Lurker > red13n

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Politicians also have the ability to frame public opinion. My point isn't that Dems should use the slogan. My point is they could have prevented it, and didn't, and now they need a new slogan. Conservatives will always try to co-opt "Defund the Police" as a weapon. That is not the fault of the activists, and it is no longer their problem if they don't want it to be.

Again, not disagreeing. The politicians could have and need to be better.

I just don't like the framing like "the acitivists had no impact". They do. There is a lesson to be learned for them here too.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

The slogan is always going to exist, dude. That is what you don't seem to get. It's out there, and everyone has to deal with it.

Huh? I get this.

It doesn't mean you have to keep using it. Come up with something better. They have the power to frame public opinion. Use it (A bit more intelligently this time though).

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well I can't speak for activists but I can tell you right now that they're only going to change the slogan if it isn't doing work for them. I'll disagree with AOC on a point - activists probably do "focus testing" in some form, and for all I know it's a good slogan for the ones still using it. Maybe their goal is specifically to be radical, as BLM was initially. So that isnt happening, Democrats have no control over it.

So who are you telling to drop it?

If we're going with your hypotheticals, no one.

In the real word, the premise behind "defund the police" was polling really well until the actual slogan came up. So I'm telling those activists to get a better slogan on that premise.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

My point is their goal isn't PR. Activists have to be centered on building a strong and persistent movement. BLM was like this too. Why do they need to change so Democrats get better PR?

I'm not saying they should change. Fuck that. They got "Defund the police" to trend nationwide. Thats good. It shows how powerful they are(Saying activists dont have power is still very wrong).

Its just the slogan sucks. Recognize it, drop it, come up with something else and go. All I ask is that people dont go "lol that didnt suck fuck you". Because it did. Own it, move on.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

But also fighting for more education reform nation wide will help with this as well.

It goes beyond education reform actually. The education system is designed to throw people into an economy where they have little free time beyond work and stuck on a focus of personal wealth.

Unless you advocate for shorter work weeks or things like that, people will -never- have time for political investment beyond a surface level.

But again, the whole system is built to prevent the populace from realizing how much they are being exploited.

Oh and Prop 22 in California just made this significantly worse. Because now big businesses have realized they can literally just buy laws to exploit workers further.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

The vaccine everyone is currently talking about takes almost a month to be effective(A week after a second dose, which is given after like 3 weeks of the first).

If we don't control the virus, we are going to have a hell of a time even distributing the vaccine without getting everyone sick.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

This might come as a shock to you but activists aren't trying to just win in the court of public opinion, they are trying to enact change by any power they have available

Huh? Not disagreeing with this. I've been the one on the side of "activists have more power than most realize".

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

StartTheMachine posted...

Chris I appreciate where you're coming from, but you can't educate people who don't want to be educated. And that is a very, very significant portion of our population.

The system is built so that the working class don't have time to be educated on politics.

We are unlikely to ever fix this.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

You realize these activists played a huge part in turning public opinion, right?

You realize Georgia probably doesn't turn out for Biden without all this messaging right?

Activists have power.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

What part of that is delusional?

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

pxlated posted...

Either side??? What "side" are the activists on? What fucking power do they have?

You don't think activists have power? What the fuck are they doing then. Might as well stay home.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Basically, I think its clear by the margins that there is more than "Defund the police" that caused these candidates to lose(Record turnout may have likely been a large portion of the blame, actually).

At the same time, there is little doubt that "Defund the police" made these races tougher. It was a dumb misleading slogan that made for easy attack ads. There is a lesson about "Don't make dumb slogans" that I think is being overlooked.

There have been among progressives on twitter recently a message of "Dont worry about your actions, its up to politicians to frame the message". This is coddling way too hard for my taste. People -should- worry about the affects of their actions, especially when they aren't necessary for their own cause. Yes, politicians should frame messaging better, but also it -is- the job of the activist to try to make their message as effective as possible. You are still trying to win in the court of public opinion.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I am not disagreeing with you that I don't like the slogan. But I am not letting the politicians off that easy. Bernie didn't touch the slogan but talked about the heart. Much different than the crying going on now

I don't disagree here really. I just don't like completely trying to let activists off the hook here either.

There are lessons to be learned by both sides and I don't believe in coddling either side.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

pxlated posted...

You keep talking about messaging. What fucking messaging? Activist messaging? That politicians have literally 0 control over or direct affiliation with? How about the messaging of the politicians that lost? You know, the messaging they actually have control over? And ownership of?

I didn't ever say they have control over it.

Just that it is messaging that is used against them. In the eyes of public opinion they own it too.

To say it had no impact is just ignorant. It becomes an issue whether you want it to or not.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically the centrist dems are as usual scapegoating. They will do anything to not actually have change. Fuck them all. Election over, back to calling them out.

This isn't entirely fair either btw. Even Bernie wasn't touching "Defund the police" with a 10 foot pole.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Well yeah, so we keep educating people. It doesn't need to poll well to be right. No ballot measures are needed to pass these things. Just pass the budgets and go 'this is all we meant'

No one is actually saying its wrong here though. Just that the messaging did have some impact on elections(It did).

And again, for candidates to go "Yeah those progressives cost me an election". Yes, its wrong. They shouldn't blame the people.

At the same time, people shouldn't be trying to absolve the message(Or slogan, in this case) of having impact. It did.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Why be a figurehead when it gets you killed?

