Lurker > Firewerx

Boots.

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Parappa09 posted...

i've moved south of the river and i still pronounce my hs

ts is where i sometimes skip on

I always knew Lewisham would be gentrified sooner or later...!

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Rob Cesternino posted...

Why is it illegal to deny the Holocaust, but not other genocides?

For example, the genocide of the Native Americans?

This is why there's actually a serious debate to be had, with some hard questions, unfairly buried beneath the silliness of a troll topic.

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Bio1590 posted...

But that would mean this topic was actually made in good faith

I know, I probably gave him too easy a ride there. When someone keeps hinting that David Irving is a martyr and they're not too fussy about facts, I should know better.

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IloveJesus posted...

Yes.

Well ... not if you're from Saaf Lunnun. Er, sorry, South London.

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ArchiePeck posted...

TC quite rightfully getting pwned left, right and center here LMAO

Like, if you're going to try and troll at least get your base information right...

If he'd just said, "It's a criminal offence to deny the Holocaust in several countries: discuss the rights and wrongs", he'd have been OK and the topic would have been valid. But instead, he's insisted on fighting this losing battle of trying to prove something erroneous and in the process, he just keeps demonstrating that he doesn't properly research anything.

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Scott_Farkus posted...

The English court found that Irving was an active Holocaust denier, antisemite and racist,[5] who "for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence".[5][6] In addition, the court found that Irving's books had distorted the history of Hitler's role in the Holocaust to depict Hitler in a favourable light.

That was the judgement in the libel trial that Irving brought. The judgement explained why Lipstadt's characterization of Irving was not libellious. It wasn't a judgement in a criminal trial brought against Irving.

Damn, JE19426 got there first!

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Scott_Farkus posted...

Didn't copy right.

Here ya go

https://youtu.be/ApYRnryDQ_s

Oh Jesus, this is hilarious. That's the Oxford Union, the University of Oxford's debating society, and you think it's the Parliament at Westminster?!

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JE19426 posted...

Actually that's the exact same case.

That's just a repeat of the above link. Also I'm not sure what the "UK Congress" refers to. Maybe you mean the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

I can't deny this topic has been an eye-opener. So far I've learned that Austria is in the UK, and us Brits have a Congress.

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Scott_Farkus posted...

Austria isn't in the UK.

Let me save you some time.

Here's another case.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

Oh and here's the UK Congress voting the law into existence:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

Yeah, that's the same case: Irving, who was convicted in a Vienna court for violating Austrian law. Why do you keep waving it around as supposed proof that Holocaust denial is a specific criminal offence in the UK?

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Scott_Farkus posted...

Ok. You win you're petty little argument. Congrats. There are tons of other cases from the UK though.

Which other countries besides Austria do you think are in the UK, though?

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Will you please stop using these ridiculous fingers of speech.

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Scott_Farkus posted...

Try reading the whole article...

"Irving was arrested Nov. 11 in the southern Austrian province of Styria on a warrant issued in 1989. He was charged under a federal law that makes it a crime to publicly diminish, deny or justify the Holocaust."

I did read it. Did you? Or were you just confused by the mention of the libel suit that Irving brought against Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Books, and you imagined that the "federal law" referred to was a UK law instead of the 1992 revision of Austria's 1947 Verbotsgesetz ? I mean, did the fact that Irving was convicted in a Vienna court not tip you off?

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Scott_Farkus posted...

VIENNA, Austria

Yep, you don't get much more British than Austria.

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Scott_Farkus posted...

People have gone to prison for multiple years for it.
Discuss.

Provide us with some examples, and maybe we'll discuss them.

I suggest this because Wikipedia states that "there is no specific crime of Holocaust denial in the UK".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

If you know differently, however...


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Nacen posted...

From England and I've never heard this

I'm from England and I've heard it all my life.

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A group that for the longest time was deliberately excluded, then was distrusted for failing to assimilate, and then was regarded with suspicion for assimilating.

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Don't drink and drive = Pull over and finish the bottle first.

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I feel like I'm having a Hispanic attack.

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We'll all just reach a point where it's safer to assume that trolls aren't merely trolling, because too many actually do believe the dumb dogshit they're spouting.

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For me, obese girls are hotter than a mouthful of Carolina Reaper. But I don't feel even slightly ashamed about it. :-)

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Joseph must have been so pissed off that Jesus' biological father paid no financial support towards his own son's upbringing.

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I think when she's about 12, 13, it's really time for him to stop.

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What's it matter? So long as the shows I like are popular enough to not get cancelled, I'm not tortured by the knowledge that not everyone else happens to like them; I don't measure my enjoyment of them by their viewing figures.

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Worst game of rock paper scissors ever.

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Sounds like what you lack may not be so much a sense of identity as a sense of purpose.

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@SiO4, have you seen They Shall Not Grow Old ?

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MFBKBass5 posted...

surely back in the 1930s/40s, they remembered the BOOM from the economy during WWI.

Yet they completely forgot about the recession of 1920 and 1921 when the global economy fell off a cliff.

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

NEVER QUESTION THE 80's.

Because you're not going to get a sensible answer.

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There'll probably be a few times when she suddenly starts her period when you're right in the middle of things. And, as I did, you'll most likely think, "What the hell... I'm going to finish anyway."

