Lurker > PrivateBiscuit1

So here's more images they also presented. This is why they wanted to be able to enhance and zoom in further. I have seen this dude's name thrown around, but I don't know him or care, but this illustrates the amount of scumminess going on with these images.

Comparison between both the original already enhanced one, and the further enhanced one.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1458919593355919363?s=20

Comparison between the video from a second prior and then where they've stopped their image on.

https://twitter.com/Evollove19Mac/status/1458932653831372805?s=20

They basically had this guy work like a mad man over the weekend to find a moment in this footage where, if further enhanced, it can look like Kyle is holding a rifle up because it's so much more blurry. And even then, Kyle would be holding the rifle in his opposite hand in these images too.

Imagine that the Prosecutor wants to wrongfully put someone in jail this badly he's willing to do this.

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Bump

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NFUN posted...

throwback

lmfao god damnit.

If only I knew that they frontloaded the only witnesses they had that were worth a damn.

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Welp, this is the last update on the Defense of Kyle Rittenhouse.

So Binger didn't bother going back to going after the witness' attorneys because he knew it was thin ice. But that's okay because I finally get to say one thing nice about Prosecutor Binger. The break did him good because the reporter they got was kind of a dope and just made himself look bad because he couldn't stop saying "rioter" in every answer. He didn't like Binger, and it was clear, and even though the Jury and everyone on the planet doesn't like Binger, he still came across like kind of a dope who didn't have great answers to his leading questions. It felt more like he was trying to avoid being trapped? I dunno, but good laugh half of that cross examination for Binger. A very rare W for him.

They got the visual guy from earlier in the day back on to finish up his testimony. Nothing noteworthy came of it.

So that's it then. After this, they had a big ado about letting in blurry ass over enhanced grainy drone footage. I mentioned yesterday Prosecution needed to prove that the images they wanted to bring in would be accurate, because they wanted to show them to the Jury and go "This is Kyle Rittenhouse aiming his gun before he's chased." They could not find an expert, despite the visual guy I mentioned being right there. So they went with the guy who enhanced it that works for the state. This poor asshole was grilled and demolished by the Defendant and asked repeatedly his knowledge, what happens when you use this software to zoom in. Basically, they distinctly proved that they create more pixels and an algorithm guesses what color it is. So basically, if you have an already blurry and grainy image, enhance it, and you get something even more blurry and grainy.

So after destroying this man, the big boy Prosecutor who got completely killed on cross two days ago tried to make a case and lead him into the answers he wanted, but it was clear this guy knew nothing about it but didn't want to give the wrong answers and didn't compare images and check to see if it's accurate. So the Defense then argues "This guy knows nothing and you asked them to get an expert because there's no expert to back up what they're saying, so they got this guy again."

This absolute fucking asshole Prosecutor goes "Your Honor, with all due respect I think the Defense is trying to take advantage of your lack of knowledge." And he gets all pissed off and shitty and keeps accusing the Defense of bad faith here. Absolutely unprofessional. But what's even more insane? More maddening? Eventually the Judge walks up there and has to put his face against the big TV they have to even see what he's talking about. And despite Prosecution not making any sort of convincing case, the Judge allowed it. Absolutely mind-blowing stuff. Even the Judge admitted he didn't really trust them. I cannot understand this.

But I will hear no more further bullshit about this Judge being biased. Not a single other word. I can't explain why this was let in or allowed. I'm profoundly confused. I think maybe he wanted to prove he's not biased or wanted to throw them a bone. But who cares, idiots on social media still want him to lose his job because he made a joke about he hopes his Asian food doesn't come overseas because of the shipping delays everywhere.

So they rehash this in front of the Jury so they know that this image is full of bullshit, since the Defense argued with this "expert witness" again and made the same points that the images they would be shown are absolute trash and he did no due diligence to ensure they were accurate. I posted one of the images in question that is supposed to definitely show that Kyle raised his gun before he was chased. Absolute clown shit. The only thing I can think of is the Judge is going to be like "They're going to argue this is definitive proof on their closing statement and their arguments have been absolute madness so far and the Jury will see through it." This is a hail mary among hail mary's. Imagine you're on trial for something and your innocence relied on that picture.

And that's it. They may or may not televise tomorrow's stuff, but the Jury will come back for closing arguments on Monday. They're hashing out jury instructions and other boring legal stuff in preparation for it tomorrow. No Jury will be there.

Worth noting is that the Judge was like "Okay, I'll let you go on Monday, but please for the love of god do me a favor and keep it to one hour." And the Binger talked him into letting them have two and a half hours each to talk for their closing argument. About WHAT? There is nothing to his argument at all. I don't know what he can possibly whine about for two and a half hours that the Jury won't want to smash their heads off the table to make it end. So look forward to me likely being a grumpy boy on Monday, I guess.

I don't anticipate I'll have much to say tomorrow, if it's even televised. But that's a wrap for the witnesses.

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The Prosecution fought extremely hard to get this image admitted into court that proves that Kyle Rittenhouse pointed his gun before he was being chased.



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lmao Gaige Grosskreutz is such a lying piece of shit. "Hey Grosskreutz, want to come on Good Morning America to attempt to salvage your civil case?" I loved "It was my lifelong duty to help people" when he was convicted for a violent burglary and isn't working as an EMT.

I love that it ends with "WOW, HE WASN'T POINTING HIS GUN LIKE OTHER PEOPLE SAID." He literally admitted on the stand that he did so. I'm thinking he wants to drum up stuff for a civil case against Rittenhouse.

https://youtu.be/oocNVvTHP5M

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kevwaffles posted...

I guess my "It's my first day!" joke was somehow giving this prosecutor too much credit.

Yes and no.

They just have no facts in this case and it shouldn't have gone to trial. At this point, the Prosecution is just trying their best to make the Jury do anything to convict him, but unfortunately there's nothing here they can do but appeal to emotions and try scummy tactics.

Unfortunately for him, the Judge is seeing right through all of it though, which means he's a good Judge. He's been more than fair, no matter what anyone says. It's just the Prosecution is doing so much bad faith acting he has no choice but to chastise them constantly.

So when you see Binger here acting like a total idiot, it's out of desperation, not necessarily because he actually is an idiot. Everything he does is because it's literally the best case scenario for him at this point.

It's just good to be disgusted and laugh at him because he's a Prosecutor and the majority of them are scum, and he has a particular arrogance about him and seeing him humiliate himself over this case is really satisfying.

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Rittenhouse Trial Update

The first witness Defense called was a video expert who showed the exact seconds that it took between everything. But first, Binger objected because he "made character assumptions" with video by titling them "lunge" and "strike" as though that actually means anything. This included the Judge saying "is there a reason for that face?" when Binger gave him a shitty look and literally said, "Judge, I've had your ire yesterday, so I would like to please ask that you treat both of us the same." Literally "JUDGE PLEASE STOP BULLYING ME FOR VIOLATING CONSTITUTIONAL RULES AND BLATENTLY DISREGARDING YOUR RULINGS!" And the Judge was like "I was chastising you for violating a constitutional rule that has been here for 50 years and has nothing to do with that discussion." The Judge then said, "Hey how long does it take to change the name of these video files?" "Like five minutes." "Okay then change the video file names and we'll go forward."