I'd like to think the FBI and such has gotten better at keeping important people alive, tbh.

We haven't had a major assassination in this country in awhile.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Then come up with a better slogan and tweet it out for all I care. But aoc is exactly right - MLK was heavily disliked in his day. We need to get over catering to bad people. We have done it long enough.

No one is saying this though. The cause is good, the actual root meaning of the slogan is good.

The slogan just polls horribly in comparison to everything else.

You don't have to focus group to know that.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Also in regards to MLK, I think its unfair to compare protesters to him. He was a fantastic speaker, the BLM movement as a whole could really use someone like him as a figurehead. But right now that person doesn't really exist. So for now, there really is some onus on the people to recognize "Hey this slogan isn't popular, we dont focus group, but we can see that people like the message but not the dumb slogan".

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Defend the police is not a political slogan though. She's not wrong at all.

It gets into the political discourse though. Like, theres no reason to keep the slogan. People should have realized long ago it did nothing but harm what was a popular cause and stop using it(It isn't factually accurate either).

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

No progressive lost re election in the house. Blaming the left is just the usual loser scapegoat mentality of leadership.

This is the problem here though, people are seeing this as an either/or situation. The fact is both are wrong. Some of these candidates were ineffective, defund the police was also a bad slogan that made running difficult.

Basically, there is plenty of blame to go around, both sides need to own up to it.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Hell Corrik you've been a big proponent of "The goal is to not overrun the medical care system".

Well, guess what is happening? The hospital system is starting to be strained and will be overrun in much of the country at the current rate.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Corrik7 posted...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/biden-covid-advisor-says-us-lockdown-of-4-to-6-weeks-could-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy.html

Oh boy here we go

hes right?

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Red please understand no one actually gives a shit about the stupid slogan. The specific wording is not the issue, the issue is that the slogan has been made the issue by people opposed to the policy

Honestly, the stupid slogan is a big part of the issue. Pretty much everything about the cause has full public support except the dumb slogan, which Republican's have weaponized very effectively.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

backtracking

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

I mean, only one side is in total denial right now.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

StealThisSheen posted...

I do think there's an actual strategy to this.

Trump's dragging this out for as long as he can while collecting donations. He knows how dumb his base is, and that they will keep donating to him even when they're told most of their donation is going to pay off his campaign debt, not to any actual legal fight. All he has to yell is "FRAUD!" and they run to give him money. He's taking them for the suckers that they are.

Yeah worst case scenario for the Trump team is that they are able to pay off their campaign debt since Trump ran that just like he ran his businesses(Straight into bankruptcy).

Trump has never given a damn about anything beyond his own ego, hes still going to be rich enough to not give a damn about any fallout from him fucking with the United States for his few remaining months. Has literally nothing to lose.

And as I've mentioned before, we are 3 months away from him being able to hold rallies and charge people whatever he wants to attend.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Biden is the President Elect. Deal with it.

Or be gullible.

I expect the people that are usually gullible will continue to be. Not surprising.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

At least half the fundraising the Trump campaign is doing post-election is going to debt repayment.

They are just grifting to the end.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

I don't have enough accounts to beat the stuffer if I wanted to try.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Trump lost enough states by a large enough margin that he no longer has a path to victory.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

A week ago at this moment everything looked awful because all signs pointed to Trump outperforming 2016 Trump.

Which was true.

Luckily Biden ended up outperforming by even more.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

GameCube, 360, Wii, and Switch

Wii was the only pre-order.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Do they still sell those huge full pokedex books?

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Wanglicious posted...

swear to fucking god this is why nobody trust the cdc. -_-

This is not the reason "nobody" trusts the CDC.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Fuck Trump.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Pinky
X-Men
Mystery
Where Are You

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

All donations should be going towards Stacey Abrams TBQH.

Correct.

Her machine is amazing.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

The Lincoln Project probably helped.

Now there are better people capable of helping and The Lincoln Project has completed its primary objective. There are also signs they may have greatly misused funds

People should be wary of them. And unless they are a Republican, they probably really absolutely shouldn't give them any money.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

foolm0r0n posted...

So... cops

Weed money needs to be specifically earmarked for something good or else it's still blood money

california seems to use most of it for social services, child care programs, and the like.

Looks like a small bit of it towards enforcement to get drunk drivers off the roads.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

CaptainOfCrush posted...

And while it doesn't "defund" them or even redirect funds, decriminalizing pot indirectly gives the police less power.

It actually can bring in significant tax revenue, so you can fund whatever the hell you want with it.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

LordoftheMorons posted...

"Defund the police" specifically was very unpopular. We'll have to wait and see if there's solid evidence that it hurt, but I can't imagine it helped.

The actual goal of "Reallocate police funding" polls fine.

The slogan itself was terrible.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

TMNT
Titan
Courage
-

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Four Seasons Total Landscaping may have been the moment even Fox News couldn't keep up the farce.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Reminder for large games: 2000+ post day 1s will turn people off from playing the game.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

KamikazePotato posted...

They're just mad that a black person's vote counts for more than 3/5 of one.

They'd still be mad.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

That would be a relatively small Supreme Court for 2 to 4 years.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

I am so tired of articles citing "Latinos in Florida" as if it applies to latinos elsewhere. The demographic couldn't really be more different.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

in for mafia

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.