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Pancake posted...

i don't get how you read I'm not your fucking doormat and not link that to someone being combative or confrontational

Be advised: people coming angry into a topic from another topic is a thing.

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Pancake posted...

you actually said that. you are actually that small.

I just don't think other people should take other people for granted or treat them as invisible, and I think that people who do are quite selfish. Yes, I really am actually that small. Crucify me on a miniature cross for it.

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Pancake posted...

it really made me think that you pulled that 'you're welcome!' shit, too. blame me. your attitude is awful.

Reciprocal obligations grease the cogwheels of society, friend. I was brought up to express a word of gratitude for a kindness shown, even a kindness I didn't ask for, and that it was a little everyday test of civility and mutual respect. I appreciate there are other people, like you, who were brought up to think differently.

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Pancake posted...

I'm polite.

does that persist when you don't get what you're expecting?

I'll be truthful: I don't bother to hold the door open again for the same people if they don't need it. If they're carrying something heavy, then sure, I'll hold the door open for them the next time regardless.

But somehow, I sense that's not really the answer you're looking for. I think the telltale clue was you falling over yourself to grasp at the bullshit assumption that I "confronted" people over it. I suspect that in your fevered imagination, you already have this vivid mental picture of me offering to buy drinks for girls I don't know in bars and getting angry when I'm refused. Am I right?

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Pancake posted...

if you can't handle not being thanked for being kind, you're not kind.

I'm polite. I'm not a saint.


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Pancake posted...

nobody owes you anything for doing something they never asked for

It's simple civility to utter a word of acknowledgement for a polite gesture even if it's one you didn't ask for.

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I'm with Pepys Monster on this. If I hold the door open for someone, I don't expect them to just sweep past me with their nose in the air as if I'm some mere lackey who's only giving them their due. I'm being nice, but I'm not your fucking doormat.

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Because deliberate understatement is like street poetry for us Brits.

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Having a glowing blue dick would make it easier to read books under the bedclothes...

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People made up their minds to hate it even before the critics and reviews, though.

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Candidate: "I don't belong to any political party, but there are some other guys active in political life whose ideas, values, viewpoints and policies I find I agree with. We tend to associate with and support each other, and we're reaching out the same kind of voters and represent the same interests." Isn't that all a party is, but with formal membership rules and procedures?

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Mead posted...

as a country that experienced imperial colonialism, wouldnt they be exactly the kind of nation that could criticize such a thing?

I really dont understand what kind of argument youre trying to make

Now I suspect you're being wilfully obtuse.

The country and its territorial borders are rooted in Spanish imperial colonialism. So if the descendants of Spanish colonial settlers in Argentina -- and I have absolutely no idea why you're twisting history back to front to pretend that the settlers, as distinct from the indigenous people, were somehow on the receiving end of colonialism -- want to argue that the British colonies on the Falklands (the original British colony in 1766 pre-dated the Spanish presence there) were not "legitimate" because they were established by British imperialism, then the existence of their own country (which was established by the Spanish imperialism of their own colonial-settler forefathers), and their presence in it, cannot have been "legitimate" either.

Every colonial settler from every European imperial power in the Americas during those centuries hammered a stake into the ground in the name of imperialism. Coming from Argentina, the "British imperialists should never have been in the South Atlantic!" argument is like a robber condemning theft to argue why stolen property is rightfully his.

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Mead posted...

what point are you trying to make

That when your entire country is one of the fruits of (Spanish) imperialism, you don't get to throw up your hands in moral horror about a rival empire-building power in the Americas being 'imperialist'. "What the fuck were those other Europeans doing in the South Atlantic?!"

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The hilarious thing is Argentina denouncing the evils of "British imperialism" over the Falklands. Um, someone please remind me why Argentina is a Spanish-speaking country? Was it because distance learning classes in Spanish proved hugely popular among the indigenous peoples?

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Maybe Trump just feels that genocide has had an unfair press.

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In a way; I have their ashes.

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OctilIery posted...

No, not really. Like I said earlier, experience alone is not a reliable teacher. You need education to go along with it. That isn't to say that someone who has lived with it can't know more than a doctor would, but simply experiencing something does not qualify you to make judgements on it.

To digress a little: you'd be surprised (well, maybe you wouldn't) how many times doctors in general practice have misdiagnosed various conditions that my wife's had because as soon as they've read from her medical records (when they can be bothered to study them, that is) that she has MS, the disease suddenly becomes this convenient peg on which they can immediately hang every diagnosis and dismiss the need for further investigation (unless we've battled for it).

They've sometimes gotten quite snotty when challenged (my wife's intimately familiar with her chronic symptoms and can feel whether or not something quite fits the profile), and assumed a typically arrogant air of superiority -- "I'm a professional, you're just an ignorant piece of meat" -- yet upon further investigation by specialists they've been proven to be wrong.

Patient should educate themselves, but their experience of living with a chronic condition can be valuable too; and in my view the good GP is one who listens to feedback from patients who know their own bodies, instead of just waving their medical diploma in the air as if were unimpeachable proof of their omniscience.

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OctilIery posted...

No, not really.

Having lived with someone who's had multiple sclerosis and Sjgren's syndrome for nearly 20 years of our marriage, I can tell you that yes, really.

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