So the guy goes through each video to the millisecond of time it took between shots. This basically blows the fuck out of the Prosecution because he spent FOREVER talking about "Kyle, why did you decide to do this?" And presenting the slow-mo footage and trying to present that everything happened so unbelievably fast, which was important. My only criticism is that the Defense didn't make this point until AFTER the very dry testimony. Anyway, in case anyone was wondering, it was 1 second with all of the shots Kyle fired into Rosenbaum, and between the shot on Huber and the shot on Grosskuertz, it was 6.5 seconds, and overall from when Kyle was attacked to the time that Kyle had disengaged after the second set of shootings, it was only 3.5 minutes. This was pretty damaging to Binger's case.

Binger opens by questioning how much he's being paid (lol) and then this footage that he's been using all trial to make his case, he tried to discredit by asking the man who originally recorded it. It's freaking wild. He had not much of anything.

The next person was the detective who got all the bullets and Grosskuertz's gun from the second shooting. She testified all the bullets were accounted for that were shot and there were no bullets from the rifle that weren't shot, which lends to Kyle not racking the gun (like Grosskuertz has lied about and the video footage does not show him racking it at all), and to Binger's credit he got her to say that racking the gun doesn't necessarily mean that the bullet isn't used (just usually very unlikely).

And now they have a right-leaning dude who went to all the violent protests that were happening. Very well-spoken and smart, despite whatever political affiliation he has. The footage spoke for itself and his testimony was outstanding for Kyle and backed up entirely by his footage. Proved that Rosenbaum absolutely went for the gun and wasn't falling on it like the Prosecution claimed.

And then Binger comes on and tries a bunch of impotent discrediting statements and was like "OKAY BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY WERE RIOTERS?" "Because they were rioting, as clearly seen on the footage we were just watching." Like Binger was just awful here and so untrustworthy and the guy is a professional speaker. He kept trying to appeal to "He's a conservative so he's biased here." Really strange to bring up this is a political trial to the Jury when it's clear they have no evidence this should have gone to trial. And then he attempted to bring up that he hired the same law firm for a video dump that an expert retained. And the Judge got pissed, sent the jury to lunch, then was very close to reaming out Binger again because he's trying to violate attorney-client privilege laws now.

The Judge is allowing him a little rope to discuss this, and knowing Binger he's very likely to get his ass chewed out when he oversteps again. That's my prediction. But honestly, there's no bias here because a phone information dump is no big deal at all and it wasn't like he was talking with them about the lawfirm. He already testified that the Prosecution also had the videos and did nothing with them (obviously).

The Jury hates Binger. The Judge has had to send them away during his cross examinations at least five times now. He looks slimy and unreasonable and untrustworthy. There is no way the Jury has any reason to legitimately believe he's acting in good faith, especially after that miserable cross examination of Kyle yesterday.

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I expected Chris Pratt.

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What happens next is one of many series of times where Binger repeatedly tried to make Kyle say "I wanted to kill him." Before that, he repeatedly shows the video of Kyle pointing his gun at Rosenbaum when he was a bit far away, sprinting away more, then turning with Rosenbaum literally on top of him before shooting. Showing he literally didn't fire until he absolutely had to. And then he tried so many gotchas like "You pointed the gun at him!?" "But you knew he was unarmed, right, but you still shot him!? Isn't it fair to say since he had a gun pointed at him that HE was the one fearing for his life?" Objected, calls for speculation obviously. But this is the desperation we're at now. Trying to say that the poor violent pedophile who threatened to murder a 17 year old when he got him alone charging at him was just scared (even if he kept running when a gun was pointed at him). So Binger hammers on this FOREVER. It actually feels like it was an hour, doing all these gotchas. "So it's safe to say you wanted to kill him?" "I shot to defend myself because I thought he was going to take my gun and kill me with it and then go out and kill other people." And he kept going oooooon. And every answer he got was "I shot to defend myself." And then he's like "Okay, but you the bullet hit the pelvis and you kept shooting to kill him?" These shots happened literally fractions of a second apart. So after almost making Kyle cry, but he kept it together, he FINALLY moves on.

And then he tries to say Kyle didn't care he killed Rosenbaum because he ran and Kyle was like "Yeah because they were screaming get him get his ass and I was afraid for my life." And then he kept drilling Kyle, asking him why he wasn't explaining what happened to the angry mob chasing him, and that he would dare to NOT BE HONEST with the angry mob. Absolute insanity here.

And then he tries to go "Kyle, this man had a skate board, but you had an AR-15. And you were afraid he was going to kill you???" Like yes mother fucker he tried to take the gun. "But what did you think would happen if you pulled the trigger with it aimed at his chest?" "I don't know. I pulled the trigger to get him to stop attacking me." "But you knew he would die, right?" "I don't know." "SO YOU WANTED TO KILL HIM TO GET HIM TO STOP THEN, IS THAT FAIR TO SAY?" Like this dude. I swear.

And then he tried to go "Wait, why were you afraid of Grosskuertz?" "He had a pistol and he was aiming it at me and I was on the ground." "Wait, he had a pistol? And you have a big AR-15? Why would you be afraid?" "Because he had a pistol and he was aiming it at me." "BUT HE DIDN'T SHOOT YOU, DID HE?" "He jumped back at first and then aimed his gun at my head, so I shot him." "But he never shot you, right? So why did you think you had to shoot?" "Because he had a gun aimed at my head."

And here's the kicker. "Kyle, you said you wanted to be there to help people. And yet you just shot two people and you ran to the police instead of helping them. Didn't you even care?" "I was afraid for my life because I almost died and I was trying to get to the police." "But you didn't even bother to apply first aid to them, did you?"

And they closed by recounting Kyle trying to talk to the absolutely worthless police. "You said you shot someONE. You told the police you only shot one person!? Because Kyle, you shot three people that night." "...No, I said I shot someone, I shot someone. I was trying to get his attention and he maced me and told me to go home." And then he tried to say that Kyle only turned himself in because of social media finding out who he was, when he said his phone was dead and he turned himself in within an hour.

I promise you, if you've read this far and said, "What the hell? How does any of this make sense? Who is he fooling?" Imagine what the jury thinks. Do you think a single person on this Jury buys ANY of this insane bullshit? People who were there said that the jury just looked so annoyed and pissed off and didn't even take any further notes on anything for the longest time during this.

Binger completely fucking failed to get a single admission out of Kyle here. He is a loser who got schooled by a prepped seventeen year old when this should have been a slam dunk for him. They didn't bother to hit Kyle with a re-direct, likely because they don't want to give Binger another attempt to slime his way into something on a re-cross.

This was still a mistake to put him on the stand, I think. It wasn't really necessary to bring Kyle on and not a ton was learned from him. I think they just felt so confident that they wanted to have Kyle stand there and maintain his innocence. And he did. He did a phenomenal job, honestly. I think this also has the Jury firmly entrenched in the "Fuck you Binger" mode for having to sit through literal hours of the worst lines of questioning you've ever heard and this smug prick thinking they are so stupid to buy these idiotic accusations.

Defense continues tomorrow. Binger should be disbarred.

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Whew. Okay. Just finished work.

