didn't take into account it would be a bad way to phrase that with everything going on. And they legally can't fire anyone in rehab.

Presumably, they probably learned from people saying they didn't take a harsh enough stance on Jimmy Havoc and corrected that accordingly.

Edit: Additionally, they may not have wanted to make a statement about firing someone while they were in rehab and open them up for a lawsuit wherein Havoc could potentially use it as evidence that they wanted to fire him in part because he went to rehab.

Like, they needed to make a statement but given all of the complications behind that rule, they probably had a hard time thinking of how to best phrase it.

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Okay I didn't disbelieve you.

But I desperately didn't want it to be real.

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KamikazePotato posted...

wow, what an Hypocrite, coming from a land who was responsible for creating feminism through their Hentai industry indirectly

OH COME ON FUCK YOU THAT'S NOT REAL

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My trans friends hate the game and are super unhappy with the way they deal with trans issues in it. One of them doesn't even want to know more about it because from what they heard already, it hits entirely too close to home. As well-intentioned as it is, Druckmann should have probably consulted actual trans people on how to deal with it. Unless he intended to but they were a part of the 70% of people who left his shitty company.

One of them actually gave me the idea to do the Rick & Morty meme though.

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Yes.

FIFA 99 is the most well-known usage of Rockafella Skank.

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Also, completely unsurprising, but the Knight family in the UK apparently do a lot of really heinous stuff too.

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Sammy Guevara said on a podcast 4 years ago he wanted to rape Sasha Banks.

Sammy apologized privately to Sasha, they talked about it, and then he apologized on Twitter as well. Sasha Banks fans are photoshopping that he liked a Tweet that defended the remark before he issued the apology which was proven false.

I'm glad Sammy handled it like this though.

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I never played Arms, but is Min Min a weird choice? I feel like I've never seen that character, but I've seen a few of the other ones.

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Okay that joke at the end sold me.

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So the Joey Ryan stuff is getting worse, and worse and he may actually get criminal charges.

Jesus fucking Christ.

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"Hey Taker, the Saudi Prince wants to see you and Andre the Giant fight. Can you help me out, bud?"

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Thanks buddy.

Keep doing the lord's work.

Edit: The best part is that the people on that board are actually taking that topic seriously.

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KP, you forgot the title. It's integral to the copy pasta.

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cucks rise up

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Woah The Last Of Us 3 looks lit.

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what.

I literally just took the story that they tried tell and essentially re-ordered and altered it to fix all the narrative failings that people have. To be very clear:

• People want development for all of the side characters who fail to get it.
• People want to be able to sympathize with Abby.
• People want enough time with Joel so that his death has more significance.
• People want actual nuance to the characters concerning the events of the game since nobody actually has meaningful character development.
• People want the ending to be better.

I took the major beats from the story:

• Joel killed Abby's dad
• Abby is angry and vengeful over it.
• Ellie is upset at Joel after learning the events of the last game.
• Abby gets revenge on Joel.
• Ellie wants revenge on Abby.

The only major thing I changed was the ending, so that the 'revenge bad' story actually has a more poignant meaning by the end as opposed to Ellie losing literally everything despite not getting revenge. Otherwise, it's basically the same story.

I'm absolutely alright with a revenge story, and frankly I think it's a good idea given how the last game ends. But the way it plays out is so poorly done and has a ton of issues that I've very clearly laid out, and I offered a way that they could have told the overall story better to fix a lot of the issues.

Or hell, if you re-order this game to order it in sequential order as opposed to play as Ellie, throw in flash backs, play as Abby (which is entirely a flashback), play as Ellie again, with even more flashbacks, you get a much more cohesive game in general. I'd still have a lot of complaints about how it's presented narratively, but a lot of the issues get resolved that way.

But I think it's very disingenuous to say I think the story is bad because it's not the one I wanted. Because hell, I don't even know if the story I outlined above is a story I'd want; it's just one where I was trying to improve on the story they wanted to tell.

