Lurker > Moth366

Dungeater posted...

yea drizzt stop bullying them

I don't need your help. Appreciate it, though. <3

DrizztLink posted...

the flailing horseshit

I do not mollify people who speak of my behavior in the way you just did.

The OK hand sign argument is dumb. It's unbelievably dumb. It will never stop being dumb.

DrizztLink posted...

So TheLiarParadox told told the truth and described you accurately.

Debatable. People who hate me often describe me in technically correct ways in a framing that fails to capture my intentions or essence. This is why I don't bother refuting those people. It's an argument-in-circles waiting to happen.

It's not difficult for me to be confident in how I see myself when faced with people who frame me in ways I disagree with. None of you know me anywhere near as well as I know myself. How correct about me do you want to be?

mercurydude posted...

If my family were victims of the Nazis, I wouldn't be bending over backwards to defend the most infamous neo-Nazi of our time, but maybe that's just me.

The mindset seems to be that even though Richard Spencer spouts their ideology and wants to kill the same people they killed, he's not as bad because he hasn't actually shed blood yet.

There was a time when Mengele wasn't a murderer but only yearned to be; that didn't make him any less of a monster because we've seen what he did when he finally got the opportunity.

You're making the same mistake several other people have made. I am not defending the man, I am defending his right not to be assaulted. This is a principled position, completely irrespective of the people to whom the principle applies. I don't care how bad he is. If he has not broken the law, then he does not deserve to have violence visited upon him. If you don't like that, your responsibility is to get whatever it is about him you don't like criminalized. Then law enforcement will perform the violence you crave.

The only applications of violence in a just society are the conduction of war and the enforcement of law.

Toonstrack posted...

Why does this topic bear the name of a user that has almost nothing to do with its actual subject matter

She's an innocent bystander on the perennial argument chasers' ongoing drive-by.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I have never, ever defended Ian Watkins, and I never will. I don't recall what, if anything, I said about Gary Glitter. I'll tell you right now that I wouldn't defend him now.

Jesse Lacey, ehh, a bit more debatable, not that I want to have that debate right now. I'm still waiting for the convictions to happen.

Remember when I mentioned serious accusations requiring serious scrutiny? That applies here too.

Oh, it's not that bad, really. This has been most nostalgic. :3

ROBBAN posted...

yeah, i'm gonna stick to my first assessment, that's wierd as hell

You'll get no argument from me there, tbh. It's a modern neologism. >.>

ROBBAN posted...

maybe this is something my "English is my second language"-ness is causing me to miss some context
anyone else wanna chime in?

is "funny haha gesture" a common phrase when talking about nazi salutes?

Well specifically, "the funny-haha ____" is meant to denote a thing that provokes a reaction. The nazi salute is universally provocative.

ROBBAN posted...

no, i just don't understand it
it's just such a wierd term to use to refer to a nazi heil

Well, hopefully I've cleared it up. "funny-haha" is generally not a term meant to be interpreted as "funny." It's like the term "gamer word." No one thinks the n word is just some word gamers use.

RasterGraphic posted...

CE becoming 2015 RI wasn't on my bingo card.

The nostalgia is a big part of what's keeping me here. lmao

Though I like to think my positions are considerably more refined now than before. Any uncertainty I may have felt about Antifa back in 2015 is gone now.

ROBBAN posted...

yeah, so what is funny haha about a heil?

Generally, nothing.

Is this the gotcha you are going to stand on? Is it my irreverence that bothers you about what I said? You might be reading too far into it. I doubt even TLP or BITTER would push so hard on this one.

VeggetaX posted...

There's not gonna be any civil disagreement here. Best move on.

There already was some, though! Some of you have been total gentlemen. <3

I know most of the argument here has been gotcha fishing. I'll probably move on soon, once all the people I'm actually enjoying talking to give up. >.>

ROBBAN posted...

then please enlighten me what "funny haha gesture" is supposed to mean
cause i'm drawing a blank here

Elon's heil.

How are you drawing a blank on something you just said? You are not good at this.

Crimson_Corsair posted...

No, keep everybody talking.

We need more blood for the LUE topic.

*laughs in LUE access*

ROBBAN posted...

did you just call the nazi salute a "funny haha gesture"?
the fuck

you're not exactly helping your case here

That...was not meant to be taken as amelioration of the meaning of the gesture. jfc you're so sensitive

VeggetaX posted...

TC, you aren't going to convince anything to anyone. Everyone here is set in stone in what they believe Including yourself. Best move on.

I haven't been trying to convince anyone of anything. o.o Like, at all. I've just been standing on my position. It's a bunch of people trying to shame me into agreeing with them for the most part. I've even been clear that the viewpoint of someone I disagree with is valid and rational. That wasn't sarcasm.

Oh also, I made smores with a propane torch today. Some of them came out good. ^_^

Dungeater posted...

so like u just keep refreshing this page

It's my weekend, I can do what I want lol.

I'm waiting for friends to get online so I can play Roots of Pacha with them.

Evening_Dragon posted...

What is this topic even

What happens every time I exist in a topic where people who can't leave it be find me.