So Rittenhouse Updates

So when they came back from break, the Defense rightfully said they were filing a Motion for Mistrial, citing that they felt that Prosecutor Binger was purposefully trying to make a mistrial happen so they can get another chance to prosecute Rittenhouse later with all the stink of this trial behind him. It makes sense. They fucked up so badly. I don't know if that's the case though. So they want it to be a Mistrial Without Prejudice, which means it can't be put back on trial.

So Binger launches into some kind of rant trying to justify his actions. If you're in the legal field, you know this mother fucker is lying out of his ass. It basically amounts to "I'm acting in good faith, I promise!" And the Judge said verbatim, "I don't believe you were acting in good faith." Literally told this attorney that he doesn't trust him, outright. Hey, guess what you NEVER EVER want to happen in a trial? For the Judge to catch on that you are not acting in good faith at all. Even worse, Binger keeps arguing and interrupting the Judge. For those not in the know, you are always to be nice to the Judge, be polite, be kind, and always laugh at their jokes no matter how bad they are. Because they run this case, they have a weight trying to maintain order. And Binger just completely disrespected him.

To elaborate on the Judge's motion rule not allowing any information from before the trial, what Binger tried to justify was bringing up that Kyle said he wanted to kill rioters or whatever at that bar, and he tried to claim that since Kyle spoke in an interview once about his family, not about this incident or anything, that it opened the door to broach that subject. Anyone with a brain could see right through it. He's a piece of shit. No attorney should respect him. Be wary of any who back him up in this.

So they go back to questioning. I'll kind of summarize it because it was intensely repetitive. He kept trying to catch Kyle up in gun possession laws and his knowledge of EMT certification and Kyle perfectly retorted and seemed to know a hell of a lot more about it than Binger did (not surprising). I don't necessarily know he's guilty of gun charge either. It's a goofy rule that's being contested.

He kept trying to catch Kyle and asking him questions about why he felt he needed a gun. He kept trying to posit it as though nobody in the whole wide world would want to hurt a man who is peacefully walking around, even though that was the fucking reality. This went nowhere. It was so weird. I think he wanted to catch him saying he expected to shoot someone, but he was prepped so damn well he fell for none of Binger's traps.

And then Binger's footage he got literally on Sunday that they zoomed in and slowed down, he tried another gotcha with Kyle by claiming he held his gun up to Rosenbaum's friend when they ambushed him because Kyle never said he did so. He wanted to ZOOM IN EVEN CLOSER on an already grainy, zoomed in footage. The Defense shut this shit down immediately and the Jury was dismissed again. So remember the detective who modified the footage? Well the Defense got him to testify that zooming in distorts the image, because the AI has to populate the rest of the pixels with what it thinks. So they used that to justify that if they zoom in any further by pinching and expanding (like you do on your phone) that it's going to make the picture even less authentic. And Binger didn't bother to get this authenticated before either, really.

So Binger tried to say "NO NO IT'S THE SAME! WE ALL HAVE CELL PHONES! IT'S JUST LIKE THAT! IF YOU HAVE A MAGNIFYING GLASS IT'S EXACTLY LIKE THAT!" Except he was lying, and it doesn't work like that. And it will distort the image even further because Binger is a bullshitter. Multiple people with knowledge have said that by now. I'll go ahead and tell you what he wanted to do. He wanted to show a grainy image you can barely see, have Kyle look at it, make it even more incomprehensible, and then put into the Jury's mind that Kyle was holding up a gun first and then they look at this mess of pixels and go "Oh maybe I do see it now." Complete manipulation.

The Judge admitted to not knowing much about technology, but said they can't just allow this without having some kind of expert, since they didn't have an expert testify about the authentication of it in the first place. So the Judge told him if he can get an expert, he'll let it happen. "I guess if you can get him in a few minutes, sure." SPOILERS: There is not an expert alive who will back up the bullshit claim Binger wanted to make.

They came back and then Binger continued to argue over this like a total jackass and then the Judge said, "I know that's what you're saying, BUT I DON'T TRUST YOU." Hey maybe don't kill all of your good faith with the Judge you slimy asshole. And then they're about to begin and Binger goes, "Okay so if I'm understanding right, you said I can zoom in and then get the expert later." THIS WAS SO CLEAR YOU IDIOT. The Judge balks and says no.

So what is the result of this? Binger shows this grainy video where you can barely make out Kyle at all. I tried to look hard to see what he was talking about and could barely make out Kyle at all. He showed this to the Jury. Then he MADE KYLE GET UP AND PUT HIS NOSE TO THE TV SCREEN AND TRY TO SEE IT. I shit you not, he's just like "I can't really make out anything." Of course he can't. The Jury can't. So Binger looks like a stupid piece of shit wasting their time.

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@UshiromiyaEva

Man the impressions on social media are so insanely different than Biscuit's breakdown (which I trust).

All I'm seeing is how the judge interrupted the prosecution during a cross examination to ask if they should adjust the temperature, and that his phone went off with a Donald Trump ring tone in the middle of trial.

Public perception is going to be absolutely catastrophic since all anyone cares about is soundbites, and soundbites are painting a very, very different picture than the actual breakdown.

Yeah, the media has been horrific during this. The "legal experts" they put on there are just... insane to me. Clearly just grifting. I'm trying to be as honest as I can be about this. But anyone acting like the Prosecution has done a good job here... I'm sorry, it's just not true. Nothing about this case is leaning on their side.

@LordoftheMorons

Didn't know this was a thing and before you mentioned it I wondered if the prosecutor was purposefully trying to trigger a mistrial because things were going so badly for him

This was what the Defense said when they argued to put a Motion out. I don't know how true it is, but public opinion would absolutely unfairly land on the side of Kyle being guilty if it got hit with a mistrial, which is probably why the Judge is trying so hard to avoid it. Which is very obviously an unfair take to have after seeing how it's been playing out.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

All good points! I guess my gut reaction is that if you say you want to shooter rioters, then bring a gun to an area you know there will likely be rioters, it isn't necessarily immaterial to the case.

I would also think past violent behavior is something the jury should be informed of as well! Especially if part of the defense's case is that these people acted violently first and caused the shooting.

I guess I'm just confused. If someone is on trial for beating their spouse, can the prosecution really not bring up the fact that they were abusive in two past relationships? It seems like if the defense here wants to argue that these two people acted violently, a history of them acting violently is something the jury should be aware of, no?

I'm clearly not a lawyer.

This is different. Kyle doesn't have a history of gun violence. If he did, it could be used.

But this is all information that does not apply to the case, and they are trying to have a fair trial based on the facts of that night.

Dancedreamer posted...

Also, I feel like the McMichael/Bryan trial should be getting way more coverage than the Rittenhouse trial. Yet, everyone's focused on Rittenhouse. Maybe it's an obvious case that should have an obvious outcome, but in this country that never feels so certain anymore. And a man was murdered by three men who decided to play vigilante, and then tried to claim self defense. Everyone's eyes should be on that trial. Just as it was during the Chauvin trial.

I think it's because it's a lot more clear cut, is why it isn't getting as much attention.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Huh. That seems like something it would be reasonable for the jury to know about.

This was argued in motions prior. This isn't helping just Kyle Rittenhouse. This is based on inconclusive evidence of him saying that in video, and they are deeming everything said and done should not be relevant if it didn't happen that day and didn't directly relate to what happened.

