Lurker > rwlh

Drakeryn posted...

it's a 2013 game, I'd personally count it unless that's an official ruling

I think NFUN is referring to the comic I posted scans of, not the video game.

He can also summon
https://scribblenauts.fandom.com/wiki/Death

FOUR DEATHS

I don't blame you for making that call.

That said, he can still summon lots of ridiculous nonsense in the games and can interact with the world in lots of creative ways.

Oh boy, here we go.

In-game Maxwell has the ability to summon lots of objects (generic mostly, but this also includes a ton of characters from DC Comics) into existence simply by writing them in his Magic Notebook. It could be argued that these are watered down versions of those objects, of course - him summoning the Anti-Monitor doesn't automatically mean the Anti-Monitor from DC canon is there, or that the summon will even stay loyal to Maxwell. Also he can summon things like nuclear bombs, black holes, etc., though he's also affected by them. But that's a starting point.

Maxwell can also imbue his creations with various adjectives. He can also imbue adjectives onto things he hasn't even created, including himself.

This is the big thing though, and if NFUN wants to not count this, I can't blame him: when the Scribblenauts/DC crossover game came out, they published a comic book where Maxwell goes to the DC Earth and engages with various heroes and villains. And...well, they gave him some stuff.

Makes a dinosaur that can keep up with the Flash:
https://imgur.com/a/ZTbMK

Gives Batman bulletproof armor:
https://imgur.com/a/HYcQs

Makes a force field that can withstand attacks that took out the whole Justice League (Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman included):
https://imgur.com/a/KMS1E

Another force field that can tank Anti-Monitor's eye beams:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EH-b1ggMKFU/U8VLBiUj_qI/AAAAAAAEDvo/ZOTTizKi3TI/s1600/-016.jpg

This is my absolute favorite: he turns the sun red to depower Kryptonians. He turns the entire sun red. In seconds!
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FzfP4dd_r3M/U2b26wc0gYI/AAAAAAADObE/1hWQy9oj860/s1600/-008.jpg

He survives a multiversal reality wipe for...I don't know, reasons:
https://imgur.com/a/wjdD8

For more:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/3xqw6b/respect_maxwell_scribblenauts/

And here's every object he can summon from the games
https://scribblenauts.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Words

And all the DC things he can summon:
https://scribblenauts.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DC_characters_and_objects

So yeah, don't sleep on Maxwell. >_>

Thank you for all the links.

I only watched the beginning of the pilot but I think I covered everything else. I think you might be overselling this character. A lot of what you posted was stuff that his minions or his organization do, not Black Hat directly. Like, apparently he was responsible for getting the Universal Remote to Rob, but the clip doesn't actually show him using it. Dr. Flug is the one who gave Rob the Remote, and we don't even see him using it! So to list that as a feat for Black Hat is a bit of a stretch. There are other things too, like being responsible for other villains' weaponry and backstories, which is neat, but it isn't something that's really relevant in a one-on-one fight.

There's some interesting things in those clips. He teleports a lot and can teleport others, he has some sort of weird eldritch physiology, he can kick someone over a mountain, force choke people, has meta awareness and can communicate through different avatars. He's neat. Does he belong in Broken Tier? I'm not sure that he does.

Still voting for him though.

Black Hat.

Next round is probably going to be a different story though.

I tried reading up on Black Hat and I couldn't find any info on his massive multiversal shenanigans. He can do things like make a monster pop out of a movie, but I didn't see anything on the level of what Pirateking2000 is saying. Do you have a link to that?

Gambit

Some thoughts on Missingno:

Missingno would automatically duplicate the sixth of Gambit's items, however that would even be calculated, to 128.

Gambit would become "corrupted" when facing Missingno, but this might count as a form of mental manipulation, which he's immune to. Then again, that big text dump also says Gambit's Death persona was brought out after a telepathic attack, so who knows.

I think other than that Missingno has basic Pokemon attacks, so Gambit is probably the favorite here?

NFUN posted...

Also is the horseman Death

Three Deaths in the contest now!

Doomslayer.

I feel like Liquidator isn't all that intelligent and wouldn't come up with a way to defeat Doomslayer before Doomslayer can defeat him, and it sounds like Doomslayer has the capacity to defeat him.

What is Doomslayer's durability like?

Also, Liquidator doesn't strike me as super bright. Even if there was a huge body of water in the arena, I feel like he'd be likely to venture away from it, at least at first, then maybe retreat to it when prior options fail.

I didn't expect this to be such an interesting match.

Wonder how Aang vs. Liquidator would go.

What is Liquidator going to do? What are his offensive feats? The Wiki says he can make water constructs and water monsters and I can only assume they'd lose to your average Doom demon.

Sure, that works. Thanks for the explanation.