I could have blocked TLP and BITTER and spriga, but they don't harass me enough to justify it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I don't. I'm just sad that other people opened the floodgates.

Dungeater posted...

did u google "how to respond to ok boomer"

What, in the 9 seconds it took for me to reply to you?

ROBBAN posted...

considering that there are actual fascists, some actively heiling, in power at the moment, antifa is the least of our worries even if your assessment were accurate

I would prefer that their sectarian violence be extirpated entirely from my beloved country. The antifa/nazi whataboutism doesn't phase me. Like I said earlier, I don't mind both sides-ing against two groups I oppose in equal measure.

I don't like Elon either, or the fact that he's in the government, but for different reasons than his ideologies.

And I bet some of you are upset that the reasons we both dislike Elon differ. That is how zealous some of you are. We can be on the same side of a person and you'll still hate me for it.

Dungeater posted...

ok boomer

ok renter

UnholyMudcrab posted...

This is so embarrassing

I am shameless on this. Antifa are bloodthirsty thugs.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Huh? Who?

Toonstrack posted...

I was referring to the post that I responded to. Despite your claim that he's my best friend I have no idea who the dude is. If he said something in another post that I didnt see, I'll cop to being wrong about that.

I don't think you did agree to anything else I said. He's just trying to wedge you. If the one thing you agreed with me is the only thing you agreed with me on, then feel free to stand on your principles.

Will_VIIII posted...

Seems applicable here:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d54783a7.jpg

But I'm not tolerant of antifa. I already am intolerant of the intolerant. Paradoxes can't be usefully applied to anything, lol.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

PR-wing-like behavior is to be disregarded. It's over, antifa. Stop pretending you don't crave violence.

I find that it's when I criticize antifa that people get the most upset. How oddly specific. Not my views on race, or gender, or war. This specific activist group.

Almost like some of you take it personally. Almost like some of you are in the group.

Fortunately for me, activist groups are not protected groups. Being Antifa is a choice. Being a bloodthirsty thug is a choice.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

And I'll say it again years from now.

Antifa are bloodthirsty thugs.

spriga posted...

Whoa just read the past few hours WTF op? Stop that horseshit. Tagged.

I will not stop being for non-violence.

Will_VIIII posted...

I didn't know they had a flag but it was still a projection nonetheless.

Really, no one is being fooled here.

You talk about projection and then immediately speak for everyone. Let's just ignore that I've been talking to everyone individually here.

Please, continue to wonder why I'm not taking you seriously.

I won't even entertain the notion that Antifa makes good points about Nazis. Antifa are a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs. I am proudly against both Nazis and Antifa. All of them can go to hell.

Will_VIIII posted...

This deflection about antifa in a discussion concerning Nazis is another very telling thing.

You're the one who introduced antifa into the topic. Hello? The flag in that flowchart?

Toonstrack posted...

That is a dangerous mindset that will get a lot of actually good people hurt, or worse over nothing. I wouldn't advocate for this approach.

That rationale is the norm for antifa, not the fringe. Never mind that "Should I punch this Nazi" is a loaded question. The starting supposition is flawed. Presenting it in the form of a logic flowchart is just another deception. Completely unrespectable.

Is Richard Spencer a Nazi? Doesn't matter if you think it's obvious. Serious accusations demand serious scrutiny, and any conclusion that justifies violence is implicitly serious. If we don't have inertia on these things, it will lead to violence against the undeserving, regardless of what you consider deserving.

Will_VIIII posted...

Hitting an individual who is openly Nazi is self defense 100% of the time. Identifying as a Nazi is already a call for violence and there should be zero tolerance.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0c758338.jpg
Hope this helps

You know, I'm endlessly amused by the antifa flag's color scheme.

GeraldDarko posted...

I'm LordRazziel.
I kinda just slipped away around when Yukito left. RI was fun, but it just got too slow. Loved the zany days of canti and kuku. Good times.

Oh yeah, I remember that name. @.@ RI really was fun back then. I never hated Canti like so many RIers did, though he had this annoying gymbro phase in 2018 where he was telling me my diet would fail if I didn't follow his advice. My diet did not fail, and I got down to my target weight within a few months and am still there to this day. >.> Kuku chilled the hell out later on, and now he's cool. @.@ Neither of them post much anymore.

Hell, I don't post much anymore, but I still lurk on the daily. RI will never be rid of me. ^_^

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I mean, I could frame all of you as being pro-violence. And then you can qualify it all you want with "I only believe in violence towards scumbags," but that's still pro-violence. Why don't we dispense with the wet framing, huh?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

@.@ What was your name back then? I joined RI in 2003 and never left. I might remember you.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

The moment TLP posted what he posted it was doomed, lol

kind9 posted...

How do you figure that? I always hate when people appeal to human nature. What is sure about human nature is that when we work together we thrive and advance. Why be a self-destructive species?

Hey, I was expressing my belief, not making an appeal. >.> I never expect anyone to adopt my beliefs.

Ironically, I think war is a perfect example of the power of teamwork. The greatest strength of the most powerful military in the world today is not its destructive capability, but it's logistical capability. The US military can get whatever it needs wherever it needs to be, be it aid, bases, people, or bombs, and that takes immense coordinated effort.