If they bring up Kyle Rittenhouse said that, then they're allowed to bring up that Rosenbaum is a violent convicted pedophile sociopath that beats his girlfriend and was locked up in a mental hospital for being violent just a day prior.

And they need to allow Huber's past where he was a sociopath that held his brother at knife point and threatened him, choked out his sister for ten seconds, and threatening to kill his grandmother, along with other sadistic shit he plead guilty to.

And then they can bring up that Grosskuertz was fired from being an EMT because he was a violent burglar, and not this brave soul who really cared about his EMT career.

This was more than fair, and Binger has tried to open this door three times now, and he knows he shouldn't be without specifically asking the Judge first before the Jury can hear it.

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Rittenhouse trial update

They're on lunch because the Judge is so disgusted.

So the Defense brought in Grosskuertz's friend who said Grosskuertz wanted to unload his entire gun into Kyle. He predictably claimed Grosskuertz never said that and he was just trying to defend him online. This was fine. It meant next to nothing. It was mostly to get it admitted into evidence in front of the Jury.

Then the Defense brought in the Indian brother who ran the car lot again, showed a video of him lying about how much damage there was at his car lot, and this didn't mean a lot. It was clear he was originally lying. He had a reason prepared to try justifying it. He's an idiot. It was just to discredit him further.

And then they put Kyle on the stand which I thought was madness but this Prosecution is so incompetent it's actually no big deal.

Kyle Rittenhouse was completely reasonable, explained things clearly, and was very believable. He broke out in hysterics, having a panic attack after starting to talk about Rosenbaum and his asshole idiot friendly cornering him with Rosenberg's friend holding a pistol. Rosenbaum directly threatened him saying "I'm going to fucking kill you when you're alone." Directly to him.

So after they take a break because he literally couldn't even speak, he came back and continued his testimony. He said after he shot Rosenbaum, people were screaming to get his ass and stuff, so he was in constant fear for his life. And then he was prepped very well and testified he only shot when he felt he was in danger of death, and all the footage and testimony reflects that.

The cross examination was the big deal here. And the Prosecutor was such a complete asshole the whole time. Like, aggressive with the witness because he's not reading the room right at all and is likely excited and pissed off. He asked Kyle a bunch of questions and Kyle is actively correcting him on gun laws and telling him about gun laws in Illinois as well, and Kyle gave great answers overall.

And then the Prosecutor, Binger, proceeds to tell Kyle Rittenhouse that he didn't speak until now and tried to paint it as cowardice or hiding something. The Judge dismissed everyone because this is a MASSIVE VIOLATION OF THE LAW. Binger is a seasoned Prosecutor and he knows very well that Kyle has fifth amendment rights and used them. And he tried to paint it as him being a coward to paint the Jury. The Judge told Binger that he was being unethical and that this could be sent for mistrial.

Bizarrely, when they came back Binger also tried to hit Kyle with claims of HE WAS VIOLENT BECAUSE OF VIDEO GAMES. I shit you not, he spent minutes talking about Call of Duty and Kyle was just like "Yeah but video games aren't real life." Binger looks like such a complete piece of shit, slimy asshole by this point. He also showed Kyle's terrible TikTok account name, 4doorsmorewhores, which he may actually deserve to go to jail for. I should say that the Defense prepped him for cross examination INCREDIBLY well. Major props to them.

And then Binger makes Kyle list all the things he can't use his gun for, and then he tries to bring up the comments that Kyle made before this about wanting to shoot rioters. The Judge immediately shut it down and sent them back. Binger CANNOT DO THIS because they ruled nothing from anyone's past can be used in this trial aside from that day. And the Defense has been reasonable about it but Binger tried to do this THREE TIMES already and the Judge warned him every time. So he knew he couldn't just do this. And this is overtly undermining the Judge and he said it to get it in the Jury's mind. Binger tried to argue and act smug and shitty with the Judge and the Judge, rightfully, told him right the fuck out. He can be disbarred for all of this he's done today. The Judge was having none of it. He gave him a final warning. This can be mistrialed and the Defense said if they do it again they're going to move for mistrial with prejudice (meaning it cannot ever be tried again) and then the Judge said he would absolutely grant it.

Binger continues to flounder and fail to get Kyle on literally anything. Just being spanked by this kid on the rules and what was going on. And then eventually he spent forever about bullets, with Binger outright saying that hollow point bullets cannot go through a target, implying Kyle should have used hollow point bullets. The Judge stopped Binger and told the jury "hollow point bullets can go through targets, you are misleading this jury" and then he sent everyone to lunch.

Binger should be disbarred for this. Completely unprofessional and unconstitutional behavior. I doubt he will be because lol the system we have in place to prevent a punishment for this.

This feels like it's playing to make the Judge look unreasonable to people, but his outrage was more than reasonable. This fucking prick is the slimiest piece of shit.

I have no idea what happens from here. The only thing I can predict is that Binger will continue to provide the most impotent cross examination against a witness they should be burying into the ground right now. I can't say if he does anything to force a mistrial though.

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Prosecution is so fucking bad and desperate and they have completely fucked up cross.

And now he has almost triggered a mistrial twice. This Prosecutor is a fucking dipshit. Disbar this asshole.

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Rittenhouse just had a full on fucking breakdown in court, sobbing and hyperventilating as he recounted Rosenbaum and his friend cornering him and trying to kill him. Court is on break. I'll give a more full summary later.

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They put Rittenhouse on the stand.

I have no idea why they would ever do this. This seems like a monumental mistake.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Based on what you've said, I'm willing to admit it's a possibility. Even if it is though, that's still absurdly frustrating! A teenage edgelord was allowed access to a rifle, and the crime he committed - even if it was in self-defense - is going to be glorified by alt-right people. The week after he inevitably gets off is not going to be a fun one. He might just be an idiot instead of a wannabee vigilante, but his idiocy is going to embolden people who already salivate at the notion of murdering people they don't like.

I agree with this as well. The whole situation sucks a lot. He's definitely going to be celebrated, but I get the vibe he just wants to lay low and not make a big deal out of it. This whole thing is a harrowing experience and he's been visibly uncomfortable and disturbed many, many times during the trial as he relives this (despite people making a big deal of him yawning when he probably just didn't get a good night's sleep over this). I don't know that he wants to be celebrated as some hero because I'm sure he understands his life gets impossibly difficult from here out as well.

I don't know it's going to embolden people who want to kill people, but I'll say I hope it doesn't. I think unfortunately time will only tell if it gets to this point.

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Paratroopa1 posted...

No, your writeups have changed my mind pretty considerably. Even in the court of public opinion I can't really charge Kyle Rittenhouse with anything other than being an idiot

Thanks Para.

I'm glad people are getting something out of the write ups for this trial. I'll keep at it until it's over (which should be at the end of the week).

Kenri posted...

My take on the case is "none of these fucking people should have had access to guns (also the police are corrupt)"

In other words, standard USA horseshit

I pretty much agree with this as well.

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KamikazePotato posted...

People have already commented. Further explanations that the prosecution failed (and probably never had a case to begin with) aren't going to change those comments, and you're in the wrong place if you want people to sympathize with someone who blatantly put themselves in a position so they could kill someone, and did in fact kill someone.

My only thing is that this seems to stem from him saying some edgelord shit to sound cool to his friends about wanting to kill people, and he's a seventeen year old dip shit. We all said stupid shit to look cool when we were that young.