Doomslayer.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

The Doomslayer has cryo grenades and a sword that consumes souls. Freeze Liquidator, cleave soul with Crucible. Next!

How does the sword work? And how likely is Doomslayer to use it?

I don't really see Liquidator doing much to damage Doomslayer, but I'd like to have a better idea in my head of how Doomslayer wins.

Apologies if this was posted last round - I missed Liquidator's first match. Info on Liquidator from the Darkwing Duck wiki, emphasis mine:

"Not only is his body completely made out of water, he also possesses numerous water-related abilities in "Dry Hard," including reforming when evaporated and when frozen, commanding constructs made of his watery body and to create water monsters of limited intelligence not connected to him. In "Dry Hard" he also shows the ability to rapidly heat or chill water. In "Just Us Justice Ducks" he also shows the ability to engulf an opponent, Neptunia; who much to his chagrin, turns the tables on him by whipping him up with her trident from within.

The Liquidator is one of the most efficient mutants in existence as his powers are plentiful and the drawbacks limited. What little negative consequences he receives from his new form start with his appearance. Liquidator is one of those mutants who has undergone a visual change that makes it impossible for him to blend in. Despite having full control of water, he is weak against sponges an can easily be caught with one. Carelessness with his own form's access to small places also has occasionally caused him to become locked up in simple containers. But the big one is his weakness against any substance that reacts with water to form a solid structure. Get cement or pudding powder on him and it's a matter of waiting. He'll eventually get out, presumably as vapor, but for a good while he'll be immobilized."

Tor, I guess?

I don't usually nominate for topics like this, but I thought you might like some scary game music.

1. Clock Tower | Don't Cry, Jennifer | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WxrXvDdKuw
2. Saya no Uta | Schizophrenia | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSwtJEJVjU
2. Shadow Man | Playrooms | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV0kLXBnmyI
3. Super Metroid | Mother Brain | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwt740KznHE
4. The White Chamber | Terror (Corridor Sequence) | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tTFJC5zl4U

Luke has powerful telepathy and precognition. If Zenobia tries to teleport, he'll likely know where she'll be. Luke can erect a Force barrier that would probably be able to handle a lot of what Zenobia tries. And I don't know what her durability is like, but most things can't handle getting sliced in two with a lightsaber.

Okay! This took me more time than I would have liked. I tried giving you something from a lot of your "blind spots" as well as some wildcards. Well, I guess everything is a wildcard, since I have no idea what you like. My primary goal was to expose you to as much different stuff as possible. I'd like to think all fifteen songs are distinct enough that if you hate fourteen, maybe the fifteenth will hit the mark.

Chaos:
Aesop Rock | None Shall Pass | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d6S-efJSSY
Afro Celt Sound System | The Silken Whip | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31had2EKoy8
Agata | The Cable Has No Name | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-YHxSCbYs
Al Stewart | Year of the Cat | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bCr3H8MDfM
The Andrews Sisters | Straighten Up and Fly Right | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmjNIq49398
Angelique Kidjo | Agolo | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlgESq5FAx4
Clams Casino | Im God | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY6Juy9aaiY
Esperanto | Eleanor Rigby | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GApsh4Vw6_8
Girls With Attitude | Nothing in My Dreams | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcVzM-kgWWw
herbal tea | Garden | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrM38fpJG1E
Huun Huur Tu | Chiraa-Khoor | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bDntRWfL70
Marilyn Manson | Posthuman | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PakqRlK5DA
OutKast | B.O.B. (Bombs Over Baghdad) | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tPGWd0m4v0
Tatsuhiko Asano | Stroll Music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWV5BzZqjUA
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart | Requiem | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi8vJ_lMxQI

The letter A was good to me.

Only one ping is necessary, at the start of the topic. Thanks!

Also I suspect we'll be having a similar conversation when Maxwell comes up >_>;

JUST KIDDING retract Zenobia vote i don't know anything about them. Movie Luke is waaaay weaker than Legends Luke, and we don't ever really see him at his peak as a Jedi Master, but he's still not bad.

...oh.

Zenobia.

Additional things:
"Luke's skill with telekinesis was as remarkable as it was overwhelming. In the middle of a massive midday meal food fight at the Jedi Praxeum's mess hall, Luke instantly froze every morsel, drop and item, solid and liquid in midair as if trapped in time, only falling after Luke had consciously released everything within the room.[103] Luke was able to knock down an AT-AT by pressing against it with the Force; he also absorbed the initial cannon blasts from the AT-AT, before deflecting the rest with his lightsaber.[13][184]"