As for war being intrinsic to human nature, I see it as a combination of simpler intrinsic properties. The need for space, the need for resources, the tendency towards belief systems(not even religious, just differing.) Given a rising population, competition is inevitable. I wonder if war was the very first form of competition mankind ever had. Sports and elections are direct surrogates for war, but you could make the argument that all non-violent competition is the surrogacy of war.

I don't know if war is counter to human flourishing. I suspect it depends on the motive. Where does a war in which the defender annihilates the aggressor stand on that? The defender's first responsibility is not peace, but survival.

Slaya4 posted...

What happened to this topic...

Yikes...

Blame The Liar Paradox. He came in here being all "are you still deserving of my judgement" like some internet high priest and I was all "...probably."

lol

TetsuoS2 posted...

y give attention

Because whether people like to admit it or not, I am interesting to talk to. :D

kind9 posted...

I'm generally non-violent as well. But I'm not going to act like someone did a horrible thing by punching a Nazi who probably had it coming. It looks like you're pro war, but take a hard stance against punching a Nazi. But war is full of the worst kind of violence and often totally unjustified. Isn't there an inconsistency there in your views?

I believe that war is intrinsic to human nature. How many surrogates for war do we have? Sports, elections, games. I don't like war, but I accept that it exists. Reconciling my values with reality is just part of the human condition.

If you think my views on Richard Spencer are weird, you should hear my views on war. >.> Even I won't pretend they're not extreme.

Will_VIIII posted...

"Small n nazis" is coded language. A dog whistle if you will

*head tilt* ?

Convenient if true, but I thought that up on the spot, I have no idea where you're taking this.

Villain_S_Fiend posted...

I was trying to remember her user name a while back in some topic about the weirdest thing we've seen on the boards or something. I know this topic wasn't for me, but thanks for the reminder anyway.

Oop, just read that last post. Being a Nazi removes your right to not be sucker punched. There is no such thing as a "sucker punch" in a Nazi's life, in fact - a Nazi is always asking for it.

My last reply to kind9 addresses this. @.@ Again, your view is rational but exists in an ideological frame of reference I do not share.

kind9 posted...

As for whether or not he deserved to be punched. I think if a person spends as much time as he does preaching hate against others they are free game. It's not as if he's spreading hate in a vacuum. He is actually talking to and influencing people, and more than likely many of those people have done violence against others because of his influence.

That is a perfectly valid and rational point of view, stemming from an ideological frame of reference I simply do not share. The concept of "free game." I do not believe in free game for violence. I cannot, since non-violence is one of my values. There are no acceptable targets. Ideally, there are only two applications of violence in society: 1) criminals have violence enacted upon them by law enforcement in response to criminal behaviors, and 2) nations enact violence upon other nations in the conduction of war. Now, if you think that Richard Spencer's speech should be criminalized, that's a whole other debate. >.> I'm not interested in talking about free speech.

kind9 posted...

Here's how Richard Spencer is listed on wikipedia:
Richard B. Spencer (born 1978), American neo-Nazi and white supremacist

I do not trust Wikipedia's descriptions of people or social phenomena. Compare Wiki's entries for "white power" and "black power" to see why.

Dungeater posted...

what is this distinction? youd rather argue pedantically than just go yea theyre nazis, their goals are genocide, theyre arresting dissenters, theyre deporting people to camps without due process

gross

Hold on. Who's "they?" And does "they" include Richard Spencer? You've only gotten more vague.

Are you casting everyone you think is Nazis under a singular umbrella? I want to understand what you're saying, but I can only do so much on my end.

Dungeater posted...

going to bat for someone just because he wasnt espousing the most vile views imaginable in that second

...his right not to be sucker-punched? Yes. I value non-violence. You're advocating pre-crime. I am against pre-crime.

Question for you in particular: Are you American?

Dungeater posted...

they're nazis

its nuts u would go "the alt right arent nazis" completely unprompted like that

nephew what are you doing

Small-n nazis, if you will. Look, I hope it's obvious enough that I'm not interested in defending their ideas.

Perhaps too large a scope as well. I'm down to keep this specific to Spencer if you want.

kind9 posted...

If they hold nazi ideals I would say that makes them (neo-)nazis. What I don't understand is why some people take issue with calling them nazis. We're obviously not talking about the German Nazi party. There's also such thing as crypto-nazism, where they clearly hold certain ideals but like to skirt around them.

No. It's not obvious. It's willfully vague. And remember that we're talking about the morality of sucker-punching someone. The further detached from the actual Nazis you get, the less of an argument you have on the grounds of "acceptable targets." Richard Spencer is a clown. He was having an interview. He was mid-sentence about the pin on his jacket. This is not a man deserving of assault. And all the exasperated scoffing in the world won't make it any easier for me to see that.

Dungeater posted...

the...immorality...of punching richard spencer

brutha

Frankly, I resent the equation of clowns like Spencer to the people who industrially slaughtered my family. The "alt-right" are not the Nazis. They're larpers at best.