When in reality, when he was there with a gun, he didn't antagonize anyone, didn't respond to anyone trying to antagonize him, was literally invited there to actually stand watch (with a vague promise of money that never surfaced), tried his best to stay out of a position where he could get in any trouble and be forced to defend himself, just walked around shouting medic and that he was friendly, literally chose not to shoot Grosskuertz when he threw his hands up in the air to surrender and then only shot him when Grosskuertz tried to surprise shoot him in the head after, showed genuine remorse and worry that his life was over after shooting and not celebrating his kills like a nut, and immediately tried to turn himself in before the cops maced him and told him to fuck off.

There's nothing that night that indicates he put himself in a position to kill someone, and he didn't seem happy about having killed anyone after the fact.

I've literally been looking for anything that he did that indicates he wanted to start something or was happy to have started something that night, but so far there's been absolutely nothing. I think it's far more likely he was trying to say tough shit to look cool because he's a dumb ass child than it is that he legitimately wanted to be attacked so he could legally shoot people. Is anyone at least willing to admit that could possibly be the case?

That said, it was absolutely fucking stupid for him to even go out there in the first place. But I think that he's just guilty of being an idiot, not of being some wannabe vigilante. I feel like people's minds are made up about that though, so I'm not going to bother convincing anyone after this.

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Peace___Frog posted...

Thanks for all the write ups, Biscuit. I would have been extremely ignorant of all of this without you, and didn't even know the trial was going on until you began posting about it.

You're welcome! I find a lot of trials interesting like these! Unfortunately I missed out on the George Floyd trial.

There's a frankly bizarre mainstream media spin that's happening that I'm constantly floored by each time I see a new article because it's like they aren't even watching the same trial.

These are just my opinions and readings of it, but I'm finding that a lot of people with a legal background are echoing the same thoughts, regardless of their politics.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Their employer is the municipal government. The general population doesn't employee the police, the municipality does because they need a force to stop people from messing with society. Government is a business, selling us services like infrastructure/police/fire and medical care in countries that aren't stupid. We pay for those services with taxes. In this relationship, we are the customer, not the business owner.

And 99% of the time these days, unions prevent companies from punishing employees that are useless and/or malicious and deserve to be fired/demoted/whatever

Who are police supposed to serve?

Who does the police union protect the police from?

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Tl;Dr of police unions:

Regular unions protect employees from punishment from employer.

Police unions protect police when they unfairly punish citizens, who pay for the police with tax money, which funds them to keep them employed.

Police unions actively protect police from accountability when they are not fairly serving the citizens. You can say it boils down to "protecting them from doing a crappy job" but other unions protect against the employer. Police unions do not protect against the employer--because it's the citizens.

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Xeybozn posted...

What do you mean "supposed to be"? Has it ever occurred to you that the majority of people might want the police to commit random acts of violence against minorities and the poor?

You mean rich people. Because that's why they rig the union and elections in their favor with their funding and politicking. That's a part of the problem.

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End of Rittenhouse Trial Stuff Today

The Prosecution could not find any official actually binding curfew order, so the curfew charge has been dropped for Kyle Rittenhouse.

The Prosecution rested their case after a few final questions to their last witness. I cannot believe this is the Prosecution's entire case. There was NOTHING here to justify things. But it got so much worse.

The Prosecution brought on some guy who worked at the car lot and he said those Indian brothers who ran it and completely contradicted everything they said. He said they were asked to be there (Kyle included) and the one brother drove them there and he said Kyle wasn't starting any trouble or anything. Prosecution cross was pretty solid here. They established that the guy didn't feel terribly unsafe. But Defense came back and asked if he was attacked, threatened, chased, etc. So it's a bit moot. Those Indian brothers are going to get their asses sued.

Then they got some old lady who was watching the car lot as well. She maintained that Kyle didn't try to start anything and that Rosenbaum was shouting racist stuff and throwing things at them, told them he was going to cut their hearts out, and was trying to get them to come after him, saying he was "bitchy". She also testified that after Kyle fired the shots, he came back to the car lot and said "I was attacked. I had to shoot. My life is over now." This doesn't sound like a kid who was out there looking to murder people. I don't care what edgelord shit he says to his friends to sound cool, there is nothing that night that indicates he wanted to actually shoot his gun or started trouble, and everything indicates he didn't actually want this to happen. Then they all abandoned the car lot to escape and Kyle went to turn himself in after that (in which he was maced and told to fuck off by the police).

Prosecutor tried to catch her in some issues and she just told him off and emasculated him. Literally went "The FBI Investigator said that you told him this..." "I didn't say that. I remember that conversation vividly and I didn't say that at all." And then the Prosecutor just shrinks and moves five pages to get to his next point.

And then this is where it all went somehow even worse for the Prosecution.

They brought on some guy who seemed like he had autism who was taking pictures and was there for the second set of shootings. And he was a solid witness and then the Defense asks about when he gave a statement to the Prosecutor. He said that they asked him to change his statement and he felt very uncomfortable.

So the Prosecutor comes up there on cross and then goes in on this dude, saying "So we showed you a video to refresh your memory and asked if you remember anything else. But we never asked you to change your statement, right?" "Yes you did." "Is it possible you misheard us?" "No, you were very clear." And then he goes "Hey, but you remember when you came in I was really nice and told you that you were a great photographer, right?" "Yes, before you asked me to change my statement." And so this fucking Prosecutor starts just being such an unrelenting asshole to him, trying everything he can to discredit him and getting shitty because his answers are "I didn't mention this in my statement because I didn't know it was important. And I didn't tell anyone this because I didn't think it was important. I'm sorry I didn't say it, but I didn't know what you considered important."

Just absolute fucking corruption here. They tried to run this investigation illegitimately. Completely disgusting, and whatever political spectrum you're on, you need to be completely fucked off that this trial happened, and that the prosecution was willing to try and rig it however they could to throw an innocent boy in jail. I don't care if you think he's a white supremacist, as far as I understand that's not far off. The Prosecution here tried to rig our system.

After getting completely furious and shitty with this kind person with autism and accusing him of only testifying to shill his photography career (in which someone else is just selling his photos on his behalf and he has a different career), Defense just asked him about how they never asked him to change his statement. Unbelievable. Go out of your way to watch this part to see how obscenely shitty this Prosecution is. Fire all of them. Completely pieces of trash.

They brought on their last witness for the day who got video from a distance of the shooting and he was there to say the Prosecution never asked him to testify even though he had a clear view of what happened (because they didn't want his testimony because it hurt their case).

Fuck the prosecution. Fuck the Kenosha police. CORRUPTION. This case is fucking over. There's no way a soul on that jury watches them try to go after that photographer who outright shows that they were corrupt and convicts Rittenhouse of anything.

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Speaking of our police system...

In the Rittenhouse trial, the Prosecution just got fucking annihilated and exposed for trying to get someone to change their statement during investigation. Literally said "We never asked you to change your statement, right?" "Yes you did." "Is it possible you misheard us?" "No, you were extremely clear." Absolutely fucking disgusting behavior. Throw the entire prosecution and the Kenosha police in the fucking trash.

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Oh hey curfew charge dismissed because Prosecution couldn't find a legitimate legally binding curfew order. Judge gave them a chance on lunch to present something and they didn't.