"In combat, Luke was able to destroy a group of hot-wired battle droids just by waving his hand, subtly displacing their master servos and causing the self-destruction of the group of droids.[13][184] This Force power was first manifested by Jedi Master Arca Jeth during the Great Droid Revolution. Even then, with proper instruction, it was a difficult power to master. However, this power apparently came naturally to Luke. Similarly, during the Black Fleet Crisis, Luke used the Force to rebuild Darth Vader's old fortress on Coruscant.[115] Luke would later use the Force to crush the rebuilt fortress of Darth Vader to rubble, shattering the building piece by piece and throwing it into the oceans of Coruscant.[117] During the Battle of Dantooine during the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke managed to telekinetically sustain a black hole while simultaneously flinging the dovin basals into it.[146]"

(note: the respect thread says the black hole isn't real, not sure what to make of that)

"While battling UnuThul, Luke was able to resist the combined Force power of the Colony and triumph. When UnuThul attempted to Force Push the Grand Master, Luke rooted himself with the Force so strongly that it was said that he had become the very essence of the immovable object, and that not even the black hole at the center of the galaxy could move him.[159]"

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Luke_Skywalker/Legends#Powers_and_abilities

In the Expanded Universe/Legends canon, Luke:

• fights in combat with a nanosecond reaction speed
• uses a lightsaber so fast his movements become blurred
• flings Darth Caedus (a very powerful Sith) across a room and holds him in place with no visible exertion
• uses Fold Space, a teleportation skill
• uses Electric Judgment, a "blinding tangle of energy" capable of killing a Yuuzhan Vong Slayer, warriors whose only purpose is to kill Jedi; he takes on groups of these very powerful warriors at once

He can also walk across lava, rebuild Darth Vader's entire fortress with the Force (and then destroy it), pilots the Millennium Falcon by himself (this is normally a three-person job), etc.

Plenty more here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/47ouq0/respect_grandmaster_luke_skywalker/

Flash.

How forceful is Kirby's inhaling? In the games he has to be fairly close to something to inhale it. Would Flash really let himself get that close? And if he does, what's stopping him from outrunning it? Doesn't he outrun significantly faster things all the time?

This still has a little over an hour to go and it's very close. Anybody else have anything else to discuss?

Pit.

Sounds like the Player takes it.

The other day we were talking about characters that could beat Discword Death and I realized I forgot to include Kirby on that list. Death might let himself get absorbed, and then you've got a little grim reaper running around. Whether that would even work or not is up in the air, but it's funny to think about.

Thank you for all the info!

Guess nobody cares about this one, huh?

Batman

When I give songs for these topics, I normally ask the hosts what "blind spots" they have in music and try to tailor my nominations to that. Is there any type of music you can think of that you don't know a lot about? Doesn't have to be limited to genre.

Drakeryn posted...

Batman destroys this even without prep time

he dodges gunfire, he can dodge arrows

Batman can compete with Green Arrow, a superior archer to Link. Toon Link does have more in his arsenal than arrows, I think he has elemental magic (or maybe they're elemental arrows?), but I don't see a way for him to beat Batman, who comes in with incredible reflexes and hand-to-hand combat skills.

Not voting yet in case somebody wants to make a compelling argument for Toon Link.

Aku.

Kamekguy posted...

Like, I am willing to believe that Aku would be able to hear Popeye muttering to himself about spinach (because when does Popeye NOT talk to himself) and either blow him back from the supermarket or place a sign stating that all of the spinach in the world has been recalled due to a virus. Or make evil spinach.

I like this argument. I wasn't sure how Aku would know about the spinach, but Popeye constantly talks to himself, so it totally makes sense that Aku would overhear him, then trick Popeye into giving up the spinach, then win.

Is it in Aku's character to eat the spinach himself? If he's convinced Popeye's spinach is some kind of all-powerful weapon, would he attempt to eat it himself? (He does try to use Jack's sword at one point, so he's not above stuff like that.) If he does, I could see the spinach messing with him. Spinach has been shown to give other characters Popeye-esque powers, but Aku is a creature of pure evil (literally), so I can't imagine the righteous-powered spinach sitting well with him. The spinach could then fly out of Aku's mouth and into Popeye's pipe.

This is one of the only scenarios I can see where Popeye could win, if Aku slips up and decides to eat the spinach, maybe for some sort of evil-minded "poetic justice" victory.

Can Aku read minds? I don't know if he'd necessarily assume Popeye's spinach is his trump card until Popeye uses it. If he can't read minds, he could manipulate Popeye into divulging his weaknesses (as Shonen_Bat suggests) or he could just kill him before Popeye can use the spinach. I don't know Aku super well to judge which of these scenarios are in character, which are plausible, etc.

I feel like Popeye throws Aku like a lariat at some point in all this.

Giorno.

Battler.

I don't necessarily think the Meta World has to match up with Kenshiro's home universe. I would think it would match up with the shared universe of the fight arena.