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I recently saw praise for a lot of the journal stuff with Ellie, and that her relationship with Dina is a lot better and makes more sense when you read them. There's apparently funny stuff about Joel being absolutely oblivious to Ellie being gay and talking to her about whether or not she has a crush on Jesse. I think it's that kind of coming of age stuff this game needed more of at the forefront. The game would be a lot more enjoyable if we got to deal with that.

Maybe instead of this lame revenge story, we have a parallel story where we play as Ellie and actually go through a few years with her so we can see how she ends up growing up, and then we also get to develop the other characters in Jackson. Maybe they need to defend Jackson with some drama with another group that wants to take over or is outright hostile towards them.

And then we also get a story of Abby, this mysterious, badass girl who we see has nobody in her life after he father died as she's shipped off to this military-esque group and she is hardened and tempered by it. We see her become more hardened by the experience and she's mad and she's angry and she's self-destructive and we start to sympathize with her because we see how her life has been destroyed by her father's murder. Eventually, it's revealed that she wants revenge, and her close group of friends, who have watched her life deteriorating also decide to support her in her in getting revenge.

And then all of a sudden, it's revealed Joel killed her father, the surgeon, soon after Ellie learns the truth about Joel. And then things start to come to a head and we get a satisfying climax: it's Jackson's people vs. Abby's hit squad. Joel ends up being in a last stand with Ellie. Joel knows they're both dead unless Joel sacrifices himself so Ellie can get away. They reconcile before that and Joel willingly allows himself to die.

And then you can have another portion of the game where Ellie tries to go after Abby as she leaves. Instead of everyone going "Yeah Ellie, you should definitely go and get revenge right now." They all try to talk her out of it. They say how meaningless it will end up being, especially after Joel gave himself up so she could live. We see Abby not feeling totally fulfilled by killing Joel, but acting sure that she was. We see Ellie be increasingly more brutal as she kills the remnants of Abby's crew. And then Ellie and Abby talk about how Abby lost everything and her entire life was ruined by Joel, while Ellie talks about how her life was destroyed. Ellie is about to kill Abby and asks how it felt to kill Joel, she hesitates, knowing that it wasn't fulfilling, but she maintains she loved it and thought it was great and, parallel to Joel saying he'd kill Abby's dad again, she says she'd do it all over again if she had the chance. So Ellie just brutally murders her. Like, absolutely as brutal and traumatizing as the club to the head scene.

And so we get our revenge story of Ellie returning to Jackson, telling everyone it's done. Maybe we get another scene where they're all having some kind of party and Ellie is standing or sitting alone. One of her friends comes to ask her how she's doing and she's just numb to everything, and all she can think about is how brutally she killed Abby, because she didn't listen to her friends and understand that it was all meaningless. She lost her father and she's traumatized by the lengths she went to murder Abby, and that appears to not be changing.

Hey, that's satisfying all around. Satisfying character development all around. Still gets a story of revenge across extremely well. We can feel for both characters. And we don't need to resort to lame, cheap tricks to try and fool the player into being emotional.

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I feel like a lot of this game's issues could have been resolved if Pikachu was in it tbh.

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I think people have fun at first for like the first 7 hours or so and during that time tend to say "I don't think it's that bad." But then they start to get really tired because the pacing isn't great and they don't really develop any characters. The plot doesn't feel like it's progressing and you're really doing anything and nobody talks about the plot at hand.

I think people really turn when the game finally gets interesting when Abby pops in and kills Jesse and it cuts to her part of the story. Because nobody likes Abby, she does next to nothing to endear her to the player, and nothing really happens in her story that means anything. So it's paced out even worse than Ellie's portion, which I think people forgive because they really like Ellie.

So yeah, I think most of the people really get tired of this game, but it plays well and the scenery is beautiful. I have popped around at least 15 streamers by now randomly and I haven't seen one who actually loves this game. And all of them are just so frustrated and done with this game when they're playing with Abby.

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lmao That forum is a fucking disaster right now. It's impossible to engage with people there now.

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It's also because they wanted to use Lee as an actual character. It's a women in refrigerator situation, only with Joel as our woman in this situation.

Ultimately, as an individual, he doesn't matter. They don't establish anything, really, with him until he's killed. There's no dialogue between him and his killer. He's completely helpless in the entire situation. Abby and Ellie don't even have a dialogue about what happened. There's no more than 3 lines exchanged each about Joel's death between them.

You could do this story, but you need to do it in a better way. Establish a reasoning for Abby to want to kill Joel before she does it. Have Joel at least have a chance to reflect on it so we know his take. Have Ellie actually talk with Joel or anyone else about it.

But like most of the things in this game, they instead attempt shock factor instead. He's killed in such a way to shock the player, and not to tell a good story. And that's what's most shitty about it.

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HanOfTheNekos posted...

I haven't read more than the first page of this topic, but man, Biscuit, really seems like you put the cart before the horse on this one.

I'm not sure what you mean. Considering the disaster this story is and it's being mostly agreed upon that it's a narrative mess after all, and the issues as the start of the game are largely a reason why the rest of the game continues to be a mess.

Unless you mean about the Abby being trans thing, which was the most assumed conclusion after the Times article that made it sound like a major character.

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My trans friends are pretty unhappy with how they deal with the trans issues in this game. Ironically, Lev is about the only character people like. Him and Yara are the only two characters that seem to have anything interesting going on, and their story is largely irrelevant to anything in the game and is basically just a giant time waster. Their story just stalls the game out at every moment. You just go back and forth and back and forth. Yara and Lev come back to the Aquarium. But oh wait, Yara is hurt so you need to go right back and then get medicine for her. So you leave the Aquarium and then get the medicine and come back with it and give it to her. But oh wait, Lev wants to talk his crazy mom into coming with them, so now we need to go find Lev. And then Lev kills his mom who refuses to listen and it was a total waste of time for Lev to even come back int he first place. But then Yara dies, meaning we wasted our time getting the the medicine since she doesn't even live for one more full day later. Everything is just a waste of time with Abby's story.

While they're the best characters in the game, which isn't huge praise, they probably should have developed the other characters more. You learn nothing about these characters but they seem like they want you to care about them. But they also don't dedicate any time to them. You can't actually tell us anything about Dina, for instance, and you probably spend the most time with her on Ellie's side. She's just a snark machine. And what about Jesse? You barely get a chance to actually like the dude before he's unceremoniously murdered.

But anyone on Abby's side? Total fucking waste of time. These losers were all complicit, standing around and helping Abby torture a man gruesomely. They suck. You see them die hours ago and then the game wants you to get to know them and feel bad about murdering them, but they also don't want to put in the time to build the characters up, which is why we have other cheap crap like giving the fucking dogs time (throw this toy 4 times in a row). Manny just dies after maybe 4 scenes with him and then Abby moves on even though Manny is supposed to be her best friend.

The way they set this game up with Ellie for 10 hours then Abby for 10 hours after that is just so dumb, so you never end up caring about a single side character.

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In a bit of irony, Joey Ryan just created a stable on TNA called Cancel Culture a month ago.

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You sure don't.

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Joey Ryan is done.

His response was awful and more people are coming out over him now because of it.

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You seem to be mistaken.

He was just giving Lev a one-way trip to FLAVORTOWN.

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Eh... it plays out okay in context because they build up to it throughout the flashbacks. I need to defend this a bit.

He continues to reassure her that there was no cure, end of story, stop asking about it. She's understandably upset. What hurts the reveal is that she, apparently, holds a grudge without actually speaking to Joel about it at all. He's treated like shit by Ellie after that, verbally tears down Joel when he does anything as simple as defending her, and she refuses to even talk things through with him. She only barely seems to talk it through with him at the end, and it feels like there shouldn't have been so much resentment before that point.

Joel screwed up by not being honest with her, but the fact that Ellie can't accept or understand that he did it out of love for her and try to talk with him or come to grips with it is why it doesn't work well.

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China, Korea, and Japan are also giving this game an awful user rating.

Oof.

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These are new accusations with full receipts of messages.

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"Why would I want to play as Abby when I want Abby dead so much? Why are they making me do this? It makes no sense."

"I'm not bored... it's just fine. I'm just trying to rush to the end so I can see the ending because I want to know what happens."

Some random fucking normal streamer girl wrapped in a blanket with stuffed animals behind her is so exasperated with this game.

She is now currently singing a song about how Abby is both boring and a bitch as I'm about to stop watching/listening in the background. Actually wait, even better. "I would rate this game a stall out of 10."

Also it's kind of ridiculous watching Abby constantly box with these zombies. Why are you boxing with them when a single bite can infect you and you're not even wearing sleeves? It just looks silly.

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For more diversity in opinions, I just randomly tuned into a girl who looks like she's not older than maybe 21 that's playing this. She's in the Abby part.

She's saying she's bored with the Abby section, stopping to exclaim "What's the point of all of this Abby storyline!?", and just outright saying she wants the Abby stuff to end. She's also commenting on how weird Abby looks.

And when she's flirting with Owen, who is dating Mel at the time, she's saying stuff about how it's not okay and that a girl would not be alright with her man hanging out with his ex-girlfriend, especially with these romantic undertones.

There was a wall of notes that people left and the girl went "Aww." after them and when Abby is done looking at them she is so outwardly negative and the streamer would just go "Wow" or just give a weird look.

I don't know why they thought people would care even a little bit about Abby's story, or how this is supposed to endear her to us. Her background seems really uninspired with a ton of romance homewrecking bullshit in it. Who is this character for if she can't even get girls around Abby's age to like her or be engaged with her story?

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Oh, there's no way.

The game tries really hard to make you like Abby, but they also I think accidentally make her absolutely loathsome? Her sex scene is actually her screwing the guy with a pregnant girlfriend. After he calls her a psychopath. Like... what did they think people would think about her after that!? I think they thought about these overarching things about why we're supposed to like her and be onboard with her crusade, but then when you start thinking of the smaller details like Joel saving her and she kills him without a second though, her being all "Yeah dad, you should definitely kill that unconscious girl for the greater good!", her being a homewrecker, her seemingly never caring at all about her friends dying so much as she cares about killing, her telling Owen to man up when he's pouring his heart to her about how he hates all this killing, being ready to kill a pregnant girl in sheer joy, and she's just... awful. Her most redeeming qualities come from her being friends with Lev, the trans person. And the ONLY reason she doesn't kill the pregnant girl in cold blood is because Lev looks at her sadly. That's it.

But they still think at the end of this game, you're not supposed to hate her. So by the time you get Ellie back to do her final crusade to kill her, after Ellie gives up everything, just to QUIT for what amounts to seemingly no reason whatsoever... it's so unfilfilling, because you want to kill her. Because she's an awful person. And she still killed Joel in the most selfish, hideous way she could and got mad that she couldn't keep torturing him.

But they think after seeing her cry over her dead father, you're supposed to be on her side which... my god. It's wild that they thought that was enough.

Edit: But to circle back... no. They want you to like Abby. They have Ellie definitively decide... well, I ruined my life for nothing and killing Abby would mean nothing for me. They want you to think Ellie made the right decision by not killing Abby at the end.

There's no way whatsoever they expect Abby to be the super final boss of the next game that probably won't happen.

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Oh good lord. The streamer I'm watching got through the part with Ellie and Joel in the museum and went "Well, that was the most fun in the game. I cherish these fifteen minutes." And then when it gets to the present he just goes "I can't wait to kill Abby, man."

This poor guy. I don't know how you have these flashbacks of Joel being a wonderful father to Ellie and still expect people to go "You know, Abby's not too bad."

I can't believe how much they expected people to buy in on Abby's reasoning for killing Joel enough that they are willing to not hate Abby for killing him. It's absolutely baffling.

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It really falls apart when Ellie is having nervous breakdowns after killing the people who ganged up and murdered Joel but doesn't have an issue with all the other people she kills who are actively trying to kill her too.

This is why your revenge plot is stupid shit, Druckmann. You're actively asking people to ignore everything you're doing between your story bits.

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I could see that. However, that is absolutely not the intent. lol

One thing I notice is that people don't really like Dina and think she's annoying because all she does is snark. I randomly tuned into one random Twitch streamer's stream and the first thing he said is "I know that Ellie is hooking up with her, but I really don't like this chick." One girl I watched stream for a bit already beat the game and was replaying it, and each time Dina had something to say she would groan or tell her to shut up. I don't know how they thought Dina would be a good partner replacement for Joel, but it's shocking how much they've managed to do a poor job with these characters.

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Bye Dream

https://twitter.com/JoshFullerPW/status/1274147388672954371

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"Bro"

https://twitter.com/danlaw74/status/1274099334712373249

Now, I can actually comment on this a bit, but okay. He has 19 years working as a lawyer, so I guess it's fair that he's an omega level boomer since not too shockingly, a lot of them are. He might not do efiling either if it's a small firm and he absolutely hates his life and wants to keep doing everything the hard way. But I feel like for something this sensitive, you'll take your time to attempt to research how to best do this.

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No worries man, I can barely keep up with all of the accusations being thrown out now.

I agree the wording of the message was probably not great, but I had also seen someone mention that AEW may be waiting until he's more stable to release him with the way they worded that because they were afraid he might be a suicide risk.

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Right, but didn't she not name the person who was actually raped? That's my point.

This puts AEW in a lot more difficult of a spot because it's not "This person accused you of rape" it's "Your ex has a story from someone else that you raping them." It makes it a lot more difficult for them or anyone else to try to verify the claims to justify firing them.

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Gallagher was released though. I didn't even know anyone said something about him before this.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the person who accused him of rape do so anonymously? It's a lot harder to fire a guy who is accused of rape when they can't even verify the victim.

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I probably wouldn't phrase it like that, no.

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I'm not. I'm in support of a dude who has mental and emotional issues and has substance abuse issues getting help, so he doesn't hurt anybody else who ends up in his life, and AEW are taking the time to fully look into things fully before making a decision.

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Honestly, I think this is the best way that they could deal with Jimmy Havoc's situation. I'm in support of AEW's approach here.

https://twitter.com/AEWrestling/status/1274114435867697157?s=20

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...That's definitely not a good look either. This is extremely complicated and I would hope this lawyer isn't some friend making terrible decisions under the name of his practice.

https://twitter.com/thejamiesenegal/status/1274100592009515017?s=20

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Sorry for that. I didn't realize that quoted text doesn't actually stay spoilered for whatever reason.

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From what I've seen from most people who have already completed the game of various different political views and backgrounds...

Abby is not likable. They seem very tone deaf to everything concerning her from even before Joel dies where she murders and tortures him in cold blood without a second thought after saving her life to even her own chapters in the story. When her chapter comes, everyone is pretty deflated when they realize they need to play as her, and everything falls flat. Which she does good things in the game, she's also extremely cold and easy to anger and the crux of her sympathy is that Joel killed her dad, which is negated by how horribly she murders him. As a result, you play as a character you don't like and you can't sympathize with her because she went way overboard and seems absolutely manic and thrilled to commit all of her violence. The reason you haven't heard much about Abby as a character is because nobody really has much positive to say about her. She's a bad person who continues to do bad things and barely shows humanity.

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