So why the fuck was he charged with it?

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Wouldn't the curfew charge also apply to the other people involved?

At any rate, it's good to see there's some semblance of justice, despite the MSM best efforts to subvert it. I don't agree with Rittenhouse's politics, or his (admittedly par for the course) American style of gun fetishism, but it was clear from the day it happened that he CLEARLY acted in self defense against a bunch of violent rioters.

Hope the admins and "ACAB" crew on the Board 8 discord are absolutely losing their shit right now given their absolute hard on for the people supporting the BLM riots last year.

It should apply to everyone who was there, and there's an argument they didn't apply it to ANYONE. There's other weirdness like Grosskuertz that didn't get charged for it and his gun charges were all dropped too.

I know it's a case of "Yeah but," but there's a lot of evidence the officers didn't attempt to enforce the curfew at all.

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Rittenhouse Trial Update

Ahead of today's proceedings, the Judge denied a Motion to Dismiss regarding the possession charge. So I'm not sure how people can possibly say this Judge is biased at all.

The first witness was just a bore. He put together slowed down video he put together on Sunday for the Prosecution and... I guess they just wanted to show slow-mo version of Kyle shooting Rosenbaum? It was pretty inconsequential.

The next took up the majority of the time and he was a Forensic Examiner. He didn't help Prosecution at all and he proved that Rosenbaum's hand was reaching out to grab the rifle, despite Prosecution's best efforts to not get that answer. So basically, he was brought in to show gross pictures to the Jury and then... just helped the Defense say that Kyle's weapon was about to be grabbed before he shot.

It's lunch time and they asked for the curfew charge to be dropped, which is reasonable tbh but it's such an inconsequential charge. The Judge said he'll consider it, or allow the Prosecution to have a chance to provide proof he violated it. Supposedly there was no actual punishable curfew set up. I'm not sure the details. But no officers enforced it so it's difficult. They also plan to do more Motion to Dismiss charges, so we'll see how those go.

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Rittenhouse Trial done for the day

This should never have gone to trial.

They ruled that they could ask Grossguertz about that exchange but he denied everything, continued to deny everything, and the Defense just continued to shred any credibility he had before straight up asking him, "So you agree that Kyle Rittenhouse did not fire at you until after you put your arms down, advanced on him, and put a gun to his head?" And Grossguertz agreed. That should be it. This should be over. Completely asinine.

They had a woman with a very unfortunate cadence speaking for ballistics that proved... Kyle shot the gun. No point.

Another officer came up and then was just the most incompetent fucker, who outright said Kyle wasn't a threat and he just maced him to go away. And he continues to say he couldn't hear Kyle, but he thought he said someone was shot, but also said he wasn't listening to his orders. Our police officers, ladies and gentlemen.

They brought on another reporter who outright said Kyle and his group weren't threatening at all and that Kyle didn't rush to any danger and he just asked people for medical help. I cannot believe the prosecution brought this guy on. They wanted him to say militia but he just... didn't.

And then they brought on the detective who lord in heaven if you ever have a detective like this investigating something you should feel bad. It felt like an SNL skit where it was shady for the testimony and then on cross he just made him look like a complete imbecile, and they admitted to filing a complaint before they completed investigation, and he didn't look at any video footage on a computer he just said he watched it on his phone, and they purposefully went out of their way to not get Grossgaertz's phone, even though they knew he was recording it and they thought his statement didn't line up with what was said. And then walked him through everything like "Okay, so you clearly see that Kyle wasn't chasing anyone, right?" And pointing out that everyone else had attacked him, to just show they never should have filed this case. Suddenly the Prosecutor was very interested in objecting when it was his department's investigation coming into question.

This is an indictment of the police system at this point. They fucked up so hard so many times and their investigation was so shady. They didn't have enough to make a case but still did.

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Rittenhouse Trial update

So they had Grosskreutz on the stand, the guy who got his arm shot.

The Prosecution put him on and it was a pretty solid testimony. He went and said that he went after Kyle because he thought he said he was working for the police, which was... weird. But Prosecution tried to say Kyle wasn't there as a medic because he didn't change gloves, using Grosskreutz's history as an EMT. And then Grosskreutz said he would never shoot to kill Kyle because he doesn't believe in taking a life. And oddly, he Grosskreutz said that he saw Rosenbaum hurt and was there as a medic, but instead went to chase Kyle when he was heading with the police? He also had his gun illegally and wasn't from Kenosha.

And then Defense came in and then immediately said "You testified you had a gun, right? So why did you tell the police that you didn't have a gun at the time, and continued to maintain that immediately after this?" And then they mentioned that he has a $10 million lawsuit against the Kenosha police, in which he continued to maintain he didn't have a gun at the time. And then established that Grosskreutz had a significantly better chance of winning his lawsuit if Kyle went to jail.

And then he continued to say he wasn't chasing Kyle. He was just running the same direction, but not chasing him, with a gun (which he lied about having out during the chase). And then he said he never aimed a gun at Kyle, and he only ever surrendered. And then they showed the picture of Grosskreutz holding the gun to Kyle's head right before he fired. And then he said in his EMT experience, hitting Kyle in the head with a skateboard is head trauma and could seriously severely injure someone.

Then he was Tweeting three days ago with winky emojis talking shit about Kyle's gun malfunctioning, and they showed it in court.

And they went on break, but they have Grosskreutz admitting he had no regrets that night. But they want to admit his friend posting that Grosskreutz says he regrets not unloading his gun into Kyle before he was shot.

This is the clearest self-defense. I can't even believe it. I thought Grosskreutz would be a good witness but he lied his ass off and got caught out in so much evidence, and they've established he's a fucking liar clearly and that Kyle was in reasonable fear for his life. And they probably destroyed his civil suit as well, so he's likely not getting any money from that.

If the manslaughter and murder charges aren't dismissed prior to jury decision. I don't know how you bring this witness on, knowing all the other information, and not drop this case entirely. The Defense did a phenomenal job so far dismantling Grosskreutz's testimony.

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It's stupid, but I used the a-okay symbol pretty regularly before people started saying it was a hate symbol. Since then I've kind of curbed my usage of it.

I'm pretty sure it originated from 4chan wanting to convince people it was a hate symbol, and they actually succeeded.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

And while I agree with this, there has to be a point where you can't have the clear intent to create the situation for yourself.

See, I know about Kyle saying shitty edgelord shit about wanting to kill people, but I'm not entirely convinced he intended to put himself in a situation where he'd actually want to kill anyone. And I know that wasn't admitted into the trial because they're trying to keep ALL character stuff out of the trial before that night (and despite what the media is trying to say, this is completely fair judging by the character information they had from the victims in this).

Kyle didn't provoke a single person that night. All he did was stand around, watching a car lot. In which he was asked to watch over, but the witness they brought on that asked him lied on the stand pretty clearly, contradicting himself constantly, because if he admits that he asked people to watch over his car lot with guns, the insurance company will sue the fuck out of them for insurance fraud. And when Kyle was walking around, he wasn't picking fights, he wasn't saying anything shitty, and he was asking people if they needed medical help, be it protestors, rioters, or people there trying to defend.

There hasn't been a single bit of evidence that night that Kyle was out there to provoke a situation where he'd have to fire his weapon on someone, and if they had ANY evidence of that by now, it would have been presented. But the people who spent all night around him were all saying he didn't provoke anything.

The only evidence that started off Kyle firing that night is Rosenbaum acting like a fucking lunatic all night, asking people to shoot him, destroying stuff, and directly threatening Kyle's group that if he sees one of them alone, he's going to kill them. And then he waited until Kyle was alone, ambushed him, and he attacked him, and Kyle did not fire a single shot until Rosenbaum tried to take his gun away from him. And if Kyle was carrying a machete, it doesn't matter. Rosenbaum tried to take his weapon and he died.

The situation is that nobody should have been there. The thing that made it so dangerous wasn't Rittenhouse carrying a gun--the police testified that most of the people they talked to were carrying guns, and that they heard gun shots literally the whole night. People recklessly shooting all night, and violent crazy people trying to fight people made this happen.

If Rosenbaum didn't attack Kyle, he was going to attack someone else. He would have been shot no matter who he attacked, or he may have killed someone else if he was successful. Kyle did nothing but be there at the wrong time. This isn't a case of someone seeing a crime and running up and trying to kill someone over it like you tried to explain it is. There is just no evidence, that night, of Kyle trying to bring any further danger into the situation. And every single person there with Kyle that night testified that they had their guns as a deterrent and nothing more, and as a last resort to defend themselves.

That said, Kyle is still a shitty little edgelord, and from what I have gathered, a white supremacist piece of shit. But there's nothing that we've seen so far that implies Kyle was trying to find a reason to shoot his weapon, provoking conflict, or putting himself into danger any more than any other person who was there that night. If existing there with a gun to defend yourself was a crime, then by the police officer's testimony, the majority of people there were also trying to provoke conflict.

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Caught up on I Know What You Did Last Summer TV show. It's still extremely good! I'll do a review when it's done! Big recommend so far! Hoping they stick the ending!

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Grossgaertz, the guy who got shot in the arm, is going to be the lynchpin for the prosecution here on Monday. I just don't foresee it going well for him though. Self-defense is probably going to apply in this case because he has to testify that he had a gun at Rittenhouse's head and was going to fire if Rittenhouse didn't fire first. And they already have testimony from one guy earlier who had taken Grossgaertz's gun and removed the bullets and testified that it was ready to fire. I just don't know there's anything there that makes it strong enough to say Rittenhouse wasn't acting in self-defense in that case too, especially when the officers and everyone have said the entire situation all night was terrible and everyone had deadly weapons.

I anticipate that a Motion to Dismiss will be filed by Defense and the Judge is likely to dismiss all of the manslaughter, murder, and attempted murder charges. He may also just dismiss the reckless endangerment charges as well.

I think the reckless charge with Rosenbaum will be dismissed because the reporter who was behind him testified no bullets went past Rosenbaum. Prosecution has said that the bullets can penetrate a body, but coupled with the self-defense, I don't know that will land.

The second reckless charge where he was attacked by the two guys might stick though since he fired two shots when he was knocked down. But it's hard to say at that point.

I think the possession charge sticks though, but that's the least important one.

I think political pressure made them go forward with this case, because Prosecution had to know how hard this would be when they got all the facts. I wouldn't have guessed it would turn out like this.

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

With as many mass shootings as happen in our country if I see a dude walking around at a crowded event with an assault rifle how can you blame someone for auto-attacking them for their own and everyone elses safety.

The testimony made it very clear that Rosenbaum did not attack Rittenhouse for his safety or anyone else's safety.

He was a violent lunatic who was threatening people all night and then outright told Kyle and the people with him that he was going to kill them if he got one of them alone. And then he purposefully ambushed Rittenhouse when he was alone. This is after all video footage leading up to this has Rittenhouse asking people if they need medical help and saying that he's friendly. There wasn't anything noble about Rosenbaum that night. The dude was a piece of shit.

We don't have a ton of testimony about Huber, the other man who died, on that night. But judging by his character according to court records, it does not seem likely he was also acting in a noble manner to protect people either.

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Binger, the lead prosecutor, also wanted to run for office.

I don't think he'll be running for office now.

I have never seen a man look more defeated than he did the entire day.

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Final update for today's Rittenhouse trial.

That brother who was supposedly the inventory manager at this car place Kyle was protecting basically got destroyed. He was lying, constantly, and Defense just made it clear his entire testimony was bullshit, including bringing out an email he had sent where he talked about how will be accountable if their cars get demolished, but not those in repair. It's clear they asked the group Kyle was with to protect their business. His family probably gets sued after this.

And then they brought in an officer who said "I wasn't there and all I did was pick up bullets, and we found EVEN MORE BULLETS than just Kyle's." I have no idea why Prosecution brought this man on. Just hurts their case more.

And then they brought on the officer who swabbed Kyle's gun. He admits to half assing it and saying that he knew nothing about the case, nobody told him anything about it, nobody followed up with him, nobody told him where to swab it, and he had no reason to think he should swab the parts of the gun that were grabbed. Prosecution brought this person on for reasons I don't know.

And then finally they brought the officer who Kyle tried to turn himself into. Who he admits that the majority of people there that night were armed with weapons, that they heard gun shots the entire night which is why they thought nothing of Kyle trying to turn himself in and let him keep walking, and that the situation was so unsafe they couldn't attempt to go in and stop an active shooting situation because they were unequipped. I cannot believe Prosecution brought this man on and let him say anything like this. And then the cop lied about what happened when Kyle tried to turn himself in, stating that he didn't have his hands up and didn't listen to instructions he never said, and that they thought he was trying to get into a truck, and that THE MAN TURNING HIMSELF IN FOR A SHOOTING WAS NOT A PRIORITY FOR THEM RIGHT NOW. He was watching the video and actively lied about what was happening in the video as he watched it.

This Prosecution is in complete shambles. After today, I think it's clear their case is extremely weak. I think Rittenhouse is found not guilty for the murders.

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HeroicCrono posted...

Sounds like the prosecution just has a bad case but not enough courage to drop the charges. So they'll let the jury find him not guilty rather than take enormous public backlash if they just dropped the charges. They can probably convict on him not being supposed to have a gun so they can spin it as a mixed verdict.

Short update: Every single witness after this has been terrible too, and the police were so unbelievably incompetent through the whole night and the investigation.

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Another Rittenhouse trial break.

So Huber is also a violent crazy person as well. Because I get what the argument was concerning Huber's aunt. They wanted her to present testimony that he was a peaceful young man. But Defense has court evidence that Huber had threatened to murder his brother and burn his house down if he didn't clean up the house, strangled his sister, and threatened to kill his grandmother and gut her like a pig, among other dark and sick shit, and he was dragging a kitchen knife and a butcher blade along his brother's stomach, chest, neck, and ears. He pled guilty to all of that. So the Judge said he would allow the Prosecution to ask these questions, but he'd also let the Defense ask her if she knows anything about this incident.

So the Prosecution declined to ask her for any further character information. This blows up the image they wanted to present that Huber was a brave hero who just wanted to protect people that night.

Then they got Rosenbaum's girlfriend on the stand and the Prosecution clearly truncated their questions, because they knew that the Judge would allow many other questions on Rosenbaum's past. The Defense went very easy on it though. Prosecution could only establish he had an empty bottle (which means... nothing?) and Defense established that he was on bipolar medication, and had other mental issues. I expect they just didn't go too hard because she was likely still grieving, but this wasn't a glowing character witness for Prosecution.

And then they brought in a dude who took a picture with Kyle and the crew that came there. He had absolutely nothing of value to add and was a complete idiot. Embarrassing witness to call. Defense didn't even bother to remember his name, he was so inconsequential.

They brought his brother who was actually managing the car lot that Kyle and the others were protecting and he refused to say literally anything to help the Prosecution, likely because his parents told him that if he did it opens them up to a civil lawsuit. So he was just... useless. And even then, I think they just wanted to establish that Kyle went there on his own accord...? But these two just established it was extremely dangerous out there, which only hurts their case, since it gives more reason for a self-defense claim.

I have no idea what Prosecution is doing, but they look completely miserable and upset. Defense is just winning on every witness. I don't know that the Prosecution just didn't do enough prep or what but this is weird.

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There's a break in the Rittenhouse case. Some thoughts.

They brought another witness from Rittenhouse's crew and the other lawyer for Defense is much better than the one I've seen so far. He was a good witness for Prosecution at first, and then Defense just dismantled the whole testimony on cross and then used him to establish, indirectly, that he had no reason to use his weapon but that Kyle had a lot more reason to use his. It just reaffirmed self-defense for Rosenbaum, at the very least, and his witness testimony for briefly talking to Kyle after the initial shooting didn't help Prosecution a ton.

They brought on a DNA analyst after that, which made no sense and I cannot understand why Prosecution used her as a witness. They didn't translate anything she said to something understandable to the jury. And she never got the gun herself, police did a shoddy job swabbing the gun (didn't swab everything), and her testimony said she couldn't determine the prints on anyone else with a high likelihood. Defense just destroyed this entire testimony pretty much by pointing out the poor job swabbing the gun and then showing actual picture and video evidence of Huber touching the gun, while the analyst said she couldn't determine if he touched the gun through her DNA analysis. Just... baffling. They didn't need to show any DNA to prove anything. Just no reason to bring this witness on at all.

And then they brought on a family member to Huber, and in the middle of the direct, Defense objected because they were trying to use her to do character testimony that was more... I dunno, vague to describe why he attacked Rittenhouse? I'm not as familiar with the rule they're contesting (not in criminal law) but the Prosecution got really shitty with the Judge, which is always an awful look, and the Judge dismissed the jury and went on break immediately. They discussed it and they're waiting on a ruling from the Judge whether or not to include it. Prosecution looks fucking beaten down today.

I'm starting to think Prosecution might not feel as confident in the other two shootings now, because they are making very confusing choices and look miserable. The courtroom is tense, which is also bad. The witness said that Huber was a good boy, so they're pretty assuredly going to ask about him being abusive. I don't know if this witness will help after that, but we'll have to see how it shakes out.

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It lives

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Genuine question, not a devil's advocate: what evidence do they have of Rosenbaum's behavior that night?

The officer yesterday said many people felt uncomfortable around Rosenbaum and reported he was starting shit such as setting things on fire and throwing large rocks.

Balch (the guy who was Kyle's partner for the night), today said Rosenbaum was constantly setting stuff on fire and throwing rubble, people seemed uncomfortable around him, and that Rosenbaum was "hyper aggressive" towards people all night, and that any attempts to try to calm him down were met with more aggression.

And Rosenbaum looked at Kyle's group and said, "If I get any one of you alone, I'm going to fucking kill you."

And then by overhead camera video, and testimony from the officer, Rosenbaum had hidden when he saw Kyle was alone, then purposefully ambushed him.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot more corroboration of Rosenbaum as they have more testimony from people who were on the protestor side of things, but as it stands Rosenbaum agitated and escalated everything. It's pretty clear cut self-defense, imo.

Edit: Oh, and the reporter today provided testimony that Rosenbaum was going after Kyle's gun, despite the Prosecution trying to get him to say he wasn't sure if that was Rosenbaum's intent. But the reporter said he was absolutely certain Rosenbaum went after Kyle's gun.

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It's a jury trial, so it's always up in the air.

I think it's going to depend a lot on the witness testimony, and his own, for the rest of these claims. I'm not willing to hitch my horse either way until I see more.

But I think that they went to attack Rittenhouse after he disengaged the conflict means a great deal, especially if he was already afraid for his life because of Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum literally telling Ritenhouse he'll fucking kill him is an enormous deal. And I think they'll play more towards saying that he was still in fear for his life, depending on the audio that comes out as these people were running up on him.

And if that's the case then they may have overshot too hard with the murder charge rather than homicide. Because it's harder to prove murder in these cases than homicide, in light of a reasonable self-defense here due to Rosenbaum.

Basically, I don't think prosecution expected Rosenbaum to have been quite the insane terror he was that night, nor would did they expect him to outright threaten Kyle and ambush him. It makes things a lot harder for them.

Side note: None of this probably happens if Balch didn't just fuck off and leave Kyle alone, judging by today's testimony. It was pretty clear Rosenbaum was out to hurt someone and wanted to get someone alone.

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Sorry, I'm the one not being clear.

Yes, you're right. Reckless homicide isn't a murder charge in legalese. I thought you were saying he wasn't charged for the Rosenbaum death.

No, it doesn't change the Huber charge at all, but I'm pretty sure they aren't going to get him on either Rosenbaum charges after today. They didn't touch upon the other deaths today.

I don't know what they'll try to argue for the Huber and Grosskreutz charges, and I think that can go either way, honestly. It seems especially dependent on how witness testimony goes, since I probably would've argued that he gets hit with the Rosenbaum charges before today.

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Thank you for @ing me with this. This isn't true though Chris.

Let me line up all the charges:

1st Degree Reckless Homicide - Rosenbaum
Reckless Endangerment - Rosenbaum
1st Degree Intentional Homicide - Huber
Attempted 1st Degree Intentional Homicide - Grosskreutz
Reckless Endangerment - Huber
Possession (Under 18)
Failure to Comply with State Order - Staying out after curfew, very minor


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I've watched only yesterday and today from the trial.

The Prosecution is very good. The Defense is really bad and refuses to make reasonable objections. It's bizarre. The Judge is making more objections than Rittenhouse's lawyer.

Yesterday was awful for the Defense, and the officer that testified made a lot of points in the prosecution's favor. Today, the reporter was pretty neutral for both parties. But Balch's testimony kind of demolished the Prosecution, and he was the Prosecution's witness too. Prosecution tried to discredit him at the end because it was devastating enough.

His testimony established that Rosenbaum was an unhinged crazy person all night and threatened Kyle beforehand that if he saw him alone, he'd fucking kill him. And then when Kyle was alone, he ambushed him. It's honestly the best self-defense argument they could wish for.

I don't know how Prosecution could possibly counter this, but they spent most of the day at least establishing recklessness, but I don't foresee the recklessness charge standing if the murder charge doesn't stand.

I'm speaking purely from a legal standpoint, not a moral standpoint so don't @ me about anything other than the legal standing of things.

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KingButz posted...

Don't look at California

Seriously. The prices are absolutely outrageous here. We're at $4.73 now. We haven't seen $3 in months upon months.

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KommunistKoala posted...

now rank the 10/10s

This may actually be completely impossible.

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