Another way I could see this going would be that Meta Battler and Meta Kenshiro observe the fight. Piece Kenshiro obliterates piece Battler in seconds, maybe less time than that even, since piece Battler is just a normal teenager. But instead of trying to make Kenshiro come up with an explanation for Kenshiro's powers, he makes Kenshiro come up with an explanation of Battler's powers, because piece Battler, against all odds, survives the attack. Battler offers the question: why can't Kenshiro kill him?

Meta Kenshiro says nuts to this and tries attacking Meta Battler but Battler dodges all his attacks (or at least tanks the damage from them) and keeps telling Kenshiro with the Red Truth that he can't kill piece Battler. The only way Kenshiro can win the match is by solving the mystery.

Battler is the type to like to have fun, so he's set things up so that Kenshiro could solve things, if Kenshiro wasn't so focused on brute force. Why can't Kenshiro kill Battler? All Kenshiro has to do is use the Blue Truth to say:

"You are already dead."

I should also mention that the "argue myself back from the dead" feat is before he even becomes the Endless Sorcerer. He's just "piece Battler" then, still existing on the Meta World but without all the absolute control he has over it under that role. Meta beings can just sort of...die and resurrect whenever they feel like it.

Here's a reference to Battler's speed having "surpassed human understanding":
https://imgur.com/zFtY9MV

That said, I'll say what I said in the Gregor fight: I don't think Kenshiro "plays by the rules" of the Meta World and instead he goes for the kill right away. But I also think Battler's speed is being undersold here, so I don't know what Kenshiro can necessarily do.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Battler isn't going to be able to argue his way out of already being dead. Kenshiro

This literally happens in Umineko!

Reposting this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/8h2ma7/respect_battler_ushiromiya_the_golden_sorcerer/

An explanation of the Meta World from the above link:
"Meta-World is the second highest reality. It resembles Rokkenjima at first until revealed by Tsubasa to be much vaster than that. This world is where all Meta-World Beings (or Meta-Beings) reside, it is known for encompassing several metaphysical worlds. In this place, all lower worlds can be viewed as a Chessboard, or they can manifest here in the form a crystal (including Fragments). In this world, concepts are meaningless to Meta-Being (even death and nonexistence). If they stop thinking, they will be die and be erased from existence but that doesn't matter, it is simply a matter of interest and concern to them. Not even a weapon that negates all concepts upon summoning can do anything to them. Furthermore, they can create concepts by simply thinking (Battler creates the concept of gravity, for example) and they are so powerful that a single action of them in this world can become reality of endless worlds."

Battler, once he becomes the Endless Sorcerer, also becomes a "Meta-World Being."

Battler has Endless Nine, a barrier that grants him complete immunity against magic (which might not help against Kenshiro but it is a thing he has).

Essentially Battler can force his opponent to engage in a battle in the Meta World, where they will duel with Blue and Red Truths, which appear as stakes that impale opponents and can only be removed when countered with logic. Battler can essentially control every component of the Meta World. If you don't buy that this would work for any reason, Battler has a Golden Longsword that was capable of destroying a hundred Theory Goats (basically brute force opponents that can literally devour multiverses). He can also create concepts, like gravity:
https://i.imgur.com/KR5iyLq.jpg

Over in Medium, I would give Maxwell (Scribblenauts) a competitive fight against Death. But we'll get there eventually. >_>

Shonen_Bat posted...

From what I've seen DEATH acts a lot differently in Soul Music than in the rest of the series. He probably could just stop someone's heart and kill them but I don't think there are many situations where he would actually do that in character. I can't imagine him making the first strike against most opponents because he'll consider them irrelevant.

Hmm. Okay.

Still voting for Death as I think he's immune to what Sera can throw at him and, as has been said, he is likely to get angry if she tries taking hostages.

Let's play a fun game: Who would you take in this contest to give Death a competitive match? My bets:
Rand
the "trapped in a video game" guy
Bigby maybe (next round could be interesting)
Freakazoid (lol)
Popeye
Aku (probably not, but it would be an interesting match as I'm not sure Death could kill Aku?)
Janet
The Flash (doesn't he literally outrun Death in canon)
And of course, other Death.

I'm not super familiar with everyone in High Tier so it's possible there may be others. Also maybe there are some weirdos in lower tiers that are equipped to deal with him, like Battler.

Here's Death in actual, you know, combat:
https://youtu.be/ZL-EhYt0Nns?t=688

Though I guess it's not really a fight, given that everyone is just sort of standing around. He shoots some sort of black energy beam at someone and makes them fall over; almost kills someone with an emptying hourglass and then stops their death by flipping the hourglass over; and waves people away in an instant.

This is actually an interesting thing I don't think anyone's brought up yet: Death claims he can remember things that haven't happened yet, that he remembers "everything."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60SNyMR2SS8&feature=youtu.be&t=9m51s

So...what's stopping him from perfectly knowing how every fight is going to go? If he foresees himself losing, can he alter that outcome? He tries me as a bit of